Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Audrey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanos5150 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you think that maybe when they gave this
> nice
> > tidy impossible number of "forests stretching
> ten
> > thousand leagues in every direction" that maybe
> > this is just a figure of speech for say, "as
> far
> > as the eye can see"? And of all the things in
> the
> > EoG, this is what you guys focus on to
> show
> > the events it speaks of are not "actual
> events"?
> > Lol. Apparently you have not actually read it.
> And
> > by the way, if you are going to really be so
> > pedantic as to actually bother to calculate the
> > dimensions you might want to use the Babylonian
> > league and not the English league which I think
> is
> > a little less than a mile.
>
> I did a 5 min. search for Mesopotamian
> measurements and couldn't find what they equal in
> our measurements. Meso had a 60 base system, odds
> are their league was not the same as what came
> much later. But without a measuring stick of some
> sort, or detailed measurements of every niche in a
> ziggurat, like have been given for the pyramids, I
> don't know how they could know exactly what their
> league was. It's not like the tablets said.... a
> cubit equals X number of Greek pous.

My understanding is that they did not have such a thing as a "league" but the translation was offered as a placeholder using the English word of what they thought was the nearest equivalent. (Added-the idea of it being less than a mile was my own math extrapolating from the cord which the source said the Babylonian equivalent of a "league" was 30 cord, but this could be wrong).

Quote

The word beru, translated by Heidel as double-hour and by Speiser as league is a very curious one. It seems to be formed from a subsidiary stem of the verb root beru, whose basic meaning is to starve or to be hungry. From this basic meaning the subsidiary stem in question developed its meaning to persevere, to hold out, in other words, to hold out against starvation. In actual usage, the meaning was extended and the word came to mean to endure without interruption, and to continue to last. The word was used specifically in astronomy to describe stars and plnets which continued to be visible and had not gone below the horizon. From this verb, a noun was constructed with the meaning duration, although it was generally in the form biritu. A related preposition meant between, since what was endured between constituted an interval.
This noun also had a highly specific astronomical usage, meaning the angle of elongation of a star or planet. That means the angular distance from the sun. (In the case of Mercury, this never exceeds 28 degrees, which is just under 1/3 of a right angle, and may possibly relate to the thirds which were discussed above in note 11.) The central celestial sky band of An had an angular width of between 30 and 34 degrees, since An was identified with the number 60, it would seem that the degrees of his sky band were double-degrees, to yield this number. Perhaps the idea of a double-hour is similarly a normal hour counted double. Heidel does not explain why he has chosen to translate beru as double-hour. I have retained this translation but warn that the word really means 'variable interval', when Gilgamesh's journey below the horizon is described, referring to the 12 unequal hours, two of which are the period of dawn.
F. Rochberg-Hlaton, in an article on stellar distances in Babylonian astronomy stressed that the beru was: 'a unit of measure having three possible dimensions: length, time, or the measurement of an arc. As a unit of length, beru is customarily translated as mile (it is actually something over 10km), and as a unit of time it is equal to 30 ush (ush being the fundamental Babylonian unit for the measurement of both time and of arcs, equivalent to four minutes), hence 120 minutes or a double- hour. In the measurement of an arc, the beru refers to the 12th part of a circle, against 30 ush or 30 degrees, and serves as an astronomical unit, but only in the late mathematical astronomy.' Beru occurs so frequently in the Epic of Gilgamesh that it has been necessary to give a fair amount of information about it. The cosmic journey throughout the Epic, and the number of berus traversed on each occasion, are of great significance for working out what is actually being described. I have opted largely to use the translation double-hour, and occasionally leagues. But precisely what is going on in all instances is by no means clear.

Given the word is "league" I think we can safely assume the actual measure given for the length of this forest was in beru.

Quote

According to Segre¹, “NINDA meant also a measure of time,” 1/60th of 1/360th of a Babylonian day, about 4 seconds. The beru, = 1800 nindānu, would be 2 Babylonian hours, or as a length the distance walked in 1/12 of a Babylonian day.

So if "league" is a beru then this is equivalent to the distance one could walk in 2hrs.

It would appear, regardless, that the translation of "10,000 leagues" in the version being quoted is an error in translation or a mythologized version. The Yale tablet, noted in Geography of Gilgamesh Travels PART 1: The Route to the Mountain of the Cedars p102, says:

"The forest extended 60 leagues in each direction."

Oops. Only 9,940 leagues less.

So, if a beru is equivalent to 2hrs of walking then it would take 5 days to traverse this forest in either direction and 10 days to get from one end to the other. A forest of truly mythical proportions.

> It being a figure of speech is a strong
> possibility. Or as Race said, the numbers are all
> messed up for several reasons.

Indeed.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 20:58 by Thanos5150.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 2124 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 335 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 270 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 263 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 238 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 241 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 215 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 230 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 197 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 243 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 211 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 213 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 205 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 188 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 200 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 233 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 192 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 266 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 228 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 248 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 221 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 246 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 210 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 218 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 224 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 223 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 209 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 206 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 228 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 204 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 215 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 223 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 261 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 207 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 204 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 157 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 190 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 195 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 193 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 178 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 185 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 201 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 183 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 219 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 174 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 224 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 175 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 232 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 205 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 223 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 193 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 209 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 180 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 178 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 196 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 180 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 185 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 202 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 177 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 277 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 196 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 207 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 220 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 212 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 184 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 203 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 163 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 216 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 149 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 218 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 191 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 204 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 193 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 185 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 177 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 193 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 205 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 201 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 180 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 189 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 175 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 184 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 179 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 179 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 195 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 180 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 194 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 242 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 244 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 212 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 212 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 193 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 185 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 194 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 238 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 196 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 205 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 187 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 223 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 199 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 248 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 255 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 223 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 270 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 223 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 197 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 205 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 195 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 203 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 204 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 39 Thanos5150 14-Sep-19 15:17
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 50 Eddie Larry 14-Sep-19 15:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 40 engbren 17-Sep-19 03:13


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.