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Open mind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many interesting points.
>
> Corpuscles Wrote:
>
> "Limestone is not entirely a product of
> pressure..."
>
> - Interesting that the softest, (marble), would
> be the most reliant on pressure, if that's what
> you were saying there. If so, its counter
> intuitive.


They are roughly equivalent it has to do with the chemistry.
I suggest you google that question.
Yes marble has to be exposed to heat, but such likely provided by crust folding pressure
>
> I'm in Canada btw, and spent many years rock
> climbing on our natural limestone escarpments,
> (which I just identified as dolomite), as well as
> many other places throughout North America. Even
> on my local harder version of limestone, the hand
> holds of popular routes become very polished and
> smooth just from hand friction. More so than any
> other rock I've climbed on, (including Granite,
> Sandstone, Basalt, volcanic tuff, quartz
> monzonite, etc.)

You are braver than I. Hang on tight!
>
> "Davidovits standard for limestone based
> geopolymer concrete is 90 MPA and he claims they
> have achieved 150 MPA."
>
> - Is that modern man made today, or is that
> referring to ancient identified geopolymer
> megalithic limestone?

Of course that is modern. With the advantages of detailed equipment to adjust the recipe.
I do not know (without reading papers) what the parameters of hardness from the megalithic sites were.
But an interesting question. I might try and find the analysis tables.
>
> "In slabs they still sometimes put in steel
> reinforcement but Geopolymer has extraordinary
> tensile strength already"
>
> - I realize, but for my cost efficiency
> presumptions, its probably cheaper to add rebar
> and less material to maintain tensile strength.

The added material is typically 3%. The rebar is mainly to overcome Building code standards imposed rather than a major need.
>
> "You are touching on some areas which restricts
> many from accepting/ considering the possibility
> of geopolymer use by Ancients. "
>
> - Good point. But coming from a perspective of
> the place holder term of 'magic stone softening',
> and reconsidering the geopolymer approach,
> strictly from the merits of the chemical analysis,
> I find the weakest part of geopolymer theory is
> the suggestion it was treated, produced, and
> worked with like modern day cement, and the
> remains don't support it to me, (lack of repeating
> patterns, simplistic brick shape vs polygonal,
> pillowed, etc.).

In regards to much of it, think of it as a plasticine like render. Have you ever cement rendered an old brick wall?
I do not think much of it involved molds.

You watched vid 4 - Egypt pyramids
The draw back stated by Davidovits in regard to the non associated magnetic survey was the lack of samples. Often they only get a small scrape not a core drill of a block which may have been mainly entirely natural stone , which was supplemented by some trowelled on render.

On the rock softening conjecture.

Quote
Interesting fact
Copper smelters produce around one tonne of sulphuric acid for each tonne of copper concentrate. * Copper miners using the solvent extraction electro-winning process need around 3.0-3.5 tonnes of sulphuric acid to turn ore into one tonne of copper metal.

Try some on a block of granite and stand back and watch! ;-)
>
> I get the impression people think the repeating
> pattern of a brick is some kind of advancement,
> but the brick is stupid easy. Its those polygonal
> shapes that's next level. If I judge the ancients
> from their polygonal systems, with the assumption
> they had a concrete system that lead to that, then
> they had to have spent a LONG time with bricks
> first before getting there, and I can't see enough
> of that progression evidence.

Well in places like Mesopotamia and Egypt they did have lots of experience with brick (mud/clay bricks)

However, as you have been following, along lets talk "Sacsayhuaman" even though not intended in the thread OP.
You will have noted the main bulk of the walls are comprised of small stone and dirt (likely clay enriched) and has a shell of polygonal some very big blocks. You will also have noted a number of places where simply smaller stones are stacked on top of such. The problem with a stack of smaller stones is that with a shake if one stone is dislodged then an avalanche can occur. So if "they" had ability to mimic a geopolymer mix, then they smothered a group of smaller stones binding them together to form a larger less likely to move stone. They also shaped that group in 3 dimensions curves front to back, top to bottom, and the malleable external substance allowed a cut separation (or maybe a flax biodegradable mat) to create intricate close joins to create artificial movement joints. You know - the lines on your concrete are there so that if the concrete expands ,it will crack at that point, not in the middle in a crazed manner.

Mayans Inca whoever etc - Not very high tech, BUT extremely smart!

