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Pudding. You know, where they keep the proof and all that.

Sirfiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Scott,
>
> Actually it is much easier to understand Ancient
> Egyptian methods if you have no knowledge of pi
> whatsoever. Unfortunately it seems no one is
> capable of overcoming their pi programming to view
> things from a different perspective clearly.

Now there's there's a terribly ironic thing for you to say. I'm not incapable of comprehending 22/7 or a seked, I just haven't had it proven to me that they ever represented the state of the art.

Suppose things in ancient Egypt were a lot like they were on GMBH and you have a couple of guys trying to give Pi away and nobody will touch it because they're perfectly happy with their 22/7, which obviously works fine for lots of things. It's just not the best that we're capable of, and I have no reason to think it was best they were capable of.

Anyway, yeah, we know you. Show us the papyrus. Therefore to use the very same criteria, the Great Pyramid was improvised because no blueprint can be produced that demonstrates premeditation.

God forbid we get you near the subject of Stonehenge because that too will have to have been improvised, because we certainly aren't likely to find you a papyrus that demonstrates any planning whatsoever went into that either. If it wasn't written down, it just never existed, end of story, right?

Sure, that's a great way to never lose an argument, to demand proofs you know you're most likely never going to get, but when is it your turn to be on the receiving end of that?

I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is 6 Pi feet. I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is (1/9) x (Pi^2) Royal Cubits. That's 10.96622711 Royal Cubits, not 11. Can you tell the difference? There is one.

I want you to prove to me that it's 11 Cubits. 1.715681818 to use Petrie's data - isn't a cubit in my book. I have enough cubits already, thanks. I have an important mathematical constant 1.715917826 in my book that probably merits more investigation for geodetic value, but I have yet to encounter an incentive to declare it or many other things an actual cubit value.

1.715681818 could be a cubit, there are countless cubits if I did like Egyptological types and round off to the nearest cubit without having to account for what that does to the length of a cubit, which is how Petrie managed to have such a menagerie of cubits that it allowed him to remain oblivious to the obvious use of the Remen in Egyptian architectural design.

As in the modern day where there is the need for metric standards to prevent an avalanche of different ways of looking at a given unit, there probably would have been a similar need in ancient times for metric standards, and I can't think of a better one than the exact geometric derivation of the consensus cubit value in feet.

Still trying my best to keep it down to one Royal Cubit, two Remens, and three Megalithic Yards here. Wish me luck keeping down the number of Palestine Cubits, I'll definitely need it.

I still haven't shown you a measuring rod or a papyrus proving they were aware of the modern foot to illuminate the Royal Cubit value thus, but I could ask what people think the diagonal of Chephren's pyramid is even if I disagree with them, and I have a round 216.0000000 feet as the intended height of Mycerinus' pyramid. These may not constitute proof of anything but they do look suspiciously like evidence.

Can you get out a papyrus or a pocket calculator and prove to me that the QC is 11 Cubits long, or is it even fair for me to ask you that if I'm already skeptical that you can deliver?

I was hoping we might be able to shed light on things looking at larger measures - I currently have it that the E-W distance between the apices of Chephren and Mycerinus' pyramids according to Petrie would probably be exactly 100 times the length of the Queen's Chamber, but I'm afraid the difference between 22/7 and Pi even at that scale is probably within a typical error margin for Petrie.

I can't prove that assessment either but I could tender as possible evidence that to regard the QC and Chephren-Mycerinus distances that way gives pleasing results in a number of metrologies using already established values even when demanding absolute precision.

Beyond that, as always I can only default to the idea that ancient architecture is meticulously designed, and that the parts should fit together coherently within in a rigid standard of accuracy. They should multiply and divide well, they should add and subtract well where applicable even for as mutually exclusive as those different operations may be. Their parts should show significant ratios between one another. They should probably frequently reference astronomy and geodesy to be convincing.

So what should we think of mathematics that can live up to all of those rigorous demands?

Do we think masterpieces like that just design themselves by accident?

Sadly, even this may not settle the issue, because 22/7 is Pi to .9995976620, while the standard of accuracy I've been able to establish is >.9995.

We might only be able to agree to disagree and see where our respective paths of inquiry take us and stop demanding proofs from one another that we should know it isn't reasonable to ask for.

I dunno, unless maybe someone is going to prove to me whether you can use their numbers at higher powers like I'm so often able to use mine, or whether the difference between 22/7 and Pi is going to become noticeable with exponential use by its impact on the numbers we should expect to see as output from that sort of application.

That's data capacity, and wanting to make any kind of statements through numbers incorporated into architecture is wanting to store data. What sort of math best serves that purpose?

Anyway, at the third power, the difference between 22/7 and Pi becomes

((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478

Their similarity seems to be plummeting here, from (22/7) / Pi = .9995976620 all the way down to ((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478, and at only the 3rd power.

