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Martin Stower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scott Creighton Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can you present a hieratic example of the
> ordinal
> > 'eleventh', 'twelth' etc, where the hieratic
> ten
> > sign ('n') has been rotated sideways along with
> > the units? It's not clear from Gardiner's
> comments
> > if he is referring still only to unit values
> being
> > on their side.
> >
> > One example will do
>
> Will do for what? To explode your spurious
> argument? That’s been done already.
>

Alas, that's news to me.

> Just because this is your last resort, doesn’t
> oblige me to dance to your tune. Burden is on you
> (as it has been all along) to show that there is
> anything wrong with the numerals.

Mr Stower - we know you well enough on this Board to know that if you COULD present such an ordinal number on its side (that is NOT a day of the month) as evidence in support of your claim, you WOULD present it. Of that there is little doubt. That you DON'T present such evidence speaks volumes.


That rotated
> numerals are normal has been established.

It has been established ONLY as normal for days of the month (hence why I originally suggested in our earlier exchange that the numbers on these blocks were days of the month).



> Gardiner’s “etc.” makes it perfectly clear
> that it goes up to “eleventh” and beyond.
>

No, it is far from clear what Gardiner's "etc" means. Gardiner's passage is highly ambiguous. He clearly states "In hieratic the tens and units, when referring to the days of the month, are ivariably laid on their side..." He then goes on to give some examples. He then goes on to talk about similar uses but for UNITS ONLY in hieroglyphs from the Middle Kingdom. He then talks about the "horizontal position" (of what, the units only?) becoming associated with more ordinal than cardinal. He then finishes by saying, "...in hieratic texts [from when, the "Middle Kingdom"?] this position is apt to be found in the words for 'third', 'fourth' etc" Again, is he talking still about UNITS ONLY? It is not clear because Gardiner gives no examples above 9 where we would then see exactly his meaning.

Hence why I have asked for you (or anyone else) to present such an example (that is NOT a day of the month).

> You really want to see
> in the context of an ordinal? Try
> here:



See above.

> It’s a perfectly good example. So are
> these:


You cannot present the disputed numbers from these chambers as examples of your argument. That's nonsense. The fact of the matter is, thus far, the ONLY examples (that apparently are not dates) of the number 10 ('n') being placed on its side exists only in the chambers blasted open by Vyse. Funny that. As in 'funny - peculiar'.



is V20h, by the way—predefined
> and not rotated by me.
>

Yes - see Moeller above.

> Go on, tell us that your arbitrary stipulations
> are not an attempt to load the dice and make them
> come up “forgery”.
>
> M.

My so-called "arbitrary stipulations" are formed from looking at the available evidence. All I ask is that we see somewhere outside the Vyse Chambers an ordinal 'n' on its side (that is clearly NOT a date) and which is contemporary with the early Old Kingdom period. There must be an abundance of such examples - I looked but couldn't find any. Finding just one clear, unambiguous example (that is NOT a day of the month) can't be too much to ask for, now can it?

