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Few spontaneous observations in support, all of which subject to target practice:

1) A good parallel development is the Temple of Jupiter in Damascus also built over a previous shrine dedicated to a storm god.

2) The Epic of Gilgamesh, invented or not correctly translated or not, sounds like a walk down the ecliptic. G and E theme = Gemini. Humwawa theme = Taurus, Ut-Napishtim theme = Aquarius. Lion theme - Leo. The number seven specifically (as in seven spendors, seven mountains, etc, is the Pleiades theme. You're gonna laugh, but even Snowwhite and the Seven Dwarves (behind the seven mountain ranges) has an astronomic theme, intended or not: The change of the seasons from winter to spring and the harvest when the Pleiades rise and harvest time comes. Looking at the topographic map, there are at least five elevation ranges from the planes of Mesopotamia towards the Anti-Lebanon Range. I saw one version of the saga which mentions seven mountains, can't remember if that was from the Sumerian version of not.
My Impression is that myths do not easily stand on their own feet in terms of analysis, but they can help support a leg from another discipline. I would not summarily dismiss all legends as fiction and so I have no problem that you are recruiting this story given other evidence with which it is consistent.

Whatever Shulgi and his circle had in mind, I am tempted to think that astronomy mattered to the main story thread in both the translations and the originals even if vocabulary changed, but this is just a hunch and I defer to those who have looked at the texts.

3) Giulo Magli ("ARCHAEOASTRONOMY AND THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE TEMPLE OF JUPITER AT BAALBEK
") used Archeoastronomy to date Baalbek. The long axis points to May First's sunrise which at the latitude of Baalbek is the time of the helical rising of the Pleiades, the "ear of Taurus" so to speak. This was the time of harvest. If this is correct, the temple was a fancy star clock to mark a date of agricultural importance and to appease the storm god who might wreak havoc with the crops.


4) What I found curious is that Baalbek, supposedly a complex dedicated to the sun, is not pointing due east. It points to 75°30' while the temple in Damascus points to ~85° ( I got 84.70°).... The Zeus temple in Kanawat point close to north. None of these really make sense in terms of Roman mythology or the Julian calendar. I can sort of see how Baalbek might be pointing to the sunrise on Easter, but I don't think that even the earliest Christians would have had input into the original foundation's lay-out and in any case, the foundation as per your citations are much much older.

So the orientations of all these temples, if they originally were inspired by the sky, suggest an older, non-Roman origin.

5) At Kharga's Temple of Hibis, Five Hymns to Amun have a few telling lines which may apply here (ie Humwawa, Pleiades, alignment). Let me just quote a relevant segment from "Adoration of the Ram" by David Klotz":
Quote
Mysterious Ba, ram-headed with four faces on one neck, with 777 ears, with millions upon millions of eyes, with myriads of horns."
.

If this is a description of a constellation, then Taurus is one candidate with the Pleiades fittingly representing an ear made up of seven stars [of which they imagined 777?]

6) As to 3500 B.C. Assuming there is something to the alignment to the Pleiades:

Magli is dating the alignment to Herod but I am not so sure. I tried +100/-1500/-2500/-3500 (which is 100 AD/1501/2501/3501 B.C) which moves the Julian date of a 75°30' sunrise from April 22 to May 17, while the Pleiades becomes clearly visible only for the last two dates, but this is a simulation of course. I think the best thing to do is to actually observe from Baalbek when the Pleiades would have appeared over the Anti-Lebanon Mountain range around the April to May time frame and then determine the date on which the sun rises such that its rays hit the temple axis in parallel. Then go back to the computer and use those altitude data to reconstruct a possible era of when the long axis of this complex was established, which of course says nothing about when people settled there first to live.

7) The Eruk Temple in Nippur. Once repaired by Isme-Dagan and made to smell like "Cedar". This temple also Enlil's house like the far away place of the Cedar Mountain in the story. I took a rough heading of the temple's long axis (of course this is not the original temple) and got 55° azimuth. Can't explain that yet, but it's not pointing due east either.

8) Enlil, my understanding means Lord Storm. As to the origin of the name Baalbek I found this:
Richard C. Steiner
Especially Toponym I sounds like a possible connection. El (mbk nrhm), Haddad, and Enlil all taurine deities? Is that the link?


I'm just tossing things out which came to mind Thanos. There may only be few useful items in this list. My initial impression is that your are right: Baalbek's foundational lay-out is older than Augustus.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 19:10 by Manu.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 1669 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 265 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 213 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 175 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 169 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 160 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 179 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 147 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 171 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 162 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 150 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 166 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 146 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 165 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 144 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 149 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 184 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 147 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 213 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 174 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 196 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 180 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 205 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 160 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 180 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 182 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 174 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 165 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 160 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 170 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 158 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 173 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 183 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 200 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 169 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 159 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 119 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 145 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 150 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 145 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 134 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 144 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 163 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 132 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 164 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 125 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 164 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 129 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 175 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 157 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 163 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 150 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 158 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 136 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 142 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 153 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 142 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 142 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 152 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 138 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 229 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 156 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 152 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 164 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 185 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 167 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 146 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 161 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 158 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 125 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 176 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 120 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 173 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 147 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 164 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 150 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 142 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 134 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 150 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 148 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 155 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 133 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 142 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 133 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 145 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 132 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 156 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 139 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 152 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 149 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 136 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 151 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 194 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 193 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 166 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 156 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 153 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 135 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 149 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 153 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 186 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 155 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 159 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 148 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 183 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 151 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 195 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 190 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 179 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 218 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 176 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 145 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 165 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 149 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 161 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 160 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26


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