Can you think of a way to use this to advantage in sorting out whether we have any examples of applications that can only work with Pi and not 22/7, as possible evidence that true Pi had to be used in the planning, even if it wasn't typical ancient Egyptian math?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02-Jan-20 21:47 by thinkitover.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 3195 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 03:26
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 549 drew 06-Feb-18 04:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 512 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 17:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 415 drew 06-Feb-18 23:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ???????????????? 476 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Feb-18 14:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 401 molder 08-Feb-18 05:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 399 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 06:43
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 400 DavidK 08-Feb-18 10:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 399 molder 08-Feb-18 11:56
linking egyptian Pi to imperial Pi 337 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 340 DavidK 08-Feb-18 13:58
cubit of 20.25? 306 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:12
where does Fibonacci Pi come from? 340 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:49
Re: cubit of 20.25? 398 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 15:08
Re: cubit of 20.25? 356 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:15
Re: cubit of 20.25? 357 molder 09-Feb-18 03:58
Mod Note > Off-Topic Posts 376 Dr. Troglodyte 09-Feb-18 16:38
Re: cubit of 20.25? 518 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 21:02
Oh...what a shame... 388 drew 09-Feb-18 00:33
Re: Oh...what a shame... 389 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 04:47
Re: Oh...what a shame... 409 drew 09-Feb-18 06:02
Re: Oh...what a shame... 411 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 13:28
Re: Oh...what a shame... 396 DavidK 22-Jun-18 05:58
Re: Oh...what a shame... 334 drew 22-Jun-18 09:54
Re: Oh...what a shame... 412 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 13:32
Re: Oh...what a shame... 490 drew 22-Jun-18 22:27
Re: Oh...what a shame... 361 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 01:48
Re: well put 333 drew 23-Jun-18 08:08
To put it bluntly! 376 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 12:40
Re: well put 354 Manu 23-Jun-18 18:33
Re: extensions of numbers 308 drew 24-Jun-18 00:40
Re: extensions of numbers 365 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 04:50
Re: extensions of numbers 319 drew 24-Jun-18 08:36
Re: extensions of numbers 310 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:22
Re: extensions of numbers 313 drew 24-Jun-18 20:53
Re: extensions of numbers 313 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:06
Re: extensions of numbers 290 DavidK 25-Jun-18 16:13
Re: extensions of numbers 297 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:46
the primitive calculator 295 drew 25-Jun-18 23:23
Re: the primitive calculator 350 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 02:24
Re: the primitive calculator 282 drew 26-Jun-18 07:06
Mod Note > Duplicate Post Removed 352 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Jun-18 12:45
Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 350 rodz111 26-Jun-18 13:55
Re: Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 251 drew 27-Jun-18 05:18
Re: the primitive calculator 324 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:00
Re: the primitive calculator 314 drew 27-Jun-18 00:01
Re: the primitive calculator 310 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 00:18
Re: the primitive calculator 284 drew 27-Jun-18 01:56
Re: well put 273 cloister 24-Jun-18 09:43
Re: well put 313 Manu 24-Jun-18 12:59
Re: well put 299 cloister 24-Jun-18 18:14
Re: well put 358 cloister 29-Jun-18 08:48
Re: well put 288 drew 27-Jun-18 05:11
Re: Oh...what a shame... 353 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 12:21
Re: Oh...what a shame... 383 molder 23-Jun-18 00:24
Re: Oh...what a shame... 364 DavidK 23-Jun-18 21:06
Re: Oh...what a shame... 322 DavidK 24-Jun-18 07:41
Understanding the differences! 320 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:50
No pie for jacob 359 DavidK 24-Jun-18 08:54
Re: No pie for jacob 298 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:44
Re: No pie for jacob 325 DavidK 25-Jun-18 20:21
Re: No pie for jacob 328 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 23:19
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 285 molder 26-Jun-18 00:51
Re: what value for pi? 288 drew 26-Jun-18 14:11
Re: what value for pi? 334 molder 26-Jun-18 21:30
Re: what value for pi? 286 drew 26-Jun-18 23:42
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 275 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 14:55
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 330 molder 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 326 DavidK 26-Jun-18 10:34
Re: No pie for jacob 286 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 15:02
Re: No pie for jacob 286 DavidK 26-Jun-18 16:46
Re: No pie for jacob 293 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:12
Re: No pie for jacob 321 DavidK 26-Jun-18 18:58
Re: No pie for jacob 332 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 22:59
Re: No pie for jacob 281 DUNE 26-Jun-18 19:52
Re: No pie for jacob 285 DavidK 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 286 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 23:10
Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 297 DavidK 27-Jun-18 05:37
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 323 drew 27-Jun-18 06:16
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 297 DavidK 27-Jun-18 10:25
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 310 drew 27-Jun-18 21:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 354 rodz111 25-Jun-18 17:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 327 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 19:54
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 297 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 318 molder 26-Jun-18 03:19
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 314 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 310 molder 26-Jun-18 21:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 361 rodz111 28-Jun-18 07:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 306 drew 28-Jun-18 09:56
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 337 rodz111 28-Jun-18 11:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 325 drew 28-Jun-18 17:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 340 DavidK 28-Jun-18 20:00
Tripping over museum rods 338 drew 28-Jun-18 23:52
Museum rods 303 drew 29-Jun-18 00:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 327 rodz111 29-Jun-18 00:37
You're as much as a complainer as anyone but you're not... 318 drew 29-Jun-18 01:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 388 rodz111 30-Jun-18 01:21
You down and dirty so-n-so 324 drew 27-Jun-18 05:29
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 271 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 08:17
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 265 drew 27-Jun-18 09:49
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 402 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 17:12
The math or the pyramid? 340 drew 27-Jun-18 20:46
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 258 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:04
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 281 Sirfiroth 17-Jul-18 23:16
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 274 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 381 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 10:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 297 molder 19-Jul-18 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 344 Sirfiroth 19-Jul-18 12:05
