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Pudding. You know, where they keep the proof and all that.

Sirfiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Scott,
>
> Actually it is much easier to understand Ancient
> Egyptian methods if you have no knowledge of pi
> whatsoever. Unfortunately it seems no one is
> capable of overcoming their pi programming to view
> things from a different perspective clearly.

Now there's there's a terribly ironic thing for you to say. I'm not incapable of comprehending 22/7 or a seked, I just haven't had it proven to me that they ever represented the state of the art.

Suppose things in ancient Egypt were a lot like they were on GMBH and you have a couple of guys trying to give Pi away and nobody will touch it because they're perfectly happy with their 22/7, which obviously works fine for lots of things. It's just not the best that we're capable of, and I have no reason to think it was best they were capable of.

Anyway, yeah, we know you. Show us the papyrus. Therefore to use the very same criteria, the Great Pyramid was improvised because no blueprint can be produced that demonstrates premeditation.

God forbid we get you near the subject of Stonehenge because that too will have to have been improvised, because we certainly aren't likely to find you a papyrus that demonstrates any planning whatsoever went into that either. If it wasn't written down, it just never existed, end of story, right?

Sure, that's a great way to never lose an argument, to demand proofs you know you're most likely never going to get, but when is it your turn to be on the receiving end of that?

I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is 6 Pi feet. I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is (1/9) x (Pi^2) Royal Cubits. That's 10.96622711 Royal Cubits, not 11. Can you tell the difference? There is one.

I want you to prove to me that it's 11 Cubits. 1.715681818 to use Petrie's data - isn't a cubit in my book. I have enough cubits already, thanks. I have an important mathematical constant 1.715917826 in my book that probably merits more investigation for geodetic value, but I have yet to encounter an incentive to declare it or many other things an actual cubit value.

1.715681818 could be a cubit, there are countless cubits if I did like Egyptological types and round off to the nearest cubit without having to account for what that does to the length of a cubit, which is how Petrie managed to have such a menagerie of cubits that it allowed him to remain oblivious to the obvious use of the Remen in Egyptian architectural design.

As in the modern day where there is the need for metric standards to prevent an avalanche of different ways of looking at a given unit, there probably would have been a similar need in ancient times for metric standards, and I can't think of a better one than the exact geometric derivation of the consensus cubit value in feet.

Still trying my best to keep it down to one Royal Cubit, two Remens, and three Megalithic Yards here. Wish me luck keeping down the number of Palestine Cubits, I'll definitely need it.

I still haven't shown you a measuring rod or a papyrus proving they were aware of the modern foot to illuminate the Royal Cubit value thus, but I could ask what people think the diagonal of Chephren's pyramid is even if I disagree with them, and I have a round 216.0000000 feet as the intended height of Mycerinus' pyramid. These may not constitute proof of anything but they do look suspiciously like evidence.

Can you get out a papyrus or a pocket calculator and prove to me that the QC is 11 Cubits long, or is it even fair for me to ask you that if I'm already skeptical that you can deliver?

I was hoping we might be able to shed light on things looking at larger measures - I currently have it that the E-W distance between the apices of Chephren and Mycerinus' pyramids according to Petrie would probably be exactly 100 times the length of the Queen's Chamber, but I'm afraid the difference between 22/7 and Pi even at that scale is probably within a typical error margin for Petrie.

I can't prove that assessment either but I could tender as possible evidence that to regard the QC and Chephren-Mycerinus distances that way gives pleasing results in a number of metrologies using already established values even when demanding absolute precision.

Beyond that, as always I can only default to the idea that ancient architecture is meticulously designed, and that the parts should fit together coherently within in a rigid standard of accuracy. They should multiply and divide well, they should add and subtract well where applicable even for as mutually exclusive as those different operations may be. Their parts should show significant ratios between one another. They should probably frequently reference astronomy and geodesy to be convincing.

So what should we think of mathematics that can live up to all of those rigorous demands?

Do we think masterpieces like that just design themselves by accident?

Sadly, even this may not settle the issue, because 22/7 is Pi to .9995976620, while the standard of accuracy I've been able to establish is >.9995.

We might only be able to agree to disagree and see where our respective paths of inquiry take us and stop demanding proofs from one another that we should know it isn't reasonable to ask for.

I dunno, unless maybe someone is going to prove to me whether you can use their numbers at higher powers like I'm so often able to use mine, or whether the difference between 22/7 and Pi is going to become noticeable with exponential use by its impact on the numbers we should expect to see as output from that sort of application.

That's data capacity, and wanting to make any kind of statements through numbers incorporated into architecture is wanting to store data. What sort of math best serves that purpose?

Anyway, at the third power, the difference between 22/7 and Pi becomes

((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478

Their similarity seems to be plummeting here, from (22/7) / Pi = .9995976620 all the way down to ((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478, and at only the 3rd power.

