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Diomede wrote:

> Hi Nolondil,
>
> > "You continue to make unsupported and unsupportable
> assertions. This is the problem with the Velikovsky method.
> Science isn't done by by Jedi Mind Trick.
>
> Sure I do,
>
> Fair criticism.
>
> Why?
>
> In short:
>
> Dissent!
>
> Surely and equally in support of your comments..."Science"
> itself IS also done and ruled by the the same 'Jedi Mind Trick'
> as you say, but these days cunningly disguised in different
> guises, forms, attires and various other disturbingly
> convincing attributes.
>
> "Science" is now currently and respectably "accepted" as truth
> (or at least, not far from it), particularly amongst those in
> high places, which is to say the scientific hierarchy and their
> numerous mentors...obedient servants if you will...the
> religious equivalent of Cardinals, Bishops, Priests etc who are
> the guiding pillars of "knowledge" and Society etc and whom
> actually rule the roost...and we are supposed to blindly follow
> them!!?
>

No, you are not expected to 'blindly' follow them, you are expected to examine the data yourself and follow certain methods of reasoning about it. Most people don't bother, of course. Few even read the popular news releases, let alone the actual papers. But they are available if you are interested. We are not handed scientific truth from 'on high' (well, except in school where everything is handed down from 'on high' simply because we are expected to reach a certain threshold of shared knowledge to become citizens) -- we are given plenty of information about the experiment, the actual data (where other things like privacy concerns don't prevent it) and the actual reasoning that produces the conclusion.

Certainly science can have undesirable and outright deleterious consequences for society at large. "Social Darwinism" is a good example of this. Darwin could never have guessed that his principle of 'natural selection' in the natural world could and would be twisted into justification of brutal classist and racist social policies against humans. But the basic 'tools' were developed by and for scientific thinking, and then were applied in an unexpected way. Similar abuses have occurred with Freud's psychology, and Marshal McLuhan even pointed out how communications technology was changing the way we viewed the world regardless of what was being transmitted. "The Medium is the message." The law of unintended consequences holds everywhere.

But I'm afraid I don't understand how promoting chaff like Velikovsky's personal mythology as an 'alternative' to contemporary science improves anyone else's freedom of thought. The only thing consistent I have found about his writings is that they always uphold Biblical miracles by any means necessary. The plagues of Exodus, manna falling from heaven to feed the Israelites, the 'sun standing still' over the battle of Gibeon (Joshua 12-15), etc. These are the things he's trying to explain and re-establish credibility for. Velikovsky was a Zionist and never tried to disguise that -- though it's not as if he could have! :) -- and he was trying to justify the state of Israel by returning credibility to Biblical miracles and prophecy. Does reinforcing the old totalitarianism help anyone resist the new totalitarianism? I don't think so.

There is plenty of notice taken of both the accidental ill effects and the deliberate misuse of science by modern thinkers both inside and outside the formal 'academic' world. It is possible to recognize the problems brought on by over-extending materialist thinking while still appreciating what it is really good for. Searching on the terms 'scientific materialism' or 'scientific realism' or even simply 'naturalism' will produce loads of interesting articles, many with with links to further resources. Wikipedia is a reasonable place to start:

[en.wikipedia.org]

But there are some radicals out there even in the 'establishment'. Paul Feyerabend argued against science in some quite extreme ways over his career.

[cyclewalabanda.blogspot.com]
How to defend Society against Science by PK Feyerabend

...
I want to defend society and its inhabitants from all ideologies, science included. All ideologies must be seen in perspective. One must not take them too seriously. One must read them like fairy-tales which have lots of interesting things to say but which also contain wicked lies, or like ethical prescriptions which may be useful rules of thumb but which are deadly when followed to the letter.
...

> If in my most learned career I had a choice, then the works of
> Velikovsky et al (which I began reading in the early 1970's)
> speaks far much more sense to me (and we are only talking about
> the solar system here, never mind the Universe and beyond etc)
> than conventional science/astronomy purports...with all its
> black holes, dark matter, dark energy, mirror matter, parallel
> universes etc, etc almost ad infinitum.
>
> C'mon:
>
> As Oliver Hardy said many times to Stan Laurel in times past:
>
> "Why don't you do something to help me"?
>
> Joking aside and as you well know, there are so many unanswered
> questions which need to be addressed, particularly those of
> Venus, the Earth and the other planets too.
>

And promoting mythology over well-established science helps to answer those questions in what way? If you're going to invent a mythology for yourself, or adopt someone else's, that's fine. Mythology has a place in human thought. Just don't claim it is 'alternative science'.

