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MDaines Wrote:
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> It was your statement about Harran being founded
> in the late 3rd millennium that needed
> substantiating – which I notice you have now
> backpedalled on.

Revising my earlier comment by a few centuries in light of more accurate information is hardly the stuff of "backpeddling", and regardless has no bearing on the point being made. Information I found of my own volition and offered voluntarily mind you. References that apparently do not rely on the Ebla tablets place the foundation of Harran at the end of the 3rd millennium and curiously newer sources still, like Graham, for some reason, ignore the Ebla tablets and cite the first mention of Harran in ancient texts being c. 2000BC as well. My interest is low regardless and no matter as the period offered by the archaeology for the founding of Harran at 2600-2400BC is just as well and accommodates the Ebla tablets.

> Perhaps because people travelled and traded, and
> Harran was a crossroads, a well-known trade
> route…. oh, I already said that, didn’t I?

But to the Egyptians...? Why and if so surely there must be some contemporary evidence to support this being true? Yes, it was a "crossroads", but at this time in particular for the Mediterranean and the Levant to Mesopotamia and Anatolia. Whatever connection between Egypt and the Harran area during the pyramid age (or earlier) would more than likely be indirect through Byblos by sea and southern Palestine by land- both proxies for a further connection with Northern Syria, which would include Ebla mind you.

In the 1st Dynasty in particular, for example, trade relations with Syria-Palestine are abundant. A relationship that abruptly ended at the end of the 1st Dynasty, but was apparently reestablished at the end of the 2nd Dynasty under Khasekhemwy. Before this even, pottery from northern Syria is found at Buto dating to the predynastic period. Of a more relevant note here is that artifacts with the catouches of Khafre and Pepi I were found at Ebla and Ebla is well attested in later times in Egypt.

Regardless, the Ubaid had a significant presence in Syria since nearly 6,000BC. Both waves of Uruk expansion in the 4th millennium pressed into Syria as well establishing and rejuvenating (preexisting Ubaid sites) several outposts there.


There is no evidence the AE came this far north and the connections between the two were by way of intermediary sites as I said throughout the greater Levant or as I (and others) have argued by way of Mesopotamians coming to Egypt from these outposts and perhaps around the Arabian Peninsula. As I have noted before, there is evidence of early Dynastic and Old Kingdom trade between Egypt and Anatolia though, again, it stands to reason this was indirect by way of the Levant.

> It seems to me that your desire for an
> impenetrable border between the two regions from
> 3000 BC until 700 BC is by far the greatest
> stretch - to what end?

This is nonsense. Even a cursory familiarity with my work says the exact opposite which I am focused on nothing greater than establishing these very connections. What I will not do, however, is make unwarranted leaps of faith to make connections that are not actually there to satisfy some "novel" idea I think I may have. If you want to make some connection between Egypt and Harran in the pyramid age, best of luck to you but for now the trail ends in the greater Levant.

> I don't know. As for the
> Sabians, once again and as you must have read, it
> was the result of my own translating that leads me
> to believe they were indeed around as early as
> 2600 BC.

Unless I missed something, what you said is that you believe you have found evidence of Harran, not the "Sabians", dating to this time:

Quote

The Sumerian name in full comprising three symbols, HAR-RA-AN, is attested from around 2500 BC and given as ‘route, passage, path’, a description that corresponds well. I have found meanings pertaining to commerce and financial operations connected to the name at around 3000 BC.

This is the stretch-equating the Sabians and Harran of the 3rd millennium as being one and the same. You seemed to agree with the wisdom of this so I am not sure what set you off.

> Never mind.

As you wish.

