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Pudding. You know, where they keep the proof and all that.

Sirfiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Scott,
>
> Actually it is much easier to understand Ancient
> Egyptian methods if you have no knowledge of pi
> whatsoever. Unfortunately it seems no one is
> capable of overcoming their pi programming to view
> things from a different perspective clearly.

Now there's there's a terribly ironic thing for you to say. I'm not incapable of comprehending 22/7 or a seked, I just haven't had it proven to me that they ever represented the state of the art.

Suppose things in ancient Egypt were a lot like they were on GMBH and you have a couple of guys trying to give Pi away and nobody will touch it because they're perfectly happy with their 22/7, which obviously works fine for lots of things. It's just not the best that we're capable of, and I have no reason to think it was best they were capable of.

Anyway, yeah, we know you. Show us the papyrus. Therefore to use the very same criteria, the Great Pyramid was improvised because no blueprint can be produced that demonstrates premeditation.

God forbid we get you near the subject of Stonehenge because that too will have to have been improvised, because we certainly aren't likely to find you a papyrus that demonstrates any planning whatsoever went into that either. If it wasn't written down, it just never existed, end of story, right?

Sure, that's a great way to never lose an argument, to demand proofs you know you're most likely never going to get, but when is it your turn to be on the receiving end of that?

I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is 6 Pi feet. I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is (1/9) x (Pi^2) Royal Cubits. That's 10.96622711 Royal Cubits, not 11. Can you tell the difference? There is one.

I want you to prove to me that it's 11 Cubits. 1.715681818 to use Petrie's data - isn't a cubit in my book. I have enough cubits already, thanks. I have an important mathematical constant 1.715917826 in my book that probably merits more investigation for geodetic value, but I have yet to encounter an incentive to declare it or many other things an actual cubit value.

1.715681818 could be a cubit, there are countless cubits if I did like Egyptological types and round off to the nearest cubit without having to account for what that does to the length of a cubit, which is how Petrie managed to have such a menagerie of cubits that it allowed him to remain oblivious to the obvious use of the Remen in Egyptian architectural design.

As in the modern day where there is the need for metric standards to prevent an avalanche of different ways of looking at a given unit, there probably would have been a similar need in ancient times for metric standards, and I can't think of a better one than the exact geometric derivation of the consensus cubit value in feet.

Still trying my best to keep it down to one Royal Cubit, two Remens, and three Megalithic Yards here. Wish me luck keeping down the number of Palestine Cubits, I'll definitely need it.

I still haven't shown you a measuring rod or a papyrus proving they were aware of the modern foot to illuminate the Royal Cubit value thus, but I could ask what people think the diagonal of Chephren's pyramid is even if I disagree with them, and I have a round 216.0000000 feet as the intended height of Mycerinus' pyramid. These may not constitute proof of anything but they do look suspiciously like evidence.

Can you get out a papyrus or a pocket calculator and prove to me that the QC is 11 Cubits long, or is it even fair for me to ask you that if I'm already skeptical that you can deliver?

I was hoping we might be able to shed light on things looking at larger measures - I currently have it that the E-W distance between the apices of Chephren and Mycerinus' pyramids according to Petrie would probably be exactly 100 times the length of the Queen's Chamber, but I'm afraid the difference between 22/7 and Pi even at that scale is probably within a typical error margin for Petrie.

I can't prove that assessment either but I could tender as possible evidence that to regard the QC and Chephren-Mycerinus distances that way gives pleasing results in a number of metrologies using already established values even when demanding absolute precision.

Beyond that, as always I can only default to the idea that ancient architecture is meticulously designed, and that the parts should fit together coherently within in a rigid standard of accuracy. They should multiply and divide well, they should add and subtract well where applicable even for as mutually exclusive as those different operations may be. Their parts should show significant ratios between one another. They should probably frequently reference astronomy and geodesy to be convincing.

So what should we think of mathematics that can live up to all of those rigorous demands?

Do we think masterpieces like that just design themselves by accident?

Sadly, even this may not settle the issue, because 22/7 is Pi to .9995976620, while the standard of accuracy I've been able to establish is >.9995.

We might only be able to agree to disagree and see where our respective paths of inquiry take us and stop demanding proofs from one another that we should know it isn't reasonable to ask for.

I dunno, unless maybe someone is going to prove to me whether you can use their numbers at higher powers like I'm so often able to use mine, or whether the difference between 22/7 and Pi is going to become noticeable with exponential use by its impact on the numbers we should expect to see as output from that sort of application.

That's data capacity, and wanting to make any kind of statements through numbers incorporated into architecture is wanting to store data. What sort of math best serves that purpose?

Anyway, at the third power, the difference between 22/7 and Pi becomes

((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478

Their similarity seems to be plummeting here, from (22/7) / Pi = .9995976620 all the way down to ((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478, and at only the 3rd power.

