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Hi Steve 'n all

Firstly, I agree that given the references made in the OP of this thread, your contribution is relevant. Albeit it obviously doesn't interest some members.

Secondly, I state again I think it is praiseworthy, that after having being challenged about your funicular concept and claims, that you have sought seemingly qualified 'expert" independent advice.

Thirdly, I acknowledge you do not wish to discuss or "squabble". This is meant to be constructive especially since at present Jon E is taking some interest, so perhaps some more hope of achieving confirmation.

However , I wonder whether you have understood the significant implications of the very basic level advice you have been provided so far? (Ie Before Fabio takes you and your discussions into far more complicated aspects)

Steve Clayton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Jon,
>
> The following was an opening question with the
> Engineer to see if he was capable of solving
> Incline Plain relationships. He passed.
>
> There ​are equations ​concerning only the
> causeway, and they are informative. I will post
> them as well asap.​ I will not be answering, and
> squabbling about any questions, as I need to
> construct a CAD drawing for a barge stress
> analysis. There will be plenty of time for that.
>
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your email.
>
> I’ve seen the exercise example you sent me,
> which is very straight forward.
>
> The double ramp equilibrium can be considered in
> two different configurations:
>
>
>
> 1.With Friction between the boxes and the ramp
>
> 2.Frictionless
>
>
>
> Of course the second option is just theoretical,
> due to the fact that it’s impossible to reach a
> frictionless condition unless using very high
> density lubricants, air cushion effects, magnetic
> fields etc…
>
> I’ve considered the first option only, due to
> the considerations I’ve done above with regards
> to the friction.
>
>
>
> Please find attached a simple powerpoint document
> with the solution you requested.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It could look very weird that a mass of only 60lbs
> could balance a mass of 100.000lbs, but the
> explanation is related to the fact that the
> friction component of the force generated by the
> mass A is more than an order magnitude higher than
> the weight component, therefore it takes only a
> small mass B to reach stable equilibrium.
>
> Please let me know if that makes sense to you.

>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Fabio
>


You might recall it was this comment that started the challenge?

Quote
Steve Clayton
There are numerous methods of lifting stones, without the need to lift water!

Here is an easy method, and there are several. If a rope(s) was attached to the back of a water filled funicular, and those rope(s) stretched ​up and over the Pyramid and down the backside, would the 70,000 lb weight on the 4.6 degree causeway, pull up a skid of stones on a 52 degree incline, weighing only 20,000 lbs.​ Yes?​
Here


It ought be clear to you from Fabio's advice and calculation that even 100,000 lbs (accepting the extraordinarily low CoF of 0.08) will not pull 62 lbs up a steep incline.

Therefore, a causeway funicular on a 4.6 degree slope offers no practical benefit to raising stones up the slope of a pyramid.

If that is not yet clear then a quick email question you can seek independent confirmation. Something like:

Q1. "Fabio, if I wished to haul a (one only ) stone of 2.5 tons (5,000 lbs) up a slope of circa 52degrees (or 53.17 degrees?) CoF 0.08 via a larger weight pulling down a causeway slope of 4.6 degrees, CoF 0.08 , (disregard ANY fulcrum friction) then how much weight do I need to place on the causeway?"

You are not interested in my answer but others might be? and not prepared to wait for your full expose

Equilibrium point (using 53.17 degrees for some reason) was determined as 60.682 lbs
The new load is 5000lb being 82.4 times the original equilibrium point balancing 100,000 lbs
Therefore causeway load needs to be greater than 8,240,000 lbs
Cubic ft of water weighs 62.43 lbs
So greater than 131,988 cubic feet of water on causeway to raise one stone very, very, very, slowly
That is a box eg 20ft high, by 20 ft wide, by 330 ft long!!!

Impossible and totally impractical.