The connection between Harran and Ebla in the 3rd millennium is established by the Ebla texts. Ebla, and Syria at large, whether direct and/or indirect, had a significant known connection with both Egypt and Mesopotamia going back to and through the relevant periods of time, namely the 4th and 3rd millenniums. I would suggest what you are looking for is not a direct Egypt to Harran connection, but rather and indirect one with Ebla (Syria) as the intermediary between the two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06-Mar-19 01:52 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 3639 MDaines 22-Feb-19 09:52
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 560 Thanos5150 22-Feb-19 16:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 425 MDaines 23-Feb-19 18:01
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 420 Thanos5150 24-Feb-19 03:06
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 391 Eddie Larry 22-Feb-19 18:39
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 391 cladking 22-Feb-19 20:12
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 399 MDaines 23-Feb-19 07:40
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 346 cladking 23-Feb-19 14:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 356 MDaines 23-Feb-19 15:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 294 cladking 02-Mar-19 16:31
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 338 Eddie Larry 23-Feb-19 16:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 340 Spiros 25-Feb-19 00:41
On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 396 MDaines 25-Feb-19 14:49
Re: On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 310 Spiros 04-Mar-19 01:11
The Exalted Sumero-Greek EN 319 MDaines 04-Mar-19 18:24
A Big Ask 383 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 01:27
Re: A Big Ask 308 MDaines 26-Feb-19 14:25
Re: A Big Ask 375 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 17:14
Re: A Big Ask 281 MDaines 26-Feb-19 19:30
Re: A Big Ask 301 Barbelo 26-Feb-19 20:23
Re: A Big Ask 307 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:13
Re: A Big Ask 255 Barbelo 27-Feb-19 20:28
Re: A Big Ask 260 MDaines 28-Feb-19 14:05
Re: A Big Ask 284 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 19:59
Re: A Big Ask 318 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 00:46
Re: A Big Ask 304 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 01:19
Re: A Big Ask 336 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 05:20
Re: A Weird Ask 323 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 11:13
Re: A Weird Ask 320 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 05:12
Re: A Weird Ask 321 Barbelo 02-Mar-19 07:06
Re: A Big Ask 278 MDaines 01-Mar-19 18:35
Re: A Big Ask 278 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 21:42
Re: A Big Ask 302 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 03:33
Re: A Big Ask 297 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 17:11
Re: A Big Ask 279 MDaines 28-Feb-19 18:08
Heliopolis 295 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 20:18
Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 368 Dr. Troglodyte 04-Mar-19 23:56
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 317 MDaines 10-Mar-19 14:41
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 308 Dr. Troglodyte 12-Mar-19 00:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 271 MDaines 15-Mar-19 07:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 354 Dr. Troglodyte 15-Mar-19 16:41
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 331 molder 26-Feb-19 21:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 318 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:06
Three Wise Men 273 MDaines 02-Mar-19 15:31
Re: Three Wise Men 271 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 17:05
Harran and the Sabians 331 MDaines 03-Mar-19 08:33
Re: Harran and the Sabians 345 Thanos5150 03-Mar-19 16:40
Re: Harran and the Sabians 308 MDaines 03-Mar-19 19:24
Re: Harran and the Sabians 260 Thanos5150 06-Mar-19 01:50
Re: Harran and the Sabians 266 MDaines 06-Mar-19 08:22
Re: Harran and the Sabians 249 Thanos5150 07-Mar-19 02:09
Re: Harran and the Sabians 281 MDaines 07-Mar-19 08:20
On the subject of Ebla and the Feather of Truth 275 MDaines 08-Mar-19 08:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 328 Broker 14-Mar-19 03:25
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 267 MDaines 17-Mar-19 09:11
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 281 SandyJesse 18-Apr-19 04:33
Celestial navigation and the ship 255 MDaines 23-Apr-19 07:21
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 255 SandyJesse 25-Apr-19 01:50
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 257 SandyJesse 30-Apr-19 05:16
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 227 seasmith 03-May-19 22:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 222 MDaines 04-May-19 08:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 216 seasmith 05-May-19 01:39
BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 253 MDaines 09-May-19 09:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 250 SandyJesse 12-May-19 09:58
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 214 MDaines 12-May-19 10:22
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 215 SandyJesse 14-May-19 05:21
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 197 MDaines 14-May-19 07:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 224 SandyJesse 16-May-19 03:19
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 190 drew 15-May-19 01:21
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 178 Barbelo 15-May-19 10:48
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 222 drew 15-May-19 23:59
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 192 Barbelo 16-May-19 01:45
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 160 drew 18-Jun-19 02:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 159 Barbelo 18-Jun-19 02:43
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 204 hendrik dirker 18-Jun-19 06:59
movement of Sun along horizon 168 hendrik dirker 19-Jun-19 16:23
Solstice & the epoch1250 BC 328 hendrik dirker 20-Jun-19 07:02
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 192 MDaines 15-May-19 11:00
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 207 Horatech 15-May-19 12:10
To Easter Island? 204 MDaines 15-May-19 18:10
Re: To Easter Island? 199 Horatech 16-May-19 06:56
Re: To Easter Island? 189 Horatech 16-May-19 23:48
Re: To Easter Island? 226 Horatech 17-May-19 06:25
Re: To Easter Island? 175 Barbelo 17-May-19 10:53
Re: To Easter Island? 212 MDaines 17-May-19 11:41
What A Shame 193 Barbelo 17-May-19 21:14
Re: What A Shame 210 MDaines 18-May-19 07:57
Great Circles and Small Circles 210 Dr. Troglodyte 18-May-19 17:34
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 222 MDaines 18-May-19 19:09
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 194 Dr. Troglodyte 19-May-19 17:07
Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 238 MDaines 19-May-19 18:10
Re: Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 217 Horatech 25-May-19 10:53
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 210 Horatech 20-May-19 07:33
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 192 Horatech 21-May-19 09:52
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 240 Dr. Troglodyte 21-May-19 18:30
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 250 MDaines 23-May-19 07:51
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 217 Horatech 23-May-19 10:48
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 208 MDaines 23-May-19 17:07
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 220 Horatech 24-May-19 08:12
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 240 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 16:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 221 MDaines 23-May-19 17:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 245 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 17:31
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 260 Horatech 27-May-19 10:30
Re: What A Shame 196 Barbelo 19-May-19 20:48
Re: To Easter Island? 187 Horatech 18-May-19 09:28
Re: To Easter Island? 174 Eddie Larry 17-May-19 15:11
Re: To Easter Island? 180 Horatech 18-May-19 14:58
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 206 drew 15-May-19 23:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 205 MDaines 16-May-19 06:14
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 191 drew 16-May-19 06:42
ps 178 drew 16-May-19 07:22
Re: ps 177 Barbelo 16-May-19 11:11
Re: ps 198 MDaines 16-May-19 12:10
Re: ps 221 Thanos5150 16-May-19 16:06
Re: ps 216 Barbelo 16-May-19 21:00
Sometimes I go the long way round… 236 drew 17-May-19 00:59


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