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Open mind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many interesting points.
>
> Corpuscles Wrote:
>
> "Limestone is not entirely a product of
> pressure..."
>
> - Interesting that the softest, (marble), would
> be the most reliant on pressure, if that's what
> you were saying there. If so, its counter
> intuitive.


They are roughly equivalent it has to do with the chemistry.
I suggest you google that question.
Yes marble has to be exposed to heat, but such likely provided by crust folding pressure
>
> I'm in Canada btw, and spent many years rock
> climbing on our natural limestone escarpments,
> (which I just identified as dolomite), as well as
> many other places throughout North America. Even
> on my local harder version of limestone, the hand
> holds of popular routes become very polished and
> smooth just from hand friction. More so than any
> other rock I've climbed on, (including Granite,
> Sandstone, Basalt, volcanic tuff, quartz
> monzonite, etc.)

You are braver than I. Hang on tight!
>
> "Davidovits standard for limestone based
> geopolymer concrete is 90 MPA and he claims they
> have achieved 150 MPA."
>
> - Is that modern man made today, or is that
> referring to ancient identified geopolymer
> megalithic limestone?

Of course that is modern. With the advantages of detailed equipment to adjust the recipe.
I do not know (without reading papers) what the parameters of hardness from the megalithic sites were.
But an interesting question. I might try and find the analysis tables.
>
> "In slabs they still sometimes put in steel
> reinforcement but Geopolymer has extraordinary
> tensile strength already"
>
> - I realize, but for my cost efficiency
> presumptions, its probably cheaper to add rebar
> and less material to maintain tensile strength.

The added material is typically 3%. The rebar is mainly to overcome Building code standards imposed rather than a major need.
>
> "You are touching on some areas which restricts
> many from accepting/ considering the possibility
> of geopolymer use by Ancients. "
>
> - Good point. But coming from a perspective of
> the place holder term of 'magic stone softening',
> and reconsidering the geopolymer approach,
> strictly from the merits of the chemical analysis,
> I find the weakest part of geopolymer theory is
> the suggestion it was treated, produced, and
> worked with like modern day cement, and the
> remains don't support it to me, (lack of repeating
> patterns, simplistic brick shape vs polygonal,
> pillowed, etc.).

In regards to much of it, think of it as a plasticine like render. Have you ever cement rendered an old brick wall?
I do not think much of it involved molds.

You watched vid 4 - Egypt pyramids
The draw back stated by Davidovits in regard to the non associated magnetic survey was the lack of samples. Often they only get a small scrape not a core drill of a block which may have been mainly entirely natural stone , which was supplemented by some trowelled on render.

On the rock softening conjecture.

Quote
Interesting fact
Copper smelters produce around one tonne of sulphuric acid for each tonne of copper concentrate. * Copper miners using the solvent extraction electro-winning process need around 3.0-3.5 tonnes of sulphuric acid to turn ore into one tonne of copper metal.

Try some on a block of granite and stand back and watch! ;-)
>
> I get the impression people think the repeating
> pattern of a brick is some kind of advancement,
> but the brick is stupid easy. Its those polygonal
> shapes that's next level. If I judge the ancients
> from their polygonal systems, with the assumption
> they had a concrete system that lead to that, then
> they had to have spent a LONG time with bricks
> first before getting there, and I can't see enough
> of that progression evidence.

Well in places like Mesopotamia and Egypt they did have lots of experience with brick (mud/clay bricks)

However, as you have been following, along lets talk "Sacsayhuaman" even though not intended in the thread OP.
You will have noted the main bulk of the walls are comprised of small stone and dirt (likely clay enriched) and has a shell of polygonal some very big blocks. You will also have noted a number of places where simply smaller stones are stacked on top of such. The problem with a stack of smaller stones is that with a shake if one stone is dislodged then an avalanche can occur. So if "they" had ability to mimic a geopolymer mix, then they smothered a group of smaller stones binding them together to form a larger less likely to move stone. They also shaped that group in 3 dimensions curves front to back, top to bottom, and the malleable external substance allowed a cut separation (or maybe a flax biodegradable mat) to create intricate close joins to create artificial movement joints. You know - the lines on your concrete are there so that if the concrete expands ,it will crack at that point, not in the middle in a crazed manner.

Mayans Inca whoever etc - Not very high tech, BUT extremely smart!