>
> So with a mind to reverse engineering from what I
> see, if it WAS geopolymer manufactured rock, then
> there had to be some factor about it, that limited
> it to a very thick viscosity like clay at its
> loosest. At least then I could see the challenge
> with mold making because you can't force thick
> clay into complex shapes. It would be just easier
> to approach wall building as blobs with cleaned up
> faces. But then you gotta wonder about those
> knobs.

No molds necessary in most cases.
Best mix for modern rendering If no time then just approx. at 3.45 mark for 15secs

The ancients seem to have applied a very thick coat. Sometimes it was too wet so they had to prop it at the bottom causing dents and bulges in the finished render.
Yep I know I seem crazy - likely true! ;-)

>
> I don't know. Alot hurts the geopolymer idea if
> its presented as cement. I think that part of its
> association needs to be refined and clarified to
> more accurately reflect the actual archeological
> remains.

Have you watched Davidovits vid of making it? You could easily do it yourself especially if you hang off rocks at dizzy heights.

I probably should get off this hobby horse soon?
Cheers

Edit in italic



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08-Jan-20 22:17 by Corpuscles.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 1731 Corpuscles 21-Dec-19 17:24
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 287 Open mind 22-Dec-19 02:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 256 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 05:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 227 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:06
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 173 thinkitover 23-Dec-19 10:05
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 283 ocka 22-Dec-19 09:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 217 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 18:01
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 211 Thanos5150 23-Dec-19 16:53
Re: Tiahuanaco architect named 174 molder 23-Dec-19 22:16
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 180 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 23:44
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 173 Thanos5150 24-Dec-19 16:47
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 164 Hanslune 25-Dec-19 01:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 214 Thanos5150 25-Dec-19 02:43
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 170 Hanslune 27-Dec-19 23:09
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 174 Thanos5150 28-Dec-19 17:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 175 Corpuscles 29-Dec-19 06:33
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 159 Merrell 29-Dec-19 14:38
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 159 Corpuscles 29-Dec-19 20:31
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 169 Merrell 29-Dec-19 23:54
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 147 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 00:03
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 146 Merrell 01-Jan-20 10:45
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 143 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 18:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 153 Open mind 31-Dec-19 19:33
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 135 Merrell 31-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 168 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 00:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 138 Open mind 01-Jan-20 03:02
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 224 Thanos5150 01-Jan-20 04:08
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 153 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 05:51
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 172 Thanos5150 01-Jan-20 06:59
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 173 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 19:40
Basalt Pavers 152 Barbelo 01-Jan-20 21:33
Re: Basalt Pavers 155 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 23:01
Re: Basalt Pavers 146 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 03:36
Re: Basalt Pavers 161 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 05:42
Re: Basalt Pavers 147 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 06:41
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 160 Thanos5150 02-Jan-20 02:17
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 177 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 05:03
Basalt Pillar 166 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 07:15
Re: Basalt Pillar 148 Open mind 02-Jan-20 15:43
Re: Basalt Pillar 225 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 19:06
Re: Basalt Pillar 157 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 21:13
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 186 Thanos5150 02-Jan-20 18:08
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 181 Merrell 02-Jan-20 18:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 206 Martin Stower 03-Jan-20 11:15
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 160 Corpuscles 03-Jan-20 20:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 156 Merrell 03-Jan-20 21:45
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 152 Corpuscles 03-Jan-20 23:23
Sacsayhuaman 161 Barbelo 04-Jan-20 02:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 160 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 03:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 155 Thanos5150 04-Jan-20 03:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 156 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 05:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 200 Barbelo 04-Jan-20 11:16
Re: Sacsayhuaman 148 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 15:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 151 Barbelo 05-Jan-20 20:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 139 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 23:55
Re: Sacsayhuaman 142 Corpuscles 05-Jan-20 21:41
Re: Sacsayhuaman 146 Barbelo 05-Jan-20 23:40
Re: Sacsayhuaman 148 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 23:59
Re: Sacsayhuaman 141 Open mind 06-Jan-20 01:08
Re: Sacsayhuaman 137 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 02:29
Re: Sacsayhuaman 144 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 03:50
Re: Sacsayhuaman 138 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 04:29
Re: Sacsayhuaman 149 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 05:10
Re: Sacsayhuaman 156 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 05:47
Re: Sacsayhuaman 176 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 16:53
Re: Sacsayhuaman 144 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 19:06
The Limestone Puddle 137 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 21:27
Re: Sacsayhuaman 137 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 21:44
Re: Sacsayhuaman 138 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 22:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 158 Thanos5150 07-Jan-20 17:01
Re: Sacsayhuaman 137 Corpuscles 07-Jan-20 21:48
