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Diomede wrote:

> Hi Nolondil,
>
> > "You continue to make unsupported and unsupportable
> assertions. This is the problem with the Velikovsky method.
> Science isn't done by by Jedi Mind Trick.
>
> Sure I do,
>
> Fair criticism.
>
> Why?
>
> In short:
>
> Dissent!
>
> Surely and equally in support of your comments..."Science"
> itself IS also done and ruled by the the same 'Jedi Mind Trick'
> as you say, but these days cunningly disguised in different
> guises, forms, attires and various other disturbingly
> convincing attributes.
>
> "Science" is now currently and respectably "accepted" as truth
> (or at least, not far from it), particularly amongst those in
> high places, which is to say the scientific hierarchy and their
> numerous mentors...obedient servants if you will...the
> religious equivalent of Cardinals, Bishops, Priests etc who are
> the guiding pillars of "knowledge" and Society etc and whom
> actually rule the roost...and we are supposed to blindly follow
> them!!?
>

No, you are not expected to 'blindly' follow them, you are expected to examine the data yourself and follow certain methods of reasoning about it. Most people don't bother, of course. Few even read the popular news releases, let alone the actual papers. But they are available if you are interested. We are not handed scientific truth from 'on high' (well, except in school where everything is handed down from 'on high' simply because we are expected to reach a certain threshold of shared knowledge to become citizens) -- we are given plenty of information about the experiment, the actual data (where other things like privacy concerns don't prevent it) and the actual reasoning that produces the conclusion.

Certainly science can have undesirable and outright deleterious consequences for society at large. "Social Darwinism" is a good example of this. Darwin could never have guessed that his principle of 'natural selection' in the natural world could and would be twisted into justification of brutal classist and racist social policies against humans. But the basic 'tools' were developed by and for scientific thinking, and then were applied in an unexpected way. Similar abuses have occurred with Freud's psychology, and Marshal McLuhan even pointed out how communications technology was changing the way we viewed the world regardless of what was being transmitted. "The Medium is the message." The law of unintended consequences holds everywhere.

But I'm afraid I don't understand how promoting chaff like Velikovsky's personal mythology as an 'alternative' to contemporary science improves anyone else's freedom of thought. The only thing consistent I have found about his writings is that they always uphold Biblical miracles by any means necessary. The plagues of Exodus, manna falling from heaven to feed the Israelites, the 'sun standing still' over the battle of Gibeon (Joshua 12-15), etc. These are the things he's trying to explain and re-establish credibility for. Velikovsky was a Zionist and never tried to disguise that -- though it's not as if he could have! :) -- and he was trying to justify the state of Israel by returning credibility to Biblical miracles and prophecy. Does reinforcing the old totalitarianism help anyone resist the new totalitarianism? I don't think so.

There is plenty of notice taken of both the accidental ill effects and the deliberate misuse of science by modern thinkers both inside and outside the formal 'academic' world. It is possible to recognize the problems brought on by over-extending materialist thinking while still appreciating what it is really good for. Searching on the terms 'scientific materialism' or 'scientific realism' or even simply 'naturalism' will produce loads of interesting articles, many with with links to further resources. Wikipedia is a reasonable place to start:

[en.wikipedia.org]

But there are some radicals out there even in the 'establishment'. Paul Feyerabend argued against science in some quite extreme ways over his career.

[cyclewalabanda.blogspot.com]
How to defend Society against Science by PK Feyerabend

...
I want to defend society and its inhabitants from all ideologies, science included. All ideologies must be seen in perspective. One must not take them too seriously. One must read them like fairy-tales which have lots of interesting things to say but which also contain wicked lies, or like ethical prescriptions which may be useful rules of thumb but which are deadly when followed to the letter.
...

> If in my most learned career I had a choice, then the works of
> Velikovsky et al (which I began reading in the early 1970's)
> speaks far much more sense to me (and we are only talking about
> the solar system here, never mind the Universe and beyond etc)
> than conventional science/astronomy purports...with all its
> black holes, dark matter, dark energy, mirror matter, parallel
> universes etc, etc almost ad infinitum.
>
> C'mon:
>
> As Oliver Hardy said many times to Stan Laurel in times past:
>
> "Why don't you do something to help me"?
>
> Joking aside and as you well know, there are so many unanswered
> questions which need to be addressed, particularly those of
> Venus, the Earth and the other planets too.
>

And promoting mythology over well-established science helps to answer those questions in what way? If you're going to invent a mythology for yourself, or adopt someone else's, that's fine. Mythology has a place in human thought. Just don't claim it is 'alternative science'.

