Mysteries :  The Official forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
DavidK Wrote:
> 'This inquiry reveals the oldest extant
> weights and measures linked by significant
> magnitude ratios to those current in historical
> times, and suggests that this ancient metrology
> was geodetic in origin.

I feel like quite the ass (and probably should) for saying anything like this in response to such an utterly commendable post about Berriman, but sadly this may be a part of Jim Alison's (or others') quite impressive and exemplary work that I cannot quite bring myself to agree with - would it quite make sense that geodesy should precede metrology?

The closest I seem to be able to comfortably get is that this ancient metrology was geodetic in application, even if it's still not perfectly clear if the ultimate application were geodetic measurement or geodetic modelling.

Perhaps there is no single ultimate application, but I notice I'm not the only one whose work seems to indicate geodetic modelling at ratios like 1 foot:1 mile, and that's still all I really know to do with a precisely 5280 mile even now is simply accept that ratio to the foot, rather than trying to make the mile relate to other units in a directly derivative way.

Like the foot itself perhaps, the 5280 foot mile may exist mainly to give meaning to other units. Reading some of these discussions, I've recently begun to wonder it that isn't where an ancient meter would also fit it - whether it wouldn't fit better into the scheme of things to simply accept its value in relation to other units, rather than trying to get the meter to relate to other units in a direct or derivative way.

Perhaps not on the other hand, I recently found a page from one of Munck's publications in a reference binder stating that a basic unit of conventional longitude at one of the Egyptian pyramid fields is 5277 feet. That may try to keep me up at night...

> So what you are doing without realising is
> repeating Berriman's calculations to support his
> argument without quite getting them to agree his.

Perhaps some of us independent minded types are more eager to participate in consensus when we don't realize that that's what we're doing? lol

I think I'm probably most likely to achieve some consensus with Jim Wakefield because he's not afraid of the Pi ratio, lol. I was quite amused and delighted to find an old post of yours with one of my Stonehenge numbers verbatim after you'd looked at some of his work. :-)

For myself, I think where Berriman undoubtedly shines is in recognizing relationships between units, as opposed to necessarily in recognizing the absolute nature of some of those units or their origins, just as I likewise think where Petrie shines is the securing of data as opposed to necessarily in the interpretation of it. I don't know if it's quite fair to expect any trailblazer get everything right, come to think of it.

(I think I will leave Petrie's struggles with the Royal Cubit to speak for themselves as to the possible perils of what has to be one of the most fundamental premises of "inductive metrology" since I've already made more detailed references to them recently enough).

> Berriman was an Oxford professor and had access to
> the Oxford library and his studies were his
> private work.
> The point i am trying to make here is that until
> we all realise whose analysis we are using or
> almost using correctly the same theories will
> appear with different calculations over and over
> again.

If so, I think it may happen rather easily because Berriman's relationships between units are quite effective, whichever particular numbers we are using.

> This was happening over 10 years ago on this very
> website, nothing has changed.

One would hope that if some of those debates were actually settled that some of this work wouldn't have so much a cyclical nature, but I can't quite think of much to offer for constructive suggestions except being careful of accidental cross-pollination between separate sets of numbers (Michell's long and short versions of units for example).

At least based on my own experience, that may sometime make for groups of numbers that are a bit "frayed" around the edges and may never quite fit together perfectly, which can be unfortunate if one is trying to get them to fit them together perfectly.

That said, I'm that much more impressed with how well the equations in your post fit together.

Perhaps you've managed to successfully isolate a particular functional group of numbers here. I imagine some congratulations are in order whatever the case, so may I say - Nice work!


