Mysteries :  The Official forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Gardiner in his update on the Westcar Papyrus story of Djedi the Magician [1] concludes “the word ipwt means “secret chambers” and that Cheops was seeking for details concerning the secret chambers of the primeval sanctuary of Thoth, in order that he may copy the same when building his pyramid” Cheops is of course Khufu and thus Khufu wants to copy the secret chambers of the sanctuary of Thoth when building his pyramid. Berrgren [2] disputes Gardiner’s interpretation of ipwt as secret chambers and offers alternatives for ‘Ipwt to be translated as plans, measurements or numbers. Thus Gardiners statement may be re-written as “the word ipwt means “plans, measurements or numbers” and that Khufu was seeking for details concerning the plans, measurements or numbers of the primeval sanctuary of Thoth, in order that he may copy the same when building his pyramid”

Gardiner offers on p3 “I have no light to throw on the whereabouts of the wnt; it may be the name of the sanctuary of Hermopolis Magna, or it may be the name of an earlier sanctuary of Thoth in the Delta; or it may be a purely mythical building”. In my interpretation of the story, I am suggesting the story itself is mythological and by extension, the sanctuary of Thoth is a mythical building.

Kelly [3] in her book provides a thorough examination of indigenous cultures surviving to present day across Australia, Africa and North America. She finds commonality in pre-literate cultures “Astronomy is a critical science for all peoples. Western cultures store that information in books; indigenous cultures encode it in mythology.” She describes a process of storytelling that aids in memorialisation of important information. I suggest the story of Djedi is such a mythological story encoding astronomical detail as well as numbers, plans or measurements related to Khufu’s Pyramid.

The story tells us of Djedi’s fantastic age, appetite and capabilities which I identify as a marker of encoded information to aid memorialisation. As I have established, the story is about Khufu’s desire to use measurements / plans / numbers of the House of Thoth in his own Pyramid appears to provide information about these measurements encoded within the story “He's a simple citizen, but 110 years old, eats 500 loaves of bread, a shoulder of beef and drinks 100 jars of beer every day.”. If we suggest that the shoulder of beef is indicative of one quarter of the beast hence we need to multiply other figures by 4. I suggest that eating and drinking are both activities usually requiring a hand and as such a hand-based measure is most likely a palm. The hieroglyph for a palm is a crescent shaped moon, which is likely also associated with Thoth as the Lunar deity responsible for measurements. for the numbers Using palms for numbers in this statement, we get some interesting results:
1. 110 (Djedi’s age in years) x 4 = 440 = Base Length of Khufu’s Pyramid (G1)in Royal Cubits
2. 500 (Loaves of bread) x 4 = 2000 = Proposed Height of the Khufu’s Pyramid in Palms - Divide by 7 to get to ~285 Royal Cubits
3. 100 (Jars of Beer) x 4 = 400 palms = 57.14 Royal Cubits = 30m - the established height of G1-a, G1-b and G1-c

I note that the height of Khufu’s pyramid proposed to be encoded of ~285 Royal Cubits varies from currently accepted height of 280 Royal Cubits by less than 2%. The generally accepted height of 280 Royal Cubits comes from Petrie’s[7] study of the pyramids and is the estimate provided by him based on the measurements he could undertake. The difference of 5 Royal Cubits equates to ~2.6m of additional height which is far more that the +/- 7 inches that Petrie allows for. Potential causes for this difference include:
a) A difference in the length of the Royal Cubit;
b) An error in Petrie's measurement of the height of the Great Pyramid;
c) An error in the AE measurement of the height of the Great Pyramid - ie actuals vs planned height; and
d) Erosion of the core and/or casing blocks.

In the above list, if the shift in size of the Royal Cubit were at play, it would correspond to a shift in dimensions of the base length as well. Given my theory calls out a base length, this creates a seperate problem and thus, I have discarded this option. I am working through options b and d simultaneously. Investigating option b, Petrie has done a magnificent job explaining his apparatus, method, plan for survey and various calibration / execution details. Petrie tells us quite explicitly that he is calculating the height of the great Pyramid using its base length and the mean angle. I infer therefore he is using a formula:

Pyramid Height = 1/2 x Baselength x tan (mean angle)

He outlines the Base Length he has determined in S21 - an average of the four sides of 9068.8 inches with a mean deviation of 0.65 inches. When he uses this figure in the subsequent height calculation, he reduces the error margin to +/-0.5 inches. The difference in error margin here is not material. Again, the base length measured is in concordance with the Royal Cubit length (I note that Petrie also provides a determination of the Royal Cubit so this is a somewhat circular argument). Therefore, I have looked at possible sources of error in calculating the mean angle. The key problem that Petrie has attempted to overcome is a lack of significant data on the angle of the casing stones. He makes mention that occasional specimens measure angles of up to 54 degrees - it is unclear whether he is referring to the case stone or the core masonry in that statement. He also makes mention that the core masonry dips as the levels rise. This brings into question whether the mean angle can be appropriately determined.

