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Diomede wrote:

> Hi Nolondil,
>
> > "You continue to make unsupported and unsupportable
> assertions. This is the problem with the Velikovsky method.
> Science isn't done by by Jedi Mind Trick.
>
> Sure I do,
>
> Fair criticism.
>
> Why?
>
> In short:
>
> Dissent!
>
> Surely and equally in support of your comments..."Science"
> itself IS also done and ruled by the the same 'Jedi Mind Trick'
> as you say, but these days cunningly disguised in different
> guises, forms, attires and various other disturbingly
> convincing attributes.
>
> "Science" is now currently and respectably "accepted" as truth
> (or at least, not far from it), particularly amongst those in
> high places, which is to say the scientific hierarchy and their
> numerous mentors...obedient servants if you will...the
> religious equivalent of Cardinals, Bishops, Priests etc who are
> the guiding pillars of "knowledge" and Society etc and whom
> actually rule the roost...and we are supposed to blindly follow
> them!!?
>

No, you are not expected to 'blindly' follow them, you are expected to examine the data yourself and follow certain methods of reasoning about it. Most people don't bother, of course. Few even read the popular news releases, let alone the actual papers. But they are available if you are interested. We are not handed scientific truth from 'on high' (well, except in school where everything is handed down from 'on high' simply because we are expected to reach a certain threshold of shared knowledge to become citizens) -- we are given plenty of information about the experiment, the actual data (where other things like privacy concerns don't prevent it) and the actual reasoning that produces the conclusion.

Certainly science can have undesirable and outright deleterious consequences for society at large. "Social Darwinism" is a good example of this. Darwin could never have guessed that his principle of 'natural selection' in the natural world could and would be twisted into justification of brutal classist and racist social policies against humans. But the basic 'tools' were developed by and for scientific thinking, and then were applied in an unexpected way. Similar abuses have occurred with Freud's psychology, and Marshal McLuhan even pointed out how communications technology was changing the way we viewed the world regardless of what was being transmitted. "The Medium is the message." The law of unintended consequences holds everywhere.

But I'm afraid I don't understand how promoting chaff like Velikovsky's personal mythology as an 'alternative' to contemporary science improves anyone else's freedom of thought. The only thing consistent I have found about his writings is that they always uphold Biblical miracles by any means necessary. The plagues of Exodus, manna falling from heaven to feed the Israelites, the 'sun standing still' over the battle of Gibeon (Joshua 12-15), etc. These are the things he's trying to explain and re-establish credibility for. Velikovsky was a Zionist and never tried to disguise that -- though it's not as if he could have! :) -- and he was trying to justify the state of Israel by returning credibility to Biblical miracles and prophecy. Does reinforcing the old totalitarianism help anyone resist the new totalitarianism? I don't think so.

There is plenty of notice taken of both the accidental ill effects and the deliberate misuse of science by modern thinkers both inside and outside the formal 'academic' world. It is possible to recognize the problems brought on by over-extending materialist thinking while still appreciating what it is really good for. Searching on the terms 'scientific materialism' or 'scientific realism' or even simply 'naturalism' will produce loads of interesting articles, many with with links to further resources. Wikipedia is a reasonable place to start:

[en.wikipedia.org]

But there are some radicals out there even in the 'establishment'. Paul Feyerabend argued against science in some quite extreme ways over his career.

[cyclewalabanda.blogspot.com]
How to defend Society against Science by PK Feyerabend

...
I want to defend society and its inhabitants from all ideologies, science included. All ideologies must be seen in perspective. One must not take them too seriously. One must read them like fairy-tales which have lots of interesting things to say but which also contain wicked lies, or like ethical prescriptions which may be useful rules of thumb but which are deadly when followed to the letter.
...

> If in my most learned career I had a choice, then the works of
> Velikovsky et al (which I began reading in the early 1970's)
> speaks far much more sense to me (and we are only talking about
> the solar system here, never mind the Universe and beyond etc)
> than conventional science/astronomy purports...with all its
> black holes, dark matter, dark energy, mirror matter, parallel
> universes etc, etc almost ad infinitum.
>
> C'mon:
>
> As Oliver Hardy said many times to Stan Laurel in times past:
>
> "Why don't you do something to help me"?
>
> Joking aside and as you well know, there are so many unanswered
> questions which need to be addressed, particularly those of
> Venus, the Earth and the other planets too.
>

And promoting mythology over well-established science helps to answer those questions in what way? If you're going to invent a mythology for yourself, or adopt someone else's, that's fine. Mythology has a place in human thought. Just don't claim it is 'alternative science'.

