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Diomede wrote:

> Hi Nolondil,
>
> > "You continue to make unsupported and unsupportable
> assertions. This is the problem with the Velikovsky method.
> Science isn't done by by Jedi Mind Trick.
>
> Sure I do,
>
> Fair criticism.
>
> Why?
>
> In short:
>
> Dissent!
>
> Surely and equally in support of your comments..."Science"
> itself IS also done and ruled by the the same 'Jedi Mind Trick'
> as you say, but these days cunningly disguised in different
> guises, forms, attires and various other disturbingly
> convincing attributes.
>
> "Science" is now currently and respectably "accepted" as truth
> (or at least, not far from it), particularly amongst those in
> high places, which is to say the scientific hierarchy and their
> numerous mentors...obedient servants if you will...the
> religious equivalent of Cardinals, Bishops, Priests etc who are
> the guiding pillars of "knowledge" and Society etc and whom
> actually rule the roost...and we are supposed to blindly follow
> them!!?
>

No, you are not expected to 'blindly' follow them, you are expected to examine the data yourself and follow certain methods of reasoning about it. Most people don't bother, of course. Few even read the popular news releases, let alone the actual papers. But they are available if you are interested. We are not handed scientific truth from 'on high' (well, except in school where everything is handed down from 'on high' simply because we are expected to reach a certain threshold of shared knowledge to become citizens) -- we are given plenty of information about the experiment, the actual data (where other things like privacy concerns don't prevent it) and the actual reasoning that produces the conclusion.

Certainly science can have undesirable and outright deleterious consequences for society at large. "Social Darwinism" is a good example of this. Darwin could never have guessed that his principle of 'natural selection' in the natural world could and would be twisted into justification of brutal classist and racist social policies against humans. But the basic 'tools' were developed by and for scientific thinking, and then were applied in an unexpected way. Similar abuses have occurred with Freud's psychology, and Marshal McLuhan even pointed out how communications technology was changing the way we viewed the world regardless of what was being transmitted. "The Medium is the message." The law of unintended consequences holds everywhere.

But I'm afraid I don't understand how promoting chaff like Velikovsky's personal mythology as an 'alternative' to contemporary science improves anyone else's freedom of thought. The only thing consistent I have found about his writings is that they always uphold Biblical miracles by any means necessary. The plagues of Exodus, manna falling from heaven to feed the Israelites, the 'sun standing still' over the battle of Gibeon (Joshua 12-15), etc. These are the things he's trying to explain and re-establish credibility for. Velikovsky was a Zionist and never tried to disguise that -- though it's not as if he could have! :) -- and he was trying to justify the state of Israel by returning credibility to Biblical miracles and prophecy. Does reinforcing the old totalitarianism help anyone resist the new totalitarianism? I don't think so.

There is plenty of notice taken of both the accidental ill effects and the deliberate misuse of science by modern thinkers both inside and outside the formal 'academic' world. It is possible to recognize the problems brought on by over-extending materialist thinking while still appreciating what it is really good for. Searching on the terms 'scientific materialism' or 'scientific realism' or even simply 'naturalism' will produce loads of interesting articles, many with with links to further resources. Wikipedia is a reasonable place to start:

[en.wikipedia.org]

But there are some radicals out there even in the 'establishment'. Paul Feyerabend argued against science in some quite extreme ways over his career.

[cyclewalabanda.blogspot.com]
How to defend Society against Science by PK Feyerabend

...
I want to defend society and its inhabitants from all ideologies, science included. All ideologies must be seen in perspective. One must not take them too seriously. One must read them like fairy-tales which have lots of interesting things to say but which also contain wicked lies, or like ethical prescriptions which may be useful rules of thumb but which are deadly when followed to the letter.
...

> If in my most learned career I had a choice, then the works of
> Velikovsky et al (which I began reading in the early 1970's)
> speaks far much more sense to me (and we are only talking about
> the solar system here, never mind the Universe and beyond etc)
> than conventional science/astronomy purports...with all its
> black holes, dark matter, dark energy, mirror matter, parallel
> universes etc, etc almost ad infinitum.
>
> C'mon:
>
> As Oliver Hardy said many times to Stan Laurel in times past:
>
> "Why don't you do something to help me"?
>
> Joking aside and as you well know, there are so many unanswered
> questions which need to be addressed, particularly those of
> Venus, the Earth and the other planets too.
>

And promoting mythology over well-established science helps to answer those questions in what way? If you're going to invent a mythology for yourself, or adopt someone else's, that's fine. Mythology has a place in human thought. Just don't claim it is 'alternative science'.