>
>
> Ref:
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
>
>
> The linear force along the ramp changes for BOTH
> weights proportionally as you change the angle.
> This means that the ratio of the linear forces
> generate by each weight remains the same.
>
>
>
> Example:
>
> A 1 ton weight generates about 160 lb of linear
> force on a 4.6 degree ramp.
>
> A 0.25 ton weight generates about 40 lb of linear
> force on that 4.6 degree ramp.
>
> The ratio is 160/40 = 4, just as it is for the
> ratio of the gross weights.
>
>
>
> Meanwhiile,
>
> The same 1 ton weight generates about 347 lb on a
> 10 degree ramp.
>
> The same 0.25 ton weight generates about 87 lb on
> that 10 degree ramp.
>
> The ratio is 347/87 = 4, just as it was with the
> other angle.
>
>
>
> So changing the angle lessens the linear forces
> generated by BOTH weights proportionally.

Now we address the possibility of using a funicular to simply haul stones from the base of the causeway to the top of causeway.

The relevant ratio is the weight to the force generated rather than variation of the angle of incline (irrelevant?)

Q2. "Fabio, if I wanted to haul a (just one only) stone of 2.5 tons (5,000 lbs) up an incline of 4.6 degrees (CoF 0.08) via a pulling weight travelling down a 4.6 degree incline (CoF 0.08), but again disregarding fulcrum friction. Then how much weight must be placed on the down slope?"

Once you get that answer and consider the implications then you will probably (or ought) abandon the entire concept, before having Fabio explore the more complicated issues?

