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drrayeye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> My version:
>
> Infants do communicate, but not through
> intelligible language. Most of the communication
> is through affect-as parents know too well. Their
> early babbling is not in imitation of their speech
> community, but exhibit universal distinctive
> features.
>
> What they understand, and how much they understand
> is largely unknown, but we do know through the
> studies of Piaget and more careful recent studies
> that cognitive understanding goes through an
> elaborate develpmental process.
>
> I have no special insight to pre alphabet
> societies, except to suppose that visual abilities
> and aural abilities developed more separately than
> later alphabet societies.
>
> The development of language in apes and chimps is
> much different from humans--and, though they have
> been taught to recognize printed words, they do
> not have the articulatory capability to speak.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything here. But you seem to believe that development in babies and their growth is mirrored in the nature of the human species to grow and develop language and I believe NOTHING could be further from the truth.

I believe humans were born fully grown when we acquired the ability to invent and understand complex language. I believe this language developed gradually because the first individuals had no shoulders of giants upon which to stand. But they did have a fully developed language that was suitable for their forebearers who had no ability to use, understand, or invent complex language. Even proto-humans had all the words to express feelings and emotions.

Late humans (great pyramid builders) simply had a far more complex knowledge base and far more complex language than their earlier counterparts. But all humans are just alike and this applies to early humans, late humans and today's humans who are for all practical purposes a different species than the great pyramid builders because our brains are programmed by an analog language rather than our world a reflection of our own digital language.

All of our babies would be identical at birth. The big difference would be that the parents used to be able to communicate with the babies from birth and reinforce their natural language skills. By two years of age the babys' brains begin exploding in new connections and these connections very much reflect, drive, and foster their ability to use language. Today babies still try to establish communication through various techniques (like babbling) but in order to communicate they must first unlearn their natural language (what little they have) and begin learning the rules for modern language. This learning is centered in the new speech center that ancient people lacked and we call the "broccas area". It acts as a translator from the wernickes area to higher brain functions. As children develop there are numerous changes in the brain and their understanding. We all go through this in very similar ways because it's only natural that learning occurs from the simpler to the more complex. But this has nothing to do with adults, civilizations, or societies. By whatever means we have learned to talk and think we are each "fully evolved" and this applies to every adult and civilization for the last 40,000 years when the ability to use complex language arose through mutation. Humans have always worked in tandem because it's genetic. People working in tandem could have invented writing any time they chose so that it didn't arise until 4,000 years ago is not indicative of people being "less developed" but that people earlier had no need of writing. The need arose only when pidgin language came into being. Each individual who spoke a pidgin language could no longer understand human knowledge or be certain what the ones he was "communicating" with were thinking. He could no longer be certain what his listeners believed he was saying because modern languages (pidgin) must be parsed to have meaning. Each word must be defined and he had no idea what the definition of his words were to others. As ideas were relayed their meaning changed so writing was invented to prevent this drift.

Ancient Language had no need for writing. They never invented writing not because they were superstitious and undeveloped but because they had no need.

From our modern perspective your words about how babies learn to communicate and grow are accurate enough but I believe they are highly misleading simply because modern perspective is so highly limited and these limitations are imposed by numerous false premises. We see our beliefs/ premises/ knowledge/ models preferentially to reality itself. Babies do not. They know almost nothing from our perspective but they see reality directly just like animals. Their understanding of the world is a reflection of the wiring of their brains.

Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 1746 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 07:56
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 223 Spiros 03-Sep-19 10:50
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 208 MDaines 03-Sep-19 12:59
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 200 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 13:22
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 256 MDaines 03-Sep-19 13:51
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 125 cladking 13-Oct-19 16:08
For those who believe Moses wrote in "pre Hebrew" 156 drrayeye 07-Sep-19 06:52
Re: For those who believe Moses wrote in "pre Hebrew" 161 Spiros 07-Sep-19 07:18
Re: For those who believe Moses wrote in "pre Hebrew" 128 drrayeye 07-Sep-19 17:16
Re: For those who believe Moses wrote in "pre Hebrew" 142 Spiros 07-Sep-19 17:26
Re: For those who believe Moses wrote in "pre Hebrew" 132 drrayeye 09-Sep-19 16:17
Re: For those who believe Moses wrote in "pre Hebrew" 139 Eddie Larry 07-Sep-19 18:13
Re: For those who believe Moses wrote in "pre Hebrew" 142 drrayeye 08-Sep-19 01:44
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 162 Thanos5150 09-Sep-19 17:15
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 148 drrayeye 10-Sep-19 16:34
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 140 Thanos5150 11-Sep-19 15:55
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 144 drrayeye 11-Sep-19 18:06
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 131 Thanos5150 11-Sep-19 23:21
different Patterns of influence 130 drrayeye 12-Sep-19 03:02
Re: different Patterns of influence 133 Thanos5150 12-Sep-19 03:14
Re: different Patterns of influence 156 drrayeye 12-Sep-19 03:42
Seriously? 177 Barbelo 09-Sep-19 22:34
modern psycholinguistic considerations 120 drrayeye 17-Sep-19 20:43
Re: modern psycholinguistic considerations 122 Eddie Larry 17-Sep-19 22:06
further cognitive limits on alphabet construction 121 drrayeye 21-Sep-19 20:07
HW CM Y CN RD THS? 124 drrayeye 24-Sep-19 20:32
Re: HW CM Y CN RD THS? 108 Eddie Larry 24-Sep-19 20:49
Some of the answers 137 drrayeye 25-Sep-19 01:58
Re: Some of the answers 116 Eddie Larry 04-Oct-19 15:01
Re: Some of the answers 105 drrayeye 05-Oct-19 06:01
Hypothesis 108 drrayeye 04-Oct-19 04:26
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 112 seasmith 07-Oct-19 03:37
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 126 seasmith 07-Oct-19 03:44
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 105 drrayeye 08-Oct-19 06:55
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 95 seasmith 10-Oct-19 00:27
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 98 drrayeye 11-Oct-19 03:22
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 96 seasmith 12-Oct-19 01:39
Could you add 92 drrayeye 12-Oct-19 02:14
History of the alphabet 88 Sirfiroth 12-Oct-19 02:59
Re: History of the alphabet 84 drrayeye 12-Oct-19 04:00
Re: History of the alphabet 82 Eddie Larry 12-Oct-19 04:05
Re: History of the alphabet 90 drrayeye 12-Oct-19 06:32
Re: History of the alphabet 92 Eddie Larry 12-Oct-19 14:52
Re: History of the alphabet 87 drrayeye 13-Oct-19 05:06
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 111 cladking 13-Oct-19 02:44
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 116 cladking 13-Oct-19 13:24
Psycholinguistics 82 drrayeye 15-Oct-19 19:36
Re: Psycholinguistics 89 cladking 15-Oct-19 20:17
Re: Psycholinguistics 210 drrayeye 16-Oct-19 01:15
Re: Psycholinguistics 84 cladking 27-Oct-19 14:51
Re: Psycholinguistics 79 drrayeye 03-Nov-19 02:04
Re: Psycholinguistics 65 cladking 03-Nov-19 14:36
Infants, Babies, and young children 67 drrayeye 03-Nov-19 23:02
Re: Infants, Babies, and young children 74 cladking 04-Nov-19 15:10
Re: Infants, Babies, and young children 75 drrayeye 04-Nov-19 17:21
Re: Infants, Babies, and young children 90 cladking 05-Nov-19 01:57
Re: Infants, Babies, and young children 118 drrayeye 05-Nov-19 18:40
Speechery & Glyphery 80 seasmith 03-Nov-19 04:02
Re: Speechery & Glyphery 71 cladking 03-Nov-19 15:02
Sign, symbol, and meaning: linguistic relativity 69 drrayeye 03-Nov-19 23:25
Re: Who invented the first syllabic alphabet? 94 seasmith 13-Oct-19 17:20
Do you have an example of an alphabet that is Not syllabic ? 90 drrayeye 13-Oct-19 22:46
I'm familiar with Rohl 86 drrayeye 13-Oct-19 23:12
Re: I'm familiar with Rohl 92 seasmith 13-Oct-19 23:53
Re: I'm familiar with Rohl 93 drrayeye 14-Oct-19 02:15
Re: I'm familiar with Rohl 96 seasmith 14-Oct-19 18:29
Re: I'm familiar with Rohl 87 drrayeye 14-Oct-19 19:21
Ancient written symbols 94 drrayeye 17-Oct-19 01:01
Summary: part one 91 drrayeye 20-Oct-19 07:12
Re: Summary: part two 86 drrayeye 27-Oct-19 06:36
Re: Summary: part one 84 cladking 27-Oct-19 14:30


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