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charly Wrote:
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> > > > > > > > > Audrey Wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Even if every mastaba were
> > > originally
> > > > a
> > > > > > > tomb,
> > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > would that show that the
> pyramids
> > > > were
> > > > > > > tombs?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The pyramid evolved from the
> > mastaba;
> > > > > > > Djoser's
> > > > > > > > > original mastaba evolved into a
> > > stepped
> > > > > > > mastaba
> > > > > > > > > and then with Sekhemkhet a square
> > > > > grounplan
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > used thus creating the first step
> > > > > pyramid.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You mean like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > SC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not at all, a comparison between a
> > church
> > > > > > steeple
> > > > > > > and a skyscraper is totally
> meaningless
> > > and
> > > > > has
> > > > > > > nothing to do with the fact that
> > Djoser's
> > > > > > monument
> > > > > > > evolved from a mastaba into a stepped
> > > > > mastaba.
> > > > > > Or
> > > > > > > do you deny this fact?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't deny that you have claimed it
> as
> > a
> > > > fact.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > have yet to see it proven so.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ancient Egyptian kings were buried in
> > > mastaba
> > > > > > tombs BEFORE the great pyramid-building
> > age
> > > > and
> > > > > > AFTER it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shepseskhaf was buried in a mastaba-like
> > tomb,
> > >
> > > >
> > > > It's actually questionable whether
> Shepseskaf
> > > was
> > > > actually buried in the mastaba attributed
> to
> > > him
> > > > but we'll let that one slide. If he was
> then
> > > > yes--because mastabas WERE tombs.
> > > >
> > > > > but then it's again pyramids,
> > > >
> > > > Which WEREN'T tombs.
> > >
> > > They were; you just claim they weren't.
> > >
> >
> > No. I don't actually claim that. It is what the
> > evidence 'claims'. The Coptic-Egyptian
> > texts claim they were constructed as 'Recovery
> > Vaults' (or 'Arks' if you prefer). They tell us
> > only that the king (Surid) placed everything
> > within the pyramids (along with the bodies of
> the
> > ancestor kings) in order to ensure the recovery
> or
> > rebirth of the kingdom after the deluge had
> > abated. I fully expect that you will dismiss
> those
> > texts just as Egyptology generally does with
> > anything that runs contrary to its dogma.
> > Dismissing these texts won't make them wrong.
> And
> > placing bodies of the ancestor kings does not
> make
> > the pyramids tombs, at least not in the
> > conventional sense since only the Great
> > Pyramid would have been used for this purpose.
> See
> > my GHMB article here:
> >
> Hall
> > of the Ancients
.
>
> Like Martin already said, you choose to believe
> ancient Coptic folklore; you claim this is
> evidence.
> If one has to choose between evidence from solid
> Egyptological research or "believing" Coptic
> Folklore the choice is easy!
>

As I said to you in another post--I am quite certain had those Coptic-Egyptian texts stated these pyramids were conceived as tombs, Egyptology would have had little problem citing them. It is only because they run contrary to the view of Wgyptology that they are dismissed. The FACT is, this Coptic-Egyptian tradition states the pyramids were built as 'recovery vaults' or 'arks'. You can disagree with what they say but that won't make what they say wrong. For that to happen then Eyptology must present much better proof that these pyramids were conceived and constructed as tombs for AE kings.


> > > There are at least two kings
> > > > who have both mastaba tombs and,
> supposedly,
> > > > pyramid tombs. Furthermore, the 5th/6th Dyn
> > > > pyramids were built for the Ka of
> the
> > > King
> > > > and for very good reason. Built for his KA
> --
> > > NOT
> > > > his actual body.
> > >
> > > Not his body? Why burial chambers with
> > sarcophagi,
> >
> > Because they're not "burial chambers" and
> they're
> > not "sarcophagi". Look at the QRSW of Khufu's
> > children (Khafre's siblings) which we find in
> > their Mastabas (i.e. tombs). They are all
> > inscribed with their names and titulary. Some
> are
> > even decorated. That is NOT what we find in the
> > stone boxes in the Gizamids. There we find
> rough,
> > uninscribed, anonymous boxes. And in the case
> of
> > G2 the stone box there was found by Belzoni in
> > 1818 to contain a great quantity of earth and
> some
> > bull bones. NO MUMMY. We find later dynasties
> > during the Festival of Khoiak also preparing
> small
> > replica boxes (wooden, stone or fired) filled
> with
> > earth, placed into the ground with a large rock
> > (symbolising the pyramid) placed on top. The
> point
> > here is to demonstrate to you that the AEs of
> > later dynasties clearly understood what those
> > earth-filled boxes were for--they were part of
> a
> > deep chthonic ritual relating to the rebirth of
> > the EARTH. These earth-filled stone boxes were
> > neb-ankh, they were not QRSW.
>
> No Scott, the typology of sarcophagi is well known
> and has nothing to do with the later small replica
> boxes. You simply make this unsuported claim.
>

