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Few spontaneous observations in support, all of which subject to target practice:

1) A good parallel development is the Temple of Jupiter in Damascus also built over a previous shrine dedicated to a storm god.

2) The Epic of Gilgamesh, invented or not correctly translated or not, sounds like a walk down the ecliptic. G and E theme = Gemini. Humwawa theme = Taurus, Ut-Napishtim theme = Aquarius. Lion theme - Leo. The number seven specifically (as in seven spendors, seven mountains, etc, is the Pleiades theme. You're gonna laugh, but even Snowwhite and the Seven Dwarves (behind the seven mountain ranges) has an astronomic theme, intended or not: The change of the seasons from winter to spring and the harvest when the Pleiades rise and harvest time comes. Looking at the topographic map, there are at least five elevation ranges from the planes of Mesopotamia towards the Anti-Lebanon Range. I saw one version of the saga which mentions seven mountains, can't remember if that was from the Sumerian version of not.
My Impression is that myths do not easily stand on their own feet in terms of analysis, but they can help support a leg from another discipline. I would not summarily dismiss all legends as fiction and so I have no problem that you are recruiting this story given other evidence with which it is consistent.

Whatever Shulgi and his circle had in mind, I am tempted to think that astronomy mattered to the main story thread in both the translations and the originals even if vocabulary changed, but this is just a hunch and I defer to those who have looked at the texts.

3) Giulo Magli ("ARCHAEOASTRONOMY AND THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE TEMPLE OF JUPITER AT BAALBEK
") used Archeoastronomy to date Baalbek. The long axis points to May First's sunrise which at the latitude of Baalbek is the time of the helical rising of the Pleiades, the "ear of Taurus" so to speak. This was the time of harvest. If this is correct, the temple was a fancy star clock to mark a date of agricultural importance and to appease the storm god who might wreak havoc with the crops.


4) What I found curious is that Baalbek, supposedly a complex dedicated to the sun, is not pointing due east. It points to 75°30' while the temple in Damascus points to ~85° ( I got 84.70°).... The Zeus temple in Kanawat point close to north. None of these really make sense in terms of Roman mythology or the Julian calendar. I can sort of see how Baalbek might be pointing to the sunrise on Easter, but I don't think that even the earliest Christians would have had input into the original foundation's lay-out and in any case, the foundation as per your citations are much much older.

So the orientations of all these temples, if they originally were inspired by the sky, suggest an older, non-Roman origin.

5) At Kharga's Temple of Hibis, Five Hymns to Amun have a few telling lines which may apply here (ie Humwawa, Pleiades, alignment). Let me just quote a relevant segment from "Adoration of the Ram" by David Klotz":
Quote
Mysterious Ba, ram-headed with four faces on one neck, with 777 ears, with millions upon millions of eyes, with myriads of horns."
.

If this is a description of a constellation, then Taurus is one candidate with the Pleiades fittingly representing an ear made up of seven stars [of which they imagined 777?]

6) As to 3500 B.C. Assuming there is something to the alignment to the Pleiades:

Magli is dating the alignment to Herod but I am not so sure. I tried +100/-1500/-2500/-3500 (which is 100 AD/1501/2501/3501 B.C) which moves the Julian date of a 75°30' sunrise from April 22 to May 17, while the Pleiades becomes clearly visible only for the last two dates, but this is a simulation of course. I think the best thing to do is to actually observe from Baalbek when the Pleiades would have appeared over the Anti-Lebanon Mountain range around the April to May time frame and then determine the date on which the sun rises such that its rays hit the temple axis in parallel. Then go back to the computer and use those altitude data to reconstruct a possible era of when the long axis of this complex was established, which of course says nothing about when people settled there first to live.

7) The Eruk Temple in Nippur. Once repaired by Isme-Dagan and made to smell like "Cedar". This temple also Enlil's house like the far away place of the Cedar Mountain in the story. I took a rough heading of the temple's long axis (of course this is not the original temple) and got 55° azimuth. Can't explain that yet, but it's not pointing due east either.

8) Enlil, my understanding means Lord Storm. As to the origin of the name Baalbek I found this:
Richard C. Steiner
Especially Toponym I sounds like a possible connection. El (mbk nrhm), Haddad, and Enlil all taurine deities? Is that the link?


I'm just tossing things out which came to mind Thanos. There may only be few useful items in this list. My initial impression is that your are right: Baalbek's foundational lay-out is older than Augustus.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 19:10 by Manu.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 2951 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 482 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 412 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 391 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 371 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 355 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 332 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 352 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 333 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 363 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 340 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 342 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 329 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 330 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 339 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 336 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 318 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 348 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 327 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 419 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 340 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 384 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 369 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 394 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 347 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 381 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 337 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 341 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 371 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 374 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 335 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 324 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 347 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 350 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 392 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 351 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 329 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 272 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 300 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 325 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 296 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 308 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 304 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 333 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 332 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 357 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 305 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 349 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 326 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 365 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 337 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 362 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 305 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 360 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 296 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 350 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 314 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 320 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 311 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 323 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 315 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 428 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 324 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 307 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 331 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 331 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 348 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 306 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 332 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 337 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 288 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 349 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 255 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 368 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 327 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 314 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 333 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 318 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 291 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 304 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 330 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 311 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 292 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 325 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 283 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 315 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 317 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 345 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 306 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 310 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 348 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 304 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 314 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 365 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 362 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 318 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 342 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 318 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 301 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 362 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 330 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 357 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 321 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 320 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 306 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 354 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 315 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 379 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 364 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 347 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 373 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 368 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 337 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 321 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 328 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 329 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 316 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 146 Thanos5150 14-Sep-19 15:17
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 164 Eddie Larry 14-Sep-19 15:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 225 engbren 17-Sep-19 03:13


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