Options: ReplyQuote

Subject Views Written By Posted
Remen : Meridian 2308 Jim Alison 15-Nov-19 22:52
DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 221 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 17:55
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 206 DUNE 17-Nov-19 09:56
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 178 Jim Alison 17-Nov-19 23:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 182 PB Bytes 17-Nov-19 23:59
Found it! 226 PB Bytes 18-Nov-19 02:55
Re: Found it! 183 Mercurial 20-Nov-19 11:44
Re: Found it! 164 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:42
Squaring The Circle 193 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Nov-19 18:59
Re: Squaring The Circle 187 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Squaring The Circle 177 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:22
Remen references 195 Lee McGiffen 21-Nov-19 01:59
Re: Remen references 199 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 04:29
Re: Remen references 168 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 13:56
Re: Remen references 139 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 20:05
Re: Remen references 156 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 21:17
Re: Remen references 140 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 01:24
Re: Remen references 140 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 12:10
Re: Remen references 179 DUNE 25-Nov-19 13:17
Re: Remen references 112 Jim Alison 16-Jan-20 20:22
Drastic Geodetic Measures and Nippur Cubit 182 thinkitover 25-Nov-19 06:46
Re: Remen references 167 Jim Alison 26-Nov-19 08:04
Re: Remen references 189 Lee McGiffen 27-Nov-19 12:54
Re: Remen references 147 Mercurial 28-Nov-19 22:32
Re: Remen references 197 Jim Alison 01-Dec-19 06:15
Re: Squaring The Circle 200 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 00:47
Re: Squaring The Circle 156 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 02:32
Re: Squaring The Circle 153 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 05:20
Re: Squaring The Circle 216 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 06:26
Egyptian knowledge of √2 156 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:39
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 136 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 01:19
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 169 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 09:45
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 144 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 14:42
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 140 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 16:10
Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 150 geoffss 21-Nov-19 10:49
Re: Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 147 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 11:54
Re: Squaring The Circle 115 molder 20-Dec-19 12:45
Re: Found it! 169 Mercurial 22-Nov-19 06:48
Re: Found it! 157 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 12:01
Re: Found it! 153 PB Bytes 22-Nov-19 15:24
Re: Found it! 183 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 23:55
Re: Found it! 145 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 02:06
Re: Found it! 145 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 02:36
Re: Found it! 145 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Found it! 148 DUNE 23-Nov-19 18:42
Re: Found it! 135 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 19:37
Re: Found it! 146 DUNE 23-Nov-19 20:14
Re: Found it! 135 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:27
Re: Found it! 136 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:46
Re: Found it! 143 DUNE 23-Nov-19 21:37
Re: Found it! 143 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 21:55
Re: Found it! 148 DUNE 23-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Found it! 139 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 22:44
Re: Found it! 194 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 17:44
Re: Found it! 152 DUNE 24-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Found it! 151 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 18:34
Re: Found it! 145 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:59
Re: Found it! 143 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 19:55
Totally debunked 147 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 05:23
NOT Totally debunked 139 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 05:41
eg: NOT Totally debunked 149 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 06:12
Khufu <> Khafre 163 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 00:28
Re: Khufu <> Khafre 139 Mercurial 24-Nov-19 19:12
Khufu <> Khafre - Update 98 Dr. Troglodyte 11-Jan-20 19:56
Re: Found it! 161 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:35
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 156 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 148 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:05
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 152 magisterchessmutt 20-Nov-19 00:27
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 146 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 15:34
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 141 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:49
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 150 DUNE 19-Nov-19 10:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 147 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:22
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 146 DUNE 19-Nov-19 15:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 141 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 00:44
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 158 PB Bytes 19-Nov-19 16:43
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 144 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 01:07
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 166 PB Bytes 20-Nov-19 01:38
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 145 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:28
Where is this leading? 153 PB Bytes 21-Nov-19 17:19
Re: Where is this leading? 158 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 165 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 18:00