> Any measure of what so-called "science/astronomy" these days
> apparently suggests to be, in order no doubt to suit the
> out-dated "conjecture" (in my view) as to how our solar system
> actually formed ie the 'Nebular Theory', is also being
> continually updated to suit the "status quo" of mainstream
> conventionalism ie once again to support the out-dated Nebular
> Theory.
>

Out-dated? Lack of proof is not refutation. Is the Nebular theory refuted? Or just not proven? If some sort of solid evidence turns up for a different theory I'm sure scientists will be very interested. The chance to be the 'discoverer' of something new, get a lot of research grants and maybe get your name in the history books is a pretty strong motivation to seek out new ideas in science.

Planetary billiards is not an alternative theory. It violates the most basic known laws of physics, like conservation of momentum.

> Overall, all I am saying to you very briefly, is that in my
> research at least, Venus bears all the hallmarks of being a
> very recent addition to our family of planets.
>

Research in what, though? Are you following the Velikovsky path of piecing together bits of mythology and then claiming it is scientifically valid? If you can provide a coherent re-interpretation of actual scientific data, that's one thing. If you're just going to assert clear impossibilities based on selected fragments of mythologies you're wasting everyone's time.



--
Like ancient Rome, we today are once more importing every form of exotic superstition in the hope of finding the right remedy for our sickness.
-- C. G. Jung
Richard Wilhelm: In Memoriam (1930), CW 15: pg. 60

