> It was your statement about Harran being founded
> in the late 3rd millennium that needed
> substantiating – which I notice you have now
> backpedalled on.
Revising my earlier comment by a few centuries in light of more accurate information is hardly the stuff of "backpeddling", and regardless has no bearing on the point being made. Information I found of my own volition and offered voluntarily mind you. References that apparently do not rely on the Ebla tablets place the foundation of Harran at the end of the 3rd millennium and curiously newer sources still, like Graham, for some reason, ignore the Ebla tablets and cite the first mention of Harran in ancient texts being c. 2000BC as well. My interest is low regardless and no matter as the period offered by the archaeology for the founding of Harran at 2600-2400BC is just as well and accommodates the Ebla tablets.
> Perhaps because people travelled and traded, and
> Harran was a crossroads, a well-known trade
> route…. oh, I already said that, didn’t I?
But to the Egyptians...? Why and if so surely there must be some contemporary evidence to support this being true? Yes, it was a "crossroads", but at this time in particular for the Mediterranean and the Levant to Mesopotamia and Anatolia. Whatever connection between Egypt and the Harran area during the pyramid age (or earlier) would more than likely be indirect through Byblos by sea and southern Palestine by land- both proxies for a further connection with Northern Syria, which would include Ebla mind you.
In the 1st Dynasty in particular, for example, trade relations with Syria-Palestine are abundant. A relationship that abruptly ended at the end of the 1st Dynasty, but was apparently reestablished at the end of the 2nd Dynasty under Khasekhemwy. Before this even, pottery from northern Syria is found at Buto dating to the predynastic period. Of a more relevant note here is that artifacts with the catouches of Khafre and Pepi I were found at Ebla and Ebla is well attested in later times in Egypt.
Regardless, the Ubaid had a significant presence in Syria since nearly 6,000BC. Both waves of Uruk expansion in the 4th millennium pressed into Syria as well establishing and rejuvenating (preexisting Ubaid sites) several outposts there.
There is no evidence the AE came this far north and the connections between the two were by way of intermediary sites as I said throughout the greater Levant or as I (and others) have argued by way of Mesopotamians coming to Egypt from these outposts and perhaps around the Arabian Peninsula. As I have noted before, there is evidence of early Dynastic and Old Kingdom trade between Egypt and Anatolia though, again, it stands to reason this was indirect by way of the Levant.
> It seems to me that your desire for an
> impenetrable border between the two regions from
> 3000 BC until 700 BC is by far the greatest
> stretch - to what end?
This is nonsense. Even a cursory familiarity with my work says the exact opposite which I am focused on nothing greater than establishing these very connections. What I will not do, however, is make unwarranted leaps of faith to make connections that are not actually there to satisfy some "novel" idea I think I may have. If you want to make some connection between Egypt and Harran in the pyramid age, best of luck to you but for now the trail ends in the greater Levant.
> I don't know. As for the
> Sabians, once again and as you must have read, it
> was the result of my own translating that leads me
> to believe they were indeed around as early as
> 2600 BC.
Unless I missed something, what you said is that you believe you have found evidence of Harran, not the "Sabians", dating to this time:
The Sumerian name in full comprising three symbols, HAR-RA-AN, is attested from around 2500 BC and given as ‘route, passage, path’, a description that corresponds well. I have found meanings pertaining to commerce and financial operations connected to the name at around 3000 BC.
This is the stretch-equating the Sabians and Harran of the 3rd millennium as being one and the same. You seemed to agree with the wisdom of this so I am not sure what set you off.
> Never mind.
As you wish.
The connection between Harran and Ebla in the 3rd millennium is established by the Ebla texts. Ebla, and Syria at large, whether direct and/or indirect, had a significant known connection with both Egypt and Mesopotamia going back to and through the relevant periods of time, namely the 4th and 3rd millenniums. I would suggest what you are looking for is not a direct Egypt to Harran connection, but rather and indirect one with Ebla (Syria) as the intermediary between the two.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06-Mar-19 01:52 by Thanos5150.