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Re: William Wilberforce, crook
Date: May 15, 2013 02:52PM
Some sign of progress here. There is at least an implicit acknowledgement that the strictures urged against Vyse apply equally to anyone who entered politics at the time (including Wily Willy Wilberforce).
But you fail to work through the implications of your argument: that Vyse’s behaviour (like that of anyone else standing for Parliament) was shaped by specific circumstances and is therefore a poor predictor of how he might behave under other, completely different circumstances.
But really, there were no check and balances? Of course there were! All of the discoveries were (and were to be in perpetuity) subject to expert scrutiny. Vyse was surrounded by people he’d never met before, people we have no reason to assume were open to (or actively solicited) bribery. He couldn’t just do what he liked and say what he liked, even if he’d been inclined to.
M.
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
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960 |
Dr. Troglodyte
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10-May-13 20:14 |

William Wilberforce, crook
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441 |
Martin Stower
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11-May-13 12:17 |
 
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
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408 |
Nejc
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11-May-13 16:15 |
  
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
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401 |
Merrell
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11-May-13 18:36 |
   
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
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404 |
Scott Creighton
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12-May-13 11:27 |
    
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
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461 |
Merrell
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12-May-13 22:37 |
     
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
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415 |
Scott Creighton
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13-May-13 11:03 |
      
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator
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360 |
Merrell
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13-May-13 13:11 |
       
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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401 |
Scott Creighton
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13-May-13 13:21 |
        
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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419 |
Martin Stower
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13-May-13 16:14 |
         
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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317 |
Scott Creighton
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14-May-13 09:16 |
          
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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376 |
Merrell
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14-May-13 09:41 |
           
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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393 |
Scott Creighton
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14-May-13 09:47 |
            
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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406 |
Martin Stower
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15-May-13 11:18 |
             
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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473 |
Scott Creighton
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15-May-13 12:02 |
              
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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414 |
Martin Stower
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15-May-13 14:26 |
               
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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356 |
Scott Creighton
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15-May-13 15:00 |
                
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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440 |
Martin Stower
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16-May-13 09:55 |
                 
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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381 |
Scott Creighton
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16-May-13 10:04 |
                  
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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373 |
Martin Stower
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16-May-13 10:34 |
                   
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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325 |
Scott Creighton
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16-May-13 10:43 |
                    
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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371 |
Martin Stower
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16-May-13 11:00 |
                     
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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458 |
Scott Creighton
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16-May-13 11:09 |
                      
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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401 |
Martin Stower
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16-May-13 11:31 |
                       
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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369 |
Scott Creighton
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16-May-13 11:36 |
                       
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse,
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370 |
cladking
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16-May-13 15:14 |
                        
Re: What are they so afraid of?
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439 |
Thunderbird
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16-May-13 15:55 |
                         
Re: What are they so afraid of?
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400 |
cladking
|
16-May-13 21:40 |
                       
Calling Dr. Schoch
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451 |
Dr. Troglodyte
|
16-May-13 16:04 |
                        
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch
|
447 |
Scott Creighton
|
16-May-13 16:26 |
                         
Logbook doubts
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383 |
Merrell
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16-May-13 21:38 |
                          
Re: Logbook doubts
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439 |
Scott Creighton
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16-May-13 22:46 |
                           
Re: Logbook doubts
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334 |
Merrell
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16-May-13 23:25 |
                            
Re: Logbook doubts
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395 |
Scott Creighton
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17-May-13 08:00 |
                             
Re: Logbook doubts
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393 |
Merrell
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17-May-13 14:30 |
                              
Re: Logbook doubts
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374 |
Scott Creighton
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17-May-13 14:56 |
                               
Re: Logbook doubts
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391 |
Martin Stower
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17-May-13 16:11 |
                                
Re: Logbook doubts
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376 |
Scott Creighton
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17-May-13 20:53 |
                                 
Re: Logbook doubts
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336 |
MJT
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17-May-13 22:31 |
                                  
Re: Logbook doubts
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419 |
Merrell
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18-May-13 11:23 |
                                   
Re: Logbook doubts
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466 |
Scott Creighton
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18-May-13 12:10 |
                                    
Re: Logbook doubts
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486 |
Martin Stower
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20-May-13 17:54 |
                                     
Re: Logbook doubts
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317 |
Scott Creighton
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21-May-13 00:20 |
                                      
