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MDaines Wrote:
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> It was your statement about Harran being founded
> in the late 3rd millennium that needed
> substantiating – which I notice you have now
> backpedalled on.

Revising my earlier comment by a few centuries in light of more accurate information is hardly the stuff of "backpeddling", and regardless has no bearing on the point being made. Information I found of my own volition and offered voluntarily mind you. References that apparently do not rely on the Ebla tablets place the foundation of Harran at the end of the 3rd millennium and curiously newer sources still, like Graham, for some reason, ignore the Ebla tablets and cite the first mention of Harran in ancient texts being c. 2000BC as well. My interest is low regardless and no matter as the period offered by the archaeology for the founding of Harran at 2600-2400BC is just as well and accommodates the Ebla tablets.

> Perhaps because people travelled and traded, and
> Harran was a crossroads, a well-known trade
> route…. oh, I already said that, didn’t I?

But to the Egyptians...? Why and if so surely there must be some contemporary evidence to support this being true? Yes, it was a "crossroads", but at this time in particular for the Mediterranean and the Levant to Mesopotamia and Anatolia. Whatever connection between Egypt and the Harran area during the pyramid age (or earlier) would more than likely be indirect through Byblos by sea and southern Palestine by land- both proxies for a further connection with Northern Syria, which would include Ebla mind you.

In the 1st Dynasty in particular, for example, trade relations with Syria-Palestine are abundant. A relationship that abruptly ended at the end of the 1st Dynasty, but was apparently reestablished at the end of the 2nd Dynasty under Khasekhemwy. Before this even, pottery from northern Syria is found at Buto dating to the predynastic period. Of a more relevant note here is that artifacts with the catouches of Khafre and Pepi I were found at Ebla and Ebla is well attested in later times in Egypt.

Regardless, the Ubaid had a significant presence in Syria since nearly 6,000BC. Both waves of Uruk expansion in the 4th millennium pressed into Syria as well establishing and rejuvenating (preexisting Ubaid sites) several outposts there.


There is no evidence the AE came this far north and the connections between the two were by way of intermediary sites as I said throughout the greater Levant or as I (and others) have argued by way of Mesopotamians coming to Egypt from these outposts and perhaps around the Arabian Peninsula. As I have noted before, there is evidence of early Dynastic and Old Kingdom trade between Egypt and Anatolia though, again, it stands to reason this was indirect by way of the Levant.

> It seems to me that your desire for an
> impenetrable border between the two regions from
> 3000 BC until 700 BC is by far the greatest
> stretch - to what end?

This is nonsense. Even a cursory familiarity with my work says the exact opposite which I am focused on nothing greater than establishing these very connections. What I will not do, however, is make unwarranted leaps of faith to make connections that are not actually there to satisfy some "novel" idea I think I may have. If you want to make some connection between Egypt and Harran in the pyramid age, best of luck to you but for now the trail ends in the greater Levant.

> I don't know. As for the
> Sabians, once again and as you must have read, it
> was the result of my own translating that leads me
> to believe they were indeed around as early as
> 2600 BC.

Unless I missed something, what you said is that you believe you have found evidence of Harran, not the "Sabians", dating to this time:

Quote

The Sumerian name in full comprising three symbols, HAR-RA-AN, is attested from around 2500 BC and given as ‘route, passage, path’, a description that corresponds well. I have found meanings pertaining to commerce and financial operations connected to the name at around 3000 BC.

This is the stretch-equating the Sabians and Harran of the 3rd millennium as being one and the same. You seemed to agree with the wisdom of this so I am not sure what set you off.

> Never mind.

As you wish.