> Any measure of what so-called "science/astronomy" these days
> apparently suggests to be, in order no doubt to suit the
> out-dated "conjecture" (in my view) as to how our solar system
> actually formed ie the 'Nebular Theory', is also being
> continually updated to suit the "status quo" of mainstream
> conventionalism ie once again to support the out-dated Nebular
> Theory.
>

Out-dated? Lack of proof is not refutation. Is the Nebular theory refuted? Or just not proven? If some sort of solid evidence turns up for a different theory I'm sure scientists will be very interested. The chance to be the 'discoverer' of something new, get a lot of research grants and maybe get your name in the history books is a pretty strong motivation to seek out new ideas in science.

Planetary billiards is not an alternative theory. It violates the most basic known laws of physics, like conservation of momentum.

> Overall, all I am saying to you very briefly, is that in my
> research at least, Venus bears all the hallmarks of being a
> very recent addition to our family of planets.
>

Research in what, though? Are you following the Velikovsky path of piecing together bits of mythology and then claiming it is scientifically valid? If you can provide a coherent re-interpretation of actual scientific data, that's one thing. If you're just going to assert clear impossibilities based on selected fragments of mythologies you're wasting everyone's time.



--
Like ancient Rome, we today are once more importing every form of exotic superstition in the hope of finding the right remedy for our sickness.
-- C. G. Jung
Richard Wilhelm: In Memoriam (1930), CW 15: pg. 60

