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Thanos writes “These connections are nearly 2,000yrs or more after the fact and have no relevance to Egyptian history prior to these times. The relationship with Harran, for example, was established in the 7th century BC when the Assyrians invaded and conquered Egypt. Harran itself was not even founded until the end of the 3rd millennium. The poorly documented Sabians, mostly from less than credible Arab accounts, are from AD times and the connection they have with Egypt is only by way of their alleged belief in some form of Hermeticism. The connection between Hermes and Thoth was made in the Ptolemaic Period and one imposed by the Greeks with no historical relevance prior to its invention.”

The founding of Harran at the end of the 3rd millennium? Do you know of a text that establishes plainly that Harran did not exist earlier than that? Of course, there is the mention of Harran in Genesis, not that it helps with a timeframe. There is a town not too far away from Harran, ancient Edessa now called Sanliurfa, that has some rather lovely gardens and an ongoing tradition concerning Abraham. Apparently, it was on a par with Harran for its teachings at one time – Arabian source in AD, of course.

The Syrian Ebla tablets gave Harran as ‘a crossroads for trade in the Middle East’ at around 2300 BC. It would have been active well before that if it was already known far and wide as a crossroads. In fact, its very position along with this description would no doubt mean that Harran was in full contact with Egypt in the 3rd millennium, if not before.

The Sumerian name in full comprising three symbols, HAR-RA-AN, is attested from around 2500 BC and given as ‘route, passage, path’, a description that corresponds well. I have found meanings pertaining to commerce and financial operations connected to the name at around 3000 BC. It would be very interesting to know of a document that claims its founding. Otherwise, it will be a matter of opinion and mine will continue to lean towards ‘an age-old place’.

As for Greek Hermes becoming associated with Egyptian Thoth, perhaps it was a decision made by those pesky Greeks…or not? Plagiarism? They had an awful lot of similar/identical attributes, that’s for sure – apart from the ibis head, of course. Might they all have come from a third, perhaps older source?

And, of course, you’re quite right: Second hand accounts of ancient events given by Arabs in the 1st millennium AD leaning on older accounts given by Christians who wrote that, according to their 'source', pagans claimed the ‘new’ name of Sabians – by which we are made to understand that they had no right to it beforehand - are indeed to be handled with caution. That also begs the question of who they claimed the real Sabians were, the ones that had already been mentioned several times in the Qu’ran by then and were apparently untouchable. Perhaps they existed elsewhere but, in the meantime, I have found at least four occurrences of the epithet SHA-BI in a totally pagan setting in a text that I daresay you will prefer to continue to call The Instructions of Shuruppak. It dates to 2600 BC and it’s first hand – no Arabs, no Christians, only me. That name, composed of two symbols, has more to do with beer than with stars, but one doesn’t rule out the other. It’s the name of HAR-RA-AN that proves the people to be astronomers, but also brewers… References available on demand.

But I'm still interested in the origin of that Great Pyramid ship and would prefer to stay with that subject.

