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Diomede wrote:

> Hi Nolondil,
>
> > "You continue to make unsupported and unsupportable
> assertions. This is the problem with the Velikovsky method.
> Science isn't done by by Jedi Mind Trick.
>
> Sure I do,
>
> Fair criticism.
>
> Why?
>
> In short:
>
> Dissent!
>
> Surely and equally in support of your comments..."Science"
> itself IS also done and ruled by the the same 'Jedi Mind Trick'
> as you say, but these days cunningly disguised in different
> guises, forms, attires and various other disturbingly
> convincing attributes.
>
> "Science" is now currently and respectably "accepted" as truth
> (or at least, not far from it), particularly amongst those in
> high places, which is to say the scientific hierarchy and their
> numerous mentors...obedient servants if you will...the
> religious equivalent of Cardinals, Bishops, Priests etc who are
> the guiding pillars of "knowledge" and Society etc and whom
> actually rule the roost...and we are supposed to blindly follow
> them!!?
>

No, you are not expected to 'blindly' follow them, you are expected to examine the data yourself and follow certain methods of reasoning about it. Most people don't bother, of course. Few even read the popular news releases, let alone the actual papers. But they are available if you are interested. We are not handed scientific truth from 'on high' (well, except in school where everything is handed down from 'on high' simply because we are expected to reach a certain threshold of shared knowledge to become citizens) -- we are given plenty of information about the experiment, the actual data (where other things like privacy concerns don't prevent it) and the actual reasoning that produces the conclusion.

Certainly science can have undesirable and outright deleterious consequences for society at large. "Social Darwinism" is a good example of this. Darwin could never have guessed that his principle of 'natural selection' in the natural world could and would be twisted into justification of brutal classist and racist social policies against humans. But the basic 'tools' were developed by and for scientific thinking, and then were applied in an unexpected way. Similar abuses have occurred with Freud's psychology, and Marshal McLuhan even pointed out how communications technology was changing the way we viewed the world regardless of what was being transmitted. "The Medium is the message." The law of unintended consequences holds everywhere.

But I'm afraid I don't understand how promoting chaff like Velikovsky's personal mythology as an 'alternative' to contemporary science improves anyone else's freedom of thought. The only thing consistent I have found about his writings is that they always uphold Biblical miracles by any means necessary. The plagues of Exodus, manna falling from heaven to feed the Israelites, the 'sun standing still' over the battle of Gibeon (Joshua 12-15), etc. These are the things he's trying to explain and re-establish credibility for. Velikovsky was a Zionist and never tried to disguise that -- though it's not as if he could have! :) -- and he was trying to justify the state of Israel by returning credibility to Biblical miracles and prophecy. Does reinforcing the old totalitarianism help anyone resist the new totalitarianism? I don't think so.

There is plenty of notice taken of both the accidental ill effects and the deliberate misuse of science by modern thinkers both inside and outside the formal 'academic' world. It is possible to recognize the problems brought on by over-extending materialist thinking while still appreciating what it is really good for. Searching on the terms 'scientific materialism' or 'scientific realism' or even simply 'naturalism' will produce loads of interesting articles, many with with links to further resources. Wikipedia is a reasonable place to start:

[en.wikipedia.org]

But there are some radicals out there even in the 'establishment'. Paul Feyerabend argued against science in some quite extreme ways over his career.

[cyclewalabanda.blogspot.com]
How to defend Society against Science by PK Feyerabend

...
I want to defend society and its inhabitants from all ideologies, science included. All ideologies must be seen in perspective. One must not take them too seriously. One must read them like fairy-tales which have lots of interesting things to say but which also contain wicked lies, or like ethical prescriptions which may be useful rules of thumb but which are deadly when followed to the letter.
...

> If in my most learned career I had a choice, then the works of
> Velikovsky et al (which I began reading in the early 1970's)
> speaks far much more sense to me (and we are only talking about
> the solar system here, never mind the Universe and beyond etc)
> than conventional science/astronomy purports...with all its
> black holes, dark matter, dark energy, mirror matter, parallel
> universes etc, etc almost ad infinitum.
>
> C'mon:
>
> As Oliver Hardy said many times to Stan Laurel in times past:
>
> "Why don't you do something to help me"?
>
> Joking aside and as you well know, there are so many unanswered
> questions which need to be addressed, particularly those of
> Venus, the Earth and the other planets too.
>

And promoting mythology over well-established science helps to answer those questions in what way? If you're going to invent a mythology for yourself, or adopt someone else's, that's fine. Mythology has a place in human thought. Just don't claim it is 'alternative science'.

