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Scott Creighton wrote:

> SC: Brewer's word/testimony as passed down by his family. There
> - better?

No, it’s not better. It’s supposition that the story was passed down accurately or passed down at all.

> SC: Stop making things up.

Creighton,

I have already dropped the heaviest of hints that I am not restricted on this question to material already in the public domain and I have already told you how out of your depth you are on this issue. I suggest you take the hint and be told.

In a letter dated 26 June 1981, Allen gave a summary of Humphries Brewer’s career, including the claim that Brewer had worked for Vyse. Guess what he didn’t mention? That’s right! He didn’t mention forgery.

Not until a letter dated 4 August 1983 (which explicitly mentions Sitchin) did the forgery claim turn up.

Work it out.

> The claims (based on a long-standing
> family oral tradition) were put down in written form by Walter
> Allen in 1954 - LONG BEFORE Sitchin ever came on the scene.

Creighton,

I could write ‘1954’ now. It wouldn’t mean it was written in 1954.

Funny how selective your are with your suspicions.

That Allen’s notes were written in 1954 is unproven supposition.

> Allen may not have made the claims of his great grandfather
> (Brewer) public before reading Sitchin but the claims of his
> great grandfather WERE there.

Supposition. See above.

> Stop telling porkies.

Oh. Really. I’m telling lies, am I?

This being your notion of improving the tone, evidently.

> SC: And you entirely miss the point. There is no reason for
> this charge to have been written down by the Allen family in
> 1954 - none. [. . .]

That it was written down in 1954 is supposition. See above.

> SC: Certainly no letters from Brewer's family have been
> produced. Does that make Brewer's testimony (passed down to
> Allen) a lie? [. . .]

That “Brewer’s testimony” was passed down to Allen is supposition. See above.

Why did Allen not mention this tradition when he told a contact in this country all about Humphries Brewer’s supposed involvement with Vyse? Why did this aspect of the story emerge only after Allen had read a summary of Sitchin’s claims?

> SC: "Goaded into checking"? Pardon me while I roll about
> laughing at the man who has spent several decades being goaded
> with this debate.

Don’t hurt yourself.

Yes, you relied entirely on the known liar Sitchin, until you were goaded in doing what a competent researcher would have done in the first place.

> Let me remind you that the Brewer/Allen claim has NOTHING to do
> with Sitchin. The Brewer/Allen claim existed (albeit unknown)
> LONG BEFORE Sitchin ever got to know about it or became
> involved with it--as you well know. [. . .]

No, Creighton, I don’t know this. Neither do you. Neither does anyone. It’s SUPPOSITION.

(I use caps in deference to your belief that it improves understanding.)

> SC: "Misdirection" my bahookie! That's the bottom line Stower.
> Brewer's word against Trcicky Dicky's. Might as well get used
> to it, dear boy.

Creighton,

Do try to understand.

You don’t have Brewer’s word.

M.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 959 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 441 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 408 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 401 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 404 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 461 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 415 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 360 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 400 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 418 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 317 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 376 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 393 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 406 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 473 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 413 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 356 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 440 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 381 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 373 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 325 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 371 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 401 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 369 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 370 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 439 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 399 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 450 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 447 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 383 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 334 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 374 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 336 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 317 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 396 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 385 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 324 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 411 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 412 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 429 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 324 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 403 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 378 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 374 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 279 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 339 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 420 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 432 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 375 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 383 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 467 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 356 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 356 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 359 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 357 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 378 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 367 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 380 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 413 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 390 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 346 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 322 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 399 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 386 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 391 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 404 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 397 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 383 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 385 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 334 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 355 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 375 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 362 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 414 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 291 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 375 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 352 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 332 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 321 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 317 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 374 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 358 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 347 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 374 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 224 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 370 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 382 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 375 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 352 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 378 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 316 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 378 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 349 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 323 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 345 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 392 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 371 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 281 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 341 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 323 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 330 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 374 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 380 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 298 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 327 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 514 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 360 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 381 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 692 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 542 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 370 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 346 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 441 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 370 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 412 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 340 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 373 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 379 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 372 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 389 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 257 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 298 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 316 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 347 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 329 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 301 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 250 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 240 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 238 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 281 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 175 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 324 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 367 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 294 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 281 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 307 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 261 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 240 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 192 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 150 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 148 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 162 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 138 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 212 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 187 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 173 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 157 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 198 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 157 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 181 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 137 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 163 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 135 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 98 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 84 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 116 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 140 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 145 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 147 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 135 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 181 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 129 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 122 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 125 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 118 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 131 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 120 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 107 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 132 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 145 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 148 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 185 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 217 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 233 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 257 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 239 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 152 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 132 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 146 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 170 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 138 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 134 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 168 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 152 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 217 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 153 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 184 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 300 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 124 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 141 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 108 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 146 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 132 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 114 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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