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DavidK Wrote:
> 'This inquiry reveals the oldest extant
> weights and measures linked by significant
> magnitude ratios to those current in historical
> times, and suggests that this ancient metrology
> was geodetic in origin.

I feel like quite the ass (and probably should) for saying anything like this in response to such an utterly commendable post about Berriman, but sadly this may be a part of Jim Alison's (or others') quite impressive and exemplary work that I cannot quite bring myself to agree with - would it quite make sense that geodesy should precede metrology?

The closest I seem to be able to comfortably get is that this ancient metrology was geodetic in application, even if it's still not perfectly clear if the ultimate application were geodetic measurement or geodetic modelling.

Perhaps there is no single ultimate application, but I notice I'm not the only one whose work seems to indicate geodetic modelling at ratios like 1 foot:1 mile, and that's still all I really know to do with a precisely 5280 mile even now is simply accept that ratio to the foot, rather than trying to make the mile relate to other units in a directly derivative way.

Like the foot itself perhaps, the 5280 foot mile may exist mainly to give meaning to other units. Reading some of these discussions, I've recently begun to wonder it that isn't where an ancient meter would also fit it - whether it wouldn't fit better into the scheme of things to simply accept its value in relation to other units, rather than trying to get the meter to relate to other units in a direct or derivative way.

Perhaps not on the other hand, I recently found a page from one of Munck's publications in a reference binder stating that a basic unit of conventional longitude at one of the Egyptian pyramid fields is 5277 feet. That may try to keep me up at night...

> So what you are doing without realising is
> repeating Berriman's calculations to support his
> argument without quite getting them to agree his.

Perhaps some of us independent minded types are more eager to participate in consensus when we don't realize that that's what we're doing? lol

I think I'm probably most likely to achieve some consensus with Jim Wakefield because he's not afraid of the Pi ratio, lol. I was quite amused and delighted to find an old post of yours with one of my Stonehenge numbers verbatim after you'd looked at some of his work. :-)

For myself, I think where Berriman undoubtedly shines is in recognizing relationships between units, as opposed to necessarily in recognizing the absolute nature of some of those units or their origins, just as I likewise think where Petrie shines is the securing of data as opposed to necessarily in the interpretation of it. I don't know if it's quite fair to expect any trailblazer get everything right, come to think of it.

(I think I will leave Petrie's struggles with the Royal Cubit to speak for themselves as to the possible perils of what has to be one of the most fundamental premises of "inductive metrology" since I've already made more detailed references to them recently enough).

> Berriman was an Oxford professor and had access to
> the Oxford library and his studies were his
> private work.
> The point i am trying to make here is that until
> we all realise whose analysis we are using or
> almost using correctly the same theories will
> appear with different calculations over and over
> again.

If so, I think it may happen rather easily because Berriman's relationships between units are quite effective, whichever particular numbers we are using.

> This was happening over 10 years ago on this very
> website, nothing has changed.

One would hope that if some of those debates were actually settled that some of this work wouldn't have so much a cyclical nature, but I can't quite think of much to offer for constructive suggestions except being careful of accidental cross-pollination between separate sets of numbers (Michell's long and short versions of units for example).

At least based on my own experience, that may sometime make for groups of numbers that are a bit "frayed" around the edges and may never quite fit together perfectly, which can be unfortunate if one is trying to get them to fit them together perfectly.

That said, I'm that much more impressed with how well the equations in your post fit together.

Perhaps you've managed to successfully isolate a particular functional group of numbers here. I imagine some congratulations are in order whatever the case, so may I say - Nice work!


