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Let’s try and nail this invader/change of language business once and for all.

We might conveniently start with two cases involving English-speakers and with which even my sternest critic (Doug) would agree:
1. The English invasion of North America
2. The English invasion of the Indian sub-continent
The first led to a language change and the second did not.

Now we’ll enter all the caveats that waste so much time:
Yes, it’s true that there are still pockets of Native American language-speaking in North America
Yes, it’s true that plenty of people in the Indian sub-continent can speak English, some even as a first language
Yes, it’s true that English has picked up various Hindi, Urdhu etc loan-words
Yes, it’s true that all the languages of the Indian sub-continent have picked up various English loan-words
Yes, it’s true that there are slight variations in North American English, English English and English as she is spoke in India

NEVERTHELESS it is an observable fact that the language got changed in North America and it remained static (to use Ishmael’s term) in India.

OK, are we all together so far? Excellent.

My book says that Model 2 (languages remaining unchanged when a country is occupied by invaders speaking a different language) is the norm.
Orthodoxy also says that Model 2 is the norm.

Where we take issue is that when Orthodoxy requires a Creation Myth i.e. when it requires an explanation for the origin of a language spoken by a particular people, it sometimes unwarrantably slips in a Model 1 (language changed by invaders).

I point out that this has happened in the case of Britain (re the Anglo-Saxons) and the French, Italians, Spanish and Portuguese (re the Romans).

[Doug: the only reason that the Romans are left off the list is that it appears in the first chapter of my book, dealing with Anglo-Saxon anomalies in the ORTHODOX account of history. Although the Romans fit in to the table just as well as do all the other invaders, I do not deal with their case until Chapter 3, and therefore could not include them.]

You are all free now to consider dispassionately the evidence for my thesis as against the orthodox thesis. However, I am obliged to point out that in matters of creation myths (especially where your own is concerned) it is sometimes difficult to be dispassionate. Where the creation myth is also an academic paradigm taught to you at a tender age by authority figures, it is doubly difficult.

But do try.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
AOM: Anomoly One 137 AOM-Presenter 03-Apr-03 16:39
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 79 jameske 03-Apr-03 20:02
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 79 Doug 03-Apr-03 22:44
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 104 M J Harper 03-Apr-03 23:39
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 79 Nobody 04-Apr-03 00:16
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 76 M J Harper 04-Apr-03 00:29
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 106 Nobody 04-Apr-03 01:07
Cymri 195 nonconformist 04-Apr-03 04:59
Re: AOM: Anomaly One 93 nonconformist 04-Apr-03 03:31
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 97 M J Harper 04-Apr-03 04:17
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 108 nonconformist 04-Apr-03 05:20
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 93 Doug 04-Apr-03 06:47
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 122 HectorChico 04-Apr-03 10:26
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 96 M J Harper 04-Apr-03 12:56
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 112 DPCrisp 04-Apr-03 13:27
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 107 HectorChico 04-Apr-03 14:58
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 113 M J Harper 04-Apr-03 16:30
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 69 AOM-Presenter 04-Apr-03 16:31
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 130 nonconformist 05-Apr-03 02:15
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 117 AOM-Presenter 05-Apr-03 04:57
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 126 nonconformist 05-Apr-03 08:56
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 116 M J Harper 07-Apr-03 02:24
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 96 nonconformist 07-Apr-03 07:17
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 108 AOM-Presenter 07-Apr-03 15:00
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 72 nonconformist 08-Apr-03 00:27
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 99 M J Harper 08-Apr-03 01:01
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 116 nonconformist 08-Apr-03 03:50
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 94 DPCrisp 08-Apr-03 13:52
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 65 M J Harper 08-Apr-03 15:05
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 102 nonconformist 10-Apr-03 02:10
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 144 stickler 10-Apr-03 10:09
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 99 DPCrisp 10-Apr-03 10:59
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 88 stickler 10-Apr-03 12:32
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 116 AOM-Presenter 10-Apr-03 16:01
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 119 DPCrisp 10-Apr-03 16:47
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 116 stickler 10-Apr-03 17:26
Spellinge 112 AOM-Presenter 10-Apr-03 15:41
Re: Spellinge 106 stickler 10-Apr-03 15:50
Pronounciation 103 AOM-Presenter 10-Apr-03 16:19
Re: Pronounciation 110 stickler 10-Apr-03 17:33
Re: Pronounciation 108 AOM-Presenter 10-Apr-03 18:35
Re: Pronounciation 121 DPCrisp 11-Apr-03 09:39
Re: Spellinge 87 DPCrisp 10-Apr-03 16:34
Re: Spellinge 131 stickler 10-Apr-03 17:34
Re: Spellinge 104 DPCrisp 11-Apr-03 09:47
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 105 M J Harper 10-Apr-03 14:29
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 105 AOM-Presenter 10-Apr-03 15:16
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 93 DPCrisp 11-Apr-03 11:35
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 89 nonconformist 11-Apr-03 22:19
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 110 nonconformist 11-Apr-03 22:33
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 94 Doug 12-Apr-03 08:21
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 84 Doug 08-Apr-03 17:20
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 102 M J Harper 08-Apr-03 18:10
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 86 Doug 08-Apr-03 21:23
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 84 M J Harper 08-Apr-03 22:23
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 106 M J Harper 10-Apr-03 14:10
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 86 stickler 10-Apr-03 15:39
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 81 M J Harper 10-Apr-03 16:30
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 107 stickler 10-Apr-03 17:52
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 81 M J Harper 11-Apr-03 22:37
Re: AOM: Anomoly One 110 nonconformist 12-Apr-03 03:46


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