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>Jon B's diagram ( if it is accurate ... has anyone checked it ??? ) is going to be a staple and great reference work on the pyramid for years to come, I wonder if he realised the enormity of his little exercise. Meanwhile ...<

I think you're going a bit over the top Don. I don't think Scott is extracting any actual data from my diagram so it only serves to illustrate the points he's making.

But as you mention accuracy the layer heights are taken directly from Petrie's figures and I'm confident that they are accurate to his results. However the relationship between the layers and the internal elements is not always as clear. I've again used Petrie's figures and he quotes heights above the base for the positions of the chambers etc. However he could not measure these directly so he derived them mathematically from his own and Smyth's measurements of angles and lengths etc.

These results have become so accepted that they form the basis of nearly every diagram you see of the inside of the Great Pyramid but they have been challenged by some authors who have pointed out some inconsistencies according to how you plot the chambers from Petrie's data. Basically if you work with his quoted angles and use trigonometry things come out slightly different than if you use his "offsets". Most of this comes from the fact that Petrie always quotes a tolerance for his figures and this is invariably ignored as you can't draw a line that varies by plus or minus 6 inches for example or an angle of plus or minus .5°. It's also difficult to show detail on a small drawing where the lines themselves are several inches thick in reality. Lehner has written about how some of the internal positions in the great Pyramid aren't known as accurately as some seem to think. He highlights differences between Maragioglio & Rinaldi's drawings and some of Petrie's for example.

There is another problem with using Petrie's layer data which he himself points out. There are some fairly wide differences between the heights of individual layers from side to side. This can be as much as 6.6 inches. Petrie measured the heights at two corners and I've used his figures for the North East which is what everyone else seems to do. But had he just measured the South West corner, for example, then the figures would be different.

Petrie's figures aren't the only ones for the layer heights and more recent measurements exist. George Goyon measured them in 1978. They appear in BIFAO (Bulletin de'l Institut Francais D'archéologie Orientale) Volume 78 and were subsequently republished in his book on the Great Pyramid. Something odd happens if you try and compare the two sets and I'm still trying to resolve some discrepancies. Though these are mainly concerned with the layers higher up above most of the internal elements. (Other earlier measurements exist such as Smyth's and Jomard's but these all have problems and are not really usable now)

Also as I pointed out to Scott when he asked if he could use my drawing the shafts are not shown accurately. I was preparing a 2D drawing to create a 3D model of the Great Pyramid and I actually plotted the shafts separately and only put them on this drawing approximately. Basically the drawing was done as preliminary to include objects that are symmetrical around the North-South axis which the shafts certainly aren't. All the internal chambers were actually built in 3D separately and then incorporated into my final model so the diagram Scott used was never intended as a final work and only put on the web after a request elsewhere. Personally I find the data for the Northern Shaft from the Queen's Chamber so ambiguous that I don't think you can derive an overall angle for it at all.

I also think that any theory based on exact values of layer heights is a non starter as these heights vary from side to side and according to who measured them. You can make general comments like "layer 35 is the second tallest" but an exact measurement isn't available and a stated tolerance is necessary. I'm happy for anyone to use my diagram but I don't, personally, agree with Scott's conclusions at all.

I haven't read through all the posts but saw a comment on the position of the Queen's Chamber floor. According to Petrie the floor is 834.4 +- .4 inches above the base. Layer 23 starts at 820.3 inches and layer 24 at 852.7 inches. In this case Petrie only quotes a .1 inch variation in the two corners.