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Remen : Meridian 1953 Jim Alison 15-Nov-19 22:52
DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 151 Poster Boy 16-Nov-19 17:55
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 137 DUNE 17-Nov-19 09:56
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 111 Jim Alison 17-Nov-19 23:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 108 Poster Boy 17-Nov-19 23:59
Found it! 142 Poster Boy 18-Nov-19 02:55
Re: Found it! 110 Mercurial 20-Nov-19 11:44
Re: Found it! 95 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:42
Squaring The Circle 110 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Nov-19 18:59
Re: Squaring The Circle 109 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Squaring The Circle 108 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:22
Remen references 119 Lee McGiffen 21-Nov-19 01:59
Re: Remen references 121 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 04:29
Re: Remen references 91 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 13:56
Re: Remen references 70 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 20:05
Re: Remen references 88 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 21:17
Re: Remen references 75 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 01:24
Re: Remen references 76 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 12:10
Re: Remen references 102 DUNE 25-Nov-19 13:17
Re: Remen references 46 Jim Alison 16-Jan-20 20:22
Drastic Geodetic Measures and Nippur Cubit 88 thinkitover 25-Nov-19 06:46
Re: Remen references 92 Jim Alison 26-Nov-19 08:04
Re: Remen references 99 Lee McGiffen 27-Nov-19 12:54
Re: Remen references 79 Mercurial 28-Nov-19 22:32
Re: Remen references 104 Jim Alison 01-Dec-19 06:15
Re: Squaring The Circle 122 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 00:47
Re: Squaring The Circle 84 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 02:32
Re: Squaring The Circle 88 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 05:20
Re: Squaring The Circle 131 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 06:26
Egyptian knowledge of √2 89 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:39
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 73 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 01:19
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 97 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 09:45
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 78 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 14:42
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 73 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 16:10
Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 84 geoffss 21-Nov-19 10:49
Re: Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 79 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 11:54
Re: Squaring The Circle 45 molder 20-Dec-19 12:45
Re: Found it! 93 Mercurial 22-Nov-19 06:48
Re: Found it! 88 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 12:01
Re: Found it! 84 Poster Boy 22-Nov-19 15:24
Re: Found it! 88 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 23:55
Re: Found it! 76 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 02:06
Re: Found it! 77 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 02:36
Re: Found it! 76 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Found it! 84 DUNE 23-Nov-19 18:42
Re: Found it! 71 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 19:37
Re: Found it! 80 DUNE 23-Nov-19 20:14
Re: Found it! 72 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 20:27
Re: Found it! 72 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 20:46
Re: Found it! 78 DUNE 23-Nov-19 21:37
Re: Found it! 76 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 21:55
Re: Found it! 80 DUNE 23-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Found it! 72 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 22:44
Re: Found it! 105 Poster Boy 24-Nov-19 17:44
Re: Found it! 77 DUNE 24-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Found it! 79 Poster Boy 24-Nov-19 18:34
Re: Found it! 77 Poster Boy 23-Nov-19 20:59
Re: Found it! 73 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 19:55
Totally debunked 78 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 05:23
NOT Totally debunked 73 Poster Boy 24-Nov-19 05:41
eg: NOT Totally debunked 85 Poster Boy 24-Nov-19 06:12
Khufu <> Khafre 93 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 00:28
Re: Khufu <> Khafre 69 Mercurial 24-Nov-19 19:12
Khufu <> Khafre - Update 33 Dr. Troglodyte 11-Jan-20 19:56
Re: Found it! 92 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:35
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 92 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 82 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:05
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 88 magisterchessmutt 20-Nov-19 00:27
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 80 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 15:34
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 78 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:49
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 84 DUNE 19-Nov-19 10:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 78 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:22
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 79 DUNE 19-Nov-19 15:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 75 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 00:44
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 91 Poster Boy 19-Nov-19 16:43
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 78 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 01:07
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 95 Poster Boy 20-Nov-19 01:38
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 80 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:28
Where is this leading? 86 Poster Boy 21-Nov-19 17:19
Re: Where is this leading? 86 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 100 Poster Boy 16-Nov-19 18:00
