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Scott Creighton wrote:

> SC: Brewer's word/testimony as passed down by his family. There
> - better?

No, it’s not better. It’s supposition that the story was passed down accurately or passed down at all.

> SC: Stop making things up.

Creighton,

I have already dropped the heaviest of hints that I am not restricted on this question to material already in the public domain and I have already told you how out of your depth you are on this issue. I suggest you take the hint and be told.

In a letter dated 26 June 1981, Allen gave a summary of Humphries Brewer’s career, including the claim that Brewer had worked for Vyse. Guess what he didn’t mention? That’s right! He didn’t mention forgery.

Not until a letter dated 4 August 1983 (which explicitly mentions Sitchin) did the forgery claim turn up.

Work it out.

> The claims (based on a long-standing
> family oral tradition) were put down in written form by Walter
> Allen in 1954 - LONG BEFORE Sitchin ever came on the scene.

Creighton,

I could write ‘1954’ now. It wouldn’t mean it was written in 1954.

Funny how selective your are with your suspicions.

That Allen’s notes were written in 1954 is unproven supposition.

> Allen may not have made the claims of his great grandfather
> (Brewer) public before reading Sitchin but the claims of his
> great grandfather WERE there.

Supposition. See above.

> Stop telling porkies.

Oh. Really. I’m telling lies, am I?

This being your notion of improving the tone, evidently.

> SC: And you entirely miss the point. There is no reason for
> this charge to have been written down by the Allen family in
> 1954 - none. [. . .]

That it was written down in 1954 is supposition. See above.

> SC: Certainly no letters from Brewer's family have been
> produced. Does that make Brewer's testimony (passed down to
> Allen) a lie? [. . .]

That “Brewer’s testimony” was passed down to Allen is supposition. See above.

Why did Allen not mention this tradition when he told a contact in this country all about Humphries Brewer’s supposed involvement with Vyse? Why did this aspect of the story emerge only after Allen had read a summary of Sitchin’s claims?

> SC: "Goaded into checking"? Pardon me while I roll about
> laughing at the man who has spent several decades being goaded
> with this debate.

Don’t hurt yourself.

Yes, you relied entirely on the known liar Sitchin, until you were goaded in doing what a competent researcher would have done in the first place.

> Let me remind you that the Brewer/Allen claim has NOTHING to do
> with Sitchin. The Brewer/Allen claim existed (albeit unknown)
> LONG BEFORE Sitchin ever got to know about it or became
> involved with it--as you well know. [. . .]

No, Creighton, I don’t know this. Neither do you. Neither does anyone. It’s SUPPOSITION.

(I use caps in deference to your belief that it improves understanding.)

> SC: "Misdirection" my bahookie! That's the bottom line Stower.
> Brewer's word against Trcicky Dicky's. Might as well get used
> to it, dear boy.

Creighton,

Do try to understand.

You don’t have Brewer’s word.

M.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1051 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 489 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 457 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 461 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 460 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 538 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 495 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 408 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 457 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 470 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 367 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 440 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 452 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 457 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 545 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 463 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 405 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 505 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 445 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 438 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 383 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 444 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 516 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 453 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 419 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 418 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 500 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 450 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 517 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 523 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 433 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 493 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 389 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 448 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 393 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 484 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 533 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 554 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 492 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 378 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 468 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 489 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 532 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 484 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 482 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 511 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 385 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 609 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 344 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 487 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 479 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 425 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 450 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 526 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 475 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 417 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 422 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 406 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 406 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 421 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 415 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 442 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 475 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 437 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 388 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 372 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 453 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 432 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 422 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 448 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 454 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 428 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 434 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 396 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 400 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 416 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 415 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 463 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 332 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 434 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 399 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 386 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 381 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 361 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 425 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 403 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 489 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 269 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 414 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 430 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 419 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 392 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 424 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 358 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 424 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 401 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 371 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 392 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 442 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 429 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 326 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 385 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 373 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 373 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 432 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 420 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 358 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 373 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 579 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 797 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 655 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 487 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 425 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 458 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 434 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 429 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 429 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 441 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 320 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 349 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 396 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 352 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 300 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 297 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 302 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 333 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 246 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 442 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 359 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 329 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 367 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 315 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 290 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 238 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 208 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 208 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 208 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 184 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 270 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 237 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 226 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 207 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 246 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 212 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 264 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 180 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 217 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 212 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 145 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 137 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 167 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 202 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 192 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 198 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 229 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 172 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 185 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 178 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 173 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 174 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 155 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 179 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 209 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 193 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 257 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 263 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 285 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 321 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 297 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 230 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 215 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 193 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 214 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 182 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 184 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 214 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 205 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 286 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 199 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 235 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 346 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 174 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 186 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 159 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 211 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 180 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 163 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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