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MDaines Wrote:
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> It was your statement about Harran being founded
> in the late 3rd millennium that needed
> substantiating – which I notice you have now
> backpedalled on.

Revising my earlier comment by a few centuries in light of more accurate information is hardly the stuff of "backpeddling", and regardless has no bearing on the point being made. Information I found of my own volition and offered voluntarily mind you. References that apparently do not rely on the Ebla tablets place the foundation of Harran at the end of the 3rd millennium and curiously newer sources still, like Graham, for some reason, ignore the Ebla tablets and cite the first mention of Harran in ancient texts being c. 2000BC as well. My interest is low regardless and no matter as the period offered by the archaeology for the founding of Harran at 2600-2400BC is just as well and accommodates the Ebla tablets.

> Perhaps because people travelled and traded, and
> Harran was a crossroads, a well-known trade
> route…. oh, I already said that, didn’t I?

But to the Egyptians...? Why and if so surely there must be some contemporary evidence to support this being true? Yes, it was a "crossroads", but at this time in particular for the Mediterranean and the Levant to Mesopotamia and Anatolia. Whatever connection between Egypt and the Harran area during the pyramid age (or earlier) would more than likely be indirect through Byblos by sea and southern Palestine by land- both proxies for a further connection with Northern Syria, which would include Ebla mind you.

In the 1st Dynasty in particular, for example, trade relations with Syria-Palestine are abundant. A relationship that abruptly ended at the end of the 1st Dynasty, but was apparently reestablished at the end of the 2nd Dynasty under Khasekhemwy. Before this even, pottery from northern Syria is found at Buto dating to the predynastic period. Of a more relevant note here is that artifacts with the catouches of Khafre and Pepi I were found at Ebla and Ebla is well attested in later times in Egypt.

Regardless, the Ubaid had a significant presence in Syria since nearly 6,000BC. Both waves of Uruk expansion in the 4th millennium pressed into Syria as well establishing and rejuvenating (preexisting Ubaid sites) several outposts there.


There is no evidence the AE came this far north and the connections between the two were by way of intermediary sites as I said throughout the greater Levant or as I (and others) have argued by way of Mesopotamians coming to Egypt from these outposts and perhaps around the Arabian Peninsula. As I have noted before, there is evidence of early Dynastic and Old Kingdom trade between Egypt and Anatolia though, again, it stands to reason this was indirect by way of the Levant.

> It seems to me that your desire for an
> impenetrable border between the two regions from
> 3000 BC until 700 BC is by far the greatest
> stretch - to what end?

This is nonsense. Even a cursory familiarity with my work says the exact opposite which I am focused on nothing greater than establishing these very connections. What I will not do, however, is make unwarranted leaps of faith to make connections that are not actually there to satisfy some "novel" idea I think I may have. If you want to make some connection between Egypt and Harran in the pyramid age, best of luck to you but for now the trail ends in the greater Levant.

> I don't know. As for the
> Sabians, once again and as you must have read, it
> was the result of my own translating that leads me
> to believe they were indeed around as early as
> 2600 BC.

Unless I missed something, what you said is that you believe you have found evidence of Harran, not the "Sabians", dating to this time:

Quote

The Sumerian name in full comprising three symbols, HAR-RA-AN, is attested from around 2500 BC and given as ‘route, passage, path’, a description that corresponds well. I have found meanings pertaining to commerce and financial operations connected to the name at around 3000 BC.

This is the stretch-equating the Sabians and Harran of the 3rd millennium as being one and the same. You seemed to agree with the wisdom of this so I am not sure what set you off.

> Never mind.

As you wish.

