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Dr. Troglodyte Wrote:
> From 2001,
> Miroslav Verner’s
> account addressed the ambiguity of the
> interpretations among the scholars of the time
> regarding the then known markings discovered on
> the roofing blocks of the pit for Khufu I.

He does, but you'll note he also says found exclusively are Djedefre's throne name and Golden Horus name meaning he himself was king at the time. The "ambiguity" is concerning the date, not if Djedfre was pharaoh at this time.

These marks and inscriptions seem to form a coherent collection relating to different stages of the same
building project realised by Djedefra's crews. Such marks and inscriptions usually pertain to the breaking of the blocks in the quarry, their transportation, their storage and manipulation in the building site itself, etc. In this context,
the attribution of just a single inscription - and what is more, the only one with a date - on all the blocks from the boat pit to somebody other than Djedefra does not seem to be very plausible.

> Ten years later, in 2011, the Director of the
> Waseda University Mission Team in Egypt, Sakuji
> Yoshimura, reported regarding Khufu II that
> [“i]…while the fillings around the sides of
> the covering stone were being cleaned, the team
> uncovered the cartouche of the Fourth-Dynasty king
> Khufu inscribed on one of these blocks, and beside
> it the name of the crown prince Djedefre.
> This, he argued, meant that this boat was
> constructed during the reign of King Khufu and
> not, like the first boat now on display at a
> special museum on the plateau
, during the
> reign of his son and successor Djedefre


Begin 35:41.

5 Khufu cartouches were discovered in Khufu II. Only one cartouche of Djedefre was found, but also found was his Golden Horus name which leads them to believe he was still prince at the time which I do not think makes much sense. This is but one of the pharaoh's royal titularies which I do not see where it is ever associated with being a "prince" if not specifically the king and if you read Verner it is the presence of these two names that clearly establishes Djedefre as the king at the time which is not disputed by the Egyptologists of Khufu II. Why would this now mean in Khufu II he is the Crown Prince" just because Khufu's catouche is found? Not to mention a name in a cartouche is a pharaoh's throne name supposedly meaning he has ascending to kingship. The meaning of the Golden Horus name is disputed regardless, however, it appears the only reason they say this is to mean he was prince at the time is because Khufu's cartouche is also found and not because of precedent or known meaning.

I also find it strange that in Khufu I Djedfre's name is found a whopping 18 times, and yet in Khufu II Khufu's name is only found 5 times across 41 blocks which all may not even be on 5 different blocks.

Also found is a date on one of the blocks which says the 14th year of presumably Khufu's reign which only makes matters worse. So taking this at face value, Khufu was supposedly closing up this boat pit during the 14th year of his reign. He would not reach the height of the relieving chambers for another 3yrs, but still thought it best to build and finish a boat pit on the quarry side of the pyramid no less. The diary of Merer notes Khufu's 27th year of reign, some 13yrs later, which some Egyptologists take this as the time they were finishing quarrying the casing stones.

Djedfre was of an age not just to be prince, but clearly in line for the throne attaining both his throne and Golden Horus names despite the fact he was supposedly not even king yet. This is quite interesting because Khufu's eldest son Kawab was the Crown Prince and next in line for the throne and lived to an age to become a vizier, priest of Selket, and get married and have several children. And yet there is Djedefre his younger half brother running a quarry crew in the 14th year of Khufu's reign sporting throne and Golden horus name...?

Regardless, I can't say it makes much sense for Djedefre's name, let alone his cartouche (throne) and Golden Horus name, to be on a block at all if Khufu was still pharaoh regardless of whether he was "completing it for his father" or not.

> The generalization does not hold; Khufu was still
> King during the marking of the blocks roofing the
> boat pit for Khufu II.

The generalization being:

As I have noted before regarding boat pits in general, this practice was seemingly abandoned after the 2nd Dynasty in which for reasons unknown, if they are even related, Djedefre revived the practice…

The evidence strongly suggests Djedefre was responsible for the southern boat pits…”

The generalization does in fact hold because, one-it did end in the 2nd Dynasty. Secondly, the presence of Djedfre's cartouche and Golden Horus name in Khufu II, clearly shows he had a uniquely direct influence on Khufu II which was fully realized at some point later with Khufu I. The presence of the Khufu cartouches does not mean Djedfre was not responsible for Khufu II whether Khufu was still king or not. It also says he was near or was the king at that point and the fact Khufu's name was found only 5 times, perhaps on just a few blocks, compared to Djedfre's 18 in Khufu I, doesn't tell us much as to who started what when.