Can you think of a way to use this to advantage in sorting out whether we have any examples of applications that can only work with Pi and not 22/7, as possible evidence that true Pi had to be used in the planning, even if it wasn't typical ancient Egyptian math?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02-Jan-20 21:47 by thinkitover.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 3067 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 03:26
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 480 drew 06-Feb-18 04:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 443 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 17:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 348 drew 06-Feb-18 23:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ???????????????? 406 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Feb-18 14:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 323 molder 08-Feb-18 05:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 332 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 06:43
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 323 DavidK 08-Feb-18 10:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 322 molder 08-Feb-18 11:56
linking egyptian Pi to imperial Pi 268 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 275 DavidK 08-Feb-18 13:58
cubit of 20.25? 236 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:12
where does Fibonacci Pi come from? 262 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:49
Re: cubit of 20.25? 323 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 15:08
Re: cubit of 20.25? 285 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:15
Re: cubit of 20.25? 284 molder 09-Feb-18 03:58
Mod Note > Off-Topic Posts 308 Dr. Troglodyte 09-Feb-18 16:38
Re: cubit of 20.25? 434 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 21:02
Oh...what a shame... 317 drew 09-Feb-18 00:33
Re: Oh...what a shame... 313 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 04:47
Re: Oh...what a shame... 339 drew 09-Feb-18 06:02
Re: Oh...what a shame... 332 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 13:28
Re: Oh...what a shame... 320 DavidK 22-Jun-18 05:58
Re: Oh...what a shame... 262 drew 22-Jun-18 09:54
Re: Oh...what a shame... 326 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 13:32
Re: Oh...what a shame... 301 drew 22-Jun-18 22:27
Re: Oh...what a shame... 287 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 01:48
Re: well put 263 drew 23-Jun-18 08:08
To put it bluntly! 301 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 12:40
Re: well put 287 Manu 23-Jun-18 18:33
Re: extensions of numbers 237 drew 24-Jun-18 00:40
Re: extensions of numbers 295 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 04:50
Re: extensions of numbers 239 drew 24-Jun-18 08:36
Re: extensions of numbers 236 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:22
Re: extensions of numbers 245 drew 24-Jun-18 20:53
Re: extensions of numbers 245 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:06
Re: extensions of numbers 227 DavidK 25-Jun-18 16:13
Re: extensions of numbers 230 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:46
the primitive calculator 231 drew 25-Jun-18 23:23
Re: the primitive calculator 276 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 02:24
Re: the primitive calculator 212 drew 26-Jun-18 07:06
Mod Note > Duplicate Post Removed 241 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Jun-18 12:45
Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 258 rodz111 26-Jun-18 13:55
Re: Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 191 drew 27-Jun-18 05:18
Re: the primitive calculator 247 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:00
Re: the primitive calculator 246 drew 27-Jun-18 00:01
Re: the primitive calculator 234 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 00:18
Re: the primitive calculator 215 drew 27-Jun-18 01:56
Re: well put 210 cloister 24-Jun-18 09:43
Re: well put 238 Manu 24-Jun-18 12:59
Re: well put 231 cloister 24-Jun-18 18:14
Re: well put 281 cloister 29-Jun-18 08:48
Re: well put 220 drew 27-Jun-18 05:11
Re: Oh...what a shame... 286 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 12:21
Re: Oh...what a shame... 309 molder 23-Jun-18 00:24
Re: Oh...what a shame... 295 DavidK 23-Jun-18 21:06
Re: Oh...what a shame... 246 DavidK 24-Jun-18 07:41
Understanding the differences! 237 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:50
No pie for jacob 290 DavidK 24-Jun-18 08:54
Re: No pie for jacob 238 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:44
Re: No pie for jacob 254 DavidK 25-Jun-18 20:21
Re: No pie for jacob 237 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 23:19
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 223 molder 26-Jun-18 00:51
Re: what value for pi? 220 drew 26-Jun-18 14:11
Re: what value for pi? 258 molder 26-Jun-18 21:30
Re: what value for pi? 213 drew 26-Jun-18 23:42
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 212 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 14:55
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 259 molder 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 247 DavidK 26-Jun-18 10:34
Re: No pie for jacob 211 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 15:02
Re: No pie for jacob 206 DavidK 26-Jun-18 16:46
Re: No pie for jacob 220 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:12
Re: No pie for jacob 230 DavidK 26-Jun-18 18:58
Re: No pie for jacob 255 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 22:59
Re: No pie for jacob 216 DUNE 26-Jun-18 19:52
Re: No pie for jacob 206 DavidK 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 221 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 23:10
Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 231 DavidK 27-Jun-18 05:37
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 256 drew 27-Jun-18 06:16
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 233 DavidK 27-Jun-18 10:25
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 238 drew 27-Jun-18 21:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 263 rodz111 25-Jun-18 17:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 261 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 19:54
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 218 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 253 molder 26-Jun-18 03:19
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 240 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 234 molder 26-Jun-18 21:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 296 rodz111 28-Jun-18 07:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 232 drew 28-Jun-18 09:56
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 264 rodz111 28-Jun-18 11:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 250 drew 28-Jun-18 17:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 266 DavidK 28-Jun-18 20:00
Tripping over museum rods 255 drew 28-Jun-18 23:52
Museum rods 230 drew 29-Jun-18 00:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 253 rodz111 29-Jun-18 00:37
You're as much as a complainer as anyone but you're not... 243 drew 29-Jun-18 01:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 307 rodz111 30-Jun-18 01:21
You down and dirty so-n-so 254 drew 27-Jun-18 05:29
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 199 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 08:17
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 204 drew 27-Jun-18 09:49
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 313 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 17:12
The math or the pyramid? 269 drew 27-Jun-18 20:46
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 188 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:04
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 217 Sirfiroth 17-Jul-18 23:16
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 207 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 302 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 10:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 234 molder 19-Jul-18 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 276 Sirfiroth 19-Jul-18 12:05
