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Hi, Jim and all

Jim Alison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Stephen,
>
> Thanks for the kind words. I took another look at
> the Stecchini link and also the following one
> about the origin of the English foot, and as much
> as I like Stecchini, I remain troubled by his
> insistence that the primary Egyptian measures are
> exactly .3 m for the foot, .45 m for the cubit and
> .525 m for the royal cubit.

As well you probably should - any of us should probably be suspicious of data that looks too neatly rounded. The .525 m RC might be a slightly different case however.

(Personally I haven't gone near Stecchini much since I have seen him accused of virtually fabricating what were supposed to be quotes from classic Greek authors in regards to the Great Pyramid's content of geodetic data. If I have to go to the ends of the earth to get to the bottom of that, I probably never will, but I have been trying to round up my copies of the original Greek texts just in case).

> It makes me wonder if
> he was a little bit too metric. Also it makes me
> think his cubit is too long for early Egypt.

I almost want to say that maybe Stecchini was being too geometric, but that probably calls for some explanation too?

Well, to start with, if we look at what MC wrote

magisterchessmutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is what Stecchini saw that
> made him think it was his modern meter of 39.39
> ins. that was being used.

If that's the figure Stecchini was using, I'm not sure it's a modern meter. We might usually see that kind of thing when someone is trying to make a meter out of the squared Radian

57.29577951^2 = (360 / (2 Pi))^2 = 3.282806350 x 1000; 3.282806350 x 12 = 39.39367620 inches

Likewise "his" (Lepsius'?) Cubit of 525 mm = 1.722440945 also seems rather resplendent of circular geometry

(1 / (360 / 2)) x (Pi^3) = 1.722570927 / 10

In spite of closely related geometric origins, 3.282806350 and 1.722570927 don't necessarily have the best relationship, and an RC of 1.718873385 of course also has geometric pedigree as (360^2) / 2 Pi =
20.62648062 x 100 and etc.

1.718873385 relates to a "meter" of 3.282806350, or at least to 1/1000 of the squared Radian of 3282.806350 in feet, via the elegantly simple and straightfoward (6 / Pi) rather than the more complicated relationship of 3.282806350 / 1.722570927 which is ((Radian^3) / (Pi^2) / 10^n.

It's things like that that make me wonder if that 525 mm rod couldn't have been a ceremonial one that pays due homage to a well pedigreed but possibly inferior Cubit of 1.722570927.

My model of the Great Pyramid can be very interesting to measure with a Cubit of 1.722570927, but in this model the GP appears to be designed on a Cubit of 1.718873385 with several important "checks" in place, so thus far 1.722570927 has achieved only very honorable mention.

On the other hand, it isn't necessarily easy to sort out 3.282806350 and its proper role in the scheme of things, which manages to end up making it possibly more difficult to sort out whether ~1.722570927 ft was too long to be an Egyptian cubit at any point.

Consider that one way of describing the relationship between Remen and Royal Cubit is as ~360 / (Royal Cubit^2) = Remen

With a Royal Cubit of 1.718873385, 360 / (1.718873385^2) = 1.218469680, which is sqrt 2 to a Cubit of
1.723176345, and to my reckoning at least, 1.218469680 may have actually been used in the Great Pyramid along with 1.216733603.

1.723176345 actually is 1.722570927 to greater accuracy than 22/7 is Pi, and 1.218469680 is 4 / 3.282806350...

(For those that like to look for interesting patterns, 1.218469680 is also .1234567901 x (Pi^2)).

So what does one decide to do with all this, and what did the ancients decide to do with all of it?

For whatever it's worth, I could never get 3.282806350 to be a good meter in practice, even after attempting to shave it down with the 1.000723277 ratio that's ubiquitous in my work. Certainly brings it closer to the contemporary meter, but it still may not make a good meter in actual practice, which is still an important test that any proposal has to face.

If that's what Stecchini did though was try to make a meter out of 3.282806350, I did the same thing myself for years.

BTW, I was reading the opening remarks of this thread again and reminded of an old problem I ran into with the Remen, which I hope you managed to get around in your paper, which goes something like

~Remen v x 27 = ~meter = ~4 / Remen w; Remen w x 300 = ~Solar (or calendar) year y; ~Solar (or calendar) year y x 360 = ~earth circumference in feet z / 10^n

Which may or may not be a good formula - it's gotten harder for me to tell lately ever since realizing that if I fine tune Michell's long values ever so slightly, most of his geodetic functions for them work quite well, except the resulting figure is a mean circumference value in his realm, in contrast to where the same value lands in my own models, and worse I was mainly relying on the authority of my Great Pyramid model to tell me it's "okay" to model the various circumference figures in feet for the earth using something other than the obvious ratios between the same figures in miles.