Cheers

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Subject Views Written By Posted
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Re: Causeways And The Sun 506 kborissov 14-May-18 15:44
Re: Causeways And The Sun 512 Barbelo 14-May-18 21:25
Re: Causeways And The Moon 620 Barbelo 15-May-18 23:01
The Causeway of Unas 440 Barbelo 16-May-18 22:00
Re: Causeways And The Sun 402 Spiros 17-May-18 00:12
Re: Causeways And The Sun 413 Barbelo 17-May-18 01:35
Re: Causeways And The Sun 409 Spiros 17-May-18 01:46
Re: Causeways And The Sun 423 Barbelo 17-May-18 02:45
Re: Causeways And The Sun 409 Spiros 18-May-18 21:54
Re: Causeways And The Sun 333 Barbelo 18-May-18 22:31
Re: Causeways And The Sun 342 Spiros 19-May-18 11:54
Red Pyramid Causeway? 477 Barbelo 17-May-18 20:21
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 479 Thanos5150 18-May-18 04:20
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 374 Barbelo 18-May-18 05:00
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 404 Thanos5150 18-May-18 16:28
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 397 Barbelo 18-May-18 22:05
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 343 Thanos5150 18-May-18 22:49
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 391 Manu 18-May-18 05:31
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 378 Thanos5150 19-May-18 00:00
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 349 Manu 19-May-18 01:16
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 309 Thanos5150 19-May-18 02:08
Hor Us and Hat Hor 376 Barbelo 19-May-18 03:01
Re: Red Pyramid Causeway? 346 Thanos5150 19-May-18 14:46
Re: Giza - Ancient Prime Meridian 383 Thunderbird 18-May-18 17:59
Re: Giza - Ancient Prime Meridian 318 Barbelo 18-May-18 22:48
Step Pyramid Causeway? 880 Barbelo 18-May-18 22:29
Re: Step Pyramid Causeway? 342 Thanos5150 19-May-18 14:06
Re: Step Pyramid Causeway? 326 Barbelo 19-May-18 21:30
Khafre Causeway 384 Barbelo 19-May-18 22:05
Re: Khafre Causeway 355 Thanos5150 20-May-18 00:53
Re: Khafre Causeway 644 Barbelo 20-May-18 04:23
Re: Khafre Causeway 352 Thanos5150 20-May-18 17:27
Re: Khafre Causeway 382 Barbelo 20-May-18 21:50
Re: Khafre Causeway 395 Thanos5150 21-May-18 01:00
Re: Khafre Causeway 322 Barbelo 21-May-18 02:07
Re: Khafre Causeway 382 Thanos5150 21-May-18 04:17
Re: Khafre Causeway 329 Barbelo 21-May-18 21:12
Re: Khafre Causeway 339 Thanos5150 22-May-18 15:15
Unanswered Questions 309 Barbelo 22-May-18 22:06
Khufu Causeway 707 Barbelo 20-May-18 22:37
Re: Khufu Causeway 370 Thanos5150 21-May-18 04:08
Re: Khufu Causeway 352 Barbelo 22-May-18 04:08
Re: Khufu Causeway 393 DUNE 22-May-18 07:22
Re: Khufu Causeway 551 Thanos5150 22-May-18 14:38
Khufu'S Valley Temple 392 Barbelo 22-May-18 21:22
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 489 Thanos5150 23-May-18 02:45
Re: Khufu's Valley Temple 408 Barbelo 23-May-18 23:20
Re: Khufu's Valley Temple 527 Thanos5150 24-May-18 01:11
Re: Khufu's Valley Temple 387 Barbelo 24-May-18 04:11
Re: Khufu's Valley Temple 411 R Avry Wilson 26-May-18 00:41
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 411 Thanos5150 28-May-18 04:06
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 411 Origyptian 28-May-18 12:10
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 428 Thanos5150 29-May-18 03:54
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 348 Barbelo 29-May-18 06:20
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 359 Thanos5150 29-May-18 21:30
Wall of the Crow 374 Barbelo 29-May-18 22:12
Re: Wall of the Crow 380 Thanos5150 29-May-18 23:31
Re: Wall of the Crow 341 Barbelo 30-May-18 06:10
Re: LOL!.....No copper sheet/water Causeway at Coral Castle : ) 348 Thunderbird 30-May-18 17:41