Re: Sacsayhuaman 140 Open mind 06-Jan-20 21:07
Re: Sacsayhuaman 137 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 21:30
Re: Sacsayhuaman 133 Open mind 07-Jan-20 20:43
Re: Sacsayhuaman 132 Open mind 06-Jan-20 13:44
Re: Sacsayhuaman 147 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 11:07
Re: Sacsayhuaman 135 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 05:16
Re: Sacsayhuaman 138 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 10:36
Re: Sacsayhuaman 140 seasmith 06-Jan-20 14:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 134 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 20:46
Re: Sacsayhuaman 130 Open mind 06-Jan-20 16:41
Re: Sacsayhuaman 131 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 21:12
Re: Sacsayhuaman 138 Open mind 07-Jan-20 15:05
Re: Sacsayhuaman 150 Corpuscles 07-Jan-20 21:25
Nonsensical or Unnecessary? 134 Barbelo 07-Jan-20 23:51
Re: Nonsensical or Unnecessary? 153 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 01:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 134 Open mind 08-Jan-20 00:36
Re: Sacsayhuaman 136 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 00:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 140 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 01:12
Re: Sacsayhuaman 128 Open mind 08-Jan-20 02:06
Re: Sacsayhuaman 136 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 03:20
Re: Sacsayhuaman 155 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 07:05
Re: Sacsayhuaman 126 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 12:01
Re: Sacsayhuaman 133 Open mind 08-Jan-20 16:42
Re: Sacsayhuaman 132 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 18:24
Re: Sacsayhuaman 126 Open mind 08-Jan-20 20:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 129 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 21:44
LImestone vs Limestone 124 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 22:40
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 145 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 23:47
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 134 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 01:57
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 143 Corpuscles 09-Jan-20 03:09
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 132 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 04:07
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 128 Open mind 09-Jan-20 16:06
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 118 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 20:49
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 119 Open mind 09-Jan-20 20:58
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 140 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 21:20
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 120 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:12
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 126 Corpuscles 09-Jan-20 17:15
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 130 Open mind 09-Jan-20 15:25
Re:Sacsayhuaman 131 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 07:00
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 120 Open mind 10-Jan-20 13:15
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 246 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 14:34
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 117 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:47
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 126 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:58
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 117 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 21:07
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 112 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 21:00
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 146 Thanos5150 09-Jan-20 01:44
Tombomachay 139 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 06:25
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 128 Barbelo 10-Jan-20 07:30
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 208 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 11:41
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 149 Barbelo 11-Jan-20 05:25
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 140 Corpuscles 12-Jan-20 01:24
Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 139 Barbelo 12-Jan-20 12:11
Re: Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 144 Corpuscles 12-Jan-20 20:56
Re: Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 158 Open mind 13-Jan-20 16:19
Re: Sacsayhuaman 123 Open mind 08-Jan-20 23:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 134 Open mind 08-Jan-20 14:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 129 Merrell 08-Jan-20 17:57
On the fence... 133 Racho 08-Jan-20 04:51
Re: On the fence... 132 Open mind 08-Jan-20 15:24
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 155 Merrell 04-Jan-20 09:04
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 145 Corpuscles 05-Jan-20 09:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 151 Martin Stower 03-Jan-20 23:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 140 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 00:34
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 124 Open mind 05-Jan-20 16:19
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 142 Open mind 02-Jan-20 03:37
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 147 Merrell 01-Jan-20 14:10
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 133 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 18:41
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 178 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:13
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 164 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:30
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 157 Open mind 22-Dec-19 22:12
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 159 WVK 23-Dec-19 15:21
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 146 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 21:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 147 Open mind 23-Dec-19 23:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 168 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 22:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 168 seasmith 23-Dec-19 03:04
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 162 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 07:20
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 159 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 09:43
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 151 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 23:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 176 Thanos5150 24-Dec-19 16:53
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 164 Hanslune 24-Dec-19 22:35
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 229 Thanos5150 23-Dec-19 19:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 230 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 21:19
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 243 Enigcom 02-Jan-20 17:29


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