> Any measure of what so-called "science/astronomy" these days
> apparently suggests to be, in order no doubt to suit the
> out-dated "conjecture" (in my view) as to how our solar system
> actually formed ie the 'Nebular Theory', is also being
> continually updated to suit the "status quo" of mainstream
> conventionalism ie once again to support the out-dated Nebular
> Theory.
>

Out-dated? Lack of proof is not refutation. Is the Nebular theory refuted? Or just not proven? If some sort of solid evidence turns up for a different theory I'm sure scientists will be very interested. The chance to be the 'discoverer' of something new, get a lot of research grants and maybe get your name in the history books is a pretty strong motivation to seek out new ideas in science.

Planetary billiards is not an alternative theory. It violates the most basic known laws of physics, like conservation of momentum.

> Overall, all I am saying to you very briefly, is that in my
> research at least, Venus bears all the hallmarks of being a
> very recent addition to our family of planets.
>

Research in what, though? Are you following the Velikovsky path of piecing together bits of mythology and then claiming it is scientifically valid? If you can provide a coherent re-interpretation of actual scientific data, that's one thing. If you're just going to assert clear impossibilities based on selected fragments of mythologies you're wasting everyone's time.



--
Like ancient Rome, we today are once more importing every form of exotic superstition in the hope of finding the right remedy for our sickness.
-- C. G. Jung
Richard Wilhelm: In Memoriam (1930), CW 15: pg. 60