> Any measure of what so-called "science/astronomy" these days
> apparently suggests to be, in order no doubt to suit the
> out-dated "conjecture" (in my view) as to how our solar system
> actually formed ie the 'Nebular Theory', is also being
> continually updated to suit the "status quo" of mainstream
> conventionalism ie once again to support the out-dated Nebular
> Theory.
>

Out-dated? Lack of proof is not refutation. Is the Nebular theory refuted? Or just not proven? If some sort of solid evidence turns up for a different theory I'm sure scientists will be very interested. The chance to be the 'discoverer' of something new, get a lot of research grants and maybe get your name in the history books is a pretty strong motivation to seek out new ideas in science.

Planetary billiards is not an alternative theory. It violates the most basic known laws of physics, like conservation of momentum.

> Overall, all I am saying to you very briefly, is that in my
> research at least, Venus bears all the hallmarks of being a
> very recent addition to our family of planets.
>

Research in what, though? Are you following the Velikovsky path of piecing together bits of mythology and then claiming it is scientifically valid? If you can provide a coherent re-interpretation of actual scientific data, that's one thing. If you're just going to assert clear impossibilities based on selected fragments of mythologies you're wasting everyone's time.



--
Like ancient Rome, we today are once more importing every form of exotic superstition in the hope of finding the right remedy for our sickness.
-- C. G. Jung
Richard Wilhelm: In Memoriam (1930), CW 15: pg. 60

