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Audrey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanos5150 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you think that maybe when they gave this
> nice
> > tidy impossible number of "forests stretching
> ten
> > thousand leagues in every direction" that maybe
> > this is just a figure of speech for say, "as
> far
> > as the eye can see"? And of all the things in
> the
> > EoG, this is what you guys focus on to
> show
> > the events it speaks of are not "actual
> events"?
> > Lol. Apparently you have not actually read it.
> And
> > by the way, if you are going to really be so
> > pedantic as to actually bother to calculate the
> > dimensions you might want to use the Babylonian
> > league and not the English league which I think
> is
> > a little less than a mile.
>
> I did a 5 min. search for Mesopotamian
> measurements and couldn't find what they equal in
> our measurements. Meso had a 60 base system, odds
> are their league was not the same as what came
> much later. But without a measuring stick of some
> sort, or detailed measurements of every niche in a
> ziggurat, like have been given for the pyramids, I
> don't know how they could know exactly what their
> league was. It's not like the tablets said.... a
> cubit equals X number of Greek pous.

My understanding is that they did not have such a thing as a "league" but the translation was offered as a placeholder using the English word of what they thought was the nearest equivalent. (Added-the idea of it being less than a mile was my own math extrapolating from the cord which the source said the Babylonian equivalent of a "league" was 30 cord, but this could be wrong).

Quote

The word beru, translated by Heidel as double-hour and by Speiser as league is a very curious one. It seems to be formed from a subsidiary stem of the verb root beru, whose basic meaning is to starve or to be hungry. From this basic meaning the subsidiary stem in question developed its meaning to persevere, to hold out, in other words, to hold out against starvation. In actual usage, the meaning was extended and the word came to mean to endure without interruption, and to continue to last. The word was used specifically in astronomy to describe stars and plnets which continued to be visible and had not gone below the horizon. From this verb, a noun was constructed with the meaning duration, although it was generally in the form biritu. A related preposition meant between, since what was endured between constituted an interval.
This noun also had a highly specific astronomical usage, meaning the angle of elongation of a star or planet. That means the angular distance from the sun. (In the case of Mercury, this never exceeds 28 degrees, which is just under 1/3 of a right angle, and may possibly relate to the thirds which were discussed above in note 11.) The central celestial sky band of An had an angular width of between 30 and 34 degrees, since An was identified with the number 60, it would seem that the degrees of his sky band were double-degrees, to yield this number. Perhaps the idea of a double-hour is similarly a normal hour counted double. Heidel does not explain why he has chosen to translate beru as double-hour. I have retained this translation but warn that the word really means 'variable interval', when Gilgamesh's journey below the horizon is described, referring to the 12 unequal hours, two of which are the period of dawn.
F. Rochberg-Hlaton, in an article on stellar distances in Babylonian astronomy stressed that the beru was: 'a unit of measure having three possible dimensions: length, time, or the measurement of an arc. As a unit of length, beru is customarily translated as mile (it is actually something over 10km), and as a unit of time it is equal to 30 ush (ush being the fundamental Babylonian unit for the measurement of both time and of arcs, equivalent to four minutes), hence 120 minutes or a double- hour. In the measurement of an arc, the beru refers to the 12th part of a circle, against 30 ush or 30 degrees, and serves as an astronomical unit, but only in the late mathematical astronomy.' Beru occurs so frequently in the Epic of Gilgamesh that it has been necessary to give a fair amount of information about it. The cosmic journey throughout the Epic, and the number of berus traversed on each occasion, are of great significance for working out what is actually being described. I have opted largely to use the translation double-hour, and occasionally leagues. But precisely what is going on in all instances is by no means clear.

Given the word is "league" I think we can safely assume the actual measure given for the length of this forest was in beru.

Quote

According to Segre¹, “NINDA meant also a measure of time,” 1/60th of 1/360th of a Babylonian day, about 4 seconds. The beru, = 1800 nindānu, would be 2 Babylonian hours, or as a length the distance walked in 1/12 of a Babylonian day.

So if "league" is a beru then this is equivalent to the distance one could walk in 2hrs.

It would appear, regardless, that the translation of "10,000 leagues" in the version being quoted is an error in translation or a mythologized version. The Yale tablet, noted in Geography of Gilgamesh Travels PART 1: The Route to the Mountain of the Cedars p102, says:

"The forest extended 60 leagues in each direction."

Oops. Only 9,940 leagues less.

So, if a beru is equivalent to 2hrs of walking then it would take 5 days to traverse this forest in either direction and 10 days to get from one end to the other. A forest of truly mythical proportions.

> It being a figure of speech is a strong
> possibility. Or as Race said, the numbers are all
> messed up for several reasons.

Indeed.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 20:58 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 2855 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 461 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 395 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 370 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 357 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 341 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 322 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 338 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 319 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 356 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 326 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 327 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 316 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 309 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 326 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 320 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 300 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 333 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 316 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 404 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 329 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 369 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 349 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 376 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 330 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 363 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 323 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 329 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 348 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 355 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 321 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 309 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 332 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 335 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 379 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 325 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 316 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 261 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 288 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 299 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 285 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 293 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 292 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 319 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 318 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 340 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 292 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 330 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 310 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 350 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 325 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 350 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 294 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 341 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 284 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 329 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 300 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 304 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 297 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 312 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 301 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 415 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 308 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 291 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 317 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 314 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 331 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 296 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 317 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 312 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 275 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 338 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 246 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 348 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 314 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 296 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 320 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 302 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 281 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 289 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 314 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 293 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 270 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 305 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 263 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 303 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 301 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 323 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 293 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 293 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 331 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 291 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 295 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 351 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 351 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 305 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 322 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 303 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 287 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 332 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 317 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 341 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 295 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 307 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 289 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 338 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 304 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 359 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 352 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 331 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 364 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 351 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 302 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 308 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 314 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 305 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 301 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 135 Thanos5150 14-Sep-19 15:17
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 154 Eddie Larry 14-Sep-19 15:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 215 engbren 17-Sep-19 03:13


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