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Subject Views Written By Posted
A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 599 Laird Scranton 22-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 legionromanes 22-Jun-08 19:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 178 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 01:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 206 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 03:54
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 175 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 167 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 176 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 carolb 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 21:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 21:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 180 Diomede 25-Nov-08 21:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 JonnyMcA 25-Nov-08 21:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 208 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 192 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 17:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 18:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 20:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 20:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 Gary Gilligan 26-Nov-08 21:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 21:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 150 Diomede 29-Nov-08 23:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 168 JonnyMcA 29-Nov-08 23:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 Diomede 30-Nov-08 21:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 Diomede 30-Nov-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 154 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 10:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 Diomede 01-Dec-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 156 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 22:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Voyager 26-Nov-08 17:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 198 Diomede 27-Nov-08 21:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 157 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 21:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 150 Diomede 06-Dec-08 16:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 178 Nolondil 06-Dec-08 20:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 173 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 178 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 Voyager 08-Dec-08 02:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 Diomede 09-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 Nolondil 09-Dec-08 01:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 192 Susan Doris 09-Dec-08 07:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Diomede 12-Dec-08 12:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 Susan Doris 12-Dec-08 14:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 Susan Doris 28-Nov-08 07:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 188 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 08:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 Voyager 27-Nov-08 02:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 168 NetWorkAngel 27-Nov-08 15:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 15:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 legionromanes 28-Nov-08 15:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 Diomede 01-Dec-08 21:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 legionromanes 01-Dec-08 21:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 16:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 JonnyMcA 02-Dec-08 17:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 167 Susan Doris 02-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 19:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 20:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 NetWorkAngel 02-Dec-08 20:43
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 Diomede 03-Dec-08 01:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 168 Diomede 02-Dec-08 23:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 195 Voyager 03-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 15:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 degiem1 04-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 Laird Scranton 04-Dec-08 23:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 146 Voyager 05-Dec-08 00:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 Diomede 05-Dec-08 21:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 135 Voyager 05-Dec-08 23:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 148 Susan Doris 06-Dec-08 07:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 142 Diomede 06-Dec-08 20:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 133 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 degiem1 05-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 00:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 degiem1 05-Dec-08 01:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 02:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 150 degiem1 05-Dec-08 19:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 137 Voyager 05-Dec-08 03:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 135 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 145 Diomede 06-Dec-08 22:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 124 legionromanes 05-Dec-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 125 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 21:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 131 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 135 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 127 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 143 ariston 06-Dec-08 00:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 114 ariston 05-Dec-08 23:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 154 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 19:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 150 Diomede 07-Dec-08 02:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 legionromanes 07-Dec-08 14:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 126 Voyager 07-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 140 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 141 legionromanes 08-Dec-08 08:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 ariston 01-Dec-08 22:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:51
The "Worzel Ash" (Los Chocoyos Volcanic Ash) 544 Xebec 26-Jun-08 03:47
What does this mean? 185 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 06:19
Re: What does this mean? 139 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 14:53
Re: What does this mean? 165 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 16:59
Re: What does this mean? 131 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:23
Re: What does this mean? 178 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 17:55
Re: What does this mean? 164 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 18:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 mephisto 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 139 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 156 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 145 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 142 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 176 Houcad 23-Jun-08 04:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 136 Nolondil 24-Jun-08 03:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:37
What little I understand 157 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 09:48
Re: What little I understand 166 mephisto 24-Jun-08 14:03
Re: What little I understand 164 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:45
Re: What little I understand 140 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 17:29
Re: What little I understand 166 drrayeye 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: What little I understand 149 Elizabeth Newton 25-Jun-08 05:00
Nice Comment 144 Ghia 25-Jun-08 13:38
Re: What little I understand 135 Susan Doris 25-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 140 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 143 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 10:28
Laird does not believe Velikovsky is correct 135 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 12:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 149 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 161 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 13:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 132 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 16:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 16:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 175 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 16:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 170 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 17:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 17:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 175 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 180 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 17:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 148 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 17:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 138 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 130 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 18:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 19:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 134 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:40
Laird Scranton 196 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 19:11
Re: Laird Scranton 160 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:41
Moderator Note: 142 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 22:11
Re: Moderator Note: 161 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:35
Re: Moderator Note:Moderator response 144 Ghia 24-Jun-08 23:00
Re: Moderator Note: 124 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 142 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 21:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 167 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 22:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 22:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 138 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 149 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 156 Drewski 23-Jun-08 23:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 145 Cognito 24-Jun-08 04:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:37
Possibility of venus as a comet. 156 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 13:22
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 147 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 14:18
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 167 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 14:44
Water telescope 174 Ghia 24-Jun-08 17:46
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 191 Johnee 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 189 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 16:05
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 166 Johnee 24-Jun-08 16:44
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 140 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 17:15
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 166 Johnee 24-Jun-08 19:13
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 155 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 180 Johnee 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 177 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 08:53
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 Cognito 24-Jun-08 18:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 173 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 18:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 145 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 129 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 134 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 135 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:08
Mod Note 163 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:11
Re: Mod Note 148 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:14
Re: Mod Note 170 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:20
Re: Mod Note 138 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:08
Re: Mod Note 142 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 132 Cognito 24-Jun-08 21:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 139 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 159 Cognito 24-Jun-08 23:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 Cognito 25-Jun-08 03:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 138 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 154 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 04:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 136 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 14:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 121 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 19:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 184 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 176 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 141 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 03:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 131 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 142 mephisto 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 167 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 15:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 167 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 16:35
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 Cognito 26-Jun-08 22:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:26
Moderator Note 180 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 01:52
Re: Moderator Note 167 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:36
Re: Moderator Note 129 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 22:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 20:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 133 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 127 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 156 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 138 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 93 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 112 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 135 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 128 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 08:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 150 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 133 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:39
Venus see--Venus do 171 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 08:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 177 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 146 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:37
Re: Venus see--Venus do 145 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:41
Re: Venus see--Venus do 143 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: Venus see--Venus do 157 NetWorkAngel 26-Jun-08 16:45
Re: Venus see--Venus do 133 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:54
Re: Venus see--Venus do 150 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 13:15
Re: Venus see--Venus do 170 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 18:07
Re: Venus see--Venus do 153 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 21:06
Re: Venus see--Venus do 138 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 21:38
Re: Venus see--Venus do 152 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:33
Re: Venus see--Venus do 147 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:16
Re: Venus see--Venus do 131 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:26
Re: Venus see--Venus do 117 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:28
Re: Venus see--Venus do 143 JonnyMcA 27-Jun-08 07:55
Re: Venus see--Venus do 122 Me 27-Jun-08 02:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 123 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 116 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 118 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 14:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 157 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 15:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 141 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 18:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 131 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 157 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 142 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 104 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 102 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 14:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 96 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 15:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 115 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 15:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 87 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 134 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 123 The Kwuda 24-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 99 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 134 Me 25-Jun-08 02:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 122 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 144 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 133 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 12:38
Moderator Note 100 Hoppy 26-Jun-08 00:52
Re: Moderator Note 129 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 08:12
Re: Moderator Note 137 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 99 Hoppy 27-Jun-08 00:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 130 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:05
Laird, have you seen this? 122 mephisto 26-Jun-08 15:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 139 mephisto 26-Jun-08 16:02
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 119 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:24
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 125 mephisto 27-Jun-08 01:53
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 138 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 126 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:47
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 133 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:18
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 133 mephisto 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 139 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:14
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 118 mephisto 27-Jun-08 03:38
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 139 mephisto 27-Jun-08 05:46
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 135 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 98 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 107 Joe Atlantis 28-Nov-08 05:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 104 Diomede 28-Nov-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 139 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 13:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 130 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 143 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 23:33
Thread Closed 102 JonnyMcA 12-Dec-08 23:50


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