Re: Wall of the Crow 521 Thanos5150 31-May-18 01:05
Re: Wall of the Crow 425 Barbelo 01-Jun-18 06:58
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 344 Corpuscles 29-May-18 22:30
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 330 Thanos5150 29-May-18 23:56
Re: Khufu'S Valley Temple 376 Romulus the 2nd 04-Jun-18 11:53
Re: Khufu Causeway 271 Barbelo 22-May-18 21:29
Re: Khufu Causeway 371 Thanos5150 22-May-18 15:22
Re: Khufu Causeway 322 Manu 25-Sep-18 12:43
Re: Khufu Causeway 273 cladking 25-Sep-18 13:30
Re: Khufu Causeway 274 DUNE 25-Sep-18 14:30
Re: Khufu Causeway 283 Spiros 25-Sep-18 14:48
Re: Khufu Causeway 282 Manu 25-Sep-18 15:39
Re: Khufu Causeway 358 DUNE 25-Sep-18 17:07
Re: Khufu Causeway 323 DUNE 25-Sep-18 17:31
Re: Khufu Causeway 282 DUNE 25-Sep-18 19:13
Re: Khufu Causeway 280 cladking 25-Sep-18 19:52
Re: Khufu Causeway 330 DUNE 25-Sep-18 20:22
Re: Khufu Causeway 272 cladking 26-Sep-18 19:23
Re: Khufu Causeway 306 Thanos5150 26-Sep-18 03:02
Practical applications 332 Audrey 27-Sep-18 00:12
Re: Practical applications 338 Thanos5150 27-Sep-18 06:14
Re: Practical applications 375 DUNE 27-Sep-18 08:58
Re: Practical applications 340 cladking 27-Sep-18 13:48
Re: Practical applications 321 Audrey 28-Sep-18 02:46
Re: Practical applications 295 cladking 28-Sep-18 13:07
Re: Practical applications 341 Thanos5150 27-Sep-18 15:51
Re: Practical applications 324 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-18 16:36
Re: Practical applications 261 cladking 27-Sep-18 16:51
Re: Practical applications 290 cladking 27-Sep-18 17:13
Re: Practical applications 271 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-18 20:08
Re: Practical applications 265 Thunderbird 27-Sep-18 21:54
Re: Practical applications 282 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-18 22:07
Re: Practical applications 278 cladking 28-Sep-18 13:17
Re: Practical applications 286 Eddie Larry 28-Sep-18 13:52
Re: Practical applications (and infrastructure) 263 cladking 28-Sep-18 14:08
Re: Practical applications (and infrastructure) 274 Eddie Larry 28-Sep-18 15:20
Re: Practical applications (and infrastructure) 268 cladking 28-Sep-18 15:40
Re: Practical applications (and infrastructure) 261 Eddie Larry 28-Sep-18 18:00
Re: Practical applications (and infrastructure) 269 cladking 28-Sep-18 18:38
Re: Practical applications (and infrastructure) 324 cladking 30-Sep-18 23:41
Re: Practical applications (and infrastructure) 330 Eddie Larry 01-Oct-18 01:51
Re: Practical applications (and infrastructure) 263 cladking 01-Oct-18 02:50
Re: Practical applications 344 Audrey 28-Sep-18 02:25
The First Question 283 Barbelo 25-Sep-18 22:29
Re: The First Question 263 Manu 26-Sep-18 01:28
Re: The First Question 275 Barbelo 26-Sep-18 04:45
Re: The First Question 307 Manu 26-Sep-18 06:31
Re: The First Question 307 Thanos5150 26-Sep-18 16:17
Re: The First Question 290 Barbelo 26-Sep-18 21:48
Re: The First Question 253 Manu 27-Sep-18 03:23
Re: The First Question 273 cladking 27-Sep-18 04:22
Re: The First Question 289 Sirfiroth 27-Sep-18 17:23
"Original" Causeway 344 Barbelo 28-Sep-18 05:51
Re: A Change of Plan, The Trial Passage & That Platform 303 DUNE 28-Sep-18 10:22
Re: A Change of Plan, The Trial Passage & That Platform 356 Barbelo 28-Sep-18 11:48
Re: A Change of Plan, The Trial Passage & That Platform 269 DUNE 28-Sep-18 13:02
Re: A Change of Plan, The Trial Passage & That Platform 319 Barbelo 28-Sep-18 20:32
Re: A Change of Plan, The Trial Passage & That Platform 273 DUNE 28-Sep-18 21:13
Re: A Change of Plan, The Trial Passage & That Platform 286 Barbelo 28-Sep-18 22:34
Re: A Change of Plan, The Trial Passage & That Platform 263 Thanos5150 28-Sep-18 16:25
Re: "Original" Causeway 284 Spiros 28-Sep-18 13:14
