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Jim Alison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Lee,
>
> I just took another look at Ancient Egyptian
> Science: Ancient Egyptian Mathematics, by Clagett.
> In the text he mentions the description by
> Lepsius of the remen length on one of the cubit
> rods, but take a look at his illustrations of
> cubit rods at the back of the book. The first
> illustration, of the wooden cubit rod at Turin
> (Fig IV.24.1) which he references to Lepsius and
> which is the one I think he is talking about in
> the text, shows the royal cubit hieroglyph over
> digits 25-28, shows the short (6 palm) cubit
> hieroglyph over digits 21-24, and shows the remen
> hieroglyph over the fifth palm (digits 17-20).
> Figure IV.24.2 on the next page does not show the
> hieroglyphs for the royal cubit, the standard
> cubit, or the remen. Figure IV.24.3 is a broken
> up stone cubit rod at Florence and reads from
> right to left, and digits 21-24 are missing, but
> you can see the royal cubit hieroglyph over digits
> 25-28, and the remen hieroglyph over the fifth
> palm (digits 17-20). Figures IV.24.4 and IV.24.5
> do not show the hieroglyphs for the royal cubit,
> standard cubit, or remen. Fig IV.24.6, from
> Alexandria?, shows the remen hieroglyph over the
> fifth palm (digits 17-20). Figures IV.24.8 and 9
> do not show the hieroglyphs for royal cubit,
> standard cubit, or remen. Fig IV.24.10 is I think
> a reproduction cubit rod at Leiden of the Fig
> IV.24.6 cubit rod, and it also shows the remen
> hieroglpyh over the fifth palm (digits 17-20).
> According to the article from the Met Museum cited
> in my article (also cited elsewhere) the gold
> plated cubit rod at Turin also shows the remen at
> the fifth palm (digits 17-20), and also the cubit
> rods at Cairo I cited above from de Lubicz. My
> understanding is that the surviving cubit rods
> that have the hierophlyphs for the royal cubit and
> the short cubit, also have the hieroglyph for the remen.

There are indeed several cubit rods that show the remen as 5 palms, but still no textual evidence of the remen in the literature, except for RMP 49, which refers to a "remen ifd" (rectangle) using the Gardiner sign D41 for remen. The rectangle described has dimensions 2 khet x 10 khet, and the student is asked to find the resulting acreage. The workings to this problem show that the remen means half the area, which does not jive with the meaning of half-diagonal of a square. Jose Galan has said the remen of the rectangle refers to the right triangle formed by the diagonal and which cuts the rectangle in half, hence is half the area.

As confusing as this may sound, RMP 49 is the only papyrus that ever uses the remen sign, but it is not in the context of a measure of 5 palms.

On the other hand, I am in the middle of reading Lumpkin's article "The Mathematical Legacy of Ancient Egypt," and she cites an 1892 article by Griffith which refers to an inscription at Edfu using the remen sign to describe half a setat, which is configured as 50c x 100c. The side of the square which generates the half-setat IS the half-diagonal of the setat (100c x 100c square), which is 70 cubits 5 palms (or 495 palms). This produces the √2 values of 99/70 and 140/99.

These are the √2 values found in the pyramid bases. The pyramid of Userkaf, with its base of 140 cubits, has a whole cubit diagonal of 198 cubits, demonstrating the two canonical values of √2.