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Subject Views Written By Posted
A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 878 Laird Scranton 22-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 323 legionromanes 22-Jun-08 19:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 299 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 306 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 321 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 294 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 331 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 01:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 307 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 318 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 314 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 309 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 321 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 308 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 304 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 03:54
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 292 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 383 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 308 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 298 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 294 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 299 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 319 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 285 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 331 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 332 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 283 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 312 carolb 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 266 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 320 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 328 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 332 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 21:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 274 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 21:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 297 Diomede 25-Nov-08 21:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 270 JonnyMcA 25-Nov-08 21:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 332 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 340 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 17:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 300 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 18:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 331 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 20:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 300 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 20:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 329 Gary Gilligan 26-Nov-08 21:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 322 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 21:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 293 Diomede 29-Nov-08 23:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 307 JonnyMcA 29-Nov-08 23:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 Diomede 30-Nov-08 21:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 305 Diomede 30-Nov-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 277 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 10:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 281 Diomede 01-Dec-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 290 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 22:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 309 Voyager 26-Nov-08 17:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 320 Diomede 27-Nov-08 21:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 262 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 21:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 Diomede 06-Dec-08 16:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 312 Nolondil 06-Dec-08 20:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 297 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 308 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 319 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 277 Voyager 08-Dec-08 02:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 323 Diomede 09-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 292 Nolondil 09-Dec-08 01:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 310 Susan Doris 09-Dec-08 07:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 337 Diomede 12-Dec-08 12:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 298 Susan Doris 12-Dec-08 14:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 319 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 300 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 304 Susan Doris 28-Nov-08 07:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 281 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 276 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 292 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 304 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 08:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 318 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 324 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 347 Voyager 27-Nov-08 02:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 281 NetWorkAngel 27-Nov-08 15:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 321 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 15:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 310 legionromanes 28-Nov-08 15:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 295 Diomede 01-Dec-08 21:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 302 legionromanes 01-Dec-08 21:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 303 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 16:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 JonnyMcA 02-Dec-08 17:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 276 Susan Doris 02-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 324 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 19:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 286 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 20:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 312 NetWorkAngel 02-Dec-08 20:43
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 Diomede 03-Dec-08 01:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 295 Diomede 02-Dec-08 23:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 310 Voyager 03-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 311 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 15:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 302 degiem1 04-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 Laird Scranton 04-Dec-08 23:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 286 Voyager 05-Dec-08 00:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 294 Diomede 05-Dec-08 21:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 256 Voyager 05-Dec-08 23:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 Susan Doris 06-Dec-08 07:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 290 Diomede 06-Dec-08 20:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 245 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 degiem1 05-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 00:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 261 degiem1 05-Dec-08 01:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 287 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 02:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 degiem1 05-Dec-08 19:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 254 Voyager 05-Dec-08 03:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 277 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 Diomede 06-Dec-08 22:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 251 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 252 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 259 legionromanes 05-Dec-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 242 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 21:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 234 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 259 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 252 ariston 06-Dec-08 00:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 224 ariston 05-Dec-08 23:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 283 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 19:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 Diomede 07-Dec-08 02:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 294 legionromanes 07-Dec-08 14:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 225 Voyager 07-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 279 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 248 legionromanes 08-Dec-08 08:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 288 ariston 01-Dec-08 22:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 266 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 314 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:51
The "Worzel Ash" (Los Chocoyos Volcanic Ash) 926 Xebec 26-Jun-08 03:47
What does this mean? 327 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 06:19
Re: What does this mean? 260 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 14:53
Re: What does this mean? 283 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 16:59
Re: What does this mean? 243 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:23
Re: What does this mean? 318 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 17:55
Re: What does this mean? 274 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 18:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 296 mephisto 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 243 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 302 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 286 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 272 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 253 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 282 Houcad 23-Jun-08 04:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 270 Nolondil 24-Jun-08 03:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 283 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 279 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 274 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:37
What little I understand 287 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 09:48
Re: What little I understand 301 mephisto 24-Jun-08 14:03
Re: What little I understand 265 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:45
Re: What little I understand 269 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 17:29
Re: What little I understand 280 drrayeye 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: What little I understand 281 Elizabeth Newton 25-Jun-08 05:00
Nice Comment 266 Ghia 25-Jun-08 13:38
Re: What little I understand 249 Susan Doris 25-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 280 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 267 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 10:28
Laird does not believe Velikovsky is correct 260 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 12:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 269 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 290 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 13:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 16:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 285 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 16:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 301 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 16:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 284 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 17:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 291 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 17:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 307 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 287 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 17:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 266 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 17:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 274 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 276 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 18:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 305 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 343 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 19:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 238 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:40
Laird Scranton 359 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 19:11
Re: Laird Scranton 277 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:41
Moderator Note: 268 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 22:11
Re: Moderator Note: 292 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:35
Re: Moderator Note:Moderator response 252 Ghia 24-Jun-08 23:00
Re: Moderator Note: 231 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 328 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 264 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 21:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 280 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 22:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 22:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 266 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 259 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 272 Drewski 23-Jun-08 23:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 301 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 295 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 236 Cognito 24-Jun-08 04:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:37
Possibility of venus as a comet. 259 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 13:22
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 274 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 14:18
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 276 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 14:44
Water telescope 296 Ghia 24-Jun-08 17:46
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 300 Johnee 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 283 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 16:05
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 273 Johnee 24-Jun-08 16:44
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 249 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 17:15
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 272 Johnee 24-Jun-08 19:13
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 285 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 343 Johnee 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 280 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 08:53
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 333 Cognito 24-Jun-08 18:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 280 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 18:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 274 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 313 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 271 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 307 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 303 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 253 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 291 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 289 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:08
Mod Note 270 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:11
Re: Mod Note 254 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:14
Re: Mod Note 261 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:20
Re: Mod Note 250 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:08
Re: Mod Note 257 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 255 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 259 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 237 Cognito 24-Jun-08 21:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 281 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 282 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 246 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 238 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 267 Cognito 24-Jun-08 23:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 289 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 301 Cognito 25-Jun-08 03:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 279 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 297 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 04:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 251 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 14:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 248 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 19:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 270 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 309 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 308 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 251 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 03:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 232 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 279 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 350 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 262 mephisto 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 283 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 302 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 15:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 291 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 16:35
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 271 Cognito 26-Jun-08 22:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 288 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:26
Moderator Note 291 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 01:52
Re: Moderator Note 271 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:36
Re: Moderator Note 240 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 22:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 295 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 291 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 20:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 293 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 234 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 283 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 08:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 273 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 269 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 260 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:39
Venus see--Venus do 307 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 08:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 318 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 284 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:37
Re: Venus see--Venus do 251 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:41
Re: Venus see--Venus do 247 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: Venus see--Venus do 285 NetWorkAngel 26-Jun-08 16:45
Re: Venus see--Venus do 264 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:54
Re: Venus see--Venus do 289 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 13:15
Re: Venus see--Venus do 293 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 18:07
Re: Venus see--Venus do 248 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 21:06
Re: Venus see--Venus do 302 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 21:38
Re: Venus see--Venus do 299 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:33
Re: Venus see--Venus do 265 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:16
Re: Venus see--Venus do 266 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:26
Re: Venus see--Venus do 242 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:28
Re: Venus see--Venus do 255 JonnyMcA 27-Jun-08 07:55
Re: Venus see--Venus do 219 Me 27-Jun-08 02:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 302 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 14:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 263 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 15:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 319 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 264 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 323 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 315 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 18:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 259 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 289 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 277 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 274 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 208 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 246 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 14:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 15:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 234 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 15:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 208 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 241 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 245 The Kwuda 24-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 258 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 261 Me 25-Jun-08 02:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 270 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 312 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 280 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 12:38
Moderator Note 251 Hoppy 26-Jun-08 00:52
Re: Moderator Note 292 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 08:12
Re: Moderator Note 255 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 212 Hoppy 27-Jun-08 00:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 266 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:05
Laird, have you seen this? 246 mephisto 26-Jun-08 15:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 278 mephisto 26-Jun-08 16:02
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 247 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:24
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 272 mephisto 27-Jun-08 01:53
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 254 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 256 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:47
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 243 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:18
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 232 mephisto 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 284 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:14
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 254 mephisto 27-Jun-08 03:38
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 258 mephisto 27-Jun-08 05:46
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 244 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 276 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Joe Atlantis 28-Nov-08 05:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 Diomede 28-Nov-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 283 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 13:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 254 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 23:33
Thread Closed 265 JonnyMcA 12-Dec-08 23:50


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