Re: The First Question 313 Corpuscles 26-Sep-18 06:41
Re: The First Question 283 DUNE 26-Sep-18 09:16
Re: The First Question 281 Barbelo 26-Sep-18 11:20
Re: The First Question 281 Barbelo 26-Sep-18 11:30
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Re: Khafre M.T. floor versus Khufu 266 Barbelo 27-Sep-18 06:04
Hetepheres I Boat Pit 297 Barbelo 28-Sep-18 05:13
Re: The First Question 280 Thanos5150 26-Sep-18 01:35
14 Degrees [?] 358 Dr. Troglodyte 22-May-18 14:34
Re: 14 Degrees [?] 363 Barbelo 22-May-18 21:42
Re: 14 Degrees [?] 336 Spiros 23-May-18 11:50
Giza’s Causeways – Proof of Concept Solar Study [Update: 4MAR19] 528 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-18 16:48
Re: Giza’s Causeways – Proof of Concept Solar Study 371 Spiros 23-May-18 17:49
Re: Giza’s Causeways – Proof of Concept Solar Study 331 Spiros 26-May-18 17:47
what if.. 350 Spiros 27-May-18 02:45
Re: what if.. 303 DUNE 27-May-18 08:32
Re: what if.. 311 Spiros 28-May-18 21:57
Re: Giza’s Causeways – Proof of Concept Solar Study 406 Thanos5150 23-May-18 20:51
Re: Giza’s Causeways – Proof of Concept Solar Study 368 molder 26-May-18 06:31
Khufu’s Causeway - Update 462 Dr. Troglodyte 01-Jun-18 19:48
Re: Khufu’s Causeway - Update 326 Barbelo 02-Jun-18 03:42
Re, the Sun & causeways 210 hendrik dirker 07-Jul-19 05:57
Re: Khufu’s Causeway - Update 189 Spiros 10-Sep-19 13:34
Re: Causeways And The Sun 345 Origyptian 26-May-18 02:47
Re: Causeways And The Sun 431 Barbelo 26-May-18 05:41
Re: Causeways And The Sun 384 Origyptian 26-May-18 11:31
Re: Causeways And The Sun 382 cladking 26-May-18 13:55
Re: Causeways And The Sun 320 Barbelo 26-May-18 20:20
Re: Causeways And The Sun 341 Origyptian 27-May-18 02:37
Re: Causeways And The Sun 349 Barbelo 27-May-18 03:59
Re: Causeways And The Sun 338 Jon Ellison 27-May-18 09:01
Re: Causeways And The Sun 309 Barbelo 27-May-18 11:31
Re: Causeways And The Sun 311 Jon Ellison 27-May-18 11:52
Re: Causeways And The Sun 321 Sirfiroth 27-May-18 13:13
Re: Causeways And The Sun 330 Origyptian 27-May-18 13:32
Re: Causeways And The Sun 331 cladking 27-May-18 13:37
Re: Causeways And The Sun 313 Sirfiroth 28-May-18 01:23
Re: Causeways And The Sun 331 cladking 28-May-18 02:06
Re: Causeways And The Sun 348 Jon Ellison 27-May-18 22:58
Re: Causeways And The Sun 300 Sirfiroth 28-May-18 01:44
Re: Causeways And The Sun 317 Steve Clayton 28-May-18 03:29
Re: Causeways And The Sun 383 Jon Ellison 28-May-18 08:33
Re: Causeways And The Sun 373 Steve Clayton 28-May-18 14:45
Re: Causeways And The Sun 338 Jon Ellison 28-May-18 15:37
Re: Causeways And The Sun 333 Steve Clayton 28-May-18 15:42
Re: Causeways And The Sun 355 Steve Clayton 28-May-18 16:21
Re: Causeways And The Sun 297 Origyptian 29-May-18 13:10
Re: Causeways And The Sun 312 Steve Clayton 29-May-18 15:08
Re: Causeways And The Sun 342 Origyptian 29-May-18 16:18
Re: Causeways And The Sun 329 Sirfiroth 28-May-18 16:38
Re: Causeways And The Sun 317 Steve Clayton 28-May-18 17:08
Re: Causeways And The Sun 321 Sirfiroth 28-May-18 21:01
Re: Causeways And The Sun 321 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 21:11
Re: Causeways And The Sun 304 Steve Clayton 28-May-18 21:38
Re: Causeways And The Sun 310 Sirfiroth 29-May-18 02:07
Re: Causeways And The Sun 306 Eddie Larry 29-May-18 02:38
Re: Causeways And The Sun 309 Sirfiroth 29-May-18 02:36
Re: Causeways And The Sun 317 Jon Ellison 28-May-18 21:37
Re: Causeways And The Sun 310 Steve Clayton 28-May-18 22:29
Re: Causeways And The Sun 294 Steve Clayton 28-May-18 23:09
Re: Causeways And The Sun 351 Jon Ellison 28-May-18 23:58
Re: Causeways And The Sun 312 Sirfiroth 29-May-18 02:23
Re: Causeways And The Sun 353 Eddie Larry 29-May-18 04:07
