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Jim Alison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Lee,
>
> I just took another look at Ancient Egyptian
> Science: Ancient Egyptian Mathematics, by Clagett.
> In the text he mentions the description by
> Lepsius of the remen length on one of the cubit
> rods, but take a look at his illustrations of
> cubit rods at the back of the book. The first
> illustration, of the wooden cubit rod at Turin
> (Fig IV.24.1) which he references to Lepsius and
> which is the one I think he is talking about in
> the text, shows the royal cubit hieroglyph over
> digits 25-28, shows the short (6 palm) cubit
> hieroglyph over digits 21-24, and shows the remen
> hieroglyph over the fifth palm (digits 17-20).
> Figure IV.24.2 on the next page does not show the
> hieroglyphs for the royal cubit, the standard
> cubit, or the remen. Figure IV.24.3 is a broken
> up stone cubit rod at Florence and reads from
> right to left, and digits 21-24 are missing, but
> you can see the royal cubit hieroglyph over digits
> 25-28, and the remen hieroglyph over the fifth
> palm (digits 17-20). Figures IV.24.4 and IV.24.5
> do not show the hieroglyphs for the royal cubit,
> standard cubit, or remen. Fig IV.24.6, from
> Alexandria?, shows the remen hieroglyph over the
> fifth palm (digits 17-20). Figures IV.24.8 and 9
> do not show the hieroglyphs for royal cubit,
> standard cubit, or remen. Fig IV.24.10 is I think
> a reproduction cubit rod at Leiden of the Fig
> IV.24.6 cubit rod, and it also shows the remen
> hieroglpyh over the fifth palm (digits 17-20).
> According to the article from the Met Museum cited
> in my article (also cited elsewhere) the gold
> plated cubit rod at Turin also shows the remen at
> the fifth palm (digits 17-20), and also the cubit
> rods at Cairo I cited above from de Lubicz. My
> understanding is that the surviving cubit rods
> that have the hierophlyphs for the royal cubit and
> the short cubit, also have the hieroglyph for the remen.

There are indeed several cubit rods that show the remen as 5 palms, but still no textual evidence of the remen in the literature, except for RMP 49, which refers to a "remen ifd" (rectangle) using the Gardiner sign D41 for remen. The rectangle described has dimensions 2 khet x 10 khet, and the student is asked to find the resulting acreage. The workings to this problem show that the remen means half the area, which does not jive with the meaning of half-diagonal of a square. Jose Galan has said the remen of the rectangle refers to the right triangle formed by the diagonal and which cuts the rectangle in half, hence is half the area.

As confusing as this may sound, RMP 49 is the only papyrus that ever uses the remen sign, but it is not in the context of a measure of 5 palms.

On the other hand, I am in the middle of reading Lumpkin's article "The Mathematical Legacy of Ancient Egypt," and she cites an 1892 article by Griffith which refers to an inscription at Edfu using the remen sign to describe half a setat, which is configured as 50c x 100c. The side of the square which generates the half-setat IS the half-diagonal of the setat (100c x 100c square), which is 70 cubits 5 palms (or 495 palms). This produces the √2 values of 99/70 and 140/99.

These are the √2 values found in the pyramid bases. The pyramid of Userkaf, with its base of 140 cubits, has a whole cubit diagonal of 198 cubits, demonstrating the two canonical values of √2.

Here is Griffith's 1892 article. [www.mindserpent.com]

