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Hi OM

Not attempting to convince anyone. I am convinced as you may see more reason in a follow up post later.

Open mind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've seen this before. It was interesting. While
> not a real fan of the geopolymers idea, I can
> accept this as a solid first step towards this
> investigation.
>
> With respect to the sandstone samples, it was
> interesting to see that spike in sodium in the
> monument sample as compared with all the other
> source location material. That's certainly a cool
> discovery. It was far more convincing having a
> direct comparison with all the source location
> candidate material samples. Unfortunate they
> couldn't do the same with the Andesite samples
.
> Definately would be cool to read a follow up from
> the Peruvian scientists if they ever get
> cooperation
about those source sites.

The Andesite signature's were the guano and acid signature from organic material.
The lack of cooperation refers to 1970 . There is now access as his team went to both with a Peruvian Geologist.

>
> But at the end when he held up those pucks of
> stone material he said they made in their lab with
> those recipes they derived, it was odd he didn't
> say anything about the hardness they got. I have
> to assume it wasn't anywhere near comparable. If
> not, then I didn't see the point of that part.

Modern 'fake' geopolymer stone achieves similar hardness.

However I do think it is shame they did not take the source material and reconstruct from that.
>
> But as for the Andesite "H's", while they do have
> that crisp edging and smooth surface which does
> make one think geopolymers, what it didn't have to
> really land that presumption was the similarity
> sufficient to demonstrate that they were made with
> the same mold, OR, another mold built as close as
> possible in measurements. They're all unique from
> what I recall in past discussions or stuff I've
> watched, and from what I can see on the various
> videos I think.

Point taken, however obviously many blocks are missing or broken so no real way of matching exact replicas and perhaps modifying mould slightly was to increase the illusion of stone cutting?
>
> This means they had to make different molds for
> each one and if they were at last attempting to
> duplicate those shapes, which it appears they
> were, then when making the molds, you might expect
> each piece they made, to have been duplicated at
> that time as the same size, since they were making
> multiples. But the final shapes don't
> substantiate that.
>
> Also, as the shapes all have pretty good 90 degree
> angles, it demonstrates that they didn't build in
> relief angles to make mold release easier, and
> that means the molds were extremely complex as
> multiple parts that had to be disassembled to be
> removed from the sculpture after it had hardened.
> So that implies extremely complex molds with many
> parts, and this situation means it would be highly
> advantageous to make all those many complex mold
> pieces at the same time and the same size to
> simplify that process but as all the sculptures
> are different enough, it means they did these
> shapes in the most time consuming and inefficient
> way, one at a time, over and over again. To me it
> at the very least is a strong distraction away
> from a slam dunk on the geopolymer theory, at
> least when considering all those similar "H"
> shapes of Andesite.

Points taken, however obviously many blocks are missing or broken so no real way of matching exact replicas and perhaps modifying mould slightly was to increase the illusion of stone cutting? Some of the decorative inserts are very similar.
I think the project was bespoke not a commercial enterprise focused on mass manufacture for efficient profit and large scale production.
>
> And as I've brought this up many times before, if
> there was an ancient period of geopolymer casting
> in molds, it stretches credulity to consider that
> there isn't at least ONE spot where you can see
> exact duplicates of sculptural elements
> demonstrating that advantage they had. When, as a
> civilization, you figure out casting in molds, the
> very first thing you think about is the advantage
> of duplicating multiples of something. If that's
> NOT evidence against the previous existence of
> geopolymers, its certainly evidence of the most
> confounding coincidence of all time that
> absolutely none of the examples of page one of the
> mold casting period have all been lost.
>
> For some reason when humanity developed 'bricks'
> made orders of magnitude softer and more brittle
> than this hypothetical geopolymer andesite, bricks
> as a building shape really took off. Someone
> really missed the forest for the trees if it was
> in fact something as hard as andesite was
> manufactured from a wet slurry and hardend. This
> is my biggest challenge.