To illustrate the point, a modern measurement of a casing stone has been made by Lightbody [6] in his paper on the controversial casing stone from the Scottish Museum:
Although large parts of the stone are broken off and missing, its overall rectilinear dimensions can be reconstructed from the surviving material, with a margin of error of +/- 5 mm, as follows:
65 cm wide 
52 cm in height 
93 cm from front to rear at the base
51 cm from front to rear on the top.

To calculate the maximum angle, assuming a right angle base, we can therefore use a maximum height: 52.5 cm
Min difference between front to rear at base and at top: 92.5 - 51.5 = 41

The height of the great pyramid based on this scenario would be (52.5/41) x 220 = 281.7 Royal Cubits. Using an inverse tan, this also yields an angle of 52 degrees. Lightbody also acknowledges direct measurements of the casing stone angle which he quotes as "Our angular measurements showed that within our margins of error (+/- 0.25°), the face of the stone, when compared to the upper and lower flat surfaces, and hence the horizon, is at the correct angle known for the Great Pyramid’s faces, of around 51.84 degrees."

Turning my thinking towards erosion, as in the case of the stone studied by Lightbody, many of the casing stones that remain have been severely eroded making measurements difficult and/or error prone. Petrie discussed the erosion in his account and provides a plate demonstrating his theory of the erosion being wind/sandblasted. This is certainly one of the erosive forces that have been applied to the Pyramid. An open question in my mind is that we are told that the majority of the casing stones were removed long ago for the building of a mosque and that an earthquake enabled this removal by shifting the casing stones. Perhaps the earthquake resulted in a small shift of the core and the process of removal of the casing stones has caused erosion through grinding and stone fall damage, chipping away at the edge of the core, potentially altering the measurements.

In any case, this demonstrates the potential for error in the calculation of the height of the pyramid. Lightbody's casing stone, taken at the worst of the error quoted for the linear measurements could yield a Pyramid height 1.7 Cubits or ~89cm higher than Petrie's calculation, over four times the error that Petrie quoted of 7 inches. When using Lightbody's angular measurements taken to the maximum error yielding an angle of 51.84+0.25 degrees = 52.09 would create potential for the Pyramid to be 282.5 Royal Cubits high - half the difference between my Westcar Papyrus theory and Petrie's reported height. If the mean angle measured by Petrie is out by just 30 minutes or half a degree from that which was there when the pyramid was built, it would align with the height encoded in the Westcar Papyrus.

With the measurements outlined above would create a distance from apex to midpoint on the base of approximately 360 RC using Pythagoras theorem. This may correlate to the Egyptian Calendar system which operated on 12 months x 30 days = 360 days based on the Decan stars with 5 days added to true up to a solar year. Thoth is recognised as a lunar deity. According to Boylan

“The ancient Egyptians were an agricultural people. They were interested, therefore, in setting up an exact calendar. The moon would naturally play a chief part in fixing the details of the calendar. The easily observed regularity of the moon’s phases furnished a better basis for marking of periods of time than the variations of solar phenomena. Hence at a very early period in Egypt, as elsewhere, the moon was taken as the chief measurer of time.”

With respect to Djedi’s capabilities, they are again indicative of aids to memorialisation. The first that is brought to bear is “He is also said to be able to make wild lions so obedient that the animal would follow him with a cord dragging on the ground.”. Here, I suggest that the wild lion in question is the Constellation of Leo. There is no evidence that the AE in the time of the 4th Dynasty observed Leo or a Lion. However, Lull and Belmonte identify a lion constellation in the New Kingdom [3] in table 6.1 and discussion on p158. The Westcar Papyrus is dated to the 18th to 16th century BC, potentially placing it in the new kingdom where this knowledge is accepted. Lull and Belmonte also concur that the lion is associated with Leo in table 6.1. I note that the passage of the "cord dragging along the ground" is indicating that the cord is not taught but slack and therefore forms an ellipse shape connecting the lion with another zodiacal star or constellation.

Djedi’s other capabilities include “He is capable of resurrecting decapitated beings.” Djedi demonstrates this capability to Khufu by decapitating a Goose, an unspecified water bird and a Bull. Lull and Belmonte suggest a Bull related constellation is known in the new kingdom. On p181, Lull and Belmonte identify Taurus in the Zodiac of Dendara. It is not possible to fully establish recognition of Taurus prior. The Goose and unspecified water bird I suggest are also constellations but remain unidentifiable. There are several possibilities I offer - the Zodiac of Dendara has two potential candidates for a Goose. There is a Goose within Lull and Belmonte which they discuss as a bird. Clagget [5] also identifies Hapy [Decan 19] in relation to the astronomical ceiling of the tomb of Senmut, and in the related footnote says is represented by two geese. Hapi is further identified in Lull and Belmonte to Aquarius.

