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Hi, Jim and all

Jim Alison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Stephen,
>
> Thanks for the kind words. I took another look at
> the Stecchini link and also the following one
> about the origin of the English foot, and as much
> as I like Stecchini, I remain troubled by his
> insistence that the primary Egyptian measures are
> exactly .3 m for the foot, .45 m for the cubit and
> .525 m for the royal cubit.

As well you probably should - any of us should probably be suspicious of data that looks too neatly rounded. The .525 m RC might be a slightly different case however.

(Personally I haven't gone near Stecchini much since I have seen him accused of virtually fabricating what were supposed to be quotes from classic Greek authors in regards to the Great Pyramid's content of geodetic data. If I have to go to the ends of the earth to get to the bottom of that, I probably never will, but I have been trying to round up my copies of the original Greek texts just in case).

> It makes me wonder if
> he was a little bit too metric. Also it makes me
> think his cubit is too long for early Egypt.

I almost want to say that maybe Stecchini was being too geometric, but that probably calls for some explanation too?

Well, to start with, if we look at what MC wrote

magisterchessmutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is what Stecchini saw that
> made him think it was his modern meter of 39.39
> ins. that was being used.

If that's the figure Stecchini was using, I'm not sure it's a modern meter. We might usually see that kind of thing when someone is trying to make a meter out of the squared Radian

57.29577951^2 = (360 / (2 Pi))^2 = 3.282806350 x 1000; 3.282806350 x 12 = 39.39367620 inches

Likewise "his" (Lepsius'?) Cubit of 525 mm = 1.722440945 also seems rather resplendent of circular geometry

(1 / (360 / 2)) x (Pi^3) = 1.722570927 / 10

In spite of closely related geometric origins, 3.282806350 and 1.722570927 don't necessarily have the best relationship, and an RC of 1.718873385 of course also has geometric pedigree as (360^2) / 2 Pi =
20.62648062 x 100 and etc.

1.718873385 relates to a "meter" of 3.282806350, or at least to 1/1000 of the squared Radian of 3282.806350 in feet, via the elegantly simple and straightfoward (6 / Pi) rather than the more complicated relationship of 3.282806350 / 1.722570927 which is ((Radian^3) / (Pi^2) / 10^n.

It's things like that that make me wonder if that 525 mm rod couldn't have been a ceremonial one that pays due homage to a well pedigreed but possibly inferior Cubit of 1.722570927.

My model of the Great Pyramid can be very interesting to measure with a Cubit of 1.722570927, but in this model the GP appears to be designed on a Cubit of 1.718873385 with several important "checks" in place, so thus far 1.722570927 has achieved only very honorable mention.

On the other hand, it isn't necessarily easy to sort out 3.282806350 and its proper role in the scheme of things, which manages to end up making it possibly more difficult to sort out whether ~1.722570927 ft was too long to be an Egyptian cubit at any point.

Consider that one way of describing the relationship between Remen and Royal Cubit is as ~360 / (Royal Cubit^2) = Remen

With a Royal Cubit of 1.718873385, 360 / (1.718873385^2) = 1.218469680, which is sqrt 2 to a Cubit of
1.723176345, and to my reckoning at least, 1.218469680 may have actually been used in the Great Pyramid along with 1.216733603.

1.723176345 actually is 1.722570927 to greater accuracy than 22/7 is Pi, and 1.218469680 is 4 / 3.282806350...

(For those that like to look for interesting patterns, 1.218469680 is also .1234567901 x (Pi^2)).

So what does one decide to do with all this, and what did the ancients decide to do with all of it?

For whatever it's worth, I could never get 3.282806350 to be a good meter in practice, even after attempting to shave it down with the 1.000723277 ratio that's ubiquitous in my work. Certainly brings it closer to the contemporary meter, but it still may not make a good meter in actual practice, which is still an important test that any proposal has to face.

If that's what Stecchini did though was try to make a meter out of 3.282806350, I did the same thing myself for years.

BTW, I was reading the opening remarks of this thread again and reminded of an old problem I ran into with the Remen, which I hope you managed to get around in your paper, which goes something like

~Remen v x 27 = ~meter = ~4 / Remen w; Remen w x 300 = ~Solar (or calendar) year y; ~Solar (or calendar) year y x 360 = ~earth circumference in feet z / 10^n

Which may or may not be a good formula - it's gotten harder for me to tell lately ever since realizing that if I fine tune Michell's long values ever so slightly, most of his geodetic functions for them work quite well, except the resulting figure is a mean circumference value in his realm, in contrast to where the same value lands in my own models, and worse I was mainly relying on the authority of my Great Pyramid model to tell me it's "okay" to model the various circumference figures in feet for the earth using something other than the obvious ratios between the same figures in miles.