The connection between Harran and Ebla in the 3rd millennium is established by the Ebla texts. Ebla, and Syria at large, whether direct and/or indirect, had a significant known connection with both Egypt and Mesopotamia going back to and through the relevant periods of time, namely the 4th and 3rd millenniums. I would suggest what you are looking for is not a direct Egypt to Harran connection, but rather and indirect one with Ebla (Syria) as the intermediary between the two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06-Mar-19 01:52 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 3505 MDaines 22-Feb-19 09:52
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 497 Thanos5150 22-Feb-19 16:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 370 MDaines 23-Feb-19 18:01
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 337 Thanos5150 24-Feb-19 03:06
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 345 Eddie Larry 22-Feb-19 18:39
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 334 cladking 22-Feb-19 20:12
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 323 MDaines 23-Feb-19 07:40
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 293 cladking 23-Feb-19 14:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 294 MDaines 23-Feb-19 15:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 249 cladking 02-Mar-19 16:31
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 283 Eddie Larry 23-Feb-19 16:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 290 Spiros 25-Feb-19 00:41
On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 332 MDaines 25-Feb-19 14:49
Re: On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 261 Spiros 04-Mar-19 01:11
The Exalted Sumero-Greek EN 263 MDaines 04-Mar-19 18:24
A Big Ask 328 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 01:27
Re: A Big Ask 258 MDaines 26-Feb-19 14:25
Re: A Big Ask 325 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 17:14
Re: A Big Ask 235 MDaines 26-Feb-19 19:30
Re: A Big Ask 248 Barbelo 26-Feb-19 20:23
Re: A Big Ask 255 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:13
Re: A Big Ask 205 Barbelo 27-Feb-19 20:28
Re: A Big Ask 207 MDaines 28-Feb-19 14:05
Re: A Big Ask 238 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 19:59
Re: A Big Ask 256 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 00:46
Re: A Big Ask 256 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 01:19
Re: A Big Ask 277 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 05:20
Re: A Weird Ask 261 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 11:13
Re: A Weird Ask 240 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 05:12
Re: A Weird Ask 244 Barbelo 02-Mar-19 07:06
Re: A Big Ask 229 MDaines 01-Mar-19 18:35
Re: A Big Ask 226 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 21:42
Re: A Big Ask 250 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 03:33
Re: A Big Ask 223 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 17:11
Re: A Big Ask 226 MDaines 28-Feb-19 18:08
Heliopolis 243 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 20:18
Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 295 Dr. Troglodyte 04-Mar-19 23:56
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 250 MDaines 10-Mar-19 14:41
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 258 Dr. Troglodyte 12-Mar-19 00:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 222 MDaines 15-Mar-19 07:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 268 Dr. Troglodyte 15-Mar-19 16:41
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 284 molder 26-Feb-19 21:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 262 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:06
Three Wise Men 225 MDaines 02-Mar-19 15:31
Re: Three Wise Men 230 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 17:05
Harran and the Sabians 247 MDaines 03-Mar-19 08:33
Re: Harran and the Sabians 265 Thanos5150 03-Mar-19 16:40
Re: Harran and the Sabians 247 MDaines 03-Mar-19 19:24
Re: Harran and the Sabians 213 Thanos5150 06-Mar-19 01:50
Re: Harran and the Sabians 218 MDaines 06-Mar-19 08:22
Re: Harran and the Sabians 206 Thanos5150 07-Mar-19 02:09
Re: Harran and the Sabians 233 MDaines 07-Mar-19 08:20
On the subject of Ebla and the Feather of Truth 226 MDaines 08-Mar-19 08:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 268 Broker 14-Mar-19 03:25
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 216 MDaines 17-Mar-19 09:11
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 227 SandyJesse 18-Apr-19 04:33
Celestial navigation and the ship 198 MDaines 23-Apr-19 07:21
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 206 SandyJesse 25-Apr-19 01:50
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 206 SandyJesse 30-Apr-19 05:16
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 183 seasmith 03-May-19 22:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 175 MDaines 04-May-19 08:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 170 seasmith 05-May-19 01:39
BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 193 MDaines 09-May-19 09:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 177 SandyJesse 12-May-19 09:58
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 164 MDaines 12-May-19 10:22
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 158 SandyJesse 14-May-19 05:21
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 153 MDaines 14-May-19 07:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 171 SandyJesse 16-May-19 03:19
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 151 drew 15-May-19 01:21
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 140 Barbelo 15-May-19 10:48
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 175 drew 15-May-19 23:59
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 153 Barbelo 16-May-19 01:45
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 119 drew 18-Jun-19 02:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 118 Barbelo 18-Jun-19 02:43
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 156 hendrik dirker 18-Jun-19 06:59
movement of Sun along horizon 128 hendrik dirker 19-Jun-19 16:23
Solstice & the epoch1250 BC 235 hendrik dirker 20-Jun-19 07:02
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 149 MDaines 15-May-19 11:00
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 165 Horatech 15-May-19 12:10
To Easter Island? 158 MDaines 15-May-19 18:10
Re: To Easter Island? 157 Horatech 16-May-19 06:56
Re: To Easter Island? 151 Horatech 16-May-19 23:48
Re: To Easter Island? 169 Horatech 17-May-19 06:25
Re: To Easter Island? 131 Barbelo 17-May-19 10:53
Re: To Easter Island? 167 MDaines 17-May-19 11:41
What A Shame 146 Barbelo 17-May-19 21:14
Re: What A Shame 163 MDaines 18-May-19 07:57
Great Circles and Small Circles 152 Dr. Troglodyte 18-May-19 17:34
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 178 MDaines 18-May-19 19:09
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 151 Dr. Troglodyte 19-May-19 17:07
Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 181 MDaines 19-May-19 18:10
Re: Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 164 Horatech 25-May-19 10:53
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 169 Horatech 20-May-19 07:33
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 150 Horatech 21-May-19 09:52
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 167 Dr. Troglodyte 21-May-19 18:30
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 192 MDaines 23-May-19 07:51
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 170 Horatech 23-May-19 10:48
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 154 MDaines 23-May-19 17:07
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 174 Horatech 24-May-19 08:12
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 197 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 16:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 167 MDaines 23-May-19 17:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 177 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 17:31
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 197 Horatech 27-May-19 10:30
Re: What A Shame 150 Barbelo 19-May-19 20:48
Re: To Easter Island? 146 Horatech 18-May-19 09:28
Re: To Easter Island? 132 Eddie Larry 17-May-19 15:11
Re: To Easter Island? 140 Horatech 18-May-19 14:58
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 161 drew 15-May-19 23:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 158 MDaines 16-May-19 06:14
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 145 drew 16-May-19 06:42
ps 138 drew 16-May-19 07:22
Re: ps 132 Barbelo 16-May-19 11:11
Re: ps 151 MDaines 16-May-19 12:10
Re: ps 171 Thanos5150 16-May-19 16:06
Re: ps 170 Barbelo 16-May-19 21:00
Sometimes I go the long way round… 186 drew 17-May-19 00:59


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