Re: Logbook doubts
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396 |
Morten
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21-May-13 09:03 |
                                       
Re: Logbook doubts
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439 |
Scott Creighton
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21-May-13 10:22 |
                                        
Re: Logbook doubts
|
417 |
Merrell
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21-May-13 10:26 |
                                         
Re: Logbook doubts
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364 |
Scott Creighton
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21-May-13 10:35 |
                                          
Re: Logbook doubts
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385 |
Merrell
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21-May-13 13:46 |
                                        
Re: Logbook doubts
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324 |
Morten
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21-May-13 10:40 |
                                         
Re: Logbook doubts
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411 |
Scott Creighton
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21-May-13 11:04 |
                                          
Re: Logbook doubts
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412 |
Morten
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21-May-13 11:29 |
                                           
Re: Logbook doubts
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429 |
Scott Creighton
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21-May-13 12:04 |
                                            
Re: Logbook doubts
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391 |
Morten
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21-May-13 13:19 |
                                             
Re: Logbook doubts
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451 |
Scott Creighton
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21-May-13 13:33 |
                                              
Re: Logbook doubts
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394 |
Merrell
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21-May-13 14:16 |
                                               
Re: Logbook doubts
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399 |
Scott Creighton
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21-May-13 14:27 |
                                                
Re: Logbook doubts
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434 |
Merrell
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21-May-13 23:48 |
                                              
Re: Logbook doubts
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416 |
Morten
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21-May-13 14:37 |
                                               
Re: Logbook doubts
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397 |
Scott Creighton
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21-May-13 14:54 |
                                                
Re: Logbook doubts
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437 |
Morten
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22-May-13 10:51 |
                                             
Re: Logbook doubts
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459 |
Martin Stower
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21-May-13 17:13 |
                                           
Re: Logbook doubts
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324 |
Audrey
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22-May-13 02:20 |
                                            
Re: Logbook doubts
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403 |
Morten
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22-May-13 08:18 |
                                             
Re: Logbook doubts
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378 |
Martin Stower
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22-May-13 15:02 |
                                              
Re: Logbook doubts
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374 |
Audrey
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24-May-13 01:32 |
                                               
Re: Logbook doubts
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529 |
Martin Stower
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24-May-13 13:43 |
                                             
Re: Logbook doubts
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279 |
Audrey
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24-May-13 01:10 |
                                              
Re: Logbook doubts
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339 |
Scott Creighton
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10-Jun-14 13:15 |
                                               
Re: Logbook doubts
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420 |
eyeofhorus33
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10-Jun-14 18:17 |
                                                
Re: Logbook doubts
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432 |
Scott Creighton
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10-Jun-14 22:01 |
                                                 
Re: Logbook doubts
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375 |
eyeofhorus33
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10-Jun-14 22:15 |
                                               
Re:Khufu....Hyksos?
|
383 |
Thunderbird
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11-Jun-14 01:36 |
                                               
Re: Logbook doubts
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393 |
Audrey
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11-Jun-14 20:47 |
                                                
Re: Logbook doubts
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467 |
eyeofhorus33
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11-Jun-14 22:18 |
                                                 
Re: Logbook doubts
|
419 |
Audrey
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12-Jun-14 21:22 |
                                                  
Re: Logbook doubts
|
356 |
eyeofhorus33
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12-Jun-14 22:20 |
                                                   
Re: Logbook doubts
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356 |
cladking
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13-Jun-14 00:24 |
                                                    
Re: Logbook doubts
|
359 |
eyeofhorus33
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13-Jun-14 22:53 |
                                                     
Re: Logbook doubts
|
357 |
cladking
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13-Jun-14 23:23 |
                                                      
Re: Logbook doubts
|
378 |
eyeofhorus33
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13-Jun-14 23:48 |
                                                       
Re: Logbook doubts
|
367 |
cladking
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14-Jun-14 00:17 |
                                                   
Re: Logbook doubts
|
380 |
Audrey
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14-Jun-14 02:17 |
                                                    
Re: Logbook doubts
|
413 |
eyeofhorus33
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14-Jun-14 11:44 |
                                                     
Re: Logbook doubts
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390 |
cladking
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14-Jun-14 15:25 |
                                                      
context and customs
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346 |
Audrey
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14-Jun-14 19:25 |
                                                       
Re: context and customs
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323 |
cladking
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14-Jun-14 21:23 |
                                                      
