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Sorry, Manu, but can we go back a step. You wrote:

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Manu:...and that physical evidence in the chamber can be explained with an in situ job by pyramid workers.

And I responded:

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SC: Oh sure--the ancient Egyptians wrote sideways and upside-down all the time. If you can find examples of such upside-down in-situ writing outwith the GP, I'd be happy to look at it.

So I ask:

1) What evidence do you have that these marks were, as you now claim, "an in-stu job by the pyramid workers"? I only ask this because the view of mainstream has always been that the marks were painted by the quarry gangs either at the quarries or when their work (block) was being transported. Your proposition above seems to want to overturn that mainstream view.

2) If you believe the AEs wrote in-situ marks upside-down, sideways etc, can you explain why that would be easier than writing the marks the right way up?

3) As I asked in my original response, can you provide any other examples of in-situ, upside-down / sideways old hieratic writing?

You subseqently wrote:

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Manu: "He built his pyramid" means he built his pyramid.

You may be somewhat surprised to learn that I actually accept that 'Khufu' built the GP--well, kinda accept it. (For example, see my post here). The Arabic scholars state that the GP was built by Saurid. Lehner suggests Saurid may be a corruption of Suphis. And Suphis was later transliterated by Rosellini into Khufu. So yes--kinda accept it. What I have extreme trouble accepting is the chronology and I am much more in line with Schoch's thinking on this (even Bauval still insists on the relatively 'young' date of ca. 2500 BC). Those king's names we observe in the GP were written quite literally by the "FOLLOWERS of Khufu" - just like today, for example, many Christians are sometimes referred to as the "FOLLOWERS of Christ". The king's names we find in the GP all come from a much later time i.e. from those who continued to remember, respect and honour the builder, the "FOLLOWERS of Khufu". This is to say that Vyse found and copied into the GP marks from a much later period made by the "FOLLOWERS or 'FRIENDS' of Khufu" that were found somewhere outside the GP. At least, that is what the evidence suggests to me.

So, if the Sphinx and Gizamids are contemporary structures (and I have very good reason for believing that they are), then if a 4th dynasty King named Khufu repaired the Sphinx then this was not the same Khufu that built the GP but perhaps a "FOLLOWER of Khufu", a 4th dynasty king named in honour of the original. Perhaps.

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Manu: It weighs heavier than casting doubt on one mark (or three marks now) inside a chamber sealed until 200 years ago.

Trust me--there are many more than THREE painted marks being disputed here. And you know what, even if it could be proven conclusively, beyond ANY doubt whatsoever that Vyse DID forge just ONE mark (while the rest of the marks remained questionable), that ONE PROVEN FORGED MARK totally poisons the entire well. Even if it has not been proven that the other marks are fake, simply knowing that Vyse DID FAKE something in those chambers would - whether you like it or not, agree with it or not - cast doubt upon the other marks in the minds of most reasonable thinking people. For sure.

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Manu: But in any case, let's quit quibbling. Take it to the next level. That's really the message. If you had me sold by now, you should be worried.

I'd be more worried if I hadn't convinced anyone by now of my argument. And trust me--there are plenty that are convinced by it. And yet I know that there are many that are not, thus far, convinced. Such is the way of these things and I don't lose sleep over it. People are allowed to draw their own conclusions. All I ask, as I have said to you before, is that they consider and weigh ALL the evidence I present for the case for these marks having been faked is much, much greater than the sum of its parts.

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Manu: I am not going to put words into anyone's mouth only my own...

I wouldn't expect you to do otherwise.

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Manu: The best theory to explain all observations by all involved parties to date is that Khufu built his pyramid on a preexisting structure and what I have shown on my own is that the orientation, base, height, angle, indent, king chamber, and north shaft therefrom were all part of a design conceived by Hemiunu, Khufu's vizier. What that means is that substantially most of Khufu Akhet was built by him including the king chamber (courses 50-60) and relieving chambers with the quarry marks.

As I said--I kinda agree with this (except the quarry marks are, imo, fake). And I simply do not accept the mainstream chronology.

SC



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Jun-18 21:00 by Scott Creighton.