>
> So with a mind to reverse engineering from what I
> see, if it WAS geopolymer manufactured rock, then
> there had to be some factor about it, that limited
> it to a very thick viscosity like clay at its
> loosest. At least then I could see the challenge
> with mold making because you can't force thick
> clay into complex shapes. It would be just easier
> to approach wall building as blobs with cleaned up
> faces. But then you gotta wonder about those
> knobs.

No molds necessary in most cases.
Best mix for modern rendering If no time then just approx. at 3.45 mark for 15secs

The ancients seem to have applied a very thick coat. Sometimes it was too wet so they had to prop it at the bottom causing dents and bulges in the finished render.
Yep I know I seem crazy - likely true! ;-)

>
> I don't know. Alot hurts the geopolymer idea if
> its presented as cement. I think that part of its
> association needs to be refined and clarified to
> more accurately reflect the actual archeological
> remains.

Have you watched Davidovits vid of making it? You could easily do it yourself especially if you hang off rocks at dizzy heights.

I probably should get off this hobby horse soon?
Cheers

Edit in italic



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08-Jan-20 22:17 by Corpuscles.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 1508 Corpuscles 21-Dec-19 17:24
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 195 Open mind 22-Dec-19 02:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 154 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 05:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 135 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:06
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 92 thinkitover 23-Dec-19 10:05
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 157 ocka 22-Dec-19 09:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 127 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 18:01
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 124 Thanos5150 23-Dec-19 16:53
Re: Tiahuanaco architect named 91 molder 23-Dec-19 22:16
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 92 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 23:44
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 89 Thanos5150 24-Dec-19 16:47
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 75 Hanslune 25-Dec-19 01:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 114 Thanos5150 25-Dec-19 02:43
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 81 Hanslune 27-Dec-19 23:09
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 76 Thanos5150 28-Dec-19 17:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 90 Corpuscles 29-Dec-19 06:33
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 77 Merrell 29-Dec-19 14:38
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 75 Corpuscles 29-Dec-19 20:31
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 73 Merrell 29-Dec-19 23:54
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 61 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 00:03
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 59 Merrell 01-Jan-20 10:45
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 49 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 18:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 67 Open mind 31-Dec-19 19:33
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 53 Merrell 31-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 63 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 00:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 56 Open mind 01-Jan-20 03:02
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 90 Thanos5150 01-Jan-20 04:08
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 63 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 05:51
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 78 Thanos5150 01-Jan-20 06:59
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 71 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 19:40
Basalt Pavers 67 Barbelo 01-Jan-20 21:33
Re: Basalt Pavers 61 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 23:01
Re: Basalt Pavers 55 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 03:36
Re: Basalt Pavers 67 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 05:42
Re: Basalt Pavers 59 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 06:41
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 71 Thanos5150 02-Jan-20 02:17
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 75 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 05:03
Basalt Pillar 76 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 07:15
Re: Basalt Pillar 60 Open mind 02-Jan-20 15:43
Re: Basalt Pillar 67 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 19:06
Re: Basalt Pillar 63 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 21:13
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 78 Thanos5150 02-Jan-20 18:08
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 81 Merrell 02-Jan-20 18:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 121 Martin Stower 03-Jan-20 11:15
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 70 Corpuscles 03-Jan-20 20:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 62 Merrell 03-Jan-20 21:45
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 68 Corpuscles 03-Jan-20 23:23
Sacsayhuaman 76 Barbelo 04-Jan-20 02:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 73 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 03:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 69 Thanos5150 04-Jan-20 03:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 64 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 05:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 112 Barbelo 04-Jan-20 11:16
Re: Sacsayhuaman 63 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 15:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 66 Barbelo 05-Jan-20 20:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 54 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 23:55
Re: Sacsayhuaman 57 Corpuscles 05-Jan-20 21:41
Re: Sacsayhuaman 60 Barbelo 05-Jan-20 23:40
Re: Sacsayhuaman 61 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 23:59
Re: Sacsayhuaman 52 Open mind 06-Jan-20 01:08
Re: Sacsayhuaman 53 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 02:29
Re: Sacsayhuaman 59 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 03:50
Re: Sacsayhuaman 57 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 04:29
Re: Sacsayhuaman 63 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 05:10
Re: Sacsayhuaman 63 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 05:47
Re: Sacsayhuaman 67 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 16:53
Re: Sacsayhuaman 51 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 19:06
The Limestone Puddle 53 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 21:27
Re: Sacsayhuaman 57 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 21:44
Re: Sacsayhuaman 56 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 22:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 65 Thanos5150 07-Jan-20 17:01
Re: Sacsayhuaman 51 Corpuscles 07-Jan-20 21:48
