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DavidK Wrote:
> 'This inquiry reveals the oldest extant
> weights and measures linked by significant
> magnitude ratios to those current in historical
> times, and suggests that this ancient metrology
> was geodetic in origin.

I feel like quite the ass (and probably should) for saying anything like this in response to such an utterly commendable post about Berriman, but sadly this may be a part of Jim Alison's (or others') quite impressive and exemplary work that I cannot quite bring myself to agree with - would it quite make sense that geodesy should precede metrology?

The closest I seem to be able to comfortably get is that this ancient metrology was geodetic in application, even if it's still not perfectly clear if the ultimate application were geodetic measurement or geodetic modelling.

Perhaps there is no single ultimate application, but I notice I'm not the only one whose work seems to indicate geodetic modelling at ratios like 1 foot:1 mile, and that's still all I really know to do with a precisely 5280 mile even now is simply accept that ratio to the foot, rather than trying to make the mile relate to other units in a directly derivative way.

Like the foot itself perhaps, the 5280 foot mile may exist mainly to give meaning to other units. Reading some of these discussions, I've recently begun to wonder it that isn't where an ancient meter would also fit it - whether it wouldn't fit better into the scheme of things to simply accept its value in relation to other units, rather than trying to get the meter to relate to other units in a direct or derivative way.

Perhaps not on the other hand, I recently found a page from one of Munck's publications in a reference binder stating that a basic unit of conventional longitude at one of the Egyptian pyramid fields is 5277 feet. That may try to keep me up at night...

> So what you are doing without realising is
> repeating Berriman's calculations to support his
> argument without quite getting them to agree his.

Perhaps some of us independent minded types are more eager to participate in consensus when we don't realize that that's what we're doing? lol

I think I'm probably most likely to achieve some consensus with Jim Wakefield because he's not afraid of the Pi ratio, lol. I was quite amused and delighted to find an old post of yours with one of my Stonehenge numbers verbatim after you'd looked at some of his work. :-)

For myself, I think where Berriman undoubtedly shines is in recognizing relationships between units, as opposed to necessarily in recognizing the absolute nature of some of those units or their origins, just as I likewise think where Petrie shines is the securing of data as opposed to necessarily in the interpretation of it. I don't know if it's quite fair to expect any trailblazer get everything right, come to think of it.

(I think I will leave Petrie's struggles with the Royal Cubit to speak for themselves as to the possible perils of what has to be one of the most fundamental premises of "inductive metrology" since I've already made more detailed references to them recently enough).

> Berriman was an Oxford professor and had access to
> the Oxford library and his studies were his
> private work.
> The point i am trying to make here is that until
> we all realise whose analysis we are using or
> almost using correctly the same theories will
> appear with different calculations over and over
> again.

If so, I think it may happen rather easily because Berriman's relationships between units are quite effective, whichever particular numbers we are using.

> This was happening over 10 years ago on this very
> website, nothing has changed.

One would hope that if some of those debates were actually settled that some of this work wouldn't have so much a cyclical nature, but I can't quite think of much to offer for constructive suggestions except being careful of accidental cross-pollination between separate sets of numbers (Michell's long and short versions of units for example).

At least based on my own experience, that may sometime make for groups of numbers that are a bit "frayed" around the edges and may never quite fit together perfectly, which can be unfortunate if one is trying to get them to fit them together perfectly.

That said, I'm that much more impressed with how well the equations in your post fit together.

Perhaps you've managed to successfully isolate a particular functional group of numbers here. I imagine some congratulations are in order whatever the case, so may I say - Nice work!


