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Few spontaneous observations in support, all of which subject to target practice:

1) A good parallel development is the Temple of Jupiter in Damascus also built over a previous shrine dedicated to a storm god.

2) The Epic of Gilgamesh, invented or not correctly translated or not, sounds like a walk down the ecliptic. G and E theme = Gemini. Humwawa theme = Taurus, Ut-Napishtim theme = Aquarius. Lion theme - Leo. The number seven specifically (as in seven spendors, seven mountains, etc, is the Pleiades theme. You're gonna laugh, but even Snowwhite and the Seven Dwarves (behind the seven mountain ranges) has an astronomic theme, intended or not: The change of the seasons from winter to spring and the harvest when the Pleiades rise and harvest time comes. Looking at the topographic map, there are at least five elevation ranges from the planes of Mesopotamia towards the Anti-Lebanon Range. I saw one version of the saga which mentions seven mountains, can't remember if that was from the Sumerian version of not.
My Impression is that myths do not easily stand on their own feet in terms of analysis, but they can help support a leg from another discipline. I would not summarily dismiss all legends as fiction and so I have no problem that you are recruiting this story given other evidence with which it is consistent.

Whatever Shulgi and his circle had in mind, I am tempted to think that astronomy mattered to the main story thread in both the translations and the originals even if vocabulary changed, but this is just a hunch and I defer to those who have looked at the texts.

3) Giulo Magli ("ARCHAEOASTRONOMY AND THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE TEMPLE OF JUPITER AT BAALBEK
") used Archeoastronomy to date Baalbek. The long axis points to May First's sunrise which at the latitude of Baalbek is the time of the helical rising of the Pleiades, the "ear of Taurus" so to speak. This was the time of harvest. If this is correct, the temple was a fancy star clock to mark a date of agricultural importance and to appease the storm god who might wreak havoc with the crops.


4) What I found curious is that Baalbek, supposedly a complex dedicated to the sun, is not pointing due east. It points to 75°30' while the temple in Damascus points to ~85° ( I got 84.70°).... The Zeus temple in Kanawat point close to north. None of these really make sense in terms of Roman mythology or the Julian calendar. I can sort of see how Baalbek might be pointing to the sunrise on Easter, but I don't think that even the earliest Christians would have had input into the original foundation's lay-out and in any case, the foundation as per your citations are much much older.

So the orientations of all these temples, if they originally were inspired by the sky, suggest an older, non-Roman origin.

5) At Kharga's Temple of Hibis, Five Hymns to Amun have a few telling lines which may apply here (ie Humwawa, Pleiades, alignment). Let me just quote a relevant segment from "Adoration of the Ram" by David Klotz":
Quote
Mysterious Ba, ram-headed with four faces on one neck, with 777 ears, with millions upon millions of eyes, with myriads of horns."
.

If this is a description of a constellation, then Taurus is one candidate with the Pleiades fittingly representing an ear made up of seven stars [of which they imagined 777?]

6) As to 3500 B.C. Assuming there is something to the alignment to the Pleiades:

Magli is dating the alignment to Herod but I am not so sure. I tried +100/-1500/-2500/-3500 (which is 100 AD/1501/2501/3501 B.C) which moves the Julian date of a 75°30' sunrise from April 22 to May 17, while the Pleiades becomes clearly visible only for the last two dates, but this is a simulation of course. I think the best thing to do is to actually observe from Baalbek when the Pleiades would have appeared over the Anti-Lebanon Mountain range around the April to May time frame and then determine the date on which the sun rises such that its rays hit the temple axis in parallel. Then go back to the computer and use those altitude data to reconstruct a possible era of when the long axis of this complex was established, which of course says nothing about when people settled there first to live.

7) The Eruk Temple in Nippur. Once repaired by Isme-Dagan and made to smell like "Cedar". This temple also Enlil's house like the far away place of the Cedar Mountain in the story. I took a rough heading of the temple's long axis (of course this is not the original temple) and got 55° azimuth. Can't explain that yet, but it's not pointing due east either.

8) Enlil, my understanding means Lord Storm. As to the origin of the name Baalbek I found this:
Richard C. Steiner
Especially Toponym I sounds like a possible connection. El (mbk nrhm), Haddad, and Enlil all taurine deities? Is that the link?


I'm just tossing things out which came to mind Thanos. There may only be few useful items in this list. My initial impression is that your are right: Baalbek's foundational lay-out is older than Augustus.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 19:10 by Manu.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 1797 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 293 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 232 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 223 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 198 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 196 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 182 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 167 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 201 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 182 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 169 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 185 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 167 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 186 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 164 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 176 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 209 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 171 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 237 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 194 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 215 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 197 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 223 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 183 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 196 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 204 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 196 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 183 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 183 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 200 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 177 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 194 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 200 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 225 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 187 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 179 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 135 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 167 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 172 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 165 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 159 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 164 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 179 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 159 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 188 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 144 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 195 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 145 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 203 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 183 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 192 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 168 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 183 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 159 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 161 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 172 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 162 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 165 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 179 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 156 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 257 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 177 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 173 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 184 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 189 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 165 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 183 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 180 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 144 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 196 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 135 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 194 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 168 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 180 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 170 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 164 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 153 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 170 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 173 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 174 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 156 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 167 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 158 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 164 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 155 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 179 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 158 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 176 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 173 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 159 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 166 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 214 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 219 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 188 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 182 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 171 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 161 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 170 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 174 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 216 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 172 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 181 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 166 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 203 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 173 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 219 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 226 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 244 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 167 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 180 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 169 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 181 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 180 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26


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