Re: Remen : Meridian 164 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:09
Excellent! 171 thinkitover 16-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Excellent! 201 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Excellent! 173 Lee McGiffen 18-Nov-19 07:36
Re: Excellent! 179 Jim Alison 18-Nov-19 15:55
Re: Excellent! 169 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:57
Re: Remen : Meridian 162 Spiros 20-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 155 Spiros 20-Nov-19 19:28
Re: Remen : Meridian 149 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 145 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:25
Re: Remen : Meridian 181 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 155 Spiros 20-Nov-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 155 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 23:40
The Earth number 209 hendrik dirker 21-Nov-19 05:48
Re: The Earth number 181 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 13:15
Re: The Earth number 164 molder 22-Nov-19 19:30
Re: The Earth number 147 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:44
Geometry as Metrology? 173 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 22:56
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 161 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 00:04
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 165 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 01:16
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 187 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:36
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 195 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 231 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 02:38
Re: Remen : Meridian 165 DavidK 11-Dec-19 23:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 147 DavidK 12-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Remen : Meridian 155 thinkitover 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 172 DavidK 12-Dec-19 21:27
Re: Remen : Meridian 126 Jiri Mruzek 13-Dec-19 00:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 119 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 127 Jim Alison 13-Dec-19 03:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 119 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 04:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 119 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 122 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 123 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:15
Re: Remen : Meridian 118 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 11:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 135 DavidK 13-Dec-19 11:07
Re: Earth circumference 149 drew 17-Dec-19 23:57
Re: Earth circumference 155 DavidK 18-Dec-19 11:29
Re: Earth circumference 150 drew 20-Dec-19 00:22
Re: Earth circumference 140 hendrik dirker 20-Dec-19 06:07
Re: Earth circumference 133 DavidK 20-Dec-19 13:27
Re: Earth circumference 118 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 12:48
Re: Earth circumference 127 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 20:48
Re: Earth circumference 131 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 11:44
Re: Earth circumference 117 drew 20-Dec-19 23:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 123 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 19:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 124 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 01:54
Re: Remen : Meridian 123 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 04:30
Re: Remen : Meridian 115 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 07:43
Re: Remen : Meridian 117 DavidK 21-Dec-19 10:56
Re: Remen : Meridian 121 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 115 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 110 DavidK 21-Dec-19 16:08
Re: Remen : Meridian 136 DavidK 21-Dec-19 12:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 117 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Remen : Meridian 116 molder 21-Dec-19 20:33
Re: Remen : Meridian 107 DavidK 21-Dec-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 116 Jim Alison 22-Dec-19 03:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 113 DavidK 22-Dec-19 10:30
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 117 molder 22-Dec-19 13:03
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 111 DavidK 22-Dec-19 15:01
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 122 magisterchessmutt 22-Dec-19 17:13
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 127 DavidK 22-Dec-19 17:32
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 120 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 05:23
Stecchini's Metrics 118 thinkitover 21-Dec-19 16:01
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 125 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 118 thinkitover 24-Dec-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 122 drew 23-Dec-19 00:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 118 Jim Alison 23-Dec-19 02:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 132 DavidK 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Remen : Meridian 134 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 01:09
Re: Remen : Meridian 113 drew 27-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 128 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:59
Re: Remen : Meridian 125 drew 28-Dec-19 22:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 167 DavidK 29-Dec-19 00:50
Re: Remen : Meridian 82 Jim Alison 19-Apr-20 18:46
Re: Remen : Meridian 63 drew 22-Apr-20 23:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 73 magisterchessmutt 23-Apr-20 13:03
Re: Remen : Meridian 79 magisterchessmutt 24-Apr-20 08:14
Re: Remen : Meridian 118 Jim Alison 11-Jan-20 03:53
Re: Remen : Meridian 108 DavidK 11-Jan-20 13:54
The Egyptian Remen 14.58333r inches 140 DavidK 11-Jan-20 16:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 106 Jim Alison 22-Jan-20 00:10
Re: Remen : Meridian 107 Mercurial 22-Jan-20 20:59
say hello to rodz? 126 DavidK 11-Jan-20 18:01
Re: say hello to rodz? 108 thinkitover 12-Jan-20 06:03
Re: say hello to rodz? 118 DavidK 12-Jan-20 12:45
Re: say hello to rodz? 139 thinkitover 13-Jan-20 06:41
Re: Remen : Meridian 104 akitu 24-Apr-20 19:26

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.