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thinkitover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, it's not as if I think cladking is using the
> right arguments to try to dispel notions about
> superstitious ancients (I'm not sure what the
> right argument would actually be or I'd be
> flinging it I suppose) but I'm not sure these are
> the right arguments to counter with either.

I agree but there are a limited number of tools for me to use in the argument. I've discovered the meaning in the ancient words by solving word meanings in context. The problem here is that Ancient Language didn't work like our language and this is why Egyptologists can translate and not understand it. They translate it in terms of the "book of the dead" and they they read it like it's English. Meaning is destroyed when this is done.

What Ancient Language means is exactly what it says but what it says is so incredible it's hard to believe. Much of it is incomprehensible because we don't understand it but then it will say something like "bring me the boat that flies up and alights" that people can't believe was meant literally even though it apparently was. We mistranslate large numbers of words, misunderstand how the language was formatted, and we don't notice that the vocabulary was wholly dissimilar to our own.

All I can do is to use their words to aid in reverse engineering the pyramid (stones were pulled straight up one step at a time) and point out the inconsistencies in Egyptological beliefs. These inconsistencies involve things like their beliefs that the Egyptians were highly superstitious and moribund but they had no words that meant "belief". Egyptologists believe the Egyptians were just like us but they had no words that meant "thought". Egyptologists believe that the Egyptians thought just like us but they had no taxonomic words. Egyptologists believe the Egyptians learned just like us but they had no reductionistic words. More than 80% of the words in modern languages didn't exist and had no referent in Ancient Language. They didn't have "abstractions" per se (as we read it it appears they did) because every word in their language was representative rather than symbolic. Instead of trying to understand me or talk to me they turn their back on me, the facts, and now even the evidence that I am correct; the predicted thermal anomaly. Instead of arguing they try to straighten me out by repetition of their beliefs that pyramids are tombs built by changeless and superstitious bumpkins just like us who dragged them up ramps and then hid all traces of ramps.

I'm left to talk about what's real rather than what can be seen by believers in the power of ancient superstition. I KNOW for a fact that superstition has no power at all and it appears that ancient people had no superstition at all. They didn't even have the words to conceptualize what wasn't real. They lacked the luxury of beliefs. They understood their world in terms of their limited knowledge just like all animals and not in terms ofg their beliefs and models like modern people who speak modern languages.

> I think cladking has a very good sense if even
> intuitively that religious writings might be
> something other than a bunch of pointless,
> superstitious rot, just as I like to think I have
> myself, even if they're not much good at face
> value.

The only writing that survives is the Pyramid Texts and parts of the Coffin Texts and most of this is just the silly little rituals that accompanied the ceremonies performed at the various ascension ceremonies of the kings. It would be embarrassing for the pyramid builders to know this is the only thing that survived but it is. What makes this so interesting is not only the clues about how they built pyramids but that the language is formatted in terms of their knowledge, their science. To understand any sentence you must understand the science and formatting. It's very simple but it's wholly alien to the way we speak and write. They were the "words of natural phenomena".

> It occurs to me to at least try to point out that
> to try to paint an entire people with the same
> brush must be precarious at best. Does having
> three churches within five blocks of my home
> actually tell you that I subscribe to any of them?

And this is exactly much of the reason Egyptologists got everything wrong. Almost all artefacts and all writing came out of cemeteries. This is sample bias of the highest order! Egyptologists believe the people were moribund, obsessed by death, and everything is a grave with only magical and religious significance.

> For that matter, does indigenous people continuing
> to hand down folktales and oral traditions mean
> that anyone "in the know" interprets them in any
> "gospel" sense?

This process is quite visible when it is traced from the beginning in the Pyramid Texts and then down through the Coffin Texts, the "book of the dead" and the Bible. We look at it backward so we miss the important changes from language to language and the onset of modern beliefs.

> I suppose for purposes of debate this eventually
> begs the question whether anyone anyone being so
> dismissive of cladking affords room for any
> ancient Egyptians or Greeks or Romans to have been
> atheists?

This is a point that people are missing. Even if it were true that the great pyramid builders were just like us the fact is that we aren't all atheists, theists, or believe the question is relevant. Where's the writing of these other people? Where are their tombs? Why are their no words of belief or thought?

> It also occurs to me ask that if - okay, say this
> language has only 1000 words in it - but if they
> were so deeply superstitious that religious ideas
> held such an incredible amount of sway in their
> societies, why wouldn't words like "faith"
> or "belief" be part of their limited lexicon?

!

> Wouldn't it seem like if they were so deeply
> devout, words like that would be important
> enough to make it into their vocabulary?

!

> Not that I think that will settle the matter, but
> maybe it does seem worth asking?

!