Jon

www.egyptarchive.co.uk

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 464 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 01:41
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 255 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 03:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 290 Broker 23-Aug-07 04:15
Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 314 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 11:20
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 270 P Mac 23-Aug-07 12:17
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 323 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:34
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 365 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 307 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:28
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 311 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:30
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 280 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 21:15
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 334 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:25
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 287 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 15:36
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 299 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:16
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 295 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:22
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 313 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:45
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 264 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 270 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 Broker 24-Aug-07 02:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 283 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 15:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 250 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 303 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 16:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 289 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 256 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 214 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 08:36
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 277 P Mac 23-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 312 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 308 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 321 NetWorkAngel 24-Aug-07 20:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 282 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 21:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 176 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 282 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 330 P Mac 23-Aug-07 17:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 214 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 257 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:08
A bit of clarification 269 Jon B 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: A bit of clarification 227 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 332 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 342 mephisto 23-Aug-07 07:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 259 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 283 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 08:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 298 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 282 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 288 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 11:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 195 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:55
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 300 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 13:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 321 Sirfiroth 24-Aug-07 14:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 291 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 15:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Sirfiroth 25-Aug-07 03:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 251 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 246 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 272 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 12:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 262 magisterchessmutt 24-Aug-07 12:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 308 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 287 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 246 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 319 Ghia 23-Aug-07 08:40
Wow! 397 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Wow! 323 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:06
Re: Wow! 306 Jackfrost 24-Aug-07 16:09
Re: Wow! 269 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Wow! 318 Saravuth 26-Aug-07 02:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 153 Morph 23-Aug-07 09:07
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 284 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 279 Morph 23-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 256 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 306 mephisto 23-Aug-07 12:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 12:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 304 Spiros 23-Aug-07 09:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 273 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 212 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 13:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 294 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 316 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 13:56
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 Sirfiroth 23-Aug-07 13:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 240 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:09
More fully... 321 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:53
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 222 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:08
Addendum: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 235 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 291 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 23:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 278 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 337 drrayeye 23-Aug-07 14:47
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 276 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 384 drrayeye 24-Aug-07 14:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 269 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 290 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 15:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 249 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 324 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 332 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 295 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 262 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:42
oops pls read "can't" instead of can N/T 314 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 267 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 21:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 243 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 13:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 231 Joe Atlantis 23-Aug-07 19:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 319 Warwick 24-Aug-07 17:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 347 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 17:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 280 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:11
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 307 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 331 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 319 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 284 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 309 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 276 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 325 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 278 Warwick 26-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 Broker 26-Aug-07 19:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 260 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:52
Moderator Note 315 Ghia 26-Aug-07 23:31
Re: Moderator Note 282 Warwick 29-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 329 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Moderator Note 285 Warwick 01-Sep-07 18:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 216 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 195 caugusto 24-Aug-07 21:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 262 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 284 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 281 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 315 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 280 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 244 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 19:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 280 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 279 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 20:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 256 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 20:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 313 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 20:53
More Chills... 185 Ghia 25-Aug-07 00:21
Re: More Chills... 285 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:12
Re: More Chills... 262 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 12:31
Re: More Chills... 128 P Mac 25-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 290 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 290 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 341 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 01:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 288 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 11:00
A shadow beyond the doubt 296 drew 25-Aug-07 03:06
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 280 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 03:41
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 325 drew 25-Aug-07 12:43
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 287 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 285 Saravuth 25-Aug-07 14:34
please explain 261 Spiros 25-Aug-07 14:40
Re: please explain 310 Mr. Hunter 25-Aug-07 15:48
Re: please explain 305 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 00:17
Re: please explain 287 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:11
the solution? 292 Spiros 25-Aug-07 18:53
Re: the solution? 308 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 20:49
Re: the solution? 241 Spiros 25-Aug-07 21:50
Re: the solution? 284 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 22:11
Re: the solution? 252 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 00:23
Re: the solution? 265 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 01:21
Re: the solution? 263 Dale Robert Lerch 26-Aug-07 07:47
Re: the solution? 282 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:28
Re: the solution? 313 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:37
Re: the solution? 235 Spiros 27-Aug-07 19:18
Re: the solution? 286 Gary Osborn 27-Aug-07 19:23
Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 308 Ahatmose 26-Aug-07 02:04
Re: Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 302 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 309 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 242 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 01:52
Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 358 drrayeye 26-Aug-07 20:29
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 226 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 311 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:54
Firestone 357 drrayeye 27-Aug-07 20:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 271 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 02:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 300 Ghia 27-Aug-07 03:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 288 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 236 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 05:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 285 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 06:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 294 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 07:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 307 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 295 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 14:51
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 315 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:02
Addendum ... 325 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:31
Re: Addendum ... 303 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Addendum ... 268 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:00
Re: Addendum ... 306 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 19:28
This may help, Don 279 Cesar 27-Aug-07 22:18
Re: This may help, Don 286 Ghia 27-Aug-07 23:40
Re: This may help, Don 278 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 23:59
Re: This may help, Don 298 Cesar 28-Aug-07 02:40
Re: This may help, Don 268 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 02:51
Re: This may help, Don 276 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 325 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 05:29
Re: This may help, Don 295 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 02:15
Re: This may help, Don 328 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 370 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 10:56
Re: This may help, Don 274 Cesar 28-Aug-07 21:44
The Impactor 243 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 22:17
Re: This may help, Don 221 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 11:38
Intriguing 331 Cesar 01-Sep-07 12:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 342 LonelyAngel 27-Aug-07 18:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 323 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 18:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 331 LonelyAngel 28-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 282 Deep1 28-Aug-07 18:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 254 LonelyAngel 29-Aug-07 20:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 266 Deep1 29-Aug-07 20:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 296 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 21:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 263 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 16:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 311 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 17:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 248 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 292 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 21:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 289 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 21:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 269 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 21:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 294 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 23:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 300 Morph 31-Aug-07 11:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 289 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 18:55
One major problem as I see it ... 261 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 23:07
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 310 P Mac 29-Aug-07 00:02
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 238 magisterchessmutt 29-Aug-07 00:25
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 314 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 00:33
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 304 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 02:39
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 306 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 03:04
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 343 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 03:15
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 283 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 05:24
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 233 Cesar 29-Aug-07 02:21
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 294 caugusto 29-Aug-07 04:40
Re: One major Solution? 290 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 09:56
Re: One major Solution? 348 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:47
Re: One major Solution? 261 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 00:16
Re: One major Solution? 295 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 19:24
Re: One major Solution? 322 P Mac 31-Aug-07 12:44
Re: One major Solution? 276 Richard Essame 31-Aug-07 23:39
Re: One major Solution? 280 Scott Creighton 01-Sep-07 10:25
Re: One major Solution? 248 P Mac 01-Sep-07 16:13
Re: One major Solution? 296 P Mac 02-Sep-07 00:23
Re: One major Solution? 285 Ahatmose 02-Sep-07 01:50
Or another solution... 313 drew 29-Aug-07 21:35
Re: Or another solution... 251 Jackfrost 30-Aug-07 15:46
Re: Or another solution... 245 P Mac 30-Aug-07 16:39
Re: Or another solution... 283 Jackfrost 31-Aug-07 10:55
Re: Or another solution... 310 P Mac 31-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Or another solution... 316 Richard Essame 01-Sep-07 01:57


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