Here is Griffith's 1892 article. [www.mindserpent.com]

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Remen : Meridian 2309 Jim Alison 15-Nov-19 22:52
DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 221 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 17:55
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 207 DUNE 17-Nov-19 09:56
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 178 Jim Alison 17-Nov-19 23:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 182 PB Bytes 17-Nov-19 23:59
Found it! 226 PB Bytes 18-Nov-19 02:55
Re: Found it! 183 Mercurial 20-Nov-19 11:44
Re: Found it! 164 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:42
Squaring The Circle 193 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Nov-19 18:59
Re: Squaring The Circle 187 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Squaring The Circle 178 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:22
Remen references 195 Lee McGiffen 21-Nov-19 01:59
Re: Remen references 200 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 04:29
Re: Remen references 168 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 13:56
Re: Remen references 139 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 20:05
Re: Remen references 156 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 21:17
Re: Remen references 141 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 01:24
Re: Remen references 140 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 12:10
Re: Remen references 179 DUNE 25-Nov-19 13:17
Re: Remen references 114 Jim Alison 16-Jan-20 20:22
Drastic Geodetic Measures and Nippur Cubit 182 thinkitover 25-Nov-19 06:46
Re: Remen references 167 Jim Alison 26-Nov-19 08:04
Re: Remen references 190 Lee McGiffen 27-Nov-19 12:54
Re: Remen references 147 Mercurial 28-Nov-19 22:32
Re: Remen references 198 Jim Alison 01-Dec-19 06:15
Re: Squaring The Circle 200 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 00:47
Re: Squaring The Circle 156 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 02:32
Re: Squaring The Circle 153 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 05:20
Re: Squaring The Circle 216 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 06:26
Egyptian knowledge of √2 157 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:39
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 136 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 01:19
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 169 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 09:45
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 144 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 14:42
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 140 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 16:10
Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 151 geoffss 21-Nov-19 10:49
Re: Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 148 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 11:54
Re: Squaring The Circle 115 molder 20-Dec-19 12:45
Re: Found it! 169 Mercurial 22-Nov-19 06:48
Re: Found it! 158 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 12:01
Re: Found it! 153 PB Bytes 22-Nov-19 15:24
Re: Found it! 184 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 23:55
Re: Found it! 146 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 02:06
Re: Found it! 145 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 02:36
Re: Found it! 145 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Found it! 148 DUNE 23-Nov-19 18:42
Re: Found it! 135 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 19:37
Re: Found it! 147 DUNE 23-Nov-19 20:14
Re: Found it! 136 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:27
Re: Found it! 137 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:46
Re: Found it! 143 DUNE 23-Nov-19 21:37
Re: Found it! 143 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 21:55
Re: Found it! 149 DUNE 23-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Found it! 140 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 22:44
Re: Found it! 194 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 17:44
Re: Found it! 152 DUNE 24-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Found it! 153 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 18:34
Re: Found it! 146 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:59
Re: Found it! 143 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 19:55
Totally debunked 147 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 05:23
NOT Totally debunked 139 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 05:41
eg: NOT Totally debunked 150 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 06:12
Khufu <> Khafre 163 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 00:28
Re: Khufu <> Khafre 140 Mercurial 24-Nov-19 19:12
Khufu <> Khafre - Update 99 Dr. Troglodyte 11-Jan-20 19:56
Re: Found it! 161 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:35
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 156 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 148 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:05
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 152 magisterchessmutt 20-Nov-19 00:27
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 146 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 15:34
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 142 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:49
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 151 DUNE 19-Nov-19 10:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 147 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:22
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 146 DUNE 19-Nov-19 15:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 141 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 00:44
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 159 PB Bytes 19-Nov-19 16:43
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 145 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 01:07
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 166 PB Bytes 20-Nov-19 01:38
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 145 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:28
Where is this leading? 153 PB Bytes 21-Nov-19 17:19
Re: Where is this leading? 159 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 166 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 18:00