Sure. A completely anonymous, earth-filled stone box within a pyramid has no correlation whatsoever with smaller, anonymous earth-filled boxes placed under a large rock? Seriously? We are told in the Pyramid Texts that "this pyramid is Osiris... the construction [of the pyramid] is Osiris" i.e. the pyramids were regarded as the 'body of Osiris'. We are told by the Coptic-Egyptian texts that the pyramids were conceived and built as 'Recovery Vaults' which would, naturally, have involved the storage of various seed types including grain. So--what do we have here with these first pyramids? They were the "body of Osiris" (PTs) and were filled with grain (Coptic-Egyptian tradition). Which explains another piece of evidence--the so-called 'Corn Mummies'. These were effigies of the god Osiris usually made of mud with a cavity within the effigy that was filled with grain--the 'body of Osiris' filled with grain just like the pyramid 'body of Osiris' had likewise been filled with grain. This religious re-enactment of the chthonic recovery of the earth tells us very clearly how the AEs of this period viewed the function of their pyramids--they help ensure the recovery/rebirth of the earth.

> > > PT's and funerary equipment?
> >
> > There are no PTs in the great pyramids. Of 138
> > pyramids in Egypt only 8 pyramids have PTs and
> > they appeared within a short period in the
> 5th-6th
> > dynasties. What funerary equipment was found in
> > the giant pyramids (the stone box is not a
> > sarcophagus)?
>
> There are no stone boxes in pyramids that aren't
> sarcophagi, they are the product of your
> immagination.
>

No. Go read for yourself what Belzoni discovered in G2. That has nothing to do with my imagination however much you wish to make it.

> > > BTW, I thought they were part of your seed
> > vault
> > > story, must be mistaken then.
> > >
> >
> > Of course they are. An earth-filled stone box
> with
> > some bull bones is strongly indicative of a
> > chthonic ritual desiring the rebirth of the
> earth
> > (the kingdom). The bull bones symbolised the
> > fecundity of the earth. And, as I have said
> above,
> > this chthonic ritual was practiced by later
> > dynasties using their own, smaller replica
> > earth-filled boxes which they buried below a
> large
> > rock.
>
> see above
>

Ditto.

> > > > Saff-tombs for the 11th
> > > > > dyn and then again pyramids untill the
> > switch
> > > > to
> > > > > rock-cut tombs in the NK.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, tombs.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Simply because the base of the first
> > > > > > pyramid built looks like a mastaba and
> > has
> > > > > several
> > > > > > mastaba-looking steps creating a step
> > > pyramid
> > > > > > shape does not mean and should not mean
> > > that
> > > > > the
> > > > > > step pyramid was intended as a tomb.
> > > > >
> > > > > The royal tomb chamber with it's burial
> > vault
> > > > and
> > > > > the galleries containing the remains of
> > > > sarcofagi
> > > > > and skeletons of members of the royal
> > family,
> > > > are
> > > > > more than a subbtle hint that Djoser's
> > > pyramid
> > > > was
> > > > > intended as a tomb.
> > > > >
> > > > If the Step Pyramid was (stupidly) used as
> a
> > > tomb
> > > > by Djoser does not mean it was CONCEIVED
> and
> > > BUILT
> > > > as a tomb.
> > >
> > > Yes it was, it's very clear from an
> > architectural
> > > analysis that the Step Pyramid complex
> combines
> > > the architecture of a typical 2nd dyn royal
> > tomb
> > > with that of a 2nd dyn funerary enclosure
> into
> > one
> > > structure.
> > >
> >
> > And a church has similar architectural features
> to
> > the Empire State Building. And because of that,
> by
> > your logic, they must serve the same function.
> I
> > beg to differ.
> >
> > > Do you not understand the difference?
> > > > Can you explain why the remains of what is
> > > beieved
> > > > to be a foot of Djoser is around 1,000
> years
> > > > younger than Djoser?
> > >
> > > It is not believed to be a foot of Djoser but
> > an
> > > intrusive burial from a later period.
> > >
> >
> > You claimed earlier it was a "royal" burial.
> Now
> > it's not even Djoser. Which intrusive "royal"
> > burial was it then?
>
> Never claimed the remains of the intrusive burial
> were royal.
>

Here is what you said:
Quote

Charly: ...skeletons of members of the royal family, are more than a subbtle hint that Djoser's pyramid was intended as a tomb."

So if not this foot, what "skeletons of members of the royal family" are you talking about? Let's see this evidence?

