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Barbelo Wrote:
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> Read through that thread where I challenged Thanos
> 5150 as to the size of the forest which I
> calculated to be impossibly big.

My post to Audrey:

Quote

My understanding is that they did not have such a thing as a "league" but the translation was offered as a placeholder using the English word of what they thought was the nearest equivalent. (Added-the idea of it being less than a mile was my own math extrapolating from the cord which the source said the Babylonian equivalent of a "league" was 30 cord, but this could be wrong).

Quote

The word beru, translated by Heidel as double-hour and by Speiser as league is a very curious one. It seems to be formed from a subsidiary stem of the verb root beru, whose basic meaning is to starve or to be hungry. From this basic meaning the subsidiary stem in question developed its meaning to persevere, to hold out, in other words, to hold out against starvation. In actual usage, the meaning was extended and the word came to mean to endure without interruption, and to continue to last. The word was used specifically in astronomy to describe stars and plnets which continued to be visible and had not gone below the horizon. From this verb, a noun was constructed with the meaning duration, although it was generally in the form biritu. A related preposition meant between, since what was endured between constituted an interval.
This noun also had a highly specific astronomical usage, meaning the angle of elongation of a star or planet. That means the angular distance from the sun. (In the case of Mercury, this never exceeds 28 degrees, which is just under 1/3 of a right angle, and may possibly relate to the thirds which were discussed above in note 11.) The central celestial sky band of An had an angular width of between 30 and 34 degrees, since An was identified with the number 60, it would seem that the degrees of his sky band were double-degrees, to yield this number. Perhaps the idea of a double-hour is similarly a normal hour counted double. Heidel does not explain why he has chosen to translate beru as double-hour. I have retained this translation but warn that the word really means 'variable interval', when Gilgamesh's journey below the horizon is described, referring to the 12 unequal hours, two of which are the period of dawn.
F. Rochberg-Hlaton, in an article on stellar distances in Babylonian astronomy stressed that the beru was: 'a unit of measure having three possible dimensions: length, time, or the measurement of an arc. As a unit of length, beru is customarily translated as mile (it is actually something over 10km), and as a unit of time it is equal to 30 ush (ush being the fundamental Babylonian unit for the measurement of both time and of arcs, equivalent to four minutes), hence 120 minutes or a double- hour. In the measurement of an arc, the beru refers to the 12th part of a circle, against 30 ush or 30 degrees, and serves as an astronomical unit, but only in the late mathematical astronomy.' Beru occurs so frequently in the Epic of Gilgamesh that it has been necessary to give a fair amount of information about it. The cosmic journey throughout the Epic, and the number of berus traversed on each occasion, are of great significance for working out what is actually being described. I have opted largely to use the translation double-hour, and occasionally leagues. But precisely what is going on in all instances is by no means clear.

Given the word is "league" I think we can safely assume the actual measure given for the length of this forest was in beru.

Quote

According to Segre¹, “NINDA meant also a measure of time,” 1/60th of 1/360th of a Babylonian day, about 4 seconds. The beru, = 1800 nindānu, would be 2 Babylonian hours, or as a length the distance walked in 1/12 of a Babylonian day.

So if "league" is a beru then this is equivalent to the distance one could walk in 2hrs.

It would appear, regardless, that the translation of "10,000 leagues" in the version being quoted is an error in translation or a mythologized version. The Yale tablet, noted in Geography of Gilgamesh Travels PART 1: The Route to the Mountain of the Cedars p102, says:

"The forest extended 60 leagues in each direction."

Oops. Only 9,940 leagues less.

So, if a beru is equivalent to 2hrs of walking then it would take 5 days to traverse this forest in either direction and 10 days to get from one end to the other. A forest of truly mythical proportions.

> It being a figure of speech is a strong
> possibility. Or as Race said, the numbers are all
> messed up for several reasons.