That may not be as well sorted out as I'd hoped it was so I hope that formula doesn't end up getting the better of any of us, speaking of Remens in geodetic roles. Maybe someone will figure out how to work that one if you haven't already in the course of writing your paper, or maybe DK will tell us to throw it out and rightfully so?

Apparently I'm still rather disoriented from finally getting it through my head that Michell's long unit values may relate to a mean geodetic value, lol.

Cheers!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21-Dec-19 16:02 by thinkitover.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Remen : Meridian 2621 Jim Alison 15-Nov-19 22:52
DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 323 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 17:55
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 312 DUNE 17-Nov-19 09:56
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 288 Jim Alison 17-Nov-19 23:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 292 PB Bytes 17-Nov-19 23:59
Found it! 331 PB Bytes 18-Nov-19 02:55
Re: Found it! 289 Mercurial 20-Nov-19 11:44
Re: Found it! 274 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:42
Squaring The Circle 301 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Nov-19 18:59
Re: Squaring The Circle 295 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Squaring The Circle 285 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:22
Remen references 310 Lee McGiffen 21-Nov-19 01:59
Re: Remen references 310 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 04:29
Re: Remen references 278 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 13:56
Re: Remen references 248 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 20:05
Re: Remen references 272 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 21:17
Re: Remen references 255 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 01:24
Re: Remen references 244 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 12:10
Re: Remen references 300 DUNE 25-Nov-19 13:17
Re: Remen references 212 Jim Alison 16-Jan-20 20:22
Drastic Geodetic Measures and Nippur Cubit 294 thinkitover 25-Nov-19 06:46
Re: Remen references 278 Jim Alison 26-Nov-19 08:04
Re: Remen references 311 Lee McGiffen 27-Nov-19 12:54
Re: Remen references 257 Mercurial 28-Nov-19 22:32
Re: Remen references 327 Jim Alison 01-Dec-19 06:15
Re: Squaring The Circle 320 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 00:47
Re: Squaring The Circle 267 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 02:32
Re: Squaring The Circle 258 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 05:20
Re: Squaring The Circle 337 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 06:26
Egyptian knowledge of √2 260 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:39
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 234 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 01:19
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 283 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 09:45
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 249 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 14:42
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 242 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 16:10
Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 264 geoffss 21-Nov-19 10:49
Re: Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 259 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 11:54
Re: Squaring The Circle 221 molder 20-Dec-19 12:45
Re: Found it! 295 Mercurial 22-Nov-19 06:48
Re: Found it! 259 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 12:01
Re: Found it! 255 PB Bytes 22-Nov-19 15:24
Re: Found it! 293 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 23:55
Re: Found it! 251 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 02:06
Re: Found it! 248 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 02:36
Re: Found it! 243 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Found it! 252 DUNE 23-Nov-19 18:42
Re: Found it! 236 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 19:37
Re: Found it! 253 DUNE 23-Nov-19 20:14
Re: Found it! 242 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:27
Re: Found it! 239 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:46
Re: Found it! 243 DUNE 23-Nov-19 21:37
Re: Found it! 245 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 21:55
Re: Found it! 247 DUNE 23-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Found it! 239 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 22:44
Re: Found it! 300 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 17:44
Re: Found it! 255 DUNE 24-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Found it! 259 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 18:34
Re: Found it! 246 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:59
Re: Found it! 243 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 19:55
Totally debunked 250 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 05:23
NOT Totally debunked 241 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 05:41
eg: NOT Totally debunked 257 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 06:12
Khufu <> Khafre 280 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 00:28
Re: Khufu <> Khafre 242 Mercurial 24-Nov-19 19:12
Khufu <> Khafre - Update 206 Dr. Troglodyte 11-Jan-20 19:56
Re: Found it! 267 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:35
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 257 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 252 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:05
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 269 magisterchessmutt 20-Nov-19 00:27
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 253 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 15:34
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 253 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:49
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 257 DUNE 19-Nov-19 10:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 253 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:22
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 244 DUNE 19-Nov-19 15:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 246 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 00:44
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 265 PB Bytes 19-Nov-19 16:43
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 251 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 01:07
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 279 PB Bytes 20-Nov-19 01:38