Djedi’s name is made up of a Djed symbol and a reed symbol. Djed - Here I am referencing the Wikipedia entry for Djed which claims the Djed symbol is one of the most common symbols in ancient Egyptian religion. Djed is associated with Osiris and is commonly believed to mean his backbone. Djed is symbolised as a pillar with 4 platforms and is associated with stability. According to the Encyclopaedia of Ancient Egypt, Margaret Bunson p101 Regarding Djed “It was the sacred sign of the god OSIRIS, considered the deity’s backbone… The Djed Pillar Festival, a cultic celebration of the symbol and its powers was held annually in Egypt… The priests raised up the Djed Pillar on the first day of SHOMU, the season of harvesting on the Nile.” The Encyclopaedia also notes that a mock battle took place following the raising of the Djed Pillar and Oxen were run around the walls of the capital to honour the founding of Memphis by Menes. I suggest the raising of the Djed pillar is representative of an ancient sky/star cult and Djed is a constellation or asterism. Based on the connection to Leo, Taurus and Osiris (portion of Orion), the most obvious candidate appears to be a portion of Gemini.

I suggest that the dates of travel and the date of prophecy of the birth of the third son of Redjeret are dates for viewing the sky to observe the desired phenomena but have not identified what that phenomena is.

I think encoding of astronomical observations or data may be identified in other stories in the Westcar Papyrus. Referring to Cooke[4], the story of the Wax Crocodile potentially takes on another meaning.In Cooke, p50, The wife of Ubba-Anir (a priest) ate, drank and took pleasure with a young man from the suite of the visiting king. Ubba-Anir upon hearing this fashions a wax crocodile which is thrown into the water when the young man is bathing to become a real crocodile which captures the young man. Could this be telling the story of rrt or Isis-Djamet - the constellation of the female hippopotamus with a crocodile tail as set out on p164 of Lull and Belmonte. Further, could the name of Redjaret found in the story of Djedi be a portmanteau of rrt and Djamet?

It is clear to me that the Westcar Papyrus story of Djedi encodes details in a mythological story. This analysis of the story has attempted only a partial decoding and the weight of evidence provided implores further attempts to understand the events of the story of Djedi and the remaining stories of the Westcar Papyrus.


[1] Gardiner, Alan H. “The Secret Chambers of the Sanctuary of Thoth.” The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, vol. 11, no. 1/2, 1925, pp. 2–5. JSTOR, JSTOR,
[2] Berrgren, Jenny, “The ‘Ipwt in Papyrus Westcar (7,5-8; 9,1-5)”, Uppsala University Department of Archeology and Ancient History accessed from []
[3] Kelly, Lynne, “The Memory Code”, 2016 Publisher: Allen & Unwin.
[3] Jose Lull and Juan Antonio Belmonte, “Constellations of Ancient Egypt”, accessed from []
[4] Cooke, J. Hunt. “The Westcar Papyrus.” The Biblical World, vol. 4, no. 1, 1894, pp. 49–53. JSTOR, JSTOR,
[5] Clagett, Marshall, “Ancient Egyptian Science: Calendars, clocks, and astronomy”, p222
[6] D. I. Lightbody, ‘Biography of a Great Pyramid Casing Stone’, JAEA 1, 2016, pp. 39-56. []
[7] Petrie, W. M. Flinders. The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh. 1st ed. London: Field and Tuer; New York: Scribner & Welford, 1883. Republished online at The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh Online. Ed. Ronald Birdsall, 2003. Rev. August 27, 2014 []
[8] Boylan, Patrick “Thoth, the Hermes of Egypt : a study of some aspects of theological thought in ancient Egypt”, p83

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 15-Jan-19 11:42 by engbren.

Options: ReplyQuote

Subject Views Written By Posted
A mythological interpretation of Djedi the Magician 1721 engbren 28-Dec-18 10:39
Basics 358 Dr. Troglodyte 28-Dec-18 18:50
Re: Basics 325 engbren 29-Dec-18 02:38
Re: Basics 266 engbren 04-Jan-19 03:22
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 279 engbren 29-Dec-18 22:01
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 274 engbren 31-Dec-18 12:11
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 262 engbren 02-Jan-19 08:58
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 327 engbren 04-Jan-19 09:17
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 258 engbren 06-Jan-19 00:45
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 254 engbren 07-Jan-19 05:10
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 271 engbren 07-Jan-19 23:11
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 415 engbren 08-Jan-19 02:43
Re: An alternative interpretation of Djedi the Magician of the Westcar Papyrus 879 engbren 15-Jan-19 03:32
A mythological interpretation of the Westcar Papyrus story of Djedi the magician 296 engbren 16-Jan-19 23:44
Re: A mythological interpretation of the Westcar Papyrus story of Djedi the magician 244 engbren 05-Feb-19 13:23
Re: A mythological interpretation of the Westcar Papyrus story of Djedi the magician 335 engbren 09-Feb-19 11:38
Re: A mythological interpretation of Djedi the Magician 253 engbren 26-Jan-19 14:53
Re: A mythological interpretation of Djedi the Magician 287 engbren 30-Jan-19 13:11

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.