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Remen : Meridian 2637 Jim Alison 15-Nov-19 22:52
DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 329 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 17:55
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 318 DUNE 17-Nov-19 09:56
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 296 Jim Alison 17-Nov-19 23:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 298 PB Bytes 17-Nov-19 23:59
Found it! 337 PB Bytes 18-Nov-19 02:55
Re: Found it! 296 Mercurial 20-Nov-19 11:44
Re: Found it! 279 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:42
Squaring The Circle 306 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Nov-19 18:59
Re: Squaring The Circle 300 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Squaring The Circle 293 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:22
Remen references 316 Lee McGiffen 21-Nov-19 01:59
Re: Remen references 316 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 04:29
Re: Remen references 284 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 13:56
Re: Remen references 253 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 20:05
Re: Remen references 279 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 21:17
Re: Remen references 260 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 01:24
Re: Remen references 249 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 12:10
Re: Remen references 305 DUNE 25-Nov-19 13:17
Re: Remen references 216 Jim Alison 16-Jan-20 20:22
Drastic Geodetic Measures and Nippur Cubit 298 thinkitover 25-Nov-19 06:46
Re: Remen references 284 Jim Alison 26-Nov-19 08:04
Re: Remen references 316 Lee McGiffen 27-Nov-19 12:54
Re: Remen references 263 Mercurial 28-Nov-19 22:32
Re: Remen references 331 Jim Alison 01-Dec-19 06:15
Re: Squaring The Circle 325 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 00:47
Re: Squaring The Circle 271 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 02:32
Re: Squaring The Circle 265 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 05:20
Re: Squaring The Circle 342 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 06:26
Egyptian knowledge of √2 265 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:39
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 238 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 01:19
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 288 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 09:45
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 254 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 14:42
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 248 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 16:10
Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 269 geoffss 21-Nov-19 10:49
Re: Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 263 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 11:54
Re: Squaring The Circle 227 molder 20-Dec-19 12:45
Re: Found it! 300 Mercurial 22-Nov-19 06:48
Re: Found it! 264 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 12:01
Re: Found it! 259 PB Bytes 22-Nov-19 15:24
Re: Found it! 298 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 23:55
Re: Found it! 257 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 02:06
Re: Found it! 252 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 02:36
Re: Found it! 247 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Found it! 257 DUNE 23-Nov-19 18:42
Re: Found it! 240 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 19:37
Re: Found it! 258 DUNE 23-Nov-19 20:14
Re: Found it! 247 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:27
Re: Found it! 244 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:46
Re: Found it! 248 DUNE 23-Nov-19 21:37
Re: Found it! 250 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 21:55
Re: Found it! 253 DUNE 23-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Found it! 244 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 22:44
Re: Found it! 304 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 17:44
Re: Found it! 260 DUNE 24-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Found it! 266 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 18:34
Re: Found it! 251 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:59
Re: Found it! 247 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 19:55
Totally debunked 256 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 05:23
NOT Totally debunked 245 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 05:41
eg: NOT Totally debunked 265 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 06:12
Khufu <> Khafre 284 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 00:28
Re: Khufu <> Khafre 247 Mercurial 24-Nov-19 19:12
Khufu <> Khafre - Update 210 Dr. Troglodyte 11-Jan-20 19:56
Re: Found it! 271 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:35
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 262 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 256 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:05
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 274 magisterchessmutt 20-Nov-19 00:27
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 259 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 15:34
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 258 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:49
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 262 DUNE 19-Nov-19 10:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 258 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:22
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 249 DUNE 19-Nov-19 15:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 250 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 00:44
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 272 PB Bytes 19-Nov-19 16:43
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 257 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 01:07
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 283 PB Bytes 20-Nov-19 01:38
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 255 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:28
Where is this leading? 263 PB Bytes 21-Nov-19 17:19
Re: Where is this leading? 275 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 272 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 18:00