SC



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 13-Feb-18 21:10 by Scott Creighton.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 2462 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 11:16
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 448 Barbelo 13-Feb-18 11:29
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 421 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 11:56
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 444 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-18 12:55
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 431 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 17:09
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 419 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 17:41
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 379 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 17:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 368 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 17:53
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 377 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 17:58
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 364 R Avry Wilson 13-Feb-18 18:16
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 357 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 21:04
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 376 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-18 21:22
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 369 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:37
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 374 R Avry Wilson 13-Feb-18 23:44
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 361 Merrell 14-Feb-18 08:31
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 337 R Avry Wilson 14-Feb-18 17:52
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 296 Martin Stower 18-Jul-18 14:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 339 R Avry Wilson 13-Feb-18 21:23
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 340 M. J. Thomas 14-Feb-18 01:53
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 326 sfbey 14-Feb-18 02:52
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 336 R Avry Wilson 14-Feb-18 03:12
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 323 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 10:39
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 349 M. J. Thomas 14-Feb-18 11:16
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 311 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:34
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 354 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 17:57
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 383 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 18:20
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 384 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-18 19:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 360 Morten 13-Feb-18 22:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 342 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:31
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 323 Morten 13-Feb-18 22:38
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 392 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:24
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 337 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 12:28
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 389 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 14:50
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 310 cladking 14-Feb-18 15:31
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 383 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 16:05
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 307 cladking 14-Feb-18 16:36
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 325 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 16:40
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 340 Origyptian 14-Feb-18 16:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 322 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 16:58
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 329 Origyptian 14-Feb-18 17:11
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 322 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 17:15
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 332 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 17:29
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 358 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 17:38
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 302 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 18:11
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 299 Morten 14-Feb-18 18:13
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 376 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 18:41
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 370 Morten 14-Feb-18 18:57
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 283 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 09:07
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 345 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 17:24
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 314 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 17:33
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 319 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 18:09
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 322 R Avry Wilson 14-Feb-18 18:17
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 328 Morten 14-Feb-18 16:07
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 325 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 16:35
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 320 Morten 14-Feb-18 18:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 325 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 18:51
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 311 Origyptian 14-Feb-18 19:02
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 322 R Avry Wilson 14-Feb-18 19:02
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 330 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 19:13
Agree. n/t 306 Morten 14-Feb-18 19:03
Re: Agree. n/t 307 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 19:47
Linen list 313 Morten 14-Feb-18 20:08
Re: Linen list 326 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 22:43
Re: Linen list 305 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 22:59
Re: Linen list 321 Morten 14-Feb-18 23:09
Re: Linen list 311 Morten 15-Feb-18 10:54
Re: Linen list 351 Origyptian 15-Feb-18 15:08
Re: Linen list 290 Morten 15-Feb-18 19:15
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 342 Manu 07-Apr-18 02:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 371 Scott Creighton 07-Apr-18 15:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 375 Manu 07-Apr-18 19:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 417 Martin Stower 03-May-18 21:57
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 342 Corpuscles 13-Feb-18 21:37
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 356 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:54
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 316 Corpuscles 13-Feb-18 23:55
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 326 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 00:19
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 349 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 00:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 349 Corpuscles 14-Feb-18 01:01
I Know Someone Who May Be Able To Help 332 Barbelo 14-Feb-18 04:07
Re: I Know Someone Who May Be Able To Help 346 Corpuscles 14-Feb-18 06:31
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 327 eyeofhorus33 14-Feb-18 18:53
This book might help ? 327 sfbey 14-Feb-18 18:20
Re: This book might help ? 331 Morten 14-Feb-18 18:36
Re: This book might help ? 320 sfbey 14-Feb-18 18:47
Re: This book might help ? 327 Warwick 14-Feb-18 19:16
Re: This book might help ? 311 sfbey 14-Feb-18 20:14
Re: This book might help ? 308 Warwick 14-Feb-18 20:40
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 395 Morten 14-Feb-18 23:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 335 sfbey 15-Feb-18 02:29
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 347 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 10:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 325 Morten 15-Feb-18 10:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 323 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 11:12
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 316 Morten 15-Feb-18 12:11
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 338 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 12:28
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 345 Morten 15-Feb-18 12:59
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 300 Morten 15-Feb-18 17:09
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 341 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 17:23
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 305 Morten 15-Feb-18 17:39
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 311 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 17:58
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 311 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 18:29
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 305 Morten 15-Feb-18 18:53
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 317 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 18:27
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 313 Morten 15-Feb-18 18:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 345 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 18:04
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 322 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 18:17
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 282 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 18:23
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 416 Martin Stower 18-Feb-18 23:33
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 310 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 11:33
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 305 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 18:13
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 294 Warwick 15-Feb-18 18:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 315 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:20
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 334 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 18:40
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 343 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:08
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 378 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 20:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 339 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 15:21
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 324 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 16:24
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 325 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 16:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 329 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 16:36
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 309 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 16:41
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 314 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 16:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 345 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 17:16
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 302 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 17:27
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 292 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 18:17
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 328 eyeofhorus33 15-Feb-18 18:25
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 303 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 18:52
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 315 eyeofhorus33 15-Feb-18 19:03
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 397 eyeofhorus33 15-Feb-18 19:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 315 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 19:15
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 316 eyeofhorus33 15-Feb-18 19:36
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 310 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 19:38
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 326 sfbey 15-Feb-18 19:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 321 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 20:25
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 330 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:30
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 317 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 20:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 324 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:06
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 333 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:38
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 320 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 20:56
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 306 Morten 15-Feb-18 21:09
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 324 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:19
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 295 Morten 15-Feb-18 21:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 326 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:34
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 307 Morten 15-Feb-18 21:42
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 305 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:53
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 317 Morten 15-Feb-18 21:58
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 315 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 22:06
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 324 sfbey 16-Feb-18 00:03
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 362 Morten 16-Feb-18 06:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 319 Scott Creighton 16-Feb-18 11:05
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 328 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 11:21
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 311 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 294 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 315 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:34
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 302 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:17
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 263 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:24
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 266 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:39
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 293 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 326 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:59
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 378 Scott Creighton 27-Feb-18 11:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 387 Martin Stower 27-Feb-18 14:33
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 348 Scott Creighton 27-Feb-18 15:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 334 Martin Stower 27-Feb-18 16:05
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 326 Scott Creighton 27-Feb-18 16:12
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 327 Martin Stower 27-Feb-18 16:25
Curiouser and curiouser 382 Warwick 27-Feb-18 18:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 301 Corpuscles 15-Feb-18 21:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 331 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 22:13
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 295 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 307 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 20:39
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 318 Spiros 16-Feb-18 09:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 296 Spiros 16-Feb-18 11:38
Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 368 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 14:19
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 328 Morten 16-Feb-18 14:52
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 295 Morten 16-Feb-18 14:55
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 306 sfbey 16-Feb-18 14:59
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 339 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 15:13
Thank you n/t 397 Morten 16-Feb-18 15:53
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 326 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 15:00
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 302 Morten 16-Feb-18 15:25
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 306 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 15:29
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 307 sfbey 16-Feb-18 15:05
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 318 sfbey 16-Feb-18 15:12
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 323 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 15:18
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 304 Morten 16-Feb-18 15:51


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