Re: Logbook doubts
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399 |
eyeofhorus33
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14-Jun-14 21:29 |
                                                       
Re: Logbook doubts
|
387 |
cladking
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14-Jun-14 22:07 |
                                                        
Re: Logbook doubts
|
391 |
eyeofhorus33
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14-Jun-14 23:04 |
                                                         
Re: Logbook doubts
|
404 |
cladking
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15-Jun-14 00:29 |
                                                          
Re: Logbook doubts
|
397 |
eyeofhorus33
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15-Jun-14 18:35 |
                                                           
Re: Logbook doubts
|
383 |
cladking
|
15-Jun-14 20:56 |
                                                            
Re: Logbook doubts
|
385 |
eyeofhorus33
|
15-Jun-14 21:26 |
                                                             
Language doubts
|
334 |
cladking
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15-Jun-14 21:48 |
                                                              
Re: Language doubts
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355 |
eyeofhorus33
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15-Jun-14 22:05 |
                                                               
Re: Language doubts
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375 |
cladking
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15-Jun-14 22:51 |
                                                                
Re: Language doubts
|
362 |
Audrey
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16-Jun-14 04:17 |
                                                                 
Re: Language doubts
|
414 |
cladking
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16-Jun-14 04:51 |
                                                  
Re: Logbook doubts
|
291 |
cladking
|
12-Jun-14 22:57 |
                                                
Re:doubts
|
376 |
Thunderbird
|
11-Jun-14 23:36 |
                                                 
Re:doubts
|
352 |
Audrey
|
12-Jun-14 19:54 |
                                         
Moderator Notice
|
332 |
Hoppy
|
22-May-13 01:32 |
                                     
Re: Logbook doubts
|
321 |
Audrey
|
22-May-13 02:52 |
                                 
Re: Logbook doubts
|
317 |
Martin Stower
|
18-May-13 13:37 |
                                  
Re: Logbook doubts
|
374 |
Scott Creighton
|
18-May-13 14:01 |
                                   
Re: Logbook doubts
|
359 |
Martin Stower
|
18-May-13 14:52 |
                                    
Re: Logbook doubts
|
347 |
Scott Creighton
|
18-May-13 17:16 |
                                     
Re: Logbook doubts
|
427 |
Martin Stower
|
20-May-13 16:57 |
                                      
Re: Logbook doubts
|
374 |
Scott Creighton
|
20-May-13 17:51 |
                                       
Re: Logbook doubts
|
345 |
Martin Stower
|
20-May-13 18:25 |
                                        
Re: Logbook doubts
|
224 |
Scott Creighton
|
20-May-13 18:49 |
                                         
Re: Logbook doubts
|
392 |
Martin Stower
|
21-May-13 15:42 |
                             
Re: Logbook doubts
|
370 |
HungryHun
|
17-May-13 15:20 |
                              
Re: Conspired....
|
382 |
Thunderbird
|
17-May-13 15:47 |
                               
Re: Conspired....
|
375 |
HungryHun
|
17-May-13 16:04 |
                                
Re: Conspired....
|
352 |
Thunderbird
|
17-May-13 23:17 |
                                 
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money
|
378 |
Ratcho
|
03-Jun-13 05:57 |
                              
Re: Logbook doubts
|
316 |
Martin Stower
|
17-May-13 16:23 |
                               
Re: Logbook doubts
|
378 |
HungryHun
|
17-May-13 16:28 |
                                
Re: Logbook doubts
|
377 |
Thunderbird
|
17-May-13 22:25 |
                              
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
349 |
LonelyAngel
|
29-May-13 14:41 |
                               
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
323 |
Nejc
|
29-May-13 23:23 |
                                
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
346 |
Merrell
|
30-May-13 09:25 |
                               
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
392 |
Martin Stower
|
30-May-13 12:48 |
                                
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
371 |
WINDINWATERS
|
30-May-13 14:40 |
                                 
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
281 |
Martin Stower
|
31-May-13 18:00 |
                                  
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
341 |
WINDINWATERS
|
31-May-13 21:47 |
                                
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
324 |
LonelyAngel
|
30-May-13 17:43 |
                                 
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
330 |
Martin Stower
|
31-May-13 18:24 |
                                  
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
375 |
cladking
|
01-Jun-13 03:28 |
                                   
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
380 |
Merrell
|
01-Jun-13 11:02 |
                                    