The connection between Harran and Ebla in the 3rd millennium is established by the Ebla texts. Ebla, and Syria at large, whether direct and/or indirect, had a significant known connection with both Egypt and Mesopotamia going back to and through the relevant periods of time, namely the 4th and 3rd millenniums. I would suggest what you are looking for is not a direct Egypt to Harran connection, but rather and indirect one with Ebla (Syria) as the intermediary between the two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06-Mar-19 01:52 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 3459 MDaines 22-Feb-19 09:52
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 475 Thanos5150 22-Feb-19 16:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 344 MDaines 23-Feb-19 18:01
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 307 Thanos5150 24-Feb-19 03:06
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 331 Eddie Larry 22-Feb-19 18:39
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 317 cladking 22-Feb-19 20:12
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 301 MDaines 23-Feb-19 07:40
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 267 cladking 23-Feb-19 14:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 280 MDaines 23-Feb-19 15:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 222 cladking 02-Mar-19 16:31
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 258 Eddie Larry 23-Feb-19 16:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 266 Spiros 25-Feb-19 00:41
On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 302 MDaines 25-Feb-19 14:49
Re: On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 237 Spiros 04-Mar-19 01:11
The Exalted Sumero-Greek EN 235 MDaines 04-Mar-19 18:24
A Big Ask 299 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 01:27
Re: A Big Ask 243 MDaines 26-Feb-19 14:25
Re: A Big Ask 310 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 17:14
Re: A Big Ask 211 MDaines 26-Feb-19 19:30
Re: A Big Ask 233 Barbelo 26-Feb-19 20:23
Re: A Big Ask 243 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:13
Re: A Big Ask 195 Barbelo 27-Feb-19 20:28
Re: A Big Ask 195 MDaines 28-Feb-19 14:05
Re: A Big Ask 225 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 19:59
Re: A Big Ask 239 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 00:46
Re: A Big Ask 239 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 01:19
Re: A Big Ask 248 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 05:20
Re: A Weird Ask 216 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 11:13
Re: A Weird Ask 221 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 05:12
Re: A Weird Ask 227 Barbelo 02-Mar-19 07:06
Re: A Big Ask 215 MDaines 01-Mar-19 18:35
Re: A Big Ask 213 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 21:42
Re: A Big Ask 224 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 03:33
Re: A Big Ask 208 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 17:11
Re: A Big Ask 213 MDaines 28-Feb-19 18:08
Heliopolis 230 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 20:18
Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 265 Dr. Troglodyte 04-Mar-19 23:56
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 230 MDaines 10-Mar-19 14:41
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 228 Dr. Troglodyte 12-Mar-19 00:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 205 MDaines 15-Mar-19 07:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 239 Dr. Troglodyte 15-Mar-19 16:41
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 267 molder 26-Feb-19 21:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 244 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:06
Three Wise Men 216 MDaines 02-Mar-19 15:31
Re: Three Wise Men 218 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 17:05
Harran and the Sabians 230 MDaines 03-Mar-19 08:33
Re: Harran and the Sabians 228 Thanos5150 03-Mar-19 16:40
Re: Harran and the Sabians 234 MDaines 03-Mar-19 19:24
Re: Harran and the Sabians 188 Thanos5150 06-Mar-19 01:50
Re: Harran and the Sabians 206 MDaines 06-Mar-19 08:22
Re: Harran and the Sabians 192 Thanos5150 07-Mar-19 02:09
Re: Harran and the Sabians 207 MDaines 07-Mar-19 08:20
On the subject of Ebla and the Feather of Truth 209 MDaines 08-Mar-19 08:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 230 Broker 14-Mar-19 03:25
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 202 MDaines 17-Mar-19 09:11
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 201 SandyJesse 18-Apr-19 04:33
Celestial navigation and the ship 185 MDaines 23-Apr-19 07:21
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 169 SandyJesse 25-Apr-19 01:50
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 169 SandyJesse 30-Apr-19 05:16
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 169 seasmith 03-May-19 22:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 163 MDaines 04-May-19 08:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 155 seasmith 05-May-19 01:39
BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 162 MDaines 09-May-19 09:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 153 SandyJesse 12-May-19 09:58
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 152 MDaines 12-May-19 10:22
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 132 SandyJesse 14-May-19 05:21
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 138 MDaines 14-May-19 07:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 136 SandyJesse 16-May-19 03:19
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 136 drew 15-May-19 01:21
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 127 Barbelo 15-May-19 10:48
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 145 drew 15-May-19 23:59
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 137 Barbelo 16-May-19 01:45
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 99 drew 18-Jun-19 02:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 104 Barbelo 18-Jun-19 02:43
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 139 hendrik dirker 18-Jun-19 06:59
movement of Sun along horizon 109 hendrik dirker 19-Jun-19 16:23
Solstice & the epoch1250 BC 196 hendrik dirker 20-Jun-19 07:02
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 135 MDaines 15-May-19 11:00
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 152 Horatech 15-May-19 12:10
To Easter Island? 146 MDaines 15-May-19 18:10
Re: To Easter Island? 134 Horatech 16-May-19 06:56
Re: To Easter Island? 134 Horatech 16-May-19 23:48
Re: To Easter Island? 141 Horatech 17-May-19 06:25
Re: To Easter Island? 118 Barbelo 17-May-19 10:53
Re: To Easter Island? 152 MDaines 17-May-19 11:41
What A Shame 130 Barbelo 17-May-19 21:14
Re: What A Shame 147 MDaines 18-May-19 07:57
Great Circles and Small Circles 136 Dr. Troglodyte 18-May-19 17:34
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 162 MDaines 18-May-19 19:09
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 139 Dr. Troglodyte 19-May-19 17:07
Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 156 MDaines 19-May-19 18:10
Re: Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 151 Horatech 25-May-19 10:53
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 156 Horatech 20-May-19 07:33
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 136 Horatech 21-May-19 09:52
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 151 Dr. Troglodyte 21-May-19 18:30
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 170 MDaines 23-May-19 07:51
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 157 Horatech 23-May-19 10:48
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 138 MDaines 23-May-19 17:07
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 154 Horatech 24-May-19 08:12
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 182 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 16:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 152 MDaines 23-May-19 17:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 155 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 17:31
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 164 Horatech 27-May-19 10:30
Re: What A Shame 135 Barbelo 19-May-19 20:48
Re: To Easter Island? 131 Horatech 18-May-19 09:28
Re: To Easter Island? 120 Eddie Larry 17-May-19 15:11
Re: To Easter Island? 125 Horatech 18-May-19 14:58
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 145 drew 15-May-19 23:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 134 MDaines 16-May-19 06:14
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 131 drew 16-May-19 06:42
ps 124 drew 16-May-19 07:22
Re: ps 121 Barbelo 16-May-19 11:11
Re: ps 138 MDaines 16-May-19 12:10
Re: ps 156 Thanos5150 16-May-19 16:06
Re: ps 156 Barbelo 16-May-19 21:00
Sometimes I go the long way round… 170 drew 17-May-19 00:59


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