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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 717 Scott Creighton 08-Jun-18 13:43
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 617 Merrell 08-Jun-18 14:00
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 579 Scott Creighton 08-Jun-18 14:07
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 561 Martin Stower 08-Jun-18 14:13
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 575 Scott Creighton 08-Jun-18 14:17
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 576 Thunderbird 08-Jun-18 14:35
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 531 Martin Stower 08-Jun-18 14:43
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 522 Scott Creighton 08-Jun-18 14:23
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 545 Martin Stower 08-Jun-18 14:08
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 543 Scott Creighton 08-Jun-18 14:15
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 502 Martin Stower 08-Jun-18 14:30
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 479 Scott Creighton 08-Jun-18 14:32
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 477 Origyptian 08-Jun-18 15:55
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 514 Scott Creighton 08-Jun-18 14:20
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 495 Martin Stower 08-Jun-18 14:34
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 492 Manu 08-Jun-18 20:12
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 445 Corpuscles 08-Jun-18 22:16
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 469 Manu 08-Jun-18 22:52
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 439 Origyptian 08-Jun-18 23:08
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 472 Scott Creighton 09-Jun-18 11:23
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 450 Jon Ellison 09-Jun-18 11:28
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 469 Manu 09-Jun-18 14:23
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 469 Scott Creighton 09-Jun-18 14:36
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 432 Manu 09-Jun-18 15:25
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 474 Scott Creighton 09-Jun-18 15:47
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 415 Manu 09-Jun-18 16:07
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 428 Scott Creighton 09-Jun-18 16:20
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 445 Manu 09-Jun-18 16:57
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 456 Scott Creighton 09-Jun-18 19:09
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 465 Scott Creighton 09-Jun-18 20:53
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 449 Manu 09-Jun-18 15:43
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 441 Corpuscles 10-Jun-18 07:52
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 490 Martin Stower 10-Jun-18 09:56
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 443 Manu 10-Jun-18 14:11
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 421 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-18 14:39
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 422 Scott Creighton 12-Jun-18 07:53
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 442 Scott Creighton 12-Jun-18 10:34
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 455 Corpuscles 12-Jun-18 11:15
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 408 Corpuscles 13-Jun-18 02:46
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 428 Martin Stower 13-Jun-18 08:45
Thank you n/t 390 Morten 13-Jun-18 10:51
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 413 Scott Creighton 13-Jun-18 07:34
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 459 Martin Stower 13-Jun-18 08:37
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 440 Scott Creighton 13-Jun-18 20:17
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 427 Scott Creighton 13-Jun-18 21:17
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 455 Scott Creighton 14-Jun-18 07:30
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 406 Martin Stower 14-Jun-18 14:11
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 416 sfbey 14-Jun-18 14:33
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 418 Scott Creighton 14-Jun-18 14:43
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 444 Martin Stower 14-Jun-18 15:49
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Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 460 Martin Stower 17-Jul-18 10:44
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 421 DavidK 14-Jun-18 11:40
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 411 Martin Stower 13-Jun-18 21:37
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 423 Corpuscles 13-Jun-18 23:13
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 429 Morten 14-Jun-18 01:38
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 436 sfbey 13-Jun-18 17:01
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 462 Martin Stower 13-Jun-18 17:51