That may not be as well sorted out as I'd hoped it was so I hope that formula doesn't end up getting the better of any of us, speaking of Remens in geodetic roles. Maybe someone will figure out how to work that one if you haven't already in the course of writing your paper, or maybe DK will tell us to throw it out and rightfully so?

Apparently I'm still rather disoriented from finally getting it through my head that Michell's long unit values may relate to a mean geodetic value, lol.

Cheers!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21-Dec-19 16:02 by thinkitover.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Remen : Meridian 1974 Jim Alison 15-Nov-19 22:52
DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 155 Poster Boy 16-Nov-19 17:55
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 141 DUNE 17-Nov-19 09:56
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 115 Jim Alison 17-Nov-19 23:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 112 Poster Boy 17-Nov-19 23:59
Found it! 148 Poster Boy 18-Nov-19 02:55
Re: Found it! 114 Mercurial 20-Nov-19 11:44
Re: Found it! 101 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:42
Squaring The Circle 116 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Nov-19 18:59
Re: Squaring The Circle 114 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Squaring The Circle 113 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:22
Remen references 125 Lee McGiffen 21-Nov-19 01:59
Re: Remen references 126 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 04:29
Re: Remen references 98 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 13:56
Re: Remen references 76 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 20:05
Re: Remen references 93 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 21:17
Re: Remen references 79 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 01:24
Re: Remen references 79 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 12:10
Re: Remen references 107 DUNE 25-Nov-19 13:17
Re: Remen references 51 Jim Alison 16-Jan-20 20:22
Drastic Geodetic Measures and Nippur Cubit 95 thinkitover 25-Nov-19 06:46
Re: Remen references 97 Jim Alison 26-Nov-19 08:04
Re: Remen references 107 Lee McGiffen 27-Nov-19 12:54
Re: Remen references 83 Mercurial 28-Nov-19 22:32
Re: Remen references 111 Jim Alison 01-Dec-19 06:15
Re: Squaring The Circle 129 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 00:47
Re: Squaring The Circle 89 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 02:32
Re: Squaring The Circle 92 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 05:20
Re: Squaring The Circle 140 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 06:26
Egyptian knowledge of √2 93 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:39
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 77 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 01:19
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 102 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 09:45
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 83 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 14:42
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 77 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 16:10
Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 89 geoffss 21-Nov-19 10:49
Re: Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 84 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 11:54
Re: Squaring The Circle 50 molder 20-Dec-19 12:45
Re: Found it! 96 Mercurial 22-Nov-19 06:48
Re: Found it! 92 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 12:01
Re: Found it! 89 Poster Boy 22-Nov-19 15:24
Re: Found it! 96 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 23:55
Re: Found it! 80 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 02:06
Re: Found it! 81 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 02:36
Re: Found it! 80 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Found it! 87 DUNE 23-Nov-19 18:42
Re: Found it! 75 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 19:37
Re: Found it! 84 DUNE 23-Nov-19 20:14
Re: Found it! 76 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 20:27
Re: Found it! 76 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 20:46
Re: Found it! 82 DUNE 23-Nov-19 21:37
Re: Found it! 80 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 21:55
Re: Found it! 84 DUNE 23-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Found it! 76 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 22:44
Re: Found it! 110 Poster Boy 24-Nov-19 17:44
Re: Found it! 80 DUNE 24-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Found it! 84 Poster Boy 24-Nov-19 18:34
Re: Found it! 80 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 20:59
Re: Found it! 77 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 19:55
Totally debunked 81 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 05:23
NOT Totally debunked 77 Poster Boy 24-Nov-19 05:41
eg: NOT Totally debunked 89 Poster Boy 24-Nov-19 06:12
Khufu <> Khafre 97 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 00:28
Re: Khufu <> Khafre 73 Mercurial 24-Nov-19 19:12
Khufu <> Khafre - Update 37 Dr. Troglodyte 11-Jan-20 19:56
Re: Found it! 96 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:35
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 96 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 86 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:05
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 91 magisterchessmutt 20-Nov-19 00:27
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 84 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 15:34
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 82 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:49
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 88 DUNE 19-Nov-19 10:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 82 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:22
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 83 DUNE 19-Nov-19 15:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 79 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 00:44
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 95 Poster Boy 19-Nov-19 16:43
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 82 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 01:07