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Remen : Meridian 2621 Jim Alison 15-Nov-19 22:52
DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 323 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 17:55
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 312 DUNE 17-Nov-19 09:56
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 288 Jim Alison 17-Nov-19 23:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 291 PB Bytes 17-Nov-19 23:59
Found it! 331 PB Bytes 18-Nov-19 02:55
Re: Found it! 289 Mercurial 20-Nov-19 11:44
Re: Found it! 274 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:42
Squaring The Circle 301 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Nov-19 18:59
Re: Squaring The Circle 295 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Squaring The Circle 285 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:22
Remen references 310 Lee McGiffen 21-Nov-19 01:59
Re: Remen references 310 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 04:29
Re: Remen references 277 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 13:56
Re: Remen references 247 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 20:05
Re: Remen references 271 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 21:17
Re: Remen references 254 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 01:24
Re: Remen references 243 magisterchessmutt 25-Nov-19 12:10
Re: Remen references 299 DUNE 25-Nov-19 13:17
Re: Remen references 211 Jim Alison 16-Jan-20 20:22
Drastic Geodetic Measures and Nippur Cubit 294 thinkitover 25-Nov-19 06:46
Re: Remen references 278 Jim Alison 26-Nov-19 08:04
Re: Remen references 310 Lee McGiffen 27-Nov-19 12:54
Re: Remen references 257 Mercurial 28-Nov-19 22:32
Re: Remen references 326 Jim Alison 01-Dec-19 06:15
Re: Squaring The Circle 320 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 00:47
Re: Squaring The Circle 267 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 02:32
Re: Squaring The Circle 258 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 05:20
Re: Squaring The Circle 336 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 06:26
Egyptian knowledge of √2 260 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:39
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 234 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 01:19
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 283 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 09:45
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 248 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 14:42
Re: Egyptian knowledge of √2 242 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 16:10
Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 263 geoffss 21-Nov-19 10:49
Re: Everything Mick wrote here - 86 pages 259 magisterchessmutt 21-Nov-19 11:54
Re: Squaring The Circle 221 molder 20-Dec-19 12:45
Re: Found it! 294 Mercurial 22-Nov-19 06:48
Re: Found it! 259 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 12:01
Re: Found it! 255 PB Bytes 22-Nov-19 15:24
Re: Found it! 293 magisterchessmutt 22-Nov-19 23:55
Re: Found it! 251 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 02:06
Re: Found it! 248 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 02:36
Re: Found it! 243 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Found it! 252 DUNE 23-Nov-19 18:42
Re: Found it! 235 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 19:37
Re: Found it! 253 DUNE 23-Nov-19 20:14
Re: Found it! 242 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:27
Re: Found it! 239 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:46
Re: Found it! 243 DUNE 23-Nov-19 21:37
Re: Found it! 245 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 21:55
Re: Found it! 246 DUNE 23-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Found it! 239 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 22:44
Re: Found it! 299 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 17:44
Re: Found it! 255 DUNE 24-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Found it! 259 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 18:34
Re: Found it! 246 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 20:59
Re: Found it! 243 magisterchessmutt 23-Nov-19 19:55
Totally debunked 249 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 05:23
NOT Totally debunked 240 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 05:41
eg: NOT Totally debunked 256 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 06:12
Khufu <> Khafre 279 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 00:28
Re: Khufu <> Khafre 242 Mercurial 24-Nov-19 19:12
Khufu <> Khafre - Update 205 Dr. Troglodyte 11-Jan-20 19:56
Re: Found it! 267 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:35
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 257 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:45
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 252 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:05
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 269 magisterchessmutt 20-Nov-19 00:27
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 253 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 15:34
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 253 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:49
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 256 DUNE 19-Nov-19 10:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 253 Jim Alison 19-Nov-19 14:22
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 244 DUNE 19-Nov-19 15:37
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 246 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 00:44
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 265 PB Bytes 19-Nov-19 16:43
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 251 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 01:07
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 279 PB Bytes 20-Nov-19 01:38
Re: DUNE!: Remen : Meridian 250 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 14:28
Where is this leading? 258 PB Bytes 21-Nov-19 17:19
