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>Jon B's diagram ( if it is accurate ... has anyone checked it ??? ) is going to be a staple and great reference work on the pyramid for years to come, I wonder if he realised the enormity of his little exercise. Meanwhile ...<

I think you're going a bit over the top Don. I don't think Scott is extracting any actual data from my diagram so it only serves to illustrate the points he's making.

But as you mention accuracy the layer heights are taken directly from Petrie's figures and I'm confident that they are accurate to his results. However the relationship between the layers and the internal elements is not always as clear. I've again used Petrie's figures and he quotes heights above the base for the positions of the chambers etc. However he could not measure these directly so he derived them mathematically from his own and Smyth's measurements of angles and lengths etc.

These results have become so accepted that they form the basis of nearly every diagram you see of the inside of the Great Pyramid but they have been challenged by some authors who have pointed out some inconsistencies according to how you plot the chambers from Petrie's data. Basically if you work with his quoted angles and use trigonometry things come out slightly different than if you use his "offsets". Most of this comes from the fact that Petrie always quotes a tolerance for his figures and this is invariably ignored as you can't draw a line that varies by plus or minus 6 inches for example or an angle of plus or minus .5°. It's also difficult to show detail on a small drawing where the lines themselves are several inches thick in reality. Lehner has written about how some of the internal positions in the great Pyramid aren't known as accurately as some seem to think. He highlights differences between Maragioglio & Rinaldi's drawings and some of Petrie's for example.

There is another problem with using Petrie's layer data which he himself points out. There are some fairly wide differences between the heights of individual layers from side to side. This can be as much as 6.6 inches. Petrie measured the heights at two corners and I've used his figures for the North East which is what everyone else seems to do. But had he just measured the South West corner, for example, then the figures would be different.

Petrie's figures aren't the only ones for the layer heights and more recent measurements exist. George Goyon measured them in 1978. They appear in BIFAO (Bulletin de'l Institut Francais D'archéologie Orientale) Volume 78 and were subsequently republished in his book on the Great Pyramid. Something odd happens if you try and compare the two sets and I'm still trying to resolve some discrepancies. Though these are mainly concerned with the layers higher up above most of the internal elements. (Other earlier measurements exist such as Smyth's and Jomard's but these all have problems and are not really usable now)

Also as I pointed out to Scott when he asked if he could use my drawing the shafts are not shown accurately. I was preparing a 2D drawing to create a 3D model of the Great Pyramid and I actually plotted the shafts separately and only put them on this drawing approximately. Basically the drawing was done as preliminary to include objects that are symmetrical around the North-South axis which the shafts certainly aren't. All the internal chambers were actually built in 3D separately and then incorporated into my final model so the diagram Scott used was never intended as a final work and only put on the web after a request elsewhere. Personally I find the data for the Northern Shaft from the Queen's Chamber so ambiguous that I don't think you can derive an overall angle for it at all.

I also think that any theory based on exact values of layer heights is a non starter as these heights vary from side to side and according to who measured them. You can make general comments like "layer 35 is the second tallest" but an exact measurement isn't available and a stated tolerance is necessary. I'm happy for anyone to use my diagram but I don't, personally, agree with Scott's conclusions at all.

I haven't read through all the posts but saw a comment on the position of the Queen's Chamber floor. According to Petrie the floor is 834.4 +- .4 inches above the base. Layer 23 starts at 820.3 inches and layer 24 at 852.7 inches. In this case Petrie only quotes a .1 inch variation in the two corners.