Re: Remen : Meridian 98 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:09
Excellent! 103 thinkitover 16-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Excellent! 131 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Excellent! 103 Lee McGiffen 18-Nov-19 07:36
Re: Excellent! 105 Jim Alison 18-Nov-19 15:55
Re: Excellent! 101 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:57
Re: Remen : Meridian 93 Spiros 20-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 83 Spiros 20-Nov-19 19:28
Re: Remen : Meridian 83 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 75 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:25
Re: Remen : Meridian 98 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 82 Spiros 20-Nov-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 91 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 23:40
The Earth number 139 hendrik dirker 21-Nov-19 05:48
Re: The Earth number 118 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 13:15
Re: The Earth number 98 molder 22-Nov-19 19:30
Re: The Earth number 80 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:44
Geometry as Metrology? 99 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 22:56
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 89 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 00:04
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 94 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 01:16
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 99 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:36
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 123 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 125 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 02:38
Re: Remen : Meridian 88 DavidK 11-Dec-19 23:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 74 DavidK 12-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Remen : Meridian 64 thinkitover 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 75 DavidK 12-Dec-19 21:27
Re: Remen : Meridian 56 Jiri Mruzek 13-Dec-19 00:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 54 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 57 Jim Alison 13-Dec-19 03:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 56 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 04:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 56 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 58 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 57 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:15
Re: Remen : Meridian 50 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 11:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 68 DavidK 13-Dec-19 11:07
Re: Earth circumference 76 drew 17-Dec-19 23:57
Re: Earth circumference 76 DavidK 18-Dec-19 11:29
Re: Earth circumference 82 drew 20-Dec-19 00:22
Re: Earth circumference 67 hendrik dirker 20-Dec-19 06:07
Re: Earth circumference 66 DavidK 20-Dec-19 13:27
Re: Earth circumference 48 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 12:48
Re: Earth circumference 59 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 20:48
Re: Earth circumference 55 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 11:44
Re: Earth circumference 51 drew 20-Dec-19 23:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 56 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 19:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 58 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 01:54
Re: Remen : Meridian 55 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 04:30
Re: Remen : Meridian 46 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 07:43
Re: Remen : Meridian 50 DavidK 21-Dec-19 10:56
Re: Remen : Meridian 55 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 49 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 43 DavidK 21-Dec-19 16:08
Re: Remen : Meridian 65 DavidK 21-Dec-19 12:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 50 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Remen : Meridian 47 molder 21-Dec-19 20:33
Re: Remen : Meridian 44 DavidK 21-Dec-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 49 Jim Alison 22-Dec-19 03:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 51 DavidK 22-Dec-19 10:30
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 50 molder 22-Dec-19 13:03
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 47 DavidK 22-Dec-19 15:01
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 60 magisterchessmutt 22-Dec-19 17:13
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 62 DavidK 22-Dec-19 17:32
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 56 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 05:23
Stecchini's Metrics 54 thinkitover 21-Dec-19 16:01
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 61 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 54 thinkitover 24-Dec-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 55 drew 23-Dec-19 00:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 54 Jim Alison 23-Dec-19 02:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 64 DavidK 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Remen : Meridian 70 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 01:09
Re: Remen : Meridian 45 drew 27-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 53 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:59
Re: Remen : Meridian 50 drew 28-Dec-19 22:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 87 DavidK 29-Dec-19 00:50
Re: Remen : Meridian 51 Jim Alison 11-Jan-20 03:53
Re: Remen : Meridian 46 DavidK 11-Jan-20 13:54
The Egyptian Remen 14.58333r inches 55 DavidK 11-Jan-20 16:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 38 Jim Alison 22-Jan-20 00:10
Re: Remen : Meridian 26 Mercurial 22-Jan-20 20:59
say hello to rodz? 54 DavidK 11-Jan-20 18:01
Re: say hello to rodz? 40 thinkitover 12-Jan-20 06:03
Re: say hello to rodz? 46 DavidK 12-Jan-20 12:45
Re: say hello to rodz? 45 thinkitover 13-Jan-20 06:41

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