Thanks for the post and thoughts. I'm sure I'll steal some of it. ;)

Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 760 Thanos5150 04-Jan-20 17:22
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 178 cladking 04-Jan-20 19:37
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 139 thinkitover 04-Jan-20 23:49
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 126 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 00:46
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 140 cladking 05-Jan-20 02:39
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 112 Warwick 06-Jan-20 20:55
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 109 Warwick 06-Jan-20 21:16
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 92 cladking 06-Jan-20 22:45
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 98 Warwick 07-Jan-20 18:30
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 82 cladking 07-Jan-20 20:10
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 102 cladking 06-Jan-20 22:49
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 83 Warwick 07-Jan-20 18:24
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 96 cladking 07-Jan-20 20:33
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 84 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 18:37
Snap! :) 83 Warwick 08-Jan-20 18:47
Re: Snap! :) 81 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 19:02
Re: Snap! :) 83 Warwick 08-Jan-20 19:14
Re: Snap! :) 95 cladking 08-Jan-20 19:56
Re: Snap! :) 74 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 20:23
Re: Snap! :) 74 cladking 08-Jan-20 21:38
Re: Snap! :) 76 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 23:06
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 80 cladking 08-Jan-20 19:50
Stop avoiding the questions Cladking 88 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 20:37
Oops made a mistake on the number of words for English 66 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 23:24
Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 84 thinkitover 15-Jan-20 06:12
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 72 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 07:00
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 64 cladking 15-Jan-20 14:38
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 70 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 16:25
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 69 cladking 15-Jan-20 17:38
...and Cladking runs off 61 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 17:52
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 74 Corpuscles 16-Jan-20 08:03
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 106 cladking 16-Jan-20 14:27
Get Comfortable. 85 cladking 16-Jan-20 14:50
It's simple all right 72 Warwick 16-Jan-20 20:32
Hieroglyphs have never been translated but I make my own translations from those same fake translations?????? 66 Hanslune 16-Jan-20 21:56
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 59 Hanslune 16-Jan-20 21:54
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 70 Warwick 16-Jan-20 20:27
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 60 Hanslune 16-Jan-20 22:01
Re: Would You Like to Borrow A Comfy Chair and a Soft Cushion? 72 cladking 15-Jan-20 17:56
making up dates 69 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 18:15
Re: making up dates 67 cladking 15-Jan-20 18:52
Re: making up dates 78 Warwick 15-Jan-20 19:05
Re: making up dates 65 cladking 15-Jan-20 19:22
Re: making up dates 64 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 19:25
Re: making up dates 61 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 19:22
How to demonstrate that your ideas are based on stuff you made up - by Cladking 60 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 19:20
So ancient goofy language is all the same? 59 Hanslune 16-Jan-20 22:05
What Purpose Does Myth Serve? 80 thinkitover 09-Jan-20 01:33
Re: What Purpose Does Myth Serve? 79 cladking 09-Jan-20 02:07
Re: What Purpose Does Myth Serve? 84 cladking 09-Jan-20 02:16
Re: What Purpose Does Myth Serve? 70 Warwick 09-Jan-20 19:46
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 81 Warwick 08-Jan-20 18:45
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 75 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 19:09
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 87 cladking 08-Jan-20 20:14
Cladking avoiding the questions that destroys his assumptions 77 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 20:27
so, not just Egyptologists but, 82 Warwick 14-Jan-20 19:23
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 74 cladking 14-Jan-20 20:26
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 76 Warwick 14-Jan-20 20:32
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 84 cladking 14-Jan-20 21:02
Projection 71 Warwick 15-Jan-20 18:17
Re: Projection 60 Hanslune 16-Jan-20 21:51
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 67 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 05:52
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 76 cladking 15-Jan-20 14:49
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 62 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 16:33
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 59 cladking 15-Jan-20 17:17
No Gods means belief 61 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 17:59
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 73 Warwick 15-Jan-20 18:34
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 76 cladking 15-Jan-20 19:36
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 70 Warwick 15-Jan-20 19:57
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 86 Hanslune 16-Jan-20 22:07
It's a common fault 75 Warwick 18-Jan-20 21:01
Re: It's a common fault 78 Hanslune 19-Jan-20 00:12
Re: It's a common fault 71 cladking 20-Jan-20 03:14
Re: It's a common fault 61 Hanslune 20-Jan-20 03:42
Re: It's a common fault 84 Corpuscles 20-Jan-20 03:59
Re: It's a common fault 64 Sirfiroth 20-Jan-20 17:01
Re: It's a common fault 62 Hanslune 20-Jan-20 17:37
Re: It's a common fault 63 Warwick 20-Jan-20 17:21
Re: It's a common fault 63 Hanslune 20-Jan-20 17:30
Re: so, not just Egyptologists but, 66 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 05:55
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 76 cladking 08-Jan-20 22:04
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 73 cladking 08-Jan-20 20:10
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 67 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 20:25
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 76 cladking 08-Jan-20 21:44
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 72 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 23:01
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 93 cladking 08-Jan-20 23:22
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 82 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 23:26
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 80 Warwick 09-Jan-20 19:48
Are you kidding us or what? 90 Warwick 09-Jan-20 19:50
Re: Are you kidding us or what? 82 cladking 09-Jan-20 20:26
We know who we are talking too 91 Hanslune 09-Jan-20 20:42
Re: Are you kidding us or what? 75 Hanslune 09-Jan-20 20:36
sorry for the delay 83 Warwick 14-Jan-20 19:16
Re: sorry for the delay 84 cladking 14-Jan-20 21:11
Sorry you are off topic 74 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 06:02
Re: sorry for the delay 70 Warwick 15-Jan-20 18:28
Re: sorry for the delay 63 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 19:24
Re: sorry for the delay 70 Hanslune 15-Jan-20 05:59
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 85 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 19:06
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 99 cladking 08-Jan-20 20:16
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 87 Hanslune 08-Jan-20 20:24
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 98 Corpuscles 09-Jan-20 03:29
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 116 Thanos5150 09-Jan-20 04:26
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 110 seasmith 09-Jan-20 05:43
Re: The Book of Two Ways-Coffin Texts Older Than Believed 113 Warwick 20-Jan-20 19:22


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