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>Jon B's diagram ( if it is accurate ... has anyone checked it ??? ) is going to be a staple and great reference work on the pyramid for years to come, I wonder if he realised the enormity of his little exercise. Meanwhile ...<

I think you're going a bit over the top Don. I don't think Scott is extracting any actual data from my diagram so it only serves to illustrate the points he's making.

But as you mention accuracy the layer heights are taken directly from Petrie's figures and I'm confident that they are accurate to his results. However the relationship between the layers and the internal elements is not always as clear. I've again used Petrie's figures and he quotes heights above the base for the positions of the chambers etc. However he could not measure these directly so he derived them mathematically from his own and Smyth's measurements of angles and lengths etc.

These results have become so accepted that they form the basis of nearly every diagram you see of the inside of the Great Pyramid but they have been challenged by some authors who have pointed out some inconsistencies according to how you plot the chambers from Petrie's data. Basically if you work with his quoted angles and use trigonometry things come out slightly different than if you use his "offsets". Most of this comes from the fact that Petrie always quotes a tolerance for his figures and this is invariably ignored as you can't draw a line that varies by plus or minus 6 inches for example or an angle of plus or minus .5°. It's also difficult to show detail on a small drawing where the lines themselves are several inches thick in reality. Lehner has written about how some of the internal positions in the great Pyramid aren't known as accurately as some seem to think. He highlights differences between Maragioglio & Rinaldi's drawings and some of Petrie's for example.

There is another problem with using Petrie's layer data which he himself points out. There are some fairly wide differences between the heights of individual layers from side to side. This can be as much as 6.6 inches. Petrie measured the heights at two corners and I've used his figures for the North East which is what everyone else seems to do. But had he just measured the South West corner, for example, then the figures would be different.

Petrie's figures aren't the only ones for the layer heights and more recent measurements exist. George Goyon measured them in 1978. They appear in BIFAO (Bulletin de'l Institut Francais D'archéologie Orientale) Volume 78 and were subsequently republished in his book on the Great Pyramid. Something odd happens if you try and compare the two sets and I'm still trying to resolve some discrepancies. Though these are mainly concerned with the layers higher up above most of the internal elements. (Other earlier measurements exist such as Smyth's and Jomard's but these all have problems and are not really usable now)

Also as I pointed out to Scott when he asked if he could use my drawing the shafts are not shown accurately. I was preparing a 2D drawing to create a 3D model of the Great Pyramid and I actually plotted the shafts separately and only put them on this drawing approximately. Basically the drawing was done as preliminary to include objects that are symmetrical around the North-South axis which the shafts certainly aren't. All the internal chambers were actually built in 3D separately and then incorporated into my final model so the diagram Scott used was never intended as a final work and only put on the web after a request elsewhere. Personally I find the data for the Northern Shaft from the Queen's Chamber so ambiguous that I don't think you can derive an overall angle for it at all.

I also think that any theory based on exact values of layer heights is a non starter as these heights vary from side to side and according to who measured them. You can make general comments like "layer 35 is the second tallest" but an exact measurement isn't available and a stated tolerance is necessary. I'm happy for anyone to use my diagram but I don't, personally, agree with Scott's conclusions at all.

I haven't read through all the posts but saw a comment on the position of the Queen's Chamber floor. According to Petrie the floor is 834.4 +- .4 inches above the base. Layer 23 starts at 820.3 inches and layer 24 at 852.7 inches. In this case Petrie only quotes a .1 inch variation in the two corners.