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 383 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 23:57
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 240 DavidK 20-Jul-18 08:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 303 spaceyhippie 20-Jul-18 21:58
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 196 DavidK 22-Jul-18 09:41
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 289 spaceyhippie 23-Jul-18 02:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 233 DavidK 23-Jul-18 08:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 248 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 13:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 225 DavidK 23-Jul-18 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 250 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 23:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 235 DavidK 24-Jul-18 09:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 194 Sirfiroth 24-Jul-18 13:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 177 DavidK 27-Jul-18 06:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 218 Sirfiroth 27-Jul-18 15:45
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 284 spaceyhippie 24-Jul-18 02:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 279 DavidK 24-Jul-18 17:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 324 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 00:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 260 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 14:36
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 362 spaceyhippie 29-Jul-18 11:01
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 249 DavidK 06-Aug-18 19:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 229 DavidK 07-Aug-18 05:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 236 spaceyhippie 08-Aug-18 09:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 236 DavidK 08-Aug-18 09:39
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 276 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 02:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 292 DavidK 09-Aug-18 08:00
ROTFLMAO! 195 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 13:22
Re: ROTFLMAO! 191 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:12
Re: ROTFLMAO! 214 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 14:28
Re: ROTFLMAO! 184 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:49
Re: ROTFLMAO! 189 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 15:03
Re: ROTFLMAO! 211 DavidK 09-Aug-18 21:39
Re: ROTFLMAO! 221 Sirfiroth 10-Aug-18 02:06
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 236 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 20:40
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 297 DavidK 10-Aug-18 07:59
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 304 Steve Clayton 12-Aug-18 18:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 96 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 87 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 03:46
Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 96 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 04:59
Re: Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 75 molder 28-Dec-19 10:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 71 DavidK 28-Dec-19 10:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 84 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 96 Thanos5150 28-Dec-19 16:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 86 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 21:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 81 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 84 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 02:17
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 74 molder 29-Dec-19 04:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 81 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 12:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 70 molder 29-Dec-19 22:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 72 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 14:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 103 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 15:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 70 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 03:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 104 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-19 04:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 83 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 15:04
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 84 spaceyhippie 31-Dec-19 23:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 86 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:29
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 80 DavidK 29-Dec-19 09:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 84 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 14:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 71 spaceyhippie 01-Jan-20 23:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 93 Sirfiroth 02-Jan-20 01:33
Pi vs Pudding 90 thinkitover 02-Jan-20 21:45
Re: Pi vs Pudding 70 spaceyhippie 03-Jan-20 00:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 78 seasmith 03-Jan-20 00:24
Re: Pi vs Pudding 75 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 23:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 110 seasmith 08-Jan-20 02:54
Re: Pi vs Pudding 80 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 03:36
Re: Pi vs Pudding 76 molder 03-Jan-20 06:56
Re: Pi vs Pudding 82 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 18:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 72 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:02
LOL, now that was hilarious ! 73 Sirfiroth 04-Jan-20 05:51
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 92 hendrik dirker 04-Jan-20 09:32
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 65 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:37
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 73 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:39
Re: Pi vs Pudding 94 molder 04-Jan-20 11:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 83 Sirfiroth 05-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi vs Pudding 67 molder 06-Jan-20 02:55
Re: Pi vs Pudding 96 magisterchessmutt 06-Jan-20 02:58
Re: Pi vs Pudding 68 molder 06-Jan-20 05:26
Re: Pi vs Pudding 74 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 01:32
Re: Pi vs Pudding 63 DavidK 07-Jan-20 02:02
Re: Pi vs Pudding 83 thinkitover 06-Jan-20 06:13
Re: Pi vs Pudding 87 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 02:18
Re: Pi vs Pudding 64 DavidK 07-Jan-20 14:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 74 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 15:16
Re: Pi vs Pudding 77 DavidK 07-Jan-20 19:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 64 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 20:08
Re: Pi vs Pudding 71 DavidK 07-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 93 DavidK 28-Dec-19 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 87 engbren 28-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 93 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:55
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 80 engbren 29-Dec-19 01:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 79 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 16:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 81 engbren 30-Dec-19 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 128 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 23:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 98 engbren 31-Dec-19 11:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 84 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:42


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