Re: Remen : Meridian 275 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:09
Excellent! 283 thinkitover 16-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Excellent! 320 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Excellent! 305 Lee McGiffen 18-Nov-19 07:36
Re: Excellent! 299 Jim Alison 18-Nov-19 15:55
Re: Excellent! 278 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:57
Re: Remen : Meridian 273 Spiros 20-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 267 Spiros 20-Nov-19 19:28
Re: Remen : Meridian 263 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 259 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:25
Re: Remen : Meridian 293 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 272 Spiros 20-Nov-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 265 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 23:40
The Earth number 336 hendrik dirker 21-Nov-19 05:48
Re: The Earth number 287 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 13:15
Re: The Earth number 283 molder 22-Nov-19 19:30
Re: The Earth number 257 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:44
Geometry as Metrology? 309 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 22:56
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 272 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 00:04
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 281 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 01:16
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 310 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:36
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 311 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 416 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 02:38
Re: Remen : Meridian 283 DavidK 11-Dec-19 23:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 266 DavidK 12-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Remen : Meridian 313 thinkitover 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 287 DavidK 12-Dec-19 21:27
Re: Remen : Meridian 240 Jiri Mruzek 13-Dec-19 00:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 226 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 241 Jim Alison 13-Dec-19 03:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 232 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 04:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 229 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 229 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 233 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:15
Re: Remen : Meridian 234 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 11:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 249 DavidK 13-Dec-19 11:07
Re: Earth circumference 308 drew 17-Dec-19 23:57
Re: Earth circumference 288 DavidK 18-Dec-19 11:29
Re: Earth circumference 256 drew 20-Dec-19 00:22
Re: Earth circumference 261 hendrik dirker 20-Dec-19 06:07
Re: Earth circumference 239 DavidK 20-Dec-19 13:27
Re: Earth circumference 228 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 12:48
Re: Earth circumference 242 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 20:48
Re: Earth circumference 241 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 11:44
Re: Earth circumference 222 drew 20-Dec-19 23:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 230 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 19:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 227 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 01:54
Re: Remen : Meridian 234 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 04:30
Re: Remen : Meridian 230 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 07:43
Re: Remen : Meridian 228 DavidK 21-Dec-19 10:56
Re: Remen : Meridian 228 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 220 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 214 DavidK 21-Dec-19 16:08
Re: Remen : Meridian 243 DavidK 21-Dec-19 12:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 228 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Remen : Meridian 222 molder 21-Dec-19 20:33
Re: Remen : Meridian 217 DavidK 21-Dec-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 217 Jim Alison 22-Dec-19 03:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 214 DavidK 22-Dec-19 10:30
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 227 molder 22-Dec-19 13:03
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 220 DavidK 22-Dec-19 15:01
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 225 magisterchessmutt 22-Dec-19 17:13
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 231 DavidK 22-Dec-19 17:32
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 226 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 05:23
Stecchini's Metrics 224 thinkitover 21-Dec-19 16:01
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 226 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 227 thinkitover 24-Dec-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 227 drew 23-Dec-19 00:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 219 Jim Alison 23-Dec-19 02:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 238 DavidK 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Remen : Meridian 239 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 01:09
Re: Remen : Meridian 217 drew 27-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 235 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:59
Re: Remen : Meridian 235 drew 28-Dec-19 22:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 291 DavidK 29-Dec-19 00:50
Re: Remen : Meridian 195 Jim Alison 19-Apr-20 18:46
Re: Remen : Meridian 174 drew 22-Apr-20 23:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 187 magisterchessmutt 23-Apr-20 13:03
Re: Remen : Meridian 195 magisterchessmutt 24-Apr-20 08:14
Re: Remen : Meridian 221 Jim Alison 11-Jan-20 03:53
Re: Remen : Meridian 214 DavidK 11-Jan-20 13:54
The Egyptian Remen 14.58333r inches 363 DavidK 11-Jan-20 16:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 215 Jim Alison 22-Jan-20 00:10
Re: Remen : Meridian 206 Mercurial 22-Jan-20 20:59
say hello to rodz? 234 DavidK 11-Jan-20 18:01
Re: say hello to rodz? 217 thinkitover 12-Jan-20 06:03
Re: say hello to rodz? 222 DavidK 12-Jan-20 12:45
Re: say hello to rodz? 298 thinkitover 13-Jan-20 06:41
Re: Remen : Meridian 248 akitu 24-Apr-20 19:26

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