I enjoyed the fact that the unanswered questions in particular the exact method of acidic dissolution was not specifically mentioned however Davidovits reckons the source material for the 'concrete' was volcanic tuff not hard stone (or as you will se later likely a combination?).
Like Pompeii which was ash from pyroclastic flow , that has now (LATER) hardened to appear as if solid rock.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22-Dec-19 21:34 by Corpuscles.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 1731 Corpuscles 21-Dec-19 17:24
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 287 Open mind 22-Dec-19 02:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 256 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 05:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 226 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:06
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 173 thinkitover 23-Dec-19 10:05
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 283 ocka 22-Dec-19 09:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 217 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 18:01
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 211 Thanos5150 23-Dec-19 16:53
Re: Tiahuanaco architect named 174 molder 23-Dec-19 22:16
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 180 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 23:44
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 173 Thanos5150 24-Dec-19 16:47
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 164 Hanslune 25-Dec-19 01:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 214 Thanos5150 25-Dec-19 02:43
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 170 Hanslune 27-Dec-19 23:09
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 174 Thanos5150 28-Dec-19 17:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 175 Corpuscles 29-Dec-19 06:33
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 159 Merrell 29-Dec-19 14:38
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 159 Corpuscles 29-Dec-19 20:31
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 169 Merrell 29-Dec-19 23:54
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 147 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 00:03
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 146 Merrell 01-Jan-20 10:45
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 143 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 18:32
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 153 Open mind 31-Dec-19 19:33
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 135 Merrell 31-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 168 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 00:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 138 Open mind 01-Jan-20 03:02
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 224 Thanos5150 01-Jan-20 04:08
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 153 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 05:51
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 172 Thanos5150 01-Jan-20 06:59
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 173 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 19:40
Basalt Pavers 152 Barbelo 01-Jan-20 21:33
Re: Basalt Pavers 155 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 23:01
Re: Basalt Pavers 146 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 03:36
Re: Basalt Pavers 161 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 05:42
Re: Basalt Pavers 147 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 06:41
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 160 Thanos5150 02-Jan-20 02:17
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 177 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 05:03
Basalt Pillar 166 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 07:15
Re: Basalt Pillar 148 Open mind 02-Jan-20 15:43
Re: Basalt Pillar 225 Corpuscles 02-Jan-20 19:06
Re: Basalt Pillar 157 Barbelo 02-Jan-20 21:13
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 186 Thanos5150 02-Jan-20 18:08
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 181 Merrell 02-Jan-20 18:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 206 Martin Stower 03-Jan-20 11:15
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 160 Corpuscles 03-Jan-20 20:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 156 Merrell 03-Jan-20 21:45
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 152 Corpuscles 03-Jan-20 23:23
Sacsayhuaman 161 Barbelo 04-Jan-20 02:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 160 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 03:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 155 Thanos5150 04-Jan-20 03:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 156 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 05:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 200 Barbelo 04-Jan-20 11:16
Re: Sacsayhuaman 148 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 15:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 151 Barbelo 05-Jan-20 20:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 139 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 23:55
Re: Sacsayhuaman 142 Corpuscles 05-Jan-20 21:41
Re: Sacsayhuaman 146 Barbelo 05-Jan-20 23:40
Re: Sacsayhuaman 148 Thanos5150 05-Jan-20 23:59
Re: Sacsayhuaman 141 Open mind 06-Jan-20 01:08
Re: Sacsayhuaman 137 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 02:29
Re: Sacsayhuaman 144 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 03:50
Re: Sacsayhuaman 138 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 04:29
Re: Sacsayhuaman 149 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 05:10
Re: Sacsayhuaman 156 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 05:47
Re: Sacsayhuaman 176 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 16:53
Re: Sacsayhuaman 144 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 19:06
The Limestone Puddle 137 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 21:27
Re: Sacsayhuaman 137 Thanos5150 06-Jan-20 21:44
Re: Sacsayhuaman 138 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 22:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 158 Thanos5150 07-Jan-20 17:01
Re: Sacsayhuaman 137 Corpuscles 07-Jan-20 21:48
Re: Sacsayhuaman 140 Open mind 06-Jan-20 21:07
Re: Sacsayhuaman 137 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 21:30