Re: Causeways And The Sun 299 Origyptian 29-May-18 13:56
Re: Causeways And The Sun 343 Corpuscles 29-May-18 00:51
A Further Degree Of Difficulty 331 Barbelo 29-May-18 02:02
Re: Causeways or Sand? 357 Steve Clayton 29-May-18 04:56
Re: Causeways or Sand? 374 Corpuscles 29-May-18 07:31
Re: Causeways or Sand? 353 Jon Ellison 29-May-18 09:05
Re: Causeways or Sand? 376 Steve Clayton 30-May-18 19:47
Re: Causeways or Sand? 394 Steve Clayton 03-Jun-18 01:06
Re: Causeways or Sand? 334 Origyptian 29-May-18 15:44
Re: Causeways or Sand? 345 Corpuscles 29-May-18 23:31
Re: Causeways or Sand? 352 Steve Clayton 29-May-18 23:59
Re: Causeways or Sand? 325 Corpuscles 30-May-18 03:08
Re: Causeways or Sand? 355 Steve Clayton 30-May-18 04:33
Re: Causeways And The Sun 377 Origyptian 27-May-18 11:58
Re: Causeways And The Sun 329 Barbelo 27-May-18 20:33
Re: Causeways And The Sun 332 Origyptian 28-May-18 01:27
Causeways And Geysers 321 Barbelo 28-May-18 03:09
Divide and Conquer 327 cladking 28-May-18 03:38
Re: Divide and Conquer 302 Origyptian 28-May-18 04:58
Re: Causeways And Geysers 323 Origyptian 28-May-18 04:26
Re: Causeways And Geysers 324 Barbelo 28-May-18 05:38
Re: Causeways And The Sun 302 Origyptian 27-May-18 11:54
Re: Causeways And The Sun 344 Barbelo 27-May-18 21:29
Re: Causeways And The Sun 354 cladking 27-May-18 23:52
Re: Causeways And The Sun 345 Barbelo 27-May-18 23:59
Re: Causeways And The Sun 315 cladking 28-May-18 02:14
Re: Causeways And The Sun 322 Barbelo 28-May-18 03:16
Re: Causeways And The Sun 280 cladking 28-May-18 03:36
Re: Causeways And The Sun 312 Corpuscles 28-May-18 00:35
Re: Causeways And The Sun 299 cladking 28-May-18 02:28
Re: Causeways And The Sun 334 Origyptian 28-May-18 02:15
Re: Causeways And The Sun 375 DUNE 26-May-18 19:33
Re: Causeways And The Sun 332 Sirfiroth 26-May-18 22:05
Pyramids as Gnomons 382 Eddie Larry 26-May-18 20:28
Re: Causeways And The Sun 567 Corpuscles 27-May-18 22:36
Re: Causeways And The Sun 398 Barbelo 28-May-18 00:45
Re: Causeways And The Sun 321 Corpuscles 28-May-18 01:26
Re: Causeways And The Sun 361 Barbelo 28-May-18 03:54
Re: Causeways And The Sun 325 Origyptian 28-May-18 02:31
Re: Causeways And The Sun 304 Barbelo 28-May-18 04:01
Re: Causeways And The Sun 326 Origyptian 28-May-18 05:02
Re: Causeways And The Sun 353 Barbelo 28-May-18 05:56
Re: Causeways And The Sun 323 Origyptian 28-May-18 11:39
Re: Causeways And The Sun 317 cladking 28-May-18 13:52
Re: Causeways And The Sun 322 kborissov 29-May-18 01:45
Re: Causeways And The Sun 307 cladking 29-May-18 13:14
Re: Causeways And The Sun 318 kborissov 30-May-18 02:14
Re: Causeways And The Sun 268 cladking 30-May-18 03:30
Re: Causeways And The Sun 348 Origyptian 29-May-18 14:10
Re: Causeways And The Sun 323 kborissov 29-May-18 21:58
Re: Causeways And The Sun 322 Origyptian 29-May-18 22:02
Re: Causeways And The Sun 348 kborissov 29-May-18 22:26
Re: Causeways And The Sun 348 cladking 01-Oct-18 03:27
Re: Causeways And The Sun 298 Corpuscles 01-Oct-18 05:04
Re: Causeways And The Sun 328 Barbelo 01-Oct-18 06:44
Re: Causeways And The Sun 263 cladking 01-Oct-18 13:07
Re: Causeways And The Sun 429 cladking 01-Oct-18 13:59
Re: Causeways And The Sun 366 Steve Clayton 31-May-18 18:10
Re: Causeways And The Sun 299 Barbelo 31-May-18 22:17
Re: Causeways And The Sun 334 Steve Clayton 01-Jun-18 01:11
Re: Causeways And The Sun 335 Barbelo 01-Jun-18 03:50
Re: Causeways And The Sun 346 Steve Clayton 01-Jun-18 15:43
Re: Causeways And The Sun 284 Barbelo 01-Jun-18 20:08
Re: Causeways And The Sun 368 Steve Clayton 01-Jun-18 20:55
Re: Causeways And The Sun 360 Barbelo 01-Jun-18 22:47
Re: Causeways And The Sun 356 Steve Clayton 01-Jun-18 23:10


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