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Audrey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanos5150 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you think that maybe when they gave this
> nice
> > tidy impossible number of "forests stretching
> ten
> > thousand leagues in every direction" that maybe
> > this is just a figure of speech for say, "as
> far
> > as the eye can see"? And of all the things in
> the
> > EoG, this is what you guys focus on to
> show
> > the events it speaks of are not "actual
> events"?
> > Lol. Apparently you have not actually read it.
> And
> > by the way, if you are going to really be so
> > pedantic as to actually bother to calculate the
> > dimensions you might want to use the Babylonian
> > league and not the English league which I think
> is
> > a little less than a mile.
>
> I did a 5 min. search for Mesopotamian
> measurements and couldn't find what they equal in
> our measurements. Meso had a 60 base system, odds
> are their league was not the same as what came
> much later. But without a measuring stick of some
> sort, or detailed measurements of every niche in a
> ziggurat, like have been given for the pyramids, I
> don't know how they could know exactly what their
> league was. It's not like the tablets said.... a
> cubit equals X number of Greek pous.

My understanding is that they did not have such a thing as a "league" but the translation was offered as a placeholder using the English word of what they thought was the nearest equivalent. (Added-the idea of it being less than a mile was my own math extrapolating from the cord which the source said the Babylonian equivalent of a "league" was 30 cord, but this could be wrong).

Quote

The word beru, translated by Heidel as double-hour and by Speiser as league is a very curious one. It seems to be formed from a subsidiary stem of the verb root beru, whose basic meaning is to starve or to be hungry. From this basic meaning the subsidiary stem in question developed its meaning to persevere, to hold out, in other words, to hold out against starvation. In actual usage, the meaning was extended and the word came to mean to endure without interruption, and to continue to last. The word was used specifically in astronomy to describe stars and plnets which continued to be visible and had not gone below the horizon. From this verb, a noun was constructed with the meaning duration, although it was generally in the form biritu. A related preposition meant between, since what was endured between constituted an interval.
This noun also had a highly specific astronomical usage, meaning the angle of elongation of a star or planet. That means the angular distance from the sun. (In the case of Mercury, this never exceeds 28 degrees, which is just under 1/3 of a right angle, and may possibly relate to the thirds which were discussed above in note 11.) The central celestial sky band of An had an angular width of between 30 and 34 degrees, since An was identified with the number 60, it would seem that the degrees of his sky band were double-degrees, to yield this number. Perhaps the idea of a double-hour is similarly a normal hour counted double. Heidel does not explain why he has chosen to translate beru as double-hour. I have retained this translation but warn that the word really means 'variable interval', when Gilgamesh's journey below the horizon is described, referring to the 12 unequal hours, two of which are the period of dawn.
F. Rochberg-Hlaton, in an article on stellar distances in Babylonian astronomy stressed that the beru was: 'a unit of measure having three possible dimensions: length, time, or the measurement of an arc. As a unit of length, beru is customarily translated as mile (it is actually something over 10km), and as a unit of time it is equal to 30 ush (ush being the fundamental Babylonian unit for the measurement of both time and of arcs, equivalent to four minutes), hence 120 minutes or a double- hour. In the measurement of an arc, the beru refers to the 12th part of a circle, against 30 ush or 30 degrees, and serves as an astronomical unit, but only in the late mathematical astronomy.' Beru occurs so frequently in the Epic of Gilgamesh that it has been necessary to give a fair amount of information about it. The cosmic journey throughout the Epic, and the number of berus traversed on each occasion, are of great significance for working out what is actually being described. I have opted largely to use the translation double-hour, and occasionally leagues. But precisely what is going on in all instances is by no means clear.

Given the word is "league" I think we can safely assume the actual measure given for the length of this forest was in beru.

Quote

According to Segre¹, “NINDA meant also a measure of time,” 1/60th of 1/360th of a Babylonian day, about 4 seconds. The beru, = 1800 nindānu, would be 2 Babylonian hours, or as a length the distance walked in 1/12 of a Babylonian day.

So if "league" is a beru then this is equivalent to the distance one could walk in 2hrs.

It would appear, regardless, that the translation of "10,000 leagues" in the version being quoted is an error in translation or a mythologized version. The Yale tablet, noted in Geography of Gilgamesh Travels PART 1: The Route to the Mountain of the Cedars p102, says:

"The forest extended 60 leagues in each direction."

Oops. Only 9,940 leagues less.

So, if a beru is equivalent to 2hrs of walking then it would take 5 days to traverse this forest in either direction and 10 days to get from one end to the other. A forest of truly mythical proportions.

> It being a figure of speech is a strong
> possibility. Or as Race said, the numbers are all
> messed up for several reasons.

Indeed.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 20:58 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 2415 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 385 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 311 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 306 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 288 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 282 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 255 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 269 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 236 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 285 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 249 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 234 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 252 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 241 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 247 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 222 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 235 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 270 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 229 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 308 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 263 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 285 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 268 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 297 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 255 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 256 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 256 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 262 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 251 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 251 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 258 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 236 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 266 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 258 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 297 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 247 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 241 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 204 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 221 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 230 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 225 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 218 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 221 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 236 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 218 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 255 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 208 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 260 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 225 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 271 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 251 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 257 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 230 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 264 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 212 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 211 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 231 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 222 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 220 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 241 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 211 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 316 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 227 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 230 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 241 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 252 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 249 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 224 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 243 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 240 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 198 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 260 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 185 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 260 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 223 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 237 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 226 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 220 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 208 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 228 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 236 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 230 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 209 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 225 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 205 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 222 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 213 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 236 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 216 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 228 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 230 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 213 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 229 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 285 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 277 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 244 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 246 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 228 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 225 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 235 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 235 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 269 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 228 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 241 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 221 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 259 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 234 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 281 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 287 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 256 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 302 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 271 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 233 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 237 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 231 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 239 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 238 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 69 Thanos5150 14-Sep-19 15:17
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 79 Eddie Larry 14-Sep-19 15:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 108 engbren 17-Sep-19 03:13


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