> Any measure of what so-called "science/astronomy" these days
> apparently suggests to be, in order no doubt to suit the
> out-dated "conjecture" (in my view) as to how our solar system
> actually formed ie the 'Nebular Theory', is also being
> continually updated to suit the "status quo" of mainstream
> conventionalism ie once again to support the out-dated Nebular
> Theory.
>

Out-dated? Lack of proof is not refutation. Is the Nebular theory refuted? Or just not proven? If some sort of solid evidence turns up for a different theory I'm sure scientists will be very interested. The chance to be the 'discoverer' of something new, get a lot of research grants and maybe get your name in the history books is a pretty strong motivation to seek out new ideas in science.

Planetary billiards is not an alternative theory. It violates the most basic known laws of physics, like conservation of momentum.

> Overall, all I am saying to you very briefly, is that in my
> research at least, Venus bears all the hallmarks of being a
> very recent addition to our family of planets.
>

Research in what, though? Are you following the Velikovsky path of piecing together bits of mythology and then claiming it is scientifically valid? If you can provide a coherent re-interpretation of actual scientific data, that's one thing. If you're just going to assert clear impossibilities based on selected fragments of mythologies you're wasting everyone's time.



--
Like ancient Rome, we today are once more importing every form of exotic superstition in the hope of finding the right remedy for our sickness.
-- C. G. Jung
Richard Wilhelm: In Memoriam (1930), CW 15: pg. 60