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
298 |
LonelyAngel
|
03-Jun-13 20:59 |
                                  
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man?
|
327 |
LonelyAngel
|
03-Jun-13 20:47 |
                             
Re: Logbook doubts
|
514 |
Martin Stower
|
17-May-13 15:51 |
                              
Re: Logbook doubts
|
360 |
Scott Creighton
|
17-May-13 20:27 |
                               
Re: Logbook doubts
|
382 |
Nejc
|
17-May-13 22:28 |
                               
Re: Logbook doubts
|
692 |
Martin Stower
|
18-May-13 14:43 |
                                
Re: Logbook doubts
|
544 |
Scott Creighton
|
18-May-13 17:12 |
                                 
Re: Logbook doubts
|
439 |
Merrell
|
19-May-13 16:43 |
                                  
Re: Logbook doubts
|
370 |
Scott Creighton
|
20-May-13 09:38 |
                                   
Re: Logbook doubts
|
346 |
Merrell
|
20-May-13 13:29 |
                                    
Re: Logbook doubts
|
442 |
Scott Creighton
|
20-May-13 13:58 |
                                     
Re: Logbook doubts
|
338 |
Merrell
|
20-May-13 14:55 |
                                      
Re: Logbook doubts
|
370 |
Scott Creighton
|
20-May-13 18:46 |
                                       
Re: Logbook doubts
|
412 |
HungryHun
|
20-May-13 22:02 |
                                        
Re: Logbook doubts
|
340 |
Thanos5150
|
20-May-13 23:05 |
                                         
Re: Logbook doubts
|
373 |
sfbey
|
20-May-13 23:23 |
                                          
Re: Logbook doubts
|
379 |
Thanos5150
|
20-May-13 23:35 |
                                           
Re: Logbook doubts
|
372 |
sfbey
|
21-May-13 15:41 |
                                            
Moghrah
|
389 |
Merrell
|
21-May-13 18:09 |
                                          
Re: Logbook doubts
|
257 |
Scott Creighton
|
20-May-13 23:38 |
                                           
Re: Logbook doubts
|
298 |
Merrell
|
21-May-13 21:34 |
                                            
Re: Logbook doubts
|
316 |
Audrey
|
22-May-13 02:34 |
                                       
Re: Logbook doubts
|
348 |
Merrell
|
21-May-13 21:58 |
                                        
Re: Logbook doubts
|
366 |
Sirfiroth
|
22-May-13 10:42 |
                                         
Re: Logbook doubts
|
329 |
Merrell
|
22-May-13 11:43 |
                                          
Re: Logbook doubts
|
301 |
Sirfiroth
|
22-May-13 17:44 |
                                           
Re: Logbook doubts
|
250 |
Nejc
|
22-May-13 23:18 |
                                            
Re: Logbook doubts
|
240 |
cladking
|
23-May-13 00:51 |
                                            
Re: Logbook doubts
|
238 |
Merrell
|
23-May-13 08:41 |
                                 
Re: Logbook doubts
|
281 |
Martin Stower
|
20-May-13 19:19 |
                                  
Re: Logbook doubts
|
175 |
Scott Creighton
|
20-May-13 19:35 |
                                   
Re: Logbook doubts
|
325 |
Martin Stower
|
21-May-13 17:59 |
                                    
Moderator Warning
|
367 |
JonnyMcA
|
21-May-13 20:12 |
                                   
Moderator Warning
|
294 |
JonnyMcA
|
21-May-13 20:11 |
                                  
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources
|
281 |
Thunderbird
|
20-May-13 19:36 |
                                  
Re: Logbook doubts
|
307 |
Audrey
|
22-May-13 02:50 |
                                   
Re: Logbook doubts
|
261 |
Merrell
|
22-May-13 12:53 |
                                    
Re: Logbook doubts
|
240 |
Audrey
|
24-May-13 01:48 |
                                   
Moderator Caution
|
192 |
Hoppy
|
22-May-13 12:55 |
                                   
Re: Logbook doubts
|
150 |
Martin Stower
|
22-May-13 16:06 |
                                    
Re: Logbook doubts
|
148 |
Audrey
|
24-May-13 01:41 |
                                     
Re: Logbook doubts
|
162 |
Martin Stower
|
24-May-13 13:56 |
                              
Re: Logbook doubts
|
138 |
Thunderbird
|
17-May-13 22:40 |
                        
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch
|
212 |
Thanos5150
|
16-May-13 19:41 |
                         