The southern boat pits are plain rectangles clearly made to be roofed with unusually massive blocks.

Compare to the eastern boat pit shaped like an actual boat:

These were made by Khufu for Khufu all at the same time and for the same purpose? It makes no sense.

Lets assume that Khufu did make the southern pits-was their original purpose to house boats? Djedfre was the first pharaoh to connect his cartouche to the sun god RA-is it possible Djedefre later converted their purpose to house boats as part of his new found religious beliefs in which he also later built the east side pits as well yet this time in the shape of actual boats given he had the freedom to do so from scratch?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06-Nov-18 17:27 by Thanos5150.

Options: ReplyQuote

Subject Views Written By Posted
G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 1961 Thanos5150 01-Nov-18 02:52
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 286 Dr. Troglodyte 01-Nov-18 16:15
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 259 Thanos5150 02-Nov-18 01:27
Khufu II vs Khufu I 306 Dr. Troglodyte 06-Nov-18 00:50
Re: Khufu II vs Khufu I 391 Thanos5150 06-Nov-18 06:57
Re: Khufu II vs Khufu I 269 Martin Stower 06-Nov-18 19:21
Re: Khufu II vs Khufu I 229 Spiros 06-Nov-18 21:14
Re: Khufu II vs Khufu I 248 Martin Stower 06-Nov-18 23:05
Re: Khufu II vs Khufu I 242 Thanos5150 06-Nov-18 23:34
Re: Khufu II vs Khufu I 285 Martin Stower 06-Nov-18 23:55
Re: Khufu II vs Khufu I 230 Thanos5150 07-Nov-18 01:55
Off topic 244 Hanslune 07-Nov-18 03:32
Misnomers [?] 257 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Misnomers [?] 241 Martin Stower 07-Nov-18 18:38
Re: Misnomers [?] 238 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Nov-18 18:59
Re: Misnomers [?] 229 Martin Stower 07-Nov-18 19:16
Re: Misnomers [?] 266 Manu 07-Nov-18 21:28
Re: Misnomers [?] 232 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Nov-18 22:39
Re: Misnomers [?] 260 Martin Stower 07-Nov-18 23:33
Re: Misnomers [?] 226 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Nov-18 23:45
Re: Misnomers [?] 247 Manu 07-Nov-18 23:58
Re: Misnomers [?] 270 Martin Stower 08-Nov-18 12:30
Re: Misnomers [?] 219 Thanos5150 09-Nov-18 18:30
Re: Misnomers [?] 224 Thanos5150 07-Nov-18 23:54
Re: Khufu II vs Khufu I 267 Morten 11-Nov-18 00:55
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 236 Spiros 01-Nov-18 18:51
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 260 Thanos5150 02-Nov-18 01:44
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 283 Morten 02-Nov-18 02:42
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 292 Thanos5150 02-Nov-18 04:57
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 274 Morten 02-Nov-18 10:46
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 245 Thanos5150 02-Nov-18 20:48
Anyone who cites Rigano can't be too far wrong n/t 245 cladking 02-Nov-18 21:04
Re: Anyone who cites Rigano can't be too far wrong n/t 275 Martin Stower 06-Nov-18 19:37
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 338 Graham Chase 02-Nov-18 21:24
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 312 Thanos5150 06-Nov-18 03:25
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 239 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 04:28
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 234 Thanos5150 07-Nov-18 02:30
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 234 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 02:40
Maybe stating the obvious but.... 280 Warwick 13-Nov-18 17:25
Re: Maybe stating the obvious but.... 268 Martin Stower 13-Nov-18 18:17
Re: Giza Map 315 Thanos5150 15-Nov-18 00:27
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 267 Thanos5150 28-Dec-18 05:14
Re: G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre 304 Thanos5150 28-Dec-18 06:29

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