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Subject Views Written By Posted
A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 755 Laird Scranton 22-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 274 legionromanes 22-Jun-08 19:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 258 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 274 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 245 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 280 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 01:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 266 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 263 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 267 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 263 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 255 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 03:54
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 263 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 248 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 269 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 240 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 284 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 241 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 carolb 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 223 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 264 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 21:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 21:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 Diomede 25-Nov-08 21:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 225 JonnyMcA 25-Nov-08 21:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 290 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 17:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 253 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 18:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 20:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 257 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 20:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 275 Gary Gilligan 26-Nov-08 21:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 272 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 21:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 237 Diomede 29-Nov-08 23:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 252 JonnyMcA 29-Nov-08 23:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 Diomede 30-Nov-08 21:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 256 Diomede 30-Nov-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 224 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 10:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 235 Diomede 01-Dec-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 245 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 22:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 253 Voyager 26-Nov-08 17:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 272 Diomede 27-Nov-08 21:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 217 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 21:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 222 Diomede 06-Dec-08 16:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 263 Nolondil 06-Dec-08 20:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 245 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 260 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 266 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Voyager 08-Dec-08 02:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 270 Diomede 09-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 237 Nolondil 09-Dec-08 01:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 Susan Doris 09-Dec-08 07:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 281 Diomede 12-Dec-08 12:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 251 Susan Doris 12-Dec-08 14:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 265 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 Susan Doris 28-Nov-08 07:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 227 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 225 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 240 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 252 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 08:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 274 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 269 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 300 Voyager 27-Nov-08 02:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 233 NetWorkAngel 27-Nov-08 15:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 15:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 262 legionromanes 28-Nov-08 15:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 246 Diomede 01-Dec-08 21:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 253 legionromanes 01-Dec-08 21:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 243 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 16:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 221 JonnyMcA 02-Dec-08 17:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 227 Susan Doris 02-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 267 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 19:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 239 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 20:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 261 NetWorkAngel 02-Dec-08 20:43
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 Diomede 03-Dec-08 01:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 236 Diomede 02-Dec-08 23:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 263 Voyager 03-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 257 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 15:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 259 degiem1 04-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 Laird Scranton 04-Dec-08 23:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 242 Voyager 05-Dec-08 00:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 248 Diomede 05-Dec-08 21:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 Voyager 05-Dec-08 23:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 232 Susan Doris 06-Dec-08 07:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 247 Diomede 06-Dec-08 20:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 192 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 235 degiem1 05-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 233 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 00:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 degiem1 05-Dec-08 01:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 02:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 221 degiem1 05-Dec-08 19:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Voyager 05-Dec-08 03:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 198 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 Diomede 06-Dec-08 22:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 208 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 legionromanes 05-Dec-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 21:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 188 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 208 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 ariston 06-Dec-08 00:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 ariston 05-Dec-08 23:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 236 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 19:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 214 Diomede 07-Dec-08 02:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 251 legionromanes 07-Dec-08 14:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 Voyager 07-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 legionromanes 08-Dec-08 08:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 216 ariston 01-Dec-08 22:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 223 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 259 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:51
The "Worzel Ash" (Los Chocoyos Volcanic Ash) 749 Xebec 26-Jun-08 03:47
What does this mean? 269 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 06:19
Re: What does this mean? 221 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 14:53
Re: What does this mean? 230 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 16:59
Re: What does this mean? 197 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:23
Re: What does this mean? 261 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 17:55
Re: What does this mean? 233 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 18:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 247 mephisto 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 235 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 246 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 224 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 234 Houcad 23-Jun-08 04:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 224 Nolondil 24-Jun-08 03:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 238 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 233 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 232 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:37
What little I understand 232 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 09:48
Re: What little I understand 257 mephisto 24-Jun-08 14:03
Re: What little I understand 218 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:45
Re: What little I understand 226 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 17:29
Re: What little I understand 231 drrayeye 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: What little I understand 231 Elizabeth Newton 25-Jun-08 05:00
Nice Comment 213 Ghia 25-Jun-08 13:38
Re: What little I understand 196 Susan Doris 25-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 240 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 222 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 213 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 10:28
Laird does not believe Velikovsky is correct 206 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 12:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 223 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 240 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 13:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 16:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 239 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 16:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 254 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 16:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 239 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 17:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 244 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 17:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 253 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 245 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 17:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 17:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 226 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 18:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 237 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 270 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 19:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:40
Laird Scranton 300 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 19:11
Re: Laird Scranton 229 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:41
Moderator Note: 217 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 22:11
Re: Moderator Note: 229 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:35
Re: Moderator Note:Moderator response 206 Ghia 24-Jun-08 23:00
Re: Moderator Note: 181 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 276 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 220 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 21:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 235 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 22:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 227 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 219 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 22:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 213 Drewski 23-Jun-08 23:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 258 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 245 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 Cognito 24-Jun-08 04:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 235 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:37
Possibility of venus as a comet. 219 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 13:22
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 224 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 14:18
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 228 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 14:44
Water telescope 237 Ghia 24-Jun-08 17:46
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 254 Johnee 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 238 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 16:05
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 224 Johnee 24-Jun-08 16:44
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 205 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 17:15
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 227 Johnee 24-Jun-08 19:13
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 241 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 276 Johnee 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 233 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 08:53
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 255 Cognito 24-Jun-08 18:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 233 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 18:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 233 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 253 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 213 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 251 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 230 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 209 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 259 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 238 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:08
Mod Note 226 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:11
Re: Mod Note 200 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:14
Re: Mod Note 220 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:20
Re: Mod Note 204 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:08
Re: Mod Note 206 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 213 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 195 Cognito 24-Jun-08 21:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 232 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 234 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 220 Cognito 24-Jun-08 23:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 245 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 254 Cognito 25-Jun-08 03:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 243 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 223 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 04:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 14:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 19:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 221 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 236 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 261 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 03:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 237 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 285 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 mephisto 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 235 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 15:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 248 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 16:35
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 227 Cognito 26-Jun-08 22:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 240 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:26
Moderator Note 243 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 01:52
Re: Moderator Note 226 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:36
Re: Moderator Note 195 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 22:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 243 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 241 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 20:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 247 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 170 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 221 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 08:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 233 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:39
Venus see--Venus do 249 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 08:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 273 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 242 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:37
Re: Venus see--Venus do 210 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:41
Re: Venus see--Venus do 207 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: Venus see--Venus do 230 NetWorkAngel 26-Jun-08 16:45
Re: Venus see--Venus do 208 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:54
Re: Venus see--Venus do 236 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 13:15
Re: Venus see--Venus do 245 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 18:07
Re: Venus see--Venus do 201 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 21:06
Re: Venus see--Venus do 252 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 21:38
Re: Venus see--Venus do 253 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:33
Re: Venus see--Venus do 218 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:16
Re: Venus see--Venus do 216 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:26
Re: Venus see--Venus do 189 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:28
Re: Venus see--Venus do 213 JonnyMcA 27-Jun-08 07:55
Re: Venus see--Venus do 177 Me 27-Jun-08 02:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 250 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 14:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 219 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 15:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 249 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 216 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 278 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 268 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 18:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 213 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 237 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 227 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 195 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 14:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 149 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 15:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 15:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 167 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 The Kwuda 24-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 214 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 Me 25-Jun-08 02:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 217 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 234 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 12:38
Moderator Note 174 Hoppy 26-Jun-08 00:52
Re: Moderator Note 254 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 08:12
Re: Moderator Note 216 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 163 Hoppy 27-Jun-08 00:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:05
Laird, have you seen this? 200 mephisto 26-Jun-08 15:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 230 mephisto 26-Jun-08 16:02
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 199 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:24
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 224 mephisto 27-Jun-08 01:53
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 209 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 199 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:47
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 199 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:18
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 187 mephisto 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 237 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:14
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 205 mephisto 27-Jun-08 03:38
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 214 mephisto 27-Jun-08 05:46
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 200 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 Joe Atlantis 28-Nov-08 05:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 Diomede 28-Nov-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 13:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 23:33
Thread Closed 211 JonnyMcA 12-Dec-08 23:50


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