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 466 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 23:57
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 325 DavidK 20-Jul-18 08:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 376 spaceyhippie 20-Jul-18 21:58
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 259 DavidK 22-Jul-18 09:41
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 364 spaceyhippie 23-Jul-18 02:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 298 DavidK 23-Jul-18 08:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 320 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 13:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 292 DavidK 23-Jul-18 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 447 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 23:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 310 DavidK 24-Jul-18 09:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 259 Sirfiroth 24-Jul-18 13:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 249 DavidK 27-Jul-18 06:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 287 Sirfiroth 27-Jul-18 15:45
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 348 spaceyhippie 24-Jul-18 02:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 356 DavidK 24-Jul-18 17:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 408 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 00:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 319 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 14:36
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 439 spaceyhippie 29-Jul-18 11:01
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 320 DavidK 06-Aug-18 19:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 294 DavidK 07-Aug-18 05:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 298 spaceyhippie 08-Aug-18 09:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 305 DavidK 08-Aug-18 09:39
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 334 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 02:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 362 DavidK 09-Aug-18 08:00
ROTFLMAO! 255 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 13:22
Re: ROTFLMAO! 260 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:12
Re: ROTFLMAO! 313 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 14:28
Re: ROTFLMAO! 248 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:49
Re: ROTFLMAO! 254 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 15:03
Re: ROTFLMAO! 270 DavidK 09-Aug-18 21:39
Re: ROTFLMAO! 294 Sirfiroth 10-Aug-18 02:06
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 309 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 20:40
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 364 DavidK 10-Aug-18 07:59
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 371 Steve Clayton 12-Aug-18 18:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 154 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 141 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 03:46
Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 155 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 04:59
Re: Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 130 molder 28-Dec-19 10:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 128 DavidK 28-Dec-19 10:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 138 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 151 Thanos5150 28-Dec-19 16:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 146 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 21:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 144 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 135 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 02:17
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 139 molder 29-Dec-19 04:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 132 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 12:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 131 molder 29-Dec-19 22:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 124 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 14:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 171 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 15:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 130 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 03:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 175 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-19 04:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 148 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 15:04
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 155 spaceyhippie 31-Dec-19 23:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 149 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:29
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 136 DavidK 29-Dec-19 09:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 138 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 14:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 139 spaceyhippie 01-Jan-20 23:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 152 Sirfiroth 02-Jan-20 01:33
Pi vs Pudding 142 thinkitover 02-Jan-20 21:45
Re: Pi vs Pudding 133 spaceyhippie 03-Jan-20 00:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 149 seasmith 03-Jan-20 00:24
Re: Pi vs Pudding 133 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 23:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 176 seasmith 08-Jan-20 02:54
Re: Pi vs Pudding 142 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 03:36
Re: Pi vs Pudding 142 molder 03-Jan-20 06:56
Re: Pi vs Pudding 144 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 18:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 135 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:02
LOL, now that was hilarious ! 135 Sirfiroth 04-Jan-20 05:51
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 176 hendrik dirker 04-Jan-20 09:32
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 124 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:37
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 133 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:39
Re: Pi vs Pudding 153 molder 04-Jan-20 11:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 144 Sirfiroth 05-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi vs Pudding 135 molder 06-Jan-20 02:55
Re: Pi vs Pudding 165 magisterchessmutt 06-Jan-20 02:58
Re: Pi vs Pudding 128 molder 06-Jan-20 05:26
Re: Pi vs Pudding 133 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 01:32
Re: Pi vs Pudding 121 DavidK 07-Jan-20 02:02
Re: Pi vs Pudding 136 thinkitover 06-Jan-20 06:13
Re: Pi vs Pudding 151 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 02:18
Re: Pi vs Pudding 119 DavidK 07-Jan-20 14:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 132 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 15:16
Re: Pi vs Pudding 131 DavidK 07-Jan-20 19:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 126 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 20:08
Re: Pi vs Pudding 125 DavidK 07-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 153 DavidK 28-Dec-19 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 148 engbren 28-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 148 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:55
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 136 engbren 29-Dec-19 01:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 136 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 16:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 138 engbren 30-Dec-19 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 194 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 23:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 160 engbren 31-Dec-19 11:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 141 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:42


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