Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Few spontaneous observations in support, all of which subject to target practice:

1) A good parallel development is the Temple of Jupiter in Damascus also built over a previous shrine dedicated to a storm god.

2) The Epic of Gilgamesh, invented or not correctly translated or not, sounds like a walk down the ecliptic. G and E theme = Gemini. Humwawa theme = Taurus, Ut-Napishtim theme = Aquarius. Lion theme - Leo. The number seven specifically (as in seven spendors, seven mountains, etc, is the Pleiades theme. You're gonna laugh, but even Snowwhite and the Seven Dwarves (behind the seven mountain ranges) has an astronomic theme, intended or not: The change of the seasons from winter to spring and the harvest when the Pleiades rise and harvest time comes. Looking at the topographic map, there are at least five elevation ranges from the planes of Mesopotamia towards the Anti-Lebanon Range. I saw one version of the saga which mentions seven mountains, can't remember if that was from the Sumerian version of not.
My Impression is that myths do not easily stand on their own feet in terms of analysis, but they can help support a leg from another discipline. I would not summarily dismiss all legends as fiction and so I have no problem that you are recruiting this story given other evidence with which it is consistent.

Whatever Shulgi and his circle had in mind, I am tempted to think that astronomy mattered to the main story thread in both the translations and the originals even if vocabulary changed, but this is just a hunch and I defer to those who have looked at the texts.

3) Giulo Magli ("ARCHAEOASTRONOMY AND THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE TEMPLE OF JUPITER AT BAALBEK
") used Archeoastronomy to date Baalbek. The long axis points to May First's sunrise which at the latitude of Baalbek is the time of the helical rising of the Pleiades, the "ear of Taurus" so to speak. This was the time of harvest. If this is correct, the temple was a fancy star clock to mark a date of agricultural importance and to appease the storm god who might wreak havoc with the crops.


4) What I found curious is that Baalbek, supposedly a complex dedicated to the sun, is not pointing due east. It points to 75°30' while the temple in Damascus points to ~85° ( I got 84.70°).... The Zeus temple in Kanawat point close to north. None of these really make sense in terms of Roman mythology or the Julian calendar. I can sort of see how Baalbek might be pointing to the sunrise on Easter, but I don't think that even the earliest Christians would have had input into the original foundation's lay-out and in any case, the foundation as per your citations are much much older.

So the orientations of all these temples, if they originally were inspired by the sky, suggest an older, non-Roman origin.

5) At Kharga's Temple of Hibis, Five Hymns to Amun have a few telling lines which may apply here (ie Humwawa, Pleiades, alignment). Let me just quote a relevant segment from "Adoration of the Ram" by David Klotz":
Quote
Mysterious Ba, ram-headed with four faces on one neck, with 777 ears, with millions upon millions of eyes, with myriads of horns."
.

If this is a description of a constellation, then Taurus is one candidate with the Pleiades fittingly representing an ear made up of seven stars [of which they imagined 777?]

6) As to 3500 B.C. Assuming there is something to the alignment to the Pleiades:

Magli is dating the alignment to Herod but I am not so sure. I tried +100/-1500/-2500/-3500 (which is 100 AD/1501/2501/3501 B.C) which moves the Julian date of a 75°30' sunrise from April 22 to May 17, while the Pleiades becomes clearly visible only for the last two dates, but this is a simulation of course. I think the best thing to do is to actually observe from Baalbek when the Pleiades would have appeared over the Anti-Lebanon Mountain range around the April to May time frame and then determine the date on which the sun rises such that its rays hit the temple axis in parallel. Then go back to the computer and use those altitude data to reconstruct a possible era of when the long axis of this complex was established, which of course says nothing about when people settled there first to live.

7) The Eruk Temple in Nippur. Once repaired by Isme-Dagan and made to smell like "Cedar". This temple also Enlil's house like the far away place of the Cedar Mountain in the story. I took a rough heading of the temple's long axis (of course this is not the original temple) and got 55° azimuth. Can't explain that yet, but it's not pointing due east either.

8) Enlil, my understanding means Lord Storm. As to the origin of the name Baalbek I found this:
Richard C. Steiner
Especially Toponym I sounds like a possible connection. El (mbk nrhm), Haddad, and Enlil all taurine deities? Is that the link?


I'm just tossing things out which came to mind Thanos. There may only be few useful items in this list. My initial impression is that your are right: Baalbek's foundational lay-out is older than Augustus.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 19:10 by Manu.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 3602 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 558 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 487 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 462 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 441 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 422 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 398 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 416 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 404 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 424 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 424 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 405 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 389 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 399 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 406 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 400 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 391 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 412 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 391 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 492 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 414 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 454 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 434 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 467 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 410 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 455 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 424 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 414 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 532 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 448 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 407 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 387 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 417 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 421 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 465 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 420 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 401 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 340 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 367 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 399 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 363 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 370 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 370 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 401 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 398 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 434 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 379 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 422 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 392 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 427 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 407 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 425 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 368 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 441 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 358 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 426 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 380 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 389 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 371 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 394 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 394 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 502 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 413 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 370 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 397 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 393 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 427 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 374 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 402 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 403 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 354 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 427 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 320 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 438 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 392 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 382 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 398 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 392 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 354 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 368 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 394 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 378 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 405 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 393 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 342 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 383 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 390 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 421 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 376 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 374 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 430 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 379 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 384 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 432 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 423 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 384 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 407 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 384 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 365 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 424 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 392 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 415 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 397 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 386 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 423 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 427 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 385 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 451 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 430 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 414 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 443 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 434 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 407 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 402 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 400 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 401 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 387 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 231 Thanos5150 14-Sep-19 15:17
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 234 Eddie Larry 14-Sep-19 15:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 304 engbren 17-Sep-19 03:13


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.