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch
|
187 |
Dr. Troglodyte
|
16-May-13 21:56 |
                          
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch
|
173 |
Thanos5150
|
16-May-13 23:11 |
                           
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch
|
157 |
Dr. Troglodyte
|
17-May-13 00:01 |
                            
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch
|
198 |
Thanos5150
|
17-May-13 00:30 |
                        
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch
|
157 |
cladking
|
16-May-13 21:50 |
             
Moderator Caution
|
181 |
Hoppy
|
15-May-13 14:09 |
      
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
|
137 |
Martin Stower
|
13-May-13 16:53 |
       
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
|
163 |
Scott Creighton
|
13-May-13 17:40 |
        
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
|
136 |
Martin Stower
|
13-May-13 18:32 |
         
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
|
98 |
Scott Creighton
|
13-May-13 19:23 |
          
Moderator Caution #2
|
84 |
Hoppy
|
15-May-13 14:18 |
          
Re: William Wilberforce, crook
|
116 |
Martin Stower
|
15-May-13 14:52 |

Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
140 |
Nejc
|
11-May-13 13:47 |
 
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
146 |
JonnyMcA
|
11-May-13 18:41 |

Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
147 |
Audrey
|
12-May-13 07:59 |
 
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
135 |
JonnyMcA
|
12-May-13 09:58 |
 
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
181 |
HungryHun
|
12-May-13 13:00 |

Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
129 |
HungryHun
|
13-May-13 12:46 |
 
Re: Caviglia's complaint....
|
122 |
Thunderbird
|
13-May-13 16:20 |

Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
125 |
HungryHun
|
13-May-13 19:36 |
 
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
118 |
Martin Stower
|
15-May-13 15:04 |
  
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
131 |
HungryHun
|
16-May-13 10:03 |
   
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
120 |
Martin Stower
|
16-May-13 10:47 |
    
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
107 |
Merrell
|
16-May-13 16:33 |
     
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
132 |
Martin Stower
|
18-May-13 15:02 |

Re: If fake, then... what?
|
145 |
MJT
|
16-May-13 12:45 |

More Vyse wickedness
|
148 |
Martin Stower
|
18-May-13 15:14 |
 
Re: More Vyse wickedness
|
186 |
Scott Creighton
|
19-May-13 09:01 |
  
Re: More Vyse wickedness
|
217 |
Martin Stower
|
20-May-13 16:44 |
   
Re: More Vyse wickedness
|
233 |
Scott Creighton
|
20-May-13 17:56 |
    
Re: More Vyse wickedness
|
257 |
jamesglory
|
21-May-13 10:26 |
     
Re: More Vyse wickedness
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239 |
Audrey
|
22-May-13 02:42 |
   
Moderator Caution
|
152 |
Hoppy
|
20-May-13 17:57 |

Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
167 |
Audrey
|
14-Jun-14 21:11 |
 
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
132 |
cladking
|
14-Jun-14 21:49 |
 
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
146 |
Scott Creighton
|
15-Jun-14 00:13 |
 
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
171 |
eyeofhorus33
|
15-Jun-14 00:58 |
  
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
138 |
cladking
|
15-Jun-14 01:12 |
   
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
134 |
Sirfiroth
|
15-Jun-14 19:09 |
    
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
168 |
cladking
|
15-Jun-14 20:40 |
  
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
152 |
Audrey
|
16-Jun-14 03:32 |
   
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
217 |
eyeofhorus33
|
16-Jun-14 18:38 |
    
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse
|
153 |
Audrey
|
23-Jun-14 03:15 |
 
Australian Funeral
|
184 |
molder
|
15-Jun-14 05:03 |
  
Re: Australian Funeral
|
300 |
Audrey
|
16-Jun-14 03:56 |
   
Re: Australian Funeral
|
124 |
molder
|
16-Jun-14 12:06 |
    
Re: Australian Funeral
|
141 |
cladking
|
16-Jun-14 16:50 |
     
Re: Australian Funeral
|
108 |
Audrey
|
23-Jun-14 01:58 |
  
Re: Australian Funeral
|
147 |
molder
|
19-Jun-14 07:25 |
   
Re: Australian Funeral
|
132 |
molder
|
20-Jun-14 10:28 |
    
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral
|
114 |
molder
|
22-Jun-14 06:53 |