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 250 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:28
Where is this leading? 258 PB Bytes 21-Nov-19 17:19
Re: Where is this leading? 270 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 268 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 18:00
Re: Remen : Meridian 270 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:09
Excellent! 278 thinkitover 16-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Excellent! 315 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Excellent! 298 Lee McGiffen 18-Nov-19 07:36
Re: Excellent! 294 Jim Alison 18-Nov-19 15:55
Re: Excellent! 273 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:57
Re: Remen : Meridian 267 Spiros 20-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 262 Spiros 20-Nov-19 19:28
Re: Remen : Meridian 257 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 253 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:25
Re: Remen : Meridian 287 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 268 Spiros 20-Nov-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 261 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 23:40
The Earth number 331 hendrik dirker 21-Nov-19 05:48
Re: The Earth number 282 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 13:15
Re: The Earth number 277 molder 22-Nov-19 19:30
Re: The Earth number 251 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:44
Geometry as Metrology? 303 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 22:56
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 268 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 00:04
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 275 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 01:16
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 303 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:36
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 307 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 410 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 02:38
Re: Remen : Meridian 278 DavidK 11-Dec-19 23:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 262 DavidK 12-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Remen : Meridian 306 thinkitover 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 283 DavidK 12-Dec-19 21:27
Re: Remen : Meridian 235 Jiri Mruzek 13-Dec-19 00:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 221 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 235 Jim Alison 13-Dec-19 03:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 228 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 04:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 222 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 223 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 227 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:15
Re: Remen : Meridian 228 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 11:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 244 DavidK 13-Dec-19 11:07
Re: Earth circumference 302 drew 17-Dec-19 23:57
Re: Earth circumference 282 DavidK 18-Dec-19 11:29
Re: Earth circumference 252 drew 20-Dec-19 00:22
Re: Earth circumference 256 hendrik dirker 20-Dec-19 06:07
Re: Earth circumference 235 DavidK 20-Dec-19 13:27
Re: Earth circumference 222 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 12:48
Re: Earth circumference 237 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 20:48
Re: Earth circumference 236 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 11:44
Re: Earth circumference 217 drew 20-Dec-19 23:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 225 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 19:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 220 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 01:54
Re: Remen : Meridian 230 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 04:30
Re: Remen : Meridian 225 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 07:43
Re: Remen : Meridian 223 DavidK 21-Dec-19 10:56
Re: Remen : Meridian 223 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 216 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 210 DavidK 21-Dec-19 16:08
Re: Remen : Meridian 238 DavidK 21-Dec-19 12:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 222 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Remen : Meridian 218 molder 21-Dec-19 20:33
Re: Remen : Meridian 210 DavidK 21-Dec-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 212 Jim Alison 22-Dec-19 03:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 208 DavidK 22-Dec-19 10:30
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 220 molder 22-Dec-19 13:03
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 215 DavidK 22-Dec-19 15:01
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 219 magisterchessmutt 22-Dec-19 17:13
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 226 DavidK 22-Dec-19 17:32
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 220 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 05:23
Stecchini's Metrics 219 thinkitover 21-Dec-19 16:01
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 221 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 223 thinkitover 24-Dec-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 221 drew 23-Dec-19 00:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 215 Jim Alison 23-Dec-19 02:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 231 DavidK 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Remen : Meridian 235 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 01:09
Re: Remen : Meridian 212 drew 27-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 231 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:59
Re: Remen : Meridian 229 drew 28-Dec-19 22:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 285 DavidK 29-Dec-19 00:50
Re: Remen : Meridian 189 Jim Alison 19-Apr-20 18:46
Re: Remen : Meridian 170 drew 22-Apr-20 23:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 181 magisterchessmutt 23-Apr-20 13:03
Re: Remen : Meridian 189 magisterchessmutt 24-Apr-20 08:14
Re: Remen : Meridian 217 Jim Alison 11-Jan-20 03:53
Re: Remen : Meridian 208 DavidK 11-Jan-20 13:54
The Egyptian Remen 14.58333r inches 347 DavidK 11-Jan-20 16:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 211 Jim Alison 22-Jan-20 00:10
Re: Remen : Meridian 201 Mercurial 22-Jan-20 20:59
say hello to rodz? 229 DavidK 11-Jan-20 18:01
Re: say hello to rodz? 211 thinkitover 12-Jan-20 06:03
Re: say hello to rodz? 218 DavidK 12-Jan-20 12:45
Re: say hello to rodz? 292 thinkitover 13-Jan-20 06:41
Re: Remen : Meridian 243 akitu 24-Apr-20 19:26


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