Can you think of a way to use this to advantage in sorting out whether we have any examples of applications that can only work with Pi and not 22/7, as possible evidence that true Pi had to be used in the planning, even if it wasn't typical ancient Egyptian math?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02-Jan-20 21:47 by thinkitover.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 2966 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 03:26
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 441 drew 06-Feb-18 04:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 400 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 17:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 327 drew 06-Feb-18 23:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ???????????????? 378 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Feb-18 14:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 295 molder 08-Feb-18 05:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 300 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 06:43
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 296 DavidK 08-Feb-18 10:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 293 molder 08-Feb-18 11:56
linking egyptian Pi to imperial Pi 237 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 251 DavidK 08-Feb-18 13:58
cubit of 20.25? 192 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:12
where does Fibonacci Pi come from? 236 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:49
Re: cubit of 20.25? 280 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 15:08
Re: cubit of 20.25? 260 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:15
Re: cubit of 20.25? 253 molder 09-Feb-18 03:58
Mod Note > Off-Topic Posts 254 Dr. Troglodyte 09-Feb-18 16:38
Re: cubit of 20.25? 363 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 21:02
Oh...what a shame... 287 drew 09-Feb-18 00:33
Re: Oh...what a shame... 289 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 04:47
Re: Oh...what a shame... 288 drew 09-Feb-18 06:02
Re: Oh...what a shame... 304 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 13:28
Re: Oh...what a shame... 284 DavidK 22-Jun-18 05:58
Re: Oh...what a shame... 239 drew 22-Jun-18 09:54
Re: Oh...what a shame... 292 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 13:32
Re: Oh...what a shame... 269 drew 22-Jun-18 22:27
Re: Oh...what a shame... 264 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 01:48
Re: well put 241 drew 23-Jun-18 08:08
To put it bluntly! 279 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 12:40
Re: well put 264 Manu 23-Jun-18 18:33
Re: extensions of numbers 213 drew 24-Jun-18 00:40
Re: extensions of numbers 271 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 04:50
Re: extensions of numbers 184 drew 24-Jun-18 08:36
Re: extensions of numbers 209 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:22
Re: extensions of numbers 211 drew 24-Jun-18 20:53
Re: extensions of numbers 213 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:06
Re: extensions of numbers 174 DavidK 25-Jun-18 16:13
Re: extensions of numbers 180 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:46
the primitive calculator 204 drew 25-Jun-18 23:23
Re: the primitive calculator 236 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 02:24
Re: the primitive calculator 188 drew 26-Jun-18 07:06
Mod Note > Duplicate Post Removed 205 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Jun-18 12:45
Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 229 rodz111 26-Jun-18 13:55
Re: Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 161 drew 27-Jun-18 05:18
Re: the primitive calculator 195 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:00
Re: the primitive calculator 216 drew 27-Jun-18 00:01
Re: the primitive calculator 209 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 00:18
Re: the primitive calculator 191 drew 27-Jun-18 01:56
Re: well put 188 cloister 24-Jun-18 09:43
Re: well put 215 Manu 24-Jun-18 12:59
Re: well put 206 cloister 24-Jun-18 18:14
Re: well put 241 cloister 29-Jun-18 08:48
Re: well put 179 drew 27-Jun-18 05:11
Re: Oh...what a shame... 252 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 12:21
Re: Oh...what a shame... 278 molder 23-Jun-18 00:24
Re: Oh...what a shame... 240 DavidK 23-Jun-18 21:06
Re: Oh...what a shame... 198 DavidK 24-Jun-18 07:41
Understanding the differences! 205 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:50
No pie for jacob 262 DavidK 24-Jun-18 08:54
Re: No pie for jacob 214 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:44
Re: No pie for jacob 230 DavidK 25-Jun-18 20:21
Re: No pie for jacob 193 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 23:19
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 202 molder 26-Jun-18 00:51
Re: what value for pi? 198 drew 26-Jun-18 14:11
Re: what value for pi? 197 molder 26-Jun-18 21:30
Re: what value for pi? 182 drew 26-Jun-18 23:42
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 187 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 14:55
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 235 molder 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 210 DavidK 26-Jun-18 10:34
Re: No pie for jacob 187 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 15:02
Re: No pie for jacob 186 DavidK 26-Jun-18 16:46
Re: No pie for jacob 198 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:12
Re: No pie for jacob 188 DavidK 26-Jun-18 18:58
Re: No pie for jacob 198 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 22:59
Re: No pie for jacob 188 DUNE 26-Jun-18 19:52
Re: No pie for jacob 177 DavidK 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 199 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 23:10
Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 208 DavidK 27-Jun-18 05:37
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 212 drew 27-Jun-18 06:16
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 204 DavidK 27-Jun-18 10:25
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 212 drew 27-Jun-18 21:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 227 rodz111 25-Jun-18 17:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 240 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 19:54
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 189 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 214 molder 26-Jun-18 03:19
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 210 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 213 molder 26-Jun-18 21:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 243 rodz111 28-Jun-18 07:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 191 drew 28-Jun-18 09:56
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 237 rodz111 28-Jun-18 11:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 195 drew 28-Jun-18 17:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 223 DavidK 28-Jun-18 20:00
Tripping over museum rods 216 drew 28-Jun-18 23:52
Museum rods 206 drew 29-Jun-18 00:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 225 rodz111 29-Jun-18 00:37
You're as much as a complainer as anyone but you're not... 220 drew 29-Jun-18 01:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 277 rodz111 30-Jun-18 01:21
You down and dirty so-n-so 223 drew 27-Jun-18 05:29
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 172 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 08:17
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 184 drew 27-Jun-18 09:49
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 277 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 17:12
The math or the pyramid? 237 drew 27-Jun-18 20:46
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 163 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:04
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 171 Sirfiroth 17-Jul-18 23:16
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 185 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 271 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 10:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 204 molder 19-Jul-18 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 248 Sirfiroth 19-Jul-18 12:05