Re: Remen : Meridian 164 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:09
Excellent! 172 thinkitover 16-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Excellent! 201 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Excellent! 173 Lee McGiffen 18-Nov-19 07:36
Re: Excellent! 179 Jim Alison 18-Nov-19 15:55
Re: Excellent! 169 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:57
Re: Remen : Meridian 163 Spiros 20-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 155 Spiros 20-Nov-19 19:28
Re: Remen : Meridian 150 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 145 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:25
Re: Remen : Meridian 181 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 155 Spiros 20-Nov-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 156 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 23:40
The Earth number 209 hendrik dirker 21-Nov-19 05:48
Re: The Earth number 182 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 13:15
Re: The Earth number 165 molder 22-Nov-19 19:30
Re: The Earth number 148 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:44
Geometry as Metrology? 173 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 22:56
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 162 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 00:04
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 165 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 01:16
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 188 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:36
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 195 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 232 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 02:38
Re: Remen : Meridian 165 DavidK 11-Dec-19 23:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 148 DavidK 12-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Remen : Meridian 156 thinkitover 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 173 DavidK 12-Dec-19 21:27
Re: Remen : Meridian 126 Jiri Mruzek 13-Dec-19 00:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 119 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 127 Jim Alison 13-Dec-19 03:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 119 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 04:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 119 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 122 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 123 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:15
Re: Remen : Meridian 118 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 11:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 136 DavidK 13-Dec-19 11:07
Re: Earth circumference 150 drew 17-Dec-19 23:57
Re: Earth circumference 156 DavidK 18-Dec-19 11:29
Re: Earth circumference 151 drew 20-Dec-19 00:22
Re: Earth circumference 140 hendrik dirker 20-Dec-19 06:07
Re: Earth circumference 133 DavidK 20-Dec-19 13:27
Re: Earth circumference 119 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 12:48
Re: Earth circumference 127 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 20:48
Re: Earth circumference 131 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 11:44
Re: Earth circumference 117 drew 20-Dec-19 23:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 124 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 19:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 125 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 01:54
Re: Remen : Meridian 124 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 04:30
Re: Remen : Meridian 115 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 07:43
Re: Remen : Meridian 117 DavidK 21-Dec-19 10:56
Re: Remen : Meridian 121 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 115 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 111 DavidK 21-Dec-19 16:08
Re: Remen : Meridian 136 DavidK 21-Dec-19 12:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 118 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Remen : Meridian 117 molder 21-Dec-19 20:33
Re: Remen : Meridian 108 DavidK 21-Dec-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 116 Jim Alison 22-Dec-19 03:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 114 DavidK 22-Dec-19 10:30
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 118 molder 22-Dec-19 13:03
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 112 DavidK 22-Dec-19 15:01
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 123 magisterchessmutt 22-Dec-19 17:13
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 127 DavidK 22-Dec-19 17:32
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 120 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 05:23
Stecchini's Metrics 118 thinkitover 21-Dec-19 16:01
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 125 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 119 thinkitover 24-Dec-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 122 drew 23-Dec-19 00:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 118 Jim Alison 23-Dec-19 02:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 132 DavidK 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Remen : Meridian 135 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 01:09
Re: Remen : Meridian 115 drew 27-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 128 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:59
Re: Remen : Meridian 125 drew 28-Dec-19 22:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 167 DavidK 29-Dec-19 00:50
Re: Remen : Meridian 83 Jim Alison 19-Apr-20 18:46
Re: Remen : Meridian 63 drew 22-Apr-20 23:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 73 magisterchessmutt 23-Apr-20 13:03
Re: Remen : Meridian 79 magisterchessmutt 24-Apr-20 08:14
Re: Remen : Meridian 119 Jim Alison 11-Jan-20 03:53
Re: Remen : Meridian 108 DavidK 11-Jan-20 13:54
The Egyptian Remen 14.58333r inches 140 DavidK 11-Jan-20 16:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 106 Jim Alison 22-Jan-20 00:10
Re: Remen : Meridian 107 Mercurial 22-Jan-20 20:59
say hello to rodz? 127 DavidK 11-Jan-20 18:01
Re: say hello to rodz? 108 thinkitover 12-Jan-20 06:03
Re: say hello to rodz? 119 DavidK 12-Jan-20 12:45
Re: say hello to rodz? 139 thinkitover 13-Jan-20 06:41
Re: Remen : Meridian 104 akitu 24-Apr-20 19:26


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