Madeleine



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03-Mar-19 16:23 by MDaines.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 3377 MDaines 22-Feb-19 09:52
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 449 Thanos5150 22-Feb-19 16:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 317 MDaines 23-Feb-19 18:01
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 285 Thanos5150 24-Feb-19 03:06
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 306 Eddie Larry 22-Feb-19 18:39
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 286 cladking 22-Feb-19 20:12
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 275 MDaines 23-Feb-19 07:40
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 242 cladking 23-Feb-19 14:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 245 MDaines 23-Feb-19 15:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 191 cladking 02-Mar-19 16:31
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 229 Eddie Larry 23-Feb-19 16:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 237 Spiros 25-Feb-19 00:41
On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 268 MDaines 25-Feb-19 14:49
Re: On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 210 Spiros 04-Mar-19 01:11
The Exalted Sumero-Greek EN 207 MDaines 04-Mar-19 18:24
A Big Ask 274 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 01:27
Re: A Big Ask 219 MDaines 26-Feb-19 14:25
Re: A Big Ask 267 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 17:14
Re: A Big Ask 190 MDaines 26-Feb-19 19:30
Re: A Big Ask 210 Barbelo 26-Feb-19 20:23
Re: A Big Ask 215 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:13
Re: A Big Ask 173 Barbelo 27-Feb-19 20:28
Re: A Big Ask 168 MDaines 28-Feb-19 14:05
Re: A Big Ask 202 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 19:59
Re: A Big Ask 206 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 00:46
Re: A Big Ask 204 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 01:19
Re: A Big Ask 210 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 05:20
Re: A Weird Ask 191 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 11:13
Re: A Weird Ask 195 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 05:12
Re: A Weird Ask 202 Barbelo 02-Mar-19 07:06
Re: A Big Ask 191 MDaines 01-Mar-19 18:35
Re: A Big Ask 191 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 21:42
Re: A Big Ask 202 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 03:33
Re: A Big Ask 183 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 17:11
Re: A Big Ask 178 MDaines 28-Feb-19 18:08
Heliopolis 198 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 20:18
Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 242 Dr. Troglodyte 04-Mar-19 23:56
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 203 MDaines 10-Mar-19 14:41
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 203 Dr. Troglodyte 12-Mar-19 00:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 179 MDaines 15-Mar-19 07:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 213 Dr. Troglodyte 15-Mar-19 16:41
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 244 molder 26-Feb-19 21:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 212 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:06
Three Wise Men 193 MDaines 02-Mar-19 15:31
Re: Three Wise Men 195 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 17:05
Harran and the Sabians 205 MDaines 03-Mar-19 08:33
Re: Harran and the Sabians 200 Thanos5150 03-Mar-19 16:40
Re: Harran and the Sabians 215 MDaines 03-Mar-19 19:24
Re: Harran and the Sabians 168 Thanos5150 06-Mar-19 01:50
Re: Harran and the Sabians 185 MDaines 06-Mar-19 08:22
Re: Harran and the Sabians 174 Thanos5150 07-Mar-19 02:09
Re: Harran and the Sabians 185 MDaines 07-Mar-19 08:20
On the subject of Ebla and the Feather of Truth 189 MDaines 08-Mar-19 08:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 201 Broker 14-Mar-19 03:25
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 186 MDaines 17-Mar-19 09:11
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 171 SandyJesse 18-Apr-19 04:33
Celestial navigation and the ship 163 MDaines 23-Apr-19 07:21
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 143 SandyJesse 25-Apr-19 01:50
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 142 SandyJesse 30-Apr-19 05:16
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 138 seasmith 03-May-19 22:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 139 MDaines 04-May-19 08:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 134 seasmith 05-May-19 01:39
BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 144 MDaines 09-May-19 09:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 119 SandyJesse 12-May-19 09:58
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 130 MDaines 12-May-19 10:22
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 105 SandyJesse 14-May-19 05:21
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 117 MDaines 14-May-19 07:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 107 SandyJesse 16-May-19 03:19
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 116 drew 15-May-19 01:21
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 110 Barbelo 15-May-19 10:48
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 119 drew 15-May-19 23:59
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 114 Barbelo 16-May-19 01:45
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 73 drew 18-Jun-19 02:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 79 Barbelo 18-Jun-19 02:43
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 116 hendrik dirker 18-Jun-19 06:59
movement of Sun along horizon 84 hendrik dirker 19-Jun-19 16:23
Solstice & the epoch1250 BC 161 hendrik dirker 20-Jun-19 07:02
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 111 MDaines 15-May-19 11:00
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 131 Horatech 15-May-19 12:10
To Easter Island? 120 MDaines 15-May-19 18:10
Re: To Easter Island? 112 Horatech 16-May-19 06:56
Re: To Easter Island? 114 Horatech 16-May-19 23:48
Re: To Easter Island? 122 Horatech 17-May-19 06:25
Re: To Easter Island? 102 Barbelo 17-May-19 10:53
Re: To Easter Island? 132 MDaines 17-May-19 11:41
What A Shame 112 Barbelo 17-May-19 21:14
Re: What A Shame 122 MDaines 18-May-19 07:57
Great Circles and Small Circles 114 Dr. Troglodyte 18-May-19 17:34
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 140 MDaines 18-May-19 19:09
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 122 Dr. Troglodyte 19-May-19 17:07
Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 131 MDaines 19-May-19 18:10
Re: Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 115 Horatech 25-May-19 10:53
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 134 Horatech 20-May-19 07:33
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 113 Horatech 21-May-19 09:52
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 127 Dr. Troglodyte 21-May-19 18:30
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 143 MDaines 23-May-19 07:51
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 131 Horatech 23-May-19 10:48
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 111 MDaines 23-May-19 17:07
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 122 Horatech 24-May-19 08:12
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 138 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 16:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 125 MDaines 23-May-19 17:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 135 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 17:31
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 127 Horatech 27-May-19 10:30
Re: What A Shame 115 Barbelo 19-May-19 20:48
Re: To Easter Island? 111 Horatech 18-May-19 09:28
Re: To Easter Island? 102 Eddie Larry 17-May-19 15:11
Re: To Easter Island? 103 Horatech 18-May-19 14:58
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 117 drew 15-May-19 23:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 109 MDaines 16-May-19 06:14
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 108 drew 16-May-19 06:42
ps 104 drew 16-May-19 07:22
Re: ps 104 Barbelo 16-May-19 11:11
Re: ps 116 MDaines 16-May-19 12:10
Re: ps 133 Thanos5150 16-May-19 16:06
Re: ps 138 Barbelo 16-May-19 21:00
Sometimes I go the long way round… 145 drew 17-May-19 00:59


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