Re: Sacsayhuaman 133 Open mind 07-Jan-20 20:43
Re: Sacsayhuaman 131 Open mind 06-Jan-20 13:44
Re: Sacsayhuaman 147 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 11:07
Re: Sacsayhuaman 135 Corpuscles 06-Jan-20 05:16
Re: Sacsayhuaman 138 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 10:36
Re: Sacsayhuaman 140 seasmith 06-Jan-20 14:28
Re: Sacsayhuaman 134 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 20:46
Re: Sacsayhuaman 130 Open mind 06-Jan-20 16:41
Re: Sacsayhuaman 131 Barbelo 06-Jan-20 21:12
Re: Sacsayhuaman 138 Open mind 07-Jan-20 15:05
Re: Sacsayhuaman 150 Corpuscles 07-Jan-20 21:25
Nonsensical or Unnecessary? 134 Barbelo 07-Jan-20 23:51
Re: Nonsensical or Unnecessary? 153 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 01:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 134 Open mind 08-Jan-20 00:36
Re: Sacsayhuaman 136 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 00:58
Re: Sacsayhuaman 140 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 01:12
Re: Sacsayhuaman 128 Open mind 08-Jan-20 02:06
Re: Sacsayhuaman 136 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 03:20
Re: Sacsayhuaman 155 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 07:05
Re: Sacsayhuaman 126 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 12:01
Re: Sacsayhuaman 133 Open mind 08-Jan-20 16:42
Re: Sacsayhuaman 132 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 18:24
Re: Sacsayhuaman 126 Open mind 08-Jan-20 20:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 129 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 21:44
LImestone vs Limestone 124 Barbelo 08-Jan-20 22:40
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 145 Corpuscles 08-Jan-20 23:47
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 134 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 01:57
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 143 Corpuscles 09-Jan-20 03:09
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 132 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 04:07
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 128 Open mind 09-Jan-20 16:06
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 118 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 20:49
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 119 Open mind 09-Jan-20 20:58
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 140 Barbelo 09-Jan-20 21:20
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 120 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:12
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 126 Corpuscles 09-Jan-20 17:15
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 130 Open mind 09-Jan-20 15:25
Re:Sacsayhuaman 131 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 07:00
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 120 Open mind 10-Jan-20 13:15
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 246 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 14:34
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 117 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:47
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 126 Open mind 10-Jan-20 15:58
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 117 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 21:07
Re: Re:Sacsayhuaman 112 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 21:00
Re: LImestone vs Limestone 146 Thanos5150 09-Jan-20 01:44
Tombomachay 139 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 06:25
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 128 Barbelo 10-Jan-20 07:30
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 208 Corpuscles 10-Jan-20 11:41
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 149 Barbelo 11-Jan-20 05:25
Re: Limestone vs Limestone 140 Corpuscles 12-Jan-20 01:24
Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 139 Barbelo 12-Jan-20 12:11
Re: Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 144 Corpuscles 12-Jan-20 20:56
Re: Now All You Have To Do Is Prove It 158 Open mind 13-Jan-20 16:19
Re: Sacsayhuaman 123 Open mind 08-Jan-20 23:22
Re: Sacsayhuaman 134 Open mind 08-Jan-20 14:23
Re: Sacsayhuaman 129 Merrell 08-Jan-20 17:57
On the fence... 133 Racho 08-Jan-20 04:51
Re: On the fence... 132 Open mind 08-Jan-20 15:24
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 155 Merrell 04-Jan-20 09:04
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 145 Corpuscles 05-Jan-20 09:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 151 Martin Stower 03-Jan-20 23:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 140 Corpuscles 04-Jan-20 00:34
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 124 Open mind 05-Jan-20 16:19
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 142 Open mind 02-Jan-20 03:37
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 147 Merrell 01-Jan-20 14:10
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 133 Corpuscles 01-Jan-20 18:41
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 178 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:13
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 164 Corpuscles 22-Dec-19 21:30
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 157 Open mind 22-Dec-19 22:12
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 159 WVK 23-Dec-19 15:21
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 146 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 21:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 147 Open mind 23-Dec-19 23:22
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 168 Hanslune 22-Dec-19 22:58
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 168 seasmith 23-Dec-19 03:04
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 162 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 07:20
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 159 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 09:43
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 151 Hanslune 23-Dec-19 23:28
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 176 Thanos5150 24-Dec-19 16:53
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 164 Hanslune 24-Dec-19 22:35
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 229 Thanos5150 23-Dec-19 19:29
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 230 Corpuscles 23-Dec-19 21:19
Re: Tiwanaku / Pumapunku Megaliths are Artificial Geopolymers 243 Enigcom 02-Jan-20 17:29


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