Jon

www.egyptarchive.co.uk

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 548 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 01:41
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 03:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 330 Broker 23-Aug-07 04:15
Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 339 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 11:20
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 326 P Mac 23-Aug-07 12:17
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 367 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:34
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 406 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 353 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:28
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 352 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:30
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 324 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 21:15
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 370 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:25
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 331 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 15:36
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 342 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:16
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 346 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:22
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 355 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:45
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 301 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 310 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 334 Broker 24-Aug-07 02:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 344 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 15:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 296 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 365 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 16:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 306 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 255 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 08:36
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 307 P Mac 23-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 353 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 367 NetWorkAngel 24-Aug-07 20:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 339 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 21:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 226 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 335 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 371 P Mac 23-Aug-07 17:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 269 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 330 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:08
A bit of clarification 310 Jon B 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: A bit of clarification 271 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 370 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 393 mephisto 23-Aug-07 07:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 329 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 08:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 342 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 329 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 350 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 11:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 241 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:55
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 339 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 13:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 374 Sirfiroth 24-Aug-07 14:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 328 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 15:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 362 Sirfiroth 25-Aug-07 03:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 282 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 312 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 12:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 315 magisterchessmutt 24-Aug-07 12:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 354 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 340 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 298 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 367 Ghia 23-Aug-07 08:40
Wow! 435 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Wow! 364 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:06
Re: Wow! 348 Jackfrost 24-Aug-07 16:09
Re: Wow! 318 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Wow! 360 Saravuth 26-Aug-07 02:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 205 Morph 23-Aug-07 09:07
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 328 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 319 Morph 23-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 294 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 354 mephisto 23-Aug-07 12:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 411 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 12:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 344 Spiros 23-Aug-07 09:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 321 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 252 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 13:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 341 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 326 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 13:56
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 326 Sirfiroth 23-Aug-07 13:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 281 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:09
More fully... 366 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:53
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 263 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:08
Addendum: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 273 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 337 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 23:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 325 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 384 drrayeye 23-Aug-07 14:47
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 323 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 445 drrayeye 24-Aug-07 14:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 320 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 336 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 15:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 296 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 364 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 368 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 344 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 303 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:42
oops pls read "can't" instead of can N/T 368 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 297 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 21:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 326 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 290 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 13:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 276 Joe Atlantis 23-Aug-07 19:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 341 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 369 Warwick 24-Aug-07 17:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 402 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 17:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 320 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:11
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 345 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 371 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 374 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 338 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 347 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 318 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 367 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 322 Warwick 26-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 334 Broker 26-Aug-07 19:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 327 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:52
Moderator Note 365 Ghia 26-Aug-07 23:31
Re: Moderator Note 332 Warwick 29-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 386 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Moderator Note 329 Warwick 01-Sep-07 18:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 256 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 231 caugusto 24-Aug-07 21:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 308 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 340 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 327 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 386 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 333 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 282 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 19:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 349 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 318 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 20:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 297 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 20:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 20:53
More Chills... 257 Ghia 25-Aug-07 00:21
Re: More Chills... 321 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:12
Re: More Chills... 303 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 12:31
Re: More Chills... 171 P Mac 25-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 332 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 407 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 01:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 339 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 11:00
A shadow beyond the doubt 357 drew 25-Aug-07 03:06
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 327 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 03:41
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 399 drew 25-Aug-07 12:43
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 323 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 343 Saravuth 25-Aug-07 14:34
please explain 307 Spiros 25-Aug-07 14:40
Re: please explain 332 Mr. Hunter 25-Aug-07 15:48
Re: please explain 344 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 00:17
Re: please explain 333 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:11
the solution? 336 Spiros 25-Aug-07 18:53
Re: the solution? 356 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 20:49
Re: the solution? 289 Spiros 25-Aug-07 21:50
Re: the solution? 326 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 22:11
Re: the solution? 293 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 00:23
Re: the solution? 305 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 01:21
Re: the solution? 311 Dale Robert Lerch 26-Aug-07 07:47
Re: the solution? 335 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:28
Re: the solution? 349 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:37
Re: the solution? 283 Spiros 27-Aug-07 19:18
Re: the solution? 328 Gary Osborn 27-Aug-07 19:23
Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 345 Ahatmose 26-Aug-07 02:04
Re: Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 341 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 362 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 281 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 01:52
Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 407 drrayeye 26-Aug-07 20:29
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 265 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 356 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:54
Firestone 403 drrayeye 27-Aug-07 20:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 312 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 02:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 Ghia 27-Aug-07 03:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 328 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 290 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 05:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 326 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 345 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 06:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 338 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 07:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 367 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 338 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 14:51
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 358 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:02
Addendum ... 384 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:31
Re: Addendum ... 350 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Addendum ... 307 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:00
Re: Addendum ... 346 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 336 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 19:28
This may help, Don 320 Cesar 27-Aug-07 22:18
Re: This may help, Don 330 Ghia 27-Aug-07 23:40
Re: This may help, Don 338 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 23:59
Re: This may help, Don 338 Cesar 28-Aug-07 02:40
Re: This may help, Don 309 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 02:51
Re: This may help, Don 320 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 371 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 05:29
Re: This may help, Don 349 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 02:15
Re: This may help, Don 366 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 419 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 10:56
Re: This may help, Don 322 Cesar 28-Aug-07 21:44
The Impactor 295 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 22:17
Re: This may help, Don 256 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 11:38
Intriguing 378 Cesar 01-Sep-07 12:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 406 LonelyAngel 27-Aug-07 18:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 361 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 18:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 373 LonelyAngel 28-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 323 Deep1 28-Aug-07 18:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 311 LonelyAngel 29-Aug-07 20:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 321 Deep1 29-Aug-07 20:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 338 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 21:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 322 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 16:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 17:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 330 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 300 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 336 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 21:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 328 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 21:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 315 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 21:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 350 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 23:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 351 Morph 31-Aug-07 11:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 339 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 18:55
One major problem as I see it ... 302 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 23:07
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 355 P Mac 29-Aug-07 00:02
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 283 magisterchessmutt 29-Aug-07 00:25
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 358 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 00:33
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 344 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 02:39
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 351 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 03:04
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 380 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 03:15
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 329 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 05:24
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 272 Cesar 29-Aug-07 02:21
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 344 caugusto 29-Aug-07 04:40
Re: One major Solution? 327 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 09:56
Re: One major Solution? 386 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:47
Re: One major Solution? 299 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 00:16
Re: One major Solution? 344 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 19:24
Re: One major Solution? 380 P Mac 31-Aug-07 12:44
Re: One major Solution? 325 Richard Essame 31-Aug-07 23:39
Re: One major Solution? 320 Scott Creighton 01-Sep-07 10:25
Re: One major Solution? 293 P Mac 01-Sep-07 16:13
Re: One major Solution? 332 P Mac 02-Sep-07 00:23
Re: One major Solution? 330 Ahatmose 02-Sep-07 01:50
Or another solution... 361 drew 29-Aug-07 21:35
Re: Or another solution... 287 Jackfrost 30-Aug-07 15:46
Re: Or another solution... 287 P Mac 30-Aug-07 16:39
Re: Or another solution... 324 Jackfrost 31-Aug-07 10:55
Re: Or another solution... 367 P Mac 31-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Or another solution... 352 Richard Essame 01-Sep-07 01:57


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