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 421 Morten 14-Jun-18 09:44
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 427 Scott Creighton 14-Jun-18 10:05
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 387 Morten 14-Jun-18 11:22
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 406 Scott Creighton 14-Jun-18 11:49
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 429 Morten 14-Jun-18 12:01
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 417 Scott Creighton 14-Jun-18 12:05
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 400 Martin Stower 14-Jun-18 12:37
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 377 Martin Stower 14-Jun-18 12:24
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 430 Martin Stower 14-Jul-18 23:02
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 419 Martin Stower 14-Jun-18 12:20
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 380 DavidK 14-Jun-18 17:34
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 397 DavidK 14-Jun-18 17:47
Re: Straw man.....In situ 412 Thunderbird 14-Jun-18 18:14
Re: Straw man.....In situ 417 Martin Stower 14-Jun-18 20:10
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 423 Martin Stower 14-Jun-18 21:57
Hieratic Numbers 485 Manu 15-Jun-18 06:45
Re: Hieratic Numbers 439 Martin Stower 15-Jun-18 08:37
Re: Hieratic Numbers 408 Manu 15-Jun-18 14:11
Re: Hieratic Numbers 378 Morten 16-Jun-18 01:18
Re: Hieratic Numbers 402 Manu 16-Jun-18 01:33
Re: Hieratic Numbers 377 Morten 16-Jun-18 13:14
Re: Hieratic Numbers 443 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 13:20
Re: Hieratic Numbers 375 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 13:32
Re: Hieratic Numbers 406 Morten 16-Jun-18 13:41
Re: Hieratic Numbers 414 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 14:08
Re: Hieratic Numbers 370 Morten 16-Jun-18 14:18
Re: Hieratic Numbers 425 Corpuscles 16-Jun-18 14:43
Re: Hieratic Numbers 339 Morten 16-Jun-18 14:53
Re: Hieratic Numbers 428 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 14:45
Re: Hieratic Numbers 360 Corpuscles 16-Jun-18 15:09
Re: Hieratic Numbers 385 Morten 16-Jun-18 15:11
Re: Hieratic Numbers 378 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 15:32
Re: Hieratic Numbers 365 Morten 16-Jun-18 15:45
Re: Hieratic Numbers 427 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 16:06
Re: Hieratic Numbers 397 Morten 16-Jun-18 16:15
Re: Hieratic Numbers 380 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 16:17
Re: Hieratic Numbers 408 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 16:51
Re: Hieratic Numbers 424 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 17:32
Re: Hieratic Numbers 382 Morten 16-Jun-18 18:13
Re: Hieratic Numbers 432 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 18:43
Re: Hieratic Numbers 377 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 19:06
Re: Hieratic Numbers 419 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 18:33
Re: Hieratic Numbers 412 R Avry Wilson 16-Jun-18 17:22
Re: Hieratic Numbers 384 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 15:58
Motive Means and Opportunity= suspicion only 380 Corpuscles 16-Jun-18 16:06
Re: Motive Means and Opportunity= suspicion only 409 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 17:40
Re: Motive Means and Opportunity= suspicion only 411 Corpuscles 18-Jun-18 23:51
Re: Motive Means and Opportunity= suspicion only 507 Martin Stower 19-Jun-18 10:52
Re: Hieratic Numbers 356 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 15:27
Re: Hieratic Numbers 376 Thanos5150 16-Jun-18 14:33
Re: Hieratic Numbers 410 Morten 16-Jun-18 14:42
Re: Hieratic Numbers 374 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 14:35
Re: Hieratic Numbers 435 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 13:30
Re: Hieratic Numbers 390 Morten 16-Jun-18 13:58
Re: Hieratic Numbers 439 sfbey 15-Jun-18 14:36
Re: Hieratic Numbers 445 Manu 15-Jun-18 15:03
Re: Hieratic Numbers 348 sfbey 15-Jun-18 15:14
Re: Hieratic Numbers 420 Manu 15-Jun-18 15:45
Re: Hieratic Numbers 449 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-18 15:28
Re: Hieratic Numbers 406 sfbey 15-Jun-18 15:36
Re: Hieratic Numbers 387 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-18 15:44
Re: Hieratic Numbers 439 Martin Stower 15-Jun-18 16:50
Re: Hieratic Numbers 405 Martin Stower 15-Jun-18 21:45
Re: Hieratic Numbers 443 Manu 15-Jun-18 15:52
Re: Hieratic Numbers 423 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-18 16:07
Re: Hieratic Numbers 372 cladking 15-Jun-18 16:26
Re: Hieratic Numbers 430 Manu 15-Jun-18 17:01
Re: Hieratic Numbers 393 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-18 17:36
Re: Hieratic Numbers 419 Manu 15-Jun-18 18:01
Re: Hieratic Numbers 398 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-18 18:36
Re: Hieratic Numbers 409 Martin Stower 15-Jun-18 22:00
Re: Hieratic Numbers 392 Manu 16-Jun-18 01:05
Re: Hieratic Numbers 389 Origyptian 16-Jun-18 01:38
Re: Hieratic Numbers 353 Morten 18-Jun-18 10:38