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Subject Views Written By Posted
A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 640 Laird Scranton 22-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 216 legionromanes 22-Jun-08 19:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 206 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 230 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 198 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 00:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 222 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 01:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 216 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 00:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 201 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 214 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 02:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 216 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 02:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 03:54
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 195 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 The Kwuda 23-Jun-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 192 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 04:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 216 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 218 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 168 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 209 carolb 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 175 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 215 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 202 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 20:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 221 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 21:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 21:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 202 Diomede 25-Nov-08 21:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 JonnyMcA 25-Nov-08 21:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 233 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 242 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 17:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 18:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 230 NetWorkAngel 26-Nov-08 20:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 209 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 20:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 Gary Gilligan 26-Nov-08 21:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 JonnyMcA 26-Nov-08 21:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 Diomede 29-Nov-08 23:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 188 JonnyMcA 29-Nov-08 23:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 Diomede 30-Nov-08 21:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 205 Diomede 30-Nov-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 10:09
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 173 Diomede 01-Dec-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 JonnyMcA 01-Dec-08 22:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 207 Voyager 26-Nov-08 17:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 211 Diomede 27-Nov-08 21:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 21:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Diomede 06-Dec-08 16:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 Nolondil 06-Dec-08 20:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 198 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 Voyager 08-Dec-08 02:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 221 Diomede 09-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 180 Nolondil 09-Dec-08 01:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 209 Susan Doris 09-Dec-08 07:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Diomede 12-Dec-08 12:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 202 Susan Doris 12-Dec-08 14:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 217 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 188 Susan Doris 28-Nov-08 07:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 08:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 219 Nolondil 07-Dec-08 19:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 220 Voyager 27-Nov-08 02:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 NetWorkAngel 27-Nov-08 15:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 221 JonnyMcA 27-Nov-08 15:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 legionromanes 28-Nov-08 15:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 190 Diomede 01-Dec-08 21:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 200 legionromanes 01-Dec-08 21:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 196 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 16:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 JonnyMcA 02-Dec-08 17:11
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 180 Susan Doris 02-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 19:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 Laird Scranton 02-Dec-08 20:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 209 NetWorkAngel 02-Dec-08 20:43
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 Diomede 03-Dec-08 01:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 Diomede 02-Dec-08 23:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Voyager 03-Dec-08 01:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 15:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 216 degiem1 04-Dec-08 23:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 184 Laird Scranton 04-Dec-08 23:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 Voyager 05-Dec-08 00:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 206 Diomede 05-Dec-08 21:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 148 Voyager 05-Dec-08 23:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 186 Susan Doris 06-Dec-08 07:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Diomede 06-Dec-08 20:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 143 Susan Doris 07-Dec-08 07:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 168 degiem1 05-Dec-08 00:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 185 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 00:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 degiem1 05-Dec-08 01:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 02:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 165 degiem1 05-Dec-08 19:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 Voyager 05-Dec-08 03:15
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 149 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 04:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 159 Diomede 06-Dec-08 22:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 168 Voyager 06-Dec-08 23:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 Diomede 07-Dec-08 00:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 137 legionromanes 05-Dec-08 04:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 137 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 21:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 145 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 161 Laird Scranton 05-Dec-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 140 Laird Scranton 06-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 ariston 06-Dec-08 00:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 134 ariston 05-Dec-08 23:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 Laird Scranton 03-Dec-08 19:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 166 Diomede 07-Dec-08 02:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 legionromanes 07-Dec-08 14:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 149 Voyager 07-Dec-08 18:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Diomede 08-Dec-08 00:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 legionromanes 08-Dec-08 08:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 ariston 01-Dec-08 22:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Voyager 28-Nov-08 05:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 195 Diomede 06-Dec-08 23:51
The "Worzel Ash" (Los Chocoyos Volcanic Ash) 609 Xebec 26-Jun-08 03:47
What does this mean? 218 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 06:19
Re: What does this mean? 178 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 14:53
Re: What does this mean? 183 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 16:59
Re: What does this mean? 157 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:23
Re: What does this mean? 210 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 17:55
Re: What does this mean? 179 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 18:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 204 mephisto 23-Jun-08 04:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 181 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 04:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 198 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 173 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 15:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 173 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 190 Houcad 23-Jun-08 04:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 06:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Nolondil 24-Jun-08 03:10
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 192 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 192 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:37
What little I understand 177 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 09:48
Re: What little I understand 187 mephisto 24-Jun-08 14:03
Re: What little I understand 184 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:45
Re: What little I understand 171 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 17:29
Re: What little I understand 187 drrayeye 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: What little I understand 172 Elizabeth Newton 25-Jun-08 05:00
Nice Comment 160 Ghia 25-Jun-08 13:38
Re: What little I understand 153 Susan Doris 25-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 07:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 159 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 10:28
Laird does not believe Velikovsky is correct 161 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 12:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 167 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 12:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 175 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 13:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 148 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 16:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 193 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 16:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 198 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 16:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Susan Doris 23-Jun-08 17:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 17:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 191 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 192 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 17:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 17:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 17:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:20
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 149 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 18:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 18:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 212 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 19:00
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 145 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:40
Laird Scranton 211 drrayeye 23-Jun-08 19:11
Re: Laird Scranton 177 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 19:41
Moderator Note: 158 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 22:11
Re: Moderator Note: 182 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:35