Indeed.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Curious Pyramid Cartouche 1431 Thanos5150 20-Oct-19 16:27
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 258 Martin Stower 20-Oct-19 16:42
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 174 Thanos5150 20-Oct-19 18:16
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 152 Corpuscles 20-Oct-19 18:47
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 143 Warwick 20-Oct-19 18:49
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 150 Martin Stower 20-Oct-19 18:49
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 137 Warwick 20-Oct-19 18:52
Damaged | Defaced | Altered 155 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Oct-19 20:14
Re: Damaged | Defaced | Altered 135 Warwick 20-Oct-19 20:33
Damaged | Defaced | Altered | Deliberate 150 Dr. Troglodyte 20-Oct-19 23:34
Re: Damaged | Defaced | Altered | Deliberate 121 Sirfiroth 21-Oct-19 02:42
Re: Damaged | Defaced | Altered | Deliberate 116 Dr. Troglodyte 21-Oct-19 15:51
Re: Damaged | Defaced | Altered | Deliberate 111 Lee McGiffen 23-Oct-19 03:10
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 110 Trevorjjj 20-Oct-19 20:49
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 103 Spiros 20-Oct-19 21:12
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 134 Thanos5150 21-Oct-19 03:45
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 124 Trevorjjj 21-Oct-19 04:14
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 102 engbren 21-Oct-19 06:05
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 98 Trevorjjj 21-Oct-19 06:44
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 89 engbren 21-Oct-19 08:05
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 92 Trevorjjj 21-Oct-19 08:43
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 101 Thanos5150 21-Oct-19 22:55
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 92 Warwick 21-Oct-19 18:12
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 106 Trevorjjj 22-Oct-19 03:48
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 75 Warwick 24-Oct-19 18:04
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 67 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 18:17
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 75 Warwick 24-Oct-19 18:55
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche 69 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 19:50
Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 126 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Oct-19 23:35
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 89 Spiros 23-Oct-19 13:38
Nice work. n/t 92 Morten 23-Oct-19 16:36
Re: Nice work. n/t 94 Merrell 23-Oct-19 17:47
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 102 Thanos5150 23-Oct-19 22:32
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 100 Spiros 23-Oct-19 23:03
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 89 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 00:34
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 82 Spiros 24-Oct-19 16:26
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 75 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 16:53
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 78 Spiros 31-Oct-19 15:28
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 100 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Oct-19 00:00
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 108 Thanos5150 24-Oct-19 01:29
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 108 Lee McGiffen 24-Oct-19 02:09
The Djed Palm 108 Barbelo 24-Oct-19 07:05
Re: The Djed Palm 97 engbren 24-Oct-19 07:41
Re: The Djed Palm 96 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 07:46
Re: The Djed Palm 84 engbren 24-Oct-19 10:09
Re: The Djed Palm 98 Barbelo 24-Oct-19 11:03
Re: The Djed Palm 85 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 15:17
Re: The Djed Palm 90 Merrell 24-Oct-19 16:03
Re: The Djed Palm 79 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 16:08
Re: The Djed Palm 94 cladking 24-Oct-19 16:15
Re: The Djed Palm 104 Barbelo 24-Oct-19 19:07
Your question 92 Warwick 24-Oct-19 19:36
Re: Your question 100 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 20:07
Re: Your question 97 Warwick 25-Oct-19 18:02
Re: Your question 75 Trevorjjj 26-Oct-19 03:07
Re: Your question 85 Trevorjjj 26-Oct-19 18:59
Re: Your question 95 Barbelo 25-Oct-19 02:34
Re: Your question 74 Warwick 25-Oct-19 17:58
Re: Your question 69 Trevorjjj 26-Oct-19 03:27
Re: Your question 79 Trevorjjj 26-Oct-19 05:10
Re: Your question 99 Warwick 27-Oct-19 19:47
Re: The Djed Palm 77 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 20:01
Re: The Djed Palm 114 Thanos5150 24-Oct-19 17:24
Re: The Djed Palm 87 Trevorjjj 24-Oct-19 18:28
Re: The Djed Palm 77 thinkitover 01-Nov-19 01:13
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 106 molder 25-Oct-19 03:18
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 81 engbren 26-Oct-19 11:23
Re: Curious Pyramid Cartouche | Solved 98 Warwick 24-Oct-19 19:06
The Serpent and the Mound 92 MDaines 03-Nov-19 10:56
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 90 Barbelo 03-Nov-19 11:33
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 94 MDaines 03-Nov-19 13:44
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 72 seasmith 04-Nov-19 21:03
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 81 Barbelo 05-Nov-19 01:16
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 70 seasmith 05-Nov-19 02:48
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 81 Barbelo 05-Nov-19 05:15
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 99 Thanos5150 05-Nov-19 07:26
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 72 Barbelo 05-Nov-19 21:57
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 85 Thanos5150 06-Nov-19 16:01
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 77 Barbelo 06-Nov-19 21:17
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 97 Thanos5150 07-Nov-19 03:00
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 71 Corpuscles 07-Nov-19 18:55
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 72 Barbelo 07-Nov-19 21:52
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 67 Warwick 08-Nov-19 18:09
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 80 Thanos5150 09-Nov-19 15:20
Um, yeah....And I'm the dick. 123 Barbelo 09-Nov-19 22:01
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 59 Barbelo 07-Nov-19 20:54
Hang on 75 Warwick 07-Nov-19 20:28
Re: Hang on 74 Barbelo 07-Nov-19 20:59
Re: Hang on 89 Thanos5150 07-Nov-19 22:15
Re: Hang on to What? 102 Barbelo 08-Nov-19 04:56
Re: Hang on to What? 84 Thanos5150 08-Nov-19 16:36
Re: Hang on 56 Warwick 08-Nov-19 17:56
Re: Hang on 73 Thanos5150 08-Nov-19 01:35
Re: Hang on 59 Warwick 08-Nov-19 18:04
Re: Hang on 73 Thanos5150 09-Nov-19 01:19
Re: Hang on 75 seasmith 09-Nov-19 03:20
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 147 MDaines 05-Nov-19 08:54
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 100 Barbelo 05-Nov-19 22:00
Re: The Serpent and the Mound 103 seasmith 06-Nov-19 01:43


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