Re: Hieratic Numbers 377 Manu 16-Jun-18 04:57
Re: Hieratic Numbers 421 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 10:27
Re: Hieratic Numbers 397 cladking 15-Jun-18 16:29
Re: Hieratic Numbers 423 gulsbo 15-Jun-18 17:49
Re: Hieratic Numbers 378 Origyptian 16-Jun-18 00:51
Re: Hieratic Numbers 444 Origyptian 16-Jun-18 00:39
Re: Hieratic Numbers 366 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 00:52
Re: Hieratic Numbers 406 Origyptian 16-Jun-18 01:33
Re: Hieratic Numbers 412 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 09:20
Re: Hieratic Numbers 398 Origyptian 16-Jun-18 12:14
Re: Hieratic Numbers 385 Morten 16-Jun-18 01:48
Re: Hieratic Numbers 420 Manu 16-Jun-18 02:34
Re: Hieratic Numbers 392 R Avry Wilson 16-Jun-18 02:46
Re: Hieratic Numbers 381 Manu 16-Jun-18 02:51
Re: Hieratic Numbers 369 R Avry Wilson 16-Jun-18 04:24
Re: Questioning......History : ) 381 Thunderbird 16-Jun-18 17:23
Re: Hieratic Numbers 357 Origyptian 16-Jun-18 04:32
Re: Hieratic Numbers 398 R Avry Wilson 16-Jun-18 04:38
Re: Hieratic Numbers 378 gulsbo 18-Jun-18 12:19
Re: Hieratic Numbers 395 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 09:37
Re: Hieratic Numbers 423 Morten 16-Jun-18 10:05
Re: Hieratic Numbers 411 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 13:10
Re: Hieratic Numbers 411 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 13:17
Re: Hieratic Numbers 446 gulsbo 18-Jun-18 12:24
Take a stand 362 Morten 16-Jun-18 13:30
Re: Take a piss or get off the pot.... 398 Scott Creighton 16-Jun-18 13:37
Re: Hieratic Numbers 376 Martin Stower 16-Jul-18 17:04
Re: Hieratic Numbers 395 R Avry Wilson 16-Jun-18 02:39
Re: Hieratic Numbers 404 Morten 16-Jun-18 00:56
Re: Hieratic Numbers 402 sfbey 16-Jun-18 01:02
Re: Hieratic Numbers 389 Manu 16-Jun-18 01:09
Re: Hieratic Numbers 440 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 01:15
Re: Hieratic Numbers 363 Morten 16-Jun-18 09:51
Re: Hieratic Numbers 379 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 10:42
Re: Hieratic Numbers 435 Morten 16-Jun-18 12:34
Re: Hieratic Number 10 vrs 1/2? 428 sfbey 15-Jun-18 19:14
Re: Hieratic Number 10 vrs 1/2? 409 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-18 19:38
Re: Hieratic Number 10 vrs 1/2? 409 sfbey 15-Jun-18 20:04
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 434 Corpuscles 16-Jun-18 02:02
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 433 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 10:12
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 407 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 21:24
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 380 Jon Ellison 16-Jun-18 23:06
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 405 Jon Ellison 16-Jun-18 23:24
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 390 Jon Ellison 17-Jun-18 00:11
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 375 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 09:07
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 380 Scott Creighton 17-Jun-18 09:19
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 412 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 09:44
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 413 Jon Ellison 17-Jun-18 10:02
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 400 Jon Ellison 17-Jun-18 10:43
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 397 Jon Ellison 17-Jun-18 11:01
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 375 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 11:09
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 391 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 11:05
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 412 Jon Ellison 17-Jun-18 11:30
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 404 Jon Ellison 17-Jun-18 11:40
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 409 Scott Creighton 17-Jun-18 14:28
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 406 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 17:20
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 425 Scott Creighton 17-Jun-18 17:29
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 436 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 19:16
Reflected Roof Plan 413 Dr. Troglodyte 17-Jun-18 20:44
Re: Reflected Roof Plan 396 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 21:09
Re: Reflected Roof Plan 395 Scott Creighton 17-Jun-18 21:13
Re: Reflected Roof Plan 475 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 22:03
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 449 Corpuscles 17-Jun-18 02:20
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 410 Jon Ellison 17-Jun-18 07:10
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 425 Corpuscles 18-Jun-18 02:51
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 400 Martin Stower 18-Jun-18 09:39
Re: Creighton article slips out unannounced 467 Martin Stower 17-Jun-18 08:47


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