Re: Moderator Note:Moderator response 162 Ghia 24-Jun-08 23:00
Re: Moderator Note: 137 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 202 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 20:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 NetWorkAngel 23-Jun-08 21:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 legionromanes 23-Jun-08 22:18
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:21
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 175 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 22:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 JonnyMcA 23-Jun-08 22:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 161 Laird Scranton 23-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Drewski 23-Jun-08 23:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 199 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 159 Cognito 24-Jun-08 04:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 190 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:37
Possibility of venus as a comet. 174 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 13:22
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 170 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 14:18
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 184 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 14:44
Water telescope 188 Ghia 24-Jun-08 17:46
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 212 Johnee 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 200 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 16:05
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 180 Johnee 24-Jun-08 16:44
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 151 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 17:15
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 181 Johnee 24-Jun-08 19:13
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 193 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 19:28
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 200 Johnee 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: Possibility of venus as a comet. 191 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 08:53
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 190 Cognito 24-Jun-08 18:17
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 18:46
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:04
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 198 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 162 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 203 Cognito 24-Jun-08 19:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 150 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 189 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 180 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:08
Mod Note 173 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:11
Re: Mod Note 158 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:14
Re: Mod Note 183 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:20
Re: Mod Note 161 Hoppy 24-Jun-08 23:08
Re: Mod Note 164 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Cognito 24-Jun-08 20:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 159 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:40
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 Cognito 24-Jun-08 21:07
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 184 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 194 Cognito 24-Jun-08 22:14
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 150 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 22:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 Cognito 24-Jun-08 23:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 177 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 23:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 202 Cognito 25-Jun-08 03:08
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 178 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 182 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:32
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 170 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 04:06
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 154 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 14:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 158 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 19:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 197 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 21:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 205 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:25
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 154 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 03:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 145 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 07:36
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:26
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 210 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:48
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 152 mephisto 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 15:30
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 183 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 16:35
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 178 Cognito 26-Jun-08 22:22
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 188 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:26
Moderator Note 192 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 01:52
Re: Moderator Note 181 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:36
Re: Moderator Note 152 Hoppy 25-Jun-08 22:49
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 188 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:34
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 188 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 20:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 149 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 21:03
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 141 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 178 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 01:29
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 150 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 01:56
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 118 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:16
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 140 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:37
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 163 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 07:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 140 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 08:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:44
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 12:58
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 03:39
Venus see--Venus do 190 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 08:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 207 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:19
Re: Venus see--Venus do 159 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:37
Re: Venus see--Venus do 159 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 12:41
Re: Venus see--Venus do 160 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 14:01
Re: Venus see--Venus do 177 NetWorkAngel 26-Jun-08 16:45
Re: Venus see--Venus do 158 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 12:54
Re: Venus see--Venus do 169 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 13:15
Re: Venus see--Venus do 188 drrayeye 26-Jun-08 18:07
Re: Venus see--Venus do 166 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 21:06
Re: Venus see--Venus do 172 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 21:38
Re: Venus see--Venus do 190 Laird Scranton 26-Jun-08 23:33
Re: Venus see--Venus do 172 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:16
Re: Venus see--Venus do 155 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:26
Re: Venus see--Venus do 135 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:28
Re: Venus see--Venus do 159 JonnyMcA 27-Jun-08 07:55
Re: Venus see--Venus do 135 Me 27-Jun-08 02:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 134 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 140 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 14:55
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 15:41
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 171 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 15:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 172 R and M 24-Jun-08 03:39
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 231 Susan Doris 24-Jun-08 15:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 187 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 18:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 153 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:45
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 179 NetWorkAngel 24-Jun-08 19:47
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 174 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 20:05
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 169 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:12
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 122 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:13
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 122 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 14:59
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 105 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-08 15:23
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 138 NetWorkAngel 25-Jun-08 15:31
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 100 Laird Scranton 24-Jun-08 19:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 160 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:19
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 157 The Kwuda 24-Jun-08 20:28
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 136 JonnyMcA 24-Jun-08 20:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 Me 25-Jun-08 02:02
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 155 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 02:42
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 164 Laird Scranton 25-Jun-08 03:24
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 151 legionromanes 25-Jun-08 12:38
Moderator Note 113 Hoppy 26-Jun-08 00:52
Re: Moderator Note 170 JonnyMcA 26-Jun-08 08:12
Re: Moderator Note 156 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 119 Hoppy 27-Jun-08 00:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 146 legionromanes 24-Jun-08 21:05
Laird, have you seen this? 148 mephisto 26-Jun-08 15:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 165 mephisto 26-Jun-08 16:02
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 136 legionromanes 26-Jun-08 17:24
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 141 mephisto 27-Jun-08 01:53
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 156 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 146 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:47
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 143 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 02:18
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 142 mephisto 27-Jun-08 02:23
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 176 Laird Scranton 27-Jun-08 03:14
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 131 mephisto 27-Jun-08 03:38
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 159 mephisto 27-Jun-08 05:46
Re: Laird, have you seen this? 155 legionromanes 27-Jun-08 13:52
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 116 Diomede 25-Nov-08 22:33
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 140 Joe Atlantis 28-Nov-08 05:51
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 120 Diomede 28-Nov-08 22:57
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 178 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 13:38
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 147 Diomede 12-Dec-08 16:50
Re: A partial list in favor of Velikovsky 157 Joe Atlantis 12-Dec-08 23:33
Thread Closed 136 JonnyMcA 12-Dec-08 23:50


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