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 99 Poster Boy 20-Nov-19 01:38
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 84 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:28
Where is this leading? 89 Poster Boy 21-Nov-19 17:19
Re: Where is this leading? 91 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 105 Poster Boy 16-Nov-19 18:00
Re: Remen : Meridian 103 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:09
Excellent! 107 thinkitover 16-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Excellent! 134 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Excellent! 107 Lee McGiffen 18-Nov-19 07:36
Re: Excellent! 109 Jim Alison 18-Nov-19 15:55
Re: Excellent! 104 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:57
Re: Remen : Meridian 96 Spiros 20-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 87 Spiros 20-Nov-19 19:28
Re: Remen : Meridian 87 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 79 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:25
Re: Remen : Meridian 102 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 86 Spiros 20-Nov-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 95 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 23:40
The Earth number 144 hendrik dirker 21-Nov-19 05:48
Re: The Earth number 122 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 13:15
Re: The Earth number 103 molder 22-Nov-19 19:30
Re: The Earth number 84 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:44
Geometry as Metrology? 104 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 22:56
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 93 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 00:04
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 97 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 01:16
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 104 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:36
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 129 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 133 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 02:38
Re: Remen : Meridian 93 DavidK 11-Dec-19 23:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 79 DavidK 12-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Remen : Meridian 69 thinkitover 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 82 DavidK 12-Dec-19 21:27
Re: Remen : Meridian 61 Jiri Mruzek 13-Dec-19 00:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 58 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 62 Jim Alison 13-Dec-19 03:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 61 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 04:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 62 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 63 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 63 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:15
Re: Remen : Meridian 55 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 11:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 73 DavidK 13-Dec-19 11:07
Re: Earth circumference 82 drew 17-Dec-19 23:57
Re: Earth circumference 82 DavidK 18-Dec-19 11:29
Re: Earth circumference 86 drew 20-Dec-19 00:22
Re: Earth circumference 73 hendrik dirker 20-Dec-19 06:07
Re: Earth circumference 70 DavidK 20-Dec-19 13:27
Re: Earth circumference 53 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 12:48
Re: Earth circumference 64 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 20:48
Re: Earth circumference 60 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 11:44
Re: Earth circumference 56 drew 20-Dec-19 23:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 61 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 19:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 63 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 01:54
Re: Remen : Meridian 60 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 04:30
Re: Remen : Meridian 50 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 07:43
Re: Remen : Meridian 54 DavidK 21-Dec-19 10:56
Re: Remen : Meridian 59 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 53 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 47 DavidK 21-Dec-19 16:08
Re: Remen : Meridian 69 DavidK 21-Dec-19 12:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 54 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Remen : Meridian 52 molder 21-Dec-19 20:33
Re: Remen : Meridian 48 DavidK 21-Dec-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 54 Jim Alison 22-Dec-19 03:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 56 DavidK 22-Dec-19 10:30
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 55 molder 22-Dec-19 13:03
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 52 DavidK 22-Dec-19 15:01
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 65 magisterchessmutt 22-Dec-19 17:13
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 66 DavidK 22-Dec-19 17:32
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 60 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 05:23
Stecchini's Metrics 58 thinkitover 21-Dec-19 16:01
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 66 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 58 thinkitover 24-Dec-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 59 drew 23-Dec-19 00:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 59 Jim Alison 23-Dec-19 02:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 68 DavidK 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Remen : Meridian 74 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 01:09
Re: Remen : Meridian 50 drew 27-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 58 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:59
Re: Remen : Meridian 54 drew 28-Dec-19 22:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 98 DavidK 29-Dec-19 00:50
Re: Remen : Meridian 55 Jim Alison 11-Jan-20 03:53
Re: Remen : Meridian 50 DavidK 11-Jan-20 13:54
The Egyptian Remen 14.58333r inches 59 DavidK 11-Jan-20 16:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 42 Jim Alison 22-Jan-20 00:10
Re: Remen : Meridian 36 Mercurial 22-Jan-20 20:59
say hello to rodz? 59 DavidK 11-Jan-20 18:01
Re: say hello to rodz? 44 thinkitover 12-Jan-20 06:03
Re: say hello to rodz? 51 DavidK 12-Jan-20 12:45
Re: say hello to rodz? 48 thinkitover 13-Jan-20 06:41


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