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 292 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 23:57
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 208 DavidK 20-Jul-18 08:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 267 spaceyhippie 20-Jul-18 21:58
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 164 DavidK 22-Jul-18 09:41
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 262 spaceyhippie 23-Jul-18 02:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 208 DavidK 23-Jul-18 08:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 211 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 13:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 194 DavidK 23-Jul-18 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 197 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 23:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 209 DavidK 24-Jul-18 09:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 165 Sirfiroth 24-Jul-18 13:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 151 DavidK 27-Jul-18 06:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 188 Sirfiroth 27-Jul-18 15:45
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 250 spaceyhippie 24-Jul-18 02:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 239 DavidK 24-Jul-18 17:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 267 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 00:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 230 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 14:36
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 328 spaceyhippie 29-Jul-18 11:01
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 219 DavidK 06-Aug-18 19:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 183 DavidK 07-Aug-18 05:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 213 spaceyhippie 08-Aug-18 09:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 208 DavidK 08-Aug-18 09:39
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 235 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 02:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 256 DavidK 09-Aug-18 08:00
ROTFLMAO! 170 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 13:22
Re: ROTFLMAO! 167 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:12
Re: ROTFLMAO! 161 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 14:28
Re: ROTFLMAO! 162 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:49
Re: ROTFLMAO! 168 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 15:03
Re: ROTFLMAO! 169 DavidK 09-Aug-18 21:39
Re: ROTFLMAO! 196 Sirfiroth 10-Aug-18 02:06
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 210 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 20:40
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 235 DavidK 10-Aug-18 07:59
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 275 Steve Clayton 12-Aug-18 18:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 76 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 64 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 03:46
Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 69 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 04:59
Re: Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 52 molder 28-Dec-19 10:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 50 DavidK 28-Dec-19 10:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 62 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 74 Thanos5150 28-Dec-19 16:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 62 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 21:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 57 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 62 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 02:17
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 53 molder 29-Dec-19 04:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 57 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 12:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 48 molder 29-Dec-19 22:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 50 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 14:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 49 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 15:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 49 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 03:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 54 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-19 04:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 61 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 15:04
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 62 spaceyhippie 31-Dec-19 23:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 62 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:29
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 57 DavidK 29-Dec-19 09:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 62 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 14:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 50 spaceyhippie 01-Jan-20 23:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 72 Sirfiroth 02-Jan-20 01:33
Pi vs Pudding 66 thinkitover 02-Jan-20 21:45
Re: Pi vs Pudding 48 spaceyhippie 03-Jan-20 00:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 55 seasmith 03-Jan-20 00:24
Re: Pi vs Pudding 52 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 23:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 77 seasmith 08-Jan-20 02:54
Re: Pi vs Pudding 59 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 03:36
Re: Pi vs Pudding 51 molder 03-Jan-20 06:56
Re: Pi vs Pudding 60 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 18:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 52 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:02
LOL, now that was hilarious ! 53 Sirfiroth 04-Jan-20 05:51
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 68 hendrik dirker 04-Jan-20 09:32
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 42 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:37
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 50 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:39
Re: Pi vs Pudding 69 molder 04-Jan-20 11:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 62 Sirfiroth 05-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi vs Pudding 43 molder 06-Jan-20 02:55
Re: Pi vs Pudding 46 magisterchessmutt 06-Jan-20 02:58
Re: Pi vs Pudding 44 molder 06-Jan-20 05:26
Re: Pi vs Pudding 48 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 01:32
Re: Pi vs Pudding 41 DavidK 07-Jan-20 02:02
Re: Pi vs Pudding 60 thinkitover 06-Jan-20 06:13
Re: Pi vs Pudding 65 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 02:18
Re: Pi vs Pudding 40 DavidK 07-Jan-20 14:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 51 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 15:16
Re: Pi vs Pudding 57 DavidK 07-Jan-20 19:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 43 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 20:08
Re: Pi vs Pudding 50 DavidK 07-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 69 DavidK 28-Dec-19 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 63 engbren 28-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 71 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:55
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 59 engbren 29-Dec-19 01:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 54 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 16:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 56 engbren 30-Dec-19 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 78 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 23:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 73 engbren 31-Dec-19 11:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 63 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:42


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