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Subject Views Written By Posted
A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 668 Laird Scranton 22-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 236 legionromanes 22-Jun-08 19:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 213 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 226 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 243 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 238 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 01:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 232 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 221 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 230 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 232 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 217 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 03:54
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 226 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 232 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 238 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 carolb 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 226 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 240 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 21:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 21:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 Diomede 25-Nov-08 21:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 JonnyMcA 25-Nov-08 21:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 246 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 255 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 17:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 205 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 18:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 244 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 20:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 223 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 20:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 Gary Gilligan 26-Nov-08 21:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 222 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 21:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 Diomede 29-Nov-08 23:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 JonnyMcA 29-Nov-08 23:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 195 Diomede 30-Nov-08 21:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 219 Diomede 30-Nov-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 10:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 Diomede 01-Dec-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 205 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 22:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 222 Voyager 26-Nov-08 17:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 Diomede 27-Nov-08 21:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 21:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 Diomede 06-Dec-08 16:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Nolondil 06-Dec-08 20:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 208 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 229 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 198 Voyager 08-Dec-08 02:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 234 Diomede 09-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 Nolondil 09-Dec-08 01:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Susan Doris 09-Dec-08 07:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 227 Diomede 12-Dec-08 12:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 217 Susan Doris 12-Dec-08 14:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 Susan Doris 28-Nov-08 07:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 08:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 225 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 234 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 241 Voyager 27-Nov-08 02:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 NetWorkAngel 27-Nov-08 15:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 238 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 15:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 legionromanes 28-Nov-08 15:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 Diomede 01-Dec-08 21:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 216 legionromanes 01-Dec-08 21:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 16:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 180 JonnyMcA 02-Dec-08 17:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 Susan Doris 02-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 19:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 20:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 226 NetWorkAngel 02-Dec-08 20:43
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 Diomede 03-Dec-08 01:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 Diomede 02-Dec-08 23:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 226 Voyager 03-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 222 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 15:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 degiem1 04-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 Laird Scranton 04-Dec-08 23:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 175 Voyager 05-Dec-08 00:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 217 Diomede 05-Dec-08 21:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 Voyager 05-Dec-08 23:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 202 Susan Doris 06-Dec-08 07:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 180 Diomede 06-Dec-08 20:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 157 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 degiem1 05-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 00:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 degiem1 05-Dec-08 01:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 02:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 degiem1 05-Dec-08 19:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 Voyager 05-Dec-08 03:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Diomede 06-Dec-08 22:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 legionromanes 05-Dec-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 148 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 21:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 157 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 175 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 167 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 ariston 06-Dec-08 00:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 145 ariston 05-Dec-08 23:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 19:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 Diomede 07-Dec-08 02:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 legionromanes 07-Dec-08 14:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 Voyager 07-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 legionromanes 08-Dec-08 08:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 ariston 01-Dec-08 22:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 188 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:51
The "Worzel Ash" (Los Chocoyos Volcanic Ash) 628 Xebec 26-Jun-08 03:47
What does this mean? 231 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 06:19
Re: What does this mean? 190 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 14:53
Re: What does this mean? 197 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 16:59
Re: What does this mean? 168 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:23
Re: What does this mean? 226 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 17:55
Re: What does this mean? 204 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 18:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 217 mephisto 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 190 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 206 Houcad 23-Jun-08 04:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 Nolondil 24-Jun-08 03:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 209 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:37
What little I understand 192 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 09:48
Re: What little I understand 206 mephisto 24-Jun-08 14:03
Re: What little I understand 189 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:45
Re: What little I understand 196 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 17:29
Re: What little I understand 199 drrayeye 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: What little I understand 183 Elizabeth Newton 25-Jun-08 05:00
Nice Comment 175 Ghia 25-Jun-08 13:38
Re: What little I understand 168 Susan Doris 25-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 192 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 10:28
Laird does not believe Velikovsky is correct 174 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 12:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 190 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 13:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 16:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 16:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 214 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 16:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 17:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 17:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 213 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 17:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 17:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 168 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 18:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 233 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 19:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 157 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:40
Laird Scranton 248 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 19:11
Re: Laird Scranton 192 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:41
Moderator Note: 171 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 22:11
Re: Moderator Note: 195 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:35
Re: Moderator Note:Moderator response 173 Ghia 24-Jun-08 23:00
Re: Moderator Note: 148 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 224 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 21:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 22:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 22:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 Drewski 23-Jun-08 23:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 170 Cognito 24-Jun-08 04:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 205 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:37
Possibility of venus as a comet. 186 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 13:22
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 183 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 14:18
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 196 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 14:44
Water telescope 200 Ghia 24-Jun-08 17:46
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 223 Johnee 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 210 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 16:05
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 192 Johnee 24-Jun-08 16:44
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 164 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 17:15
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 192 Johnee 24-Jun-08 19:13
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 219 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 226 Johnee 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 202 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 08:53
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 222 Cognito 24-Jun-08 18:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 205 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 18:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 173 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 206 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:08
Mod Note 185 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:11
Re: Mod Note 170 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:14
Re: Mod Note 194 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:20
Re: Mod Note 174 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:08
Re: Mod Note 177 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 Cognito 24-Jun-08 21:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 209 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 173 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 Cognito 24-Jun-08 23:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 Cognito 25-Jun-08 03:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 195 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 04:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 14:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 19:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 184 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 228 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 03:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 156 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 195 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 mephisto 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 15:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 16:35
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 Cognito 26-Jun-08 22:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:26
Moderator Note 206 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 01:52
Re: Moderator Note 195 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:36
Re: Moderator Note 165 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 22:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 20:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 136 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 08:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:39
Venus see--Venus do 218 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 08:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 220 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 181 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:37
Re: Venus see--Venus do 173 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:41
Re: Venus see--Venus do 173 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: Venus see--Venus do 194 NetWorkAngel 26-Jun-08 16:45
Re: Venus see--Venus do 174 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:54
Re: Venus see--Venus do 187 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 13:15
Re: Venus see--Venus do 208 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 18:07
Re: Venus see--Venus do 170 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 21:06
Re: Venus see--Venus do 193 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 21:38
Re: Venus see--Venus do 207 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:33
Re: Venus see--Venus do 190 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:16
Re: Venus see--Venus do 167 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:26
Re: Venus see--Venus do 148 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:28
Re: Venus see--Venus do 180 JonnyMcA 27-Jun-08 07:55
Re: Venus see--Venus do 146 Me 27-Jun-08 02:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 148 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 156 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 14:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 15:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 242 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 206 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 18:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 135 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 139 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 14:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 118 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 15:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 15:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 117 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 The Kwuda 24-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 Me 25-Jun-08 02:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 168 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 12:38
Moderator Note 137 Hoppy 26-Jun-08 00:52
Re: Moderator Note 185 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 08:12
Re: Moderator Note 168 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 131 Hoppy 27-Jun-08 00:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:05
Laird, have you seen this? 163 mephisto 26-Jun-08 15:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 186 mephisto 26-Jun-08 16:02
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 149 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:24
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 160 mephisto 27-Jun-08 01:53
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 166 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 164 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:47
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 164 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:18
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 156 mephisto 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 198 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:14
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 149 mephisto 27-Jun-08 03:38
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 181 mephisto 27-Jun-08 05:46
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 167 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 149 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 Joe Atlantis 28-Nov-08 05:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 142 Diomede 28-Nov-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 13:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 161 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 184 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 23:33
Thread Closed 150 JonnyMcA 12-Dec-08 23:50


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