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Few spontaneous observations in support, all of which subject to target practice:

1) A good parallel development is the Temple of Jupiter in Damascus also built over a previous shrine dedicated to a storm god.

2) The Epic of Gilgamesh, invented or not correctly translated or not, sounds like a walk down the ecliptic. G and E theme = Gemini. Humwawa theme = Taurus, Ut-Napishtim theme = Aquarius. Lion theme - Leo. The number seven specifically (as in seven spendors, seven mountains, etc, is the Pleiades theme. You're gonna laugh, but even Snowwhite and the Seven Dwarves (behind the seven mountain ranges) has an astronomic theme, intended or not: The change of the seasons from winter to spring and the harvest when the Pleiades rise and harvest time comes. Looking at the topographic map, there are at least five elevation ranges from the planes of Mesopotamia towards the Anti-Lebanon Range. I saw one version of the saga which mentions seven mountains, can't remember if that was from the Sumerian version of not.
My Impression is that myths do not easily stand on their own feet in terms of analysis, but they can help support a leg from another discipline. I would not summarily dismiss all legends as fiction and so I have no problem that you are recruiting this story given other evidence with which it is consistent.

Whatever Shulgi and his circle had in mind, I am tempted to think that astronomy mattered to the main story thread in both the translations and the originals even if vocabulary changed, but this is just a hunch and I defer to those who have looked at the texts.

3) Giulo Magli ("ARCHAEOASTRONOMY AND THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE TEMPLE OF JUPITER AT BAALBEK
") used Archeoastronomy to date Baalbek. The long axis points to May First's sunrise which at the latitude of Baalbek is the time of the helical rising of the Pleiades, the "ear of Taurus" so to speak. This was the time of harvest. If this is correct, the temple was a fancy star clock to mark a date of agricultural importance and to appease the storm god who might wreak havoc with the crops.


4) What I found curious is that Baalbek, supposedly a complex dedicated to the sun, is not pointing due east. It points to 75°30' while the temple in Damascus points to ~85° ( I got 84.70°).... The Zeus temple in Kanawat point close to north. None of these really make sense in terms of Roman mythology or the Julian calendar. I can sort of see how Baalbek might be pointing to the sunrise on Easter, but I don't think that even the earliest Christians would have had input into the original foundation's lay-out and in any case, the foundation as per your citations are much much older.

So the orientations of all these temples, if they originally were inspired by the sky, suggest an older, non-Roman origin.

5) At Kharga's Temple of Hibis, Five Hymns to Amun have a few telling lines which may apply here (ie Humwawa, Pleiades, alignment). Let me just quote a relevant segment from "Adoration of the Ram" by David Klotz":
Quote
Mysterious Ba, ram-headed with four faces on one neck, with 777 ears, with millions upon millions of eyes, with myriads of horns."
.

If this is a description of a constellation, then Taurus is one candidate with the Pleiades fittingly representing an ear made up of seven stars [of which they imagined 777?]

6) As to 3500 B.C. Assuming there is something to the alignment to the Pleiades:

Magli is dating the alignment to Herod but I am not so sure. I tried +100/-1500/-2500/-3500 (which is 100 AD/1501/2501/3501 B.C) which moves the Julian date of a 75°30' sunrise from April 22 to May 17, while the Pleiades becomes clearly visible only for the last two dates, but this is a simulation of course. I think the best thing to do is to actually observe from Baalbek when the Pleiades would have appeared over the Anti-Lebanon Mountain range around the April to May time frame and then determine the date on which the sun rises such that its rays hit the temple axis in parallel. Then go back to the computer and use those altitude data to reconstruct a possible era of when the long axis of this complex was established, which of course says nothing about when people settled there first to live.

7) The Eruk Temple in Nippur. Once repaired by Isme-Dagan and made to smell like "Cedar". This temple also Enlil's house like the far away place of the Cedar Mountain in the story. I took a rough heading of the temple's long axis (of course this is not the original temple) and got 55° azimuth. Can't explain that yet, but it's not pointing due east either.

8) Enlil, my understanding means Lord Storm. As to the origin of the name Baalbek I found this:
Richard C. Steiner
Especially Toponym I sounds like a possible connection. El (mbk nrhm), Haddad, and Enlil all taurine deities? Is that the link?


I'm just tossing things out which came to mind Thanos. There may only be few useful items in this list. My initial impression is that your are right: Baalbek's foundational lay-out is older than Augustus.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 19:10 by Manu.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 2182 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 344 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 280 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 273 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 248 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 248 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 224 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 239 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 206 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 251 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 221 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 208 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 221 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 211 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 212 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 194 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 206 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 240 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 197 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 272 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 234 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 257 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 228 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 252 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 217 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 226 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 230 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 233 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 216 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 214 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 233 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 211 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 223 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 231 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 268 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 216 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 211 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 164 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 196 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 202 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 199 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 186 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 192 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 207 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 189 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 226 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 180 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 230 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 184 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 239 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 214 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 231 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 201 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 219 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 186 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 184 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 202 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 186 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 191 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 208 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 182 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 283 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 203 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 205 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 213 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 226 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 219 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 190 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 211 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 209 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 169 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 223 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 155 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 224 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 197 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 212 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 200 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 192 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 183 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 211 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 206 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 187 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 195 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 180 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 191 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 184 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 204 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 185 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 200 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 205 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 187 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 201 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 250 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 249 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 218 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 218 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 200 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 191 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 206 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 243 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 212 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 194 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 231 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 206 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 254 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 261 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 230 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 277 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 230 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 204 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 212 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 210 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 211 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 45 Thanos5150 14-Sep-19 15:17
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 55 Eddie Larry 14-Sep-19 15:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 53 engbren 17-Sep-19 03:13


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