Jon

www.egyptarchive.co.uk

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 477 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 01:41
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 262 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 03:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 297 Broker 23-Aug-07 04:15
Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 321 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 11:20
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 283 P Mac 23-Aug-07 12:17
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 329 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:34
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 372 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 312 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:28
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 317 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:30
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 283 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 21:15
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 337 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:25
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 292 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 15:36
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 305 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:16
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 308 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:22
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 319 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:45
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 270 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 275 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 293 Broker 24-Aug-07 02:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 297 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 15:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 256 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 319 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 16:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 300 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 259 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 219 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 08:36
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 283 P Mac 23-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 317 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 311 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 316 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 326 NetWorkAngel 24-Aug-07 20:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 21:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 185 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 335 P Mac 23-Aug-07 17:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 222 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 264 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:08
A bit of clarification 276 Jon B 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: A bit of clarification 231 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 337 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 mephisto 23-Aug-07 07:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 264 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 288 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 08:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 309 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 288 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 293 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 11:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 200 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:55
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 304 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 13:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 336 Sirfiroth 24-Aug-07 14:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 296 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 15:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 314 Sirfiroth 25-Aug-07 03:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 256 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 251 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 280 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 12:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 269 magisterchessmutt 24-Aug-07 12:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 313 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 262 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 331 Ghia 23-Aug-07 08:40
Wow! 402 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Wow! 328 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:06
Re: Wow! 312 Jackfrost 24-Aug-07 16:09
Re: Wow! 277 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Wow! 321 Saravuth 26-Aug-07 02:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 164 Morph 23-Aug-07 09:07
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 289 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 285 Morph 23-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 263 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 312 mephisto 23-Aug-07 12:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 368 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 12:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 308 Spiros 23-Aug-07 09:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 280 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 217 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 13:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 324 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 292 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 13:56
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 293 Sirfiroth 23-Aug-07 13:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 245 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:09
More fully... 327 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:53
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 227 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:08
Addendum: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 240 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 298 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 23:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 345 drrayeye 23-Aug-07 14:47
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 281 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 399 drrayeye 24-Aug-07 14:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 276 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 294 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 15:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 254 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 329 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 336 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 269 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:42
oops pls read "can't" instead of can N/T 329 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 273 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 21:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 292 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 247 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 13:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 236 Joe Atlantis 23-Aug-07 19:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 302 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 329 Warwick 24-Aug-07 17:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 353 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 17:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 285 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:11
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 313 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 338 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 329 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 298 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 313 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 282 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 335 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 284 Warwick 26-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 303 Broker 26-Aug-07 19:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 264 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:52
Moderator Note 320 Ghia 26-Aug-07 23:31
Re: Moderator Note 287 Warwick 29-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 335 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Moderator Note 293 Warwick 01-Sep-07 18:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 220 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 201 caugusto 24-Aug-07 21:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 275 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 294 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 286 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 334 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 291 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 251 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 19:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 285 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 283 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 20:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 261 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 20:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 326 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 20:53
More Chills... 193 Ghia 25-Aug-07 00:21
Re: More Chills... 289 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:12
Re: More Chills... 267 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 12:31
Re: More Chills... 134 P Mac 25-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 296 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 360 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 01:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 295 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 11:00
A shadow beyond the doubt 303 drew 25-Aug-07 03:06
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 285 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 03:41
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 348 drew 25-Aug-07 12:43
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 290 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 296 Saravuth 25-Aug-07 14:34
please explain 267 Spiros 25-Aug-07 14:40
Re: please explain 314 Mr. Hunter 25-Aug-07 15:48
Re: please explain 309 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 00:17
Re: please explain 294 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:11
the solution? 297 Spiros 25-Aug-07 18:53
Re: the solution? 311 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 20:49
Re: the solution? 254 Spiros 25-Aug-07 21:50
Re: the solution? 290 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 22:11
Re: the solution? 257 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 00:23
Re: the solution? 270 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 01:21
Re: the solution? 270 Dale Robert Lerch 26-Aug-07 07:47
Re: the solution? 286 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:28
Re: the solution? 316 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:37
Re: the solution? 246 Spiros 27-Aug-07 19:18
Re: the solution? 291 Gary Osborn 27-Aug-07 19:23
Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 311 Ahatmose 26-Aug-07 02:04
Re: Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 308 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 320 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 246 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 01:52
Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 369 drrayeye 26-Aug-07 20:29
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 232 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 317 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:54
Firestone 363 drrayeye 27-Aug-07 20:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 279 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 02:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 306 Ghia 27-Aug-07 03:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 293 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 248 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 05:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 289 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 306 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 06:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 07:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 314 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 300 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 14:51
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 320 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:02
Addendum ... 341 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:31
Re: Addendum ... 315 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Addendum ... 272 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:00
Re: Addendum ... 311 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 294 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 19:28
This may help, Don 284 Cesar 27-Aug-07 22:18
Re: This may help, Don 295 Ghia 27-Aug-07 23:40
Re: This may help, Don 289 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 23:59
Re: This may help, Don 302 Cesar 28-Aug-07 02:40
Re: This may help, Don 271 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 02:51
Re: This may help, Don 281 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 330 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 05:29
Re: This may help, Don 307 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 02:15
Re: This may help, Don 333 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 380 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 10:56
Re: This may help, Don 284 Cesar 28-Aug-07 21:44
The Impactor 249 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 22:17
Re: This may help, Don 225 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 11:38
Intriguing 337 Cesar 01-Sep-07 12:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 LonelyAngel 27-Aug-07 18:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 328 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 18:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 341 LonelyAngel 28-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 290 Deep1 28-Aug-07 18:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 271 LonelyAngel 29-Aug-07 20:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 272 Deep1 29-Aug-07 20:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 302 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 21:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 276 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 16:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 316 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 17:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 294 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 259 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 298 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 21:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 296 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 21:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 281 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 21:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 303 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 23:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 319 Morph 31-Aug-07 11:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 295 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 18:55
One major problem as I see it ... 266 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 23:07
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 313 P Mac 29-Aug-07 00:02
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 244 magisterchessmutt 29-Aug-07 00:25
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 319 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 00:33
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 307 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 02:39
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 312 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 03:04
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 354 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 03:15
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 290 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 05:24
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 237 Cesar 29-Aug-07 02:21
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 305 caugusto 29-Aug-07 04:40
Re: One major Solution? 294 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 09:56
Re: One major Solution? 350 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:47
Re: One major Solution? 266 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 00:16
Re: One major Solution? 304 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 19:24
Re: One major Solution? 326 P Mac 31-Aug-07 12:44
Re: One major Solution? 281 Richard Essame 31-Aug-07 23:39
Re: One major Solution? 284 Scott Creighton 01-Sep-07 10:25
Re: One major Solution? 256 P Mac 01-Sep-07 16:13
Re: One major Solution? 300 P Mac 02-Sep-07 00:23
Re: One major Solution? 289 Ahatmose 02-Sep-07 01:50
Or another solution... 320 drew 29-Aug-07 21:35
Re: Or another solution... 256 Jackfrost 30-Aug-07 15:46
Re: Or another solution... 252 P Mac 30-Aug-07 16:39
Re: Or another solution... 296 Jackfrost 31-Aug-07 10:55
Re: Or another solution... 314 P Mac 31-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Or another solution... 321 Richard Essame 01-Sep-07 01:57


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