Re: Sacsayhuaman 50 Open mind 06-Jan-20 21:07
Re: Sacsayhuaman 57 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 21:30
Re: Sacsayhuaman 45 Open mind 07-Jan-20 20:43
Re: Sacsayhuaman 49 Open mind 06-Jan-20 13:44
Re: Sacsayhuaman 54 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 11:07
Re: Sacsayhuaman 53 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 05:16
Re: Sacsayhuaman 56 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 10:36
Re: Sacsayhuaman 56 seasmith 06-Jan-20 14:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 53 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 20:46
Re: Sacsayhuaman 50 Open mind 06-Jan-20 16:41
Re: Sacsayhuaman 52 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 21:12
Re: Sacsayhuaman 53 Open mind 07-Jan-20 15:05
Re: Sacsayhuaman 58 Corpuscles 07-Jan-20 21:25
Nonsensical or Unnecessary? 50 Barbelo 07-Jan-20 23:51
Re: Nonsensical or Unnecessary? 61 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 01:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 52 Open mind 08-Jan-20 00:36
Re: Sacsayhuaman 52 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 00:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 53 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 01:12
Re: Sacsayhuaman 48 Open mind 08-Jan-20 02:06
Re: Sacsayhuaman 55 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 03:20
Re: Sacsayhuaman 69 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 07:05
Re: Sacsayhuaman 50 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 12:01
Re: Sacsayhuaman 46 Open mind 08-Jan-20 16:42
Re: Sacsayhuaman 52 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 18:24
Re: Sacsayhuaman 43 Open mind 08-Jan-20 20:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 50 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 21:44
LImestone vs Limestone 46 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 22:40
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 59 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 23:47
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 54 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 01:57
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 61 Corpuscles 09-Jan-20 03:09
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 62 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 04:07
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 47 Open mind 09-Jan-20 16:06
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 48 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 20:49
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 47 Open mind 09-Jan-20 20:58
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 64 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 21:20
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 47 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:12
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 57 Corpuscles 09-Jan-20 17:15
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 48 Open mind 09-Jan-20 15:25
Re:Sacsayhuaman 43 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 07:00
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 41 Open mind 10-Jan-20 13:15
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 64 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 14:34
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 40 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:47
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 47 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:58
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 50 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 21:07
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 43 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 21:00
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 65 Thanos5150 09-Jan-20 01:44
Tombomachay 58 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 06:25
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 55 Barbelo 10-Jan-20 07:30
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 91 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 11:41
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 64 Barbelo 11-Jan-20 05:25
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 56 Corpuscles 12-Jan-20 01:24
Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 57 Barbelo 12-Jan-20 12:11
Re: Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 60 Corpuscles 12-Jan-20 20:56
Re: Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 68 Open mind 13-Jan-20 16:19
Re: Sacsayhuaman 45 Open mind 08-Jan-20 23:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 51 Open mind 08-Jan-20 14:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 43 Merrell 08-Jan-20 17:57
On the fence... 54 Racho 08-Jan-20 04:51
Re: On the fence... 48 Open mind 08-Jan-20 15:24
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 66 Merrell 04-Jan-20 09:04
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 64 Corpuscles 05-Jan-20 09:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 67 Martin Stower 03-Jan-20 23:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 59 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 00:34
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 45 Open mind 05-Jan-20 16:19
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 56 Open mind 02-Jan-20 03:37
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 63 Merrell 01-Jan-20 14:10
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 59 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 18:41
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 97 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:13
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 87 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:30
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 81 Open mind 22-Dec-19 22:12
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 75 WVK 23-Dec-19 15:21
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 71 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 21:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 66 Open mind 23-Dec-19 23:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 91 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 22:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 85 seasmith 23-Dec-19 03:04
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 80 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 07:20
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 81 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 09:43
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 71 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 23:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 91 Thanos5150 24-Dec-19 16:53
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 85 Hanslune 24-Dec-19 22:35
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 142 Thanos5150 23-Dec-19 19:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 148 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 21:19
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 116 Enigcom 02-Jan-20 17:29


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