Re: Where is this leading? 269 Lee McGiffen 22-Nov-19 06:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 268 PB Bytes 16-Nov-19 18:00
Re: Remen : Meridian 270 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:09
Excellent! 278 thinkitover 16-Nov-19 18:29
Re: Excellent! 315 Jim Alison 16-Nov-19 22:24
Re: Excellent! 298 Lee McGiffen 18-Nov-19 07:36
Re: Excellent! 294 Jim Alison 18-Nov-19 15:55
Re: Excellent! 273 magisterchessmutt 19-Nov-19 03:57
Re: Remen : Meridian 267 Spiros 20-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 262 Spiros 20-Nov-19 19:28
Re: Remen : Meridian 257 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 20:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 253 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:25
Re: Remen : Meridian 287 Spiros 20-Nov-19 22:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 268 Spiros 20-Nov-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 261 Jim Alison 20-Nov-19 23:40
The Earth number 330 hendrik dirker 21-Nov-19 05:48
Re: The Earth number 282 Jim Alison 21-Nov-19 13:15
Re: The Earth number 277 molder 22-Nov-19 19:30
Re: The Earth number 251 Jim Alison 23-Nov-19 01:44
Geometry as Metrology? 303 thinkitover 23-Nov-19 22:56
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 267 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 00:04
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 275 Jim Alison 24-Nov-19 01:16
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 302 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:36
Re: Geometry as Metrology? 306 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 01:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 410 magisterchessmutt 24-Nov-19 02:38
Re: Remen : Meridian 277 DavidK 11-Dec-19 23:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 261 DavidK 12-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Remen : Meridian 306 thinkitover 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 282 DavidK 12-Dec-19 21:27
Re: Remen : Meridian 235 Jiri Mruzek 13-Dec-19 00:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 221 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:51
Re: Remen : Meridian 235 Jim Alison 13-Dec-19 03:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 227 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 04:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 222 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 222 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:58
Re: Remen : Meridian 227 DavidK 13-Dec-19 09:15
Re: Remen : Meridian 227 magisterchessmutt 13-Dec-19 11:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 243 DavidK 13-Dec-19 11:07
Re: Earth circumference 302 drew 17-Dec-19 23:57
Re: Earth circumference 282 DavidK 18-Dec-19 11:29
Re: Earth circumference 252 drew 20-Dec-19 00:22
Re: Earth circumference 256 hendrik dirker 20-Dec-19 06:07
Re: Earth circumference 234 DavidK 20-Dec-19 13:27
Re: Earth circumference 222 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 12:48
Re: Earth circumference 236 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 20:48
Re: Earth circumference 236 hendrik dirker 21-Dec-19 11:44
Re: Earth circumference 217 drew 20-Dec-19 23:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 224 Jim Alison 20-Dec-19 19:26
Re: Remen : Meridian 220 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 01:54
Re: Remen : Meridian 229 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 04:30
Re: Remen : Meridian 225 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 07:43
Re: Remen : Meridian 222 DavidK 21-Dec-19 10:56
Re: Remen : Meridian 223 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 216 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 209 DavidK 21-Dec-19 16:08
Re: Remen : Meridian 238 DavidK 21-Dec-19 12:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 222 Jim Alison 21-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Remen : Meridian 217 molder 21-Dec-19 20:33
Re: Remen : Meridian 210 DavidK 21-Dec-19 23:49
Re: Remen : Meridian 212 Jim Alison 22-Dec-19 03:02
Re: Remen : Meridian 208 DavidK 22-Dec-19 10:30
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 219 molder 22-Dec-19 13:03
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 214 DavidK 22-Dec-19 15:01
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 219 magisterchessmutt 22-Dec-19 17:13
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 226 DavidK 22-Dec-19 17:32
Re: Roman measures Hang on let us get this right. 219 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 05:23
Stecchini's Metrics 219 thinkitover 21-Dec-19 16:01
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 221 magisterchessmutt 21-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Stecchini's Metrics 223 thinkitover 24-Dec-19 15:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 221 drew 23-Dec-19 00:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 215 Jim Alison 23-Dec-19 02:55
Re: Remen : Meridian 231 DavidK 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Remen : Meridian 234 Jim Alison 24-Dec-19 01:09
Re: Remen : Meridian 212 drew 27-Dec-19 23:06
Re: Remen : Meridian 230 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:59
Re: Remen : Meridian 229 drew 28-Dec-19 22:24
Re: Remen : Meridian 285 DavidK 29-Dec-19 00:50
Re: Remen : Meridian 189 Jim Alison 19-Apr-20 18:46
Re: Remen : Meridian 170 drew 22-Apr-20 23:44
Re: Remen : Meridian 181 magisterchessmutt 23-Apr-20 13:03
Re: Remen : Meridian 189 magisterchessmutt 24-Apr-20 08:14
Re: Remen : Meridian 216 Jim Alison 11-Jan-20 03:53
Re: Remen : Meridian 207 DavidK 11-Jan-20 13:54
The Egyptian Remen 14.58333r inches 345 DavidK 11-Jan-20 16:48
Re: Remen : Meridian 211 Jim Alison 22-Jan-20 00:10
Re: Remen : Meridian 201 Mercurial 22-Jan-20 20:59
say hello to rodz? 229 DavidK 11-Jan-20 18:01
Re: say hello to rodz? 211 thinkitover 12-Jan-20 06:03
Re: say hello to rodz? 217 DavidK 12-Jan-20 12:45
Re: say hello to rodz? 291 thinkitover 13-Jan-20 06:41
Re: Remen : Meridian 243 akitu 24-Apr-20 19:26


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