>
> > > > > That's like
> > > > > > saying the similar looking church
> > building
> > > > > evolved
> > > > > > into a sky-scraper. Their functions are
> > > very
> > > > > > different and THAT'S the point. Just
> > > because
> > > > > there
> > > > > > are similarities does not mean and
> should
> > > not
> > > > > mean
> > > > > > that their function was the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unless there are so much similarities
> that
> > a
> > > > same
> > > > > function becomes undeniable.
> > > >
> > > > Define "so much similarities"? How many
> > exactly
> > > > and what are they?
> > >
> > > Pyramids contain burial chambers,
> >
> > You say "Burial chambers". I say "recovery
> > vaults". There's more evidence backing my
> > argument.
>
> Only in your dreams I guess, just like Cladking's
> are filled with geysers.
> That's what happens when you replace evidence with
> fantasy.

Attempting to rubbish my argument by creating a false equivalence and strawman with another theory simply will not wash. The Recovery Vault theory better explains the extant evidence than does the tomb theory. And that's not my imagination--it is a statement of fact.

>
> > security
> > > measures
> >
> > Really? Frst of all, you think placing a king
> > (whose body had to be made secure at all costs
> to
> > ensure the continued well-being of the country)
> in
> > the most visible structure imaginable, that
> could
> > be seen by tomb raiders in all directions up to
> 30
> > or 40 miles distant, was a secure burial place?
> > No--the first rule of a secure burial is that
> you
> > simply do not mark the grave site--something
> Khufu
> > knew very well because it is what he apparently
> > did for his own mother. But, oddly, not for
> > himself? Of course, as a 'recovery vault' this
> is
> > PRECISELY the kind of structure you
> would
> > need.
>
> Powerfull god-kings that didn't want to mark their
> grave site? Strange reasoning, since powerfull
> rulers throughout history wanted a fancy tomb,
> chinese emperors, roman emperors, hell even modern
> day didctators.

Again, another false equivalence. Equating AE god-kings to other rulers and cultures around the world simply will not wash. The bodies of AE kings had to be preserved from decay in order that their Ka had a home for without this then the Ka and Ba could not unite creating Akh, the regenerative power needed to esure the well-being of the kingdom. This is to say that, even in death, the deceed Osirian kings served a vital role in assiting the living Horus king in ensuring the well-being of the kingdom. In ancient Egypt it was imperative to preserve and PROTECT the deceased king's body. This was not so in other world cultures. In other words--it makes little sense to place a king whose body must be protected at all costs in the most visible and easily found tomb anyone could imagine. Given the vital role of a deceased ancient Egyptian king, quite the opposite would be expected. Not so much in other world cultures.

> Besides, before the first intermediate period no
> large scale tomb robbing took place. It's not a
> coïncidence that Middle Kingdom pyramids
> developped extra security measures such as fake
> burial chambers and massive vaults.
>

All straight from the big book of pyramid orthodoxy. As I said to you in another post--orthodoxy often cites the building of the pyramids as offering a more secure burial structure than the mastaba. So why, if the mastabas were undisturbed until the FIP did the kings of these early dynastoes require a pyramid tomb?

>
> > Secondly--the Descending Passage was never
> blocked
> > thereby inviting entry into the body of the
> > structure. If this truly was a tomb then I am
> > absolutely convinced that this passage would
> have
> > been totally blocked, preventing any entry to
> the
> > super-structure of the pyramid. This is,
> afterall,
> > what Khufu did with the passgae entrance to his
> > mother's tomb at Giza. This action, this LACK
> of
> > security, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
> for
> > the tomb of a king but makes perfect sense as a
> > 'recovery vault'.
> > Thirdly--just to the east of the GP we find
> > underground passages (known as the 'Trial
> > Passages') which mimic the internal passage
> > architecture of the GP--a 'map' if you like.
> > Again--why on earth would an AE king provide
> tomb
> > raiders with a handy 'map' of the internal
> > arrangement of his so-called 'tomb'? And yet
> > again, as a 'recovery vault' this 'map' makes
> > perfect sense.
> >
> > Fourthly--why was the 'Granite Leaf' left in
> place
> > in the Ante Chamber to the so-called 'burial
> > chamber'? This block of stone could have easily
> > been used as a counter-weight to raise up the
> > three blocking stones which prevented easy
> access
> > to the main chamber. This is akin to leaving
> the
> > key in the lock of your front door. Hardly a
> > rigorous security measure. But once again--as
> > 'recovery vaults' this makes perfect sense. You
> > want people (survisors of the deluge) to have
> > relatively easy access to the recovery cache.
>
> All your interpretations, have been discussed in
> other threads, that not everyone agrees with your
> views goes without saying.
>

This is nothing but evasion. The facts above stand for themselves and every one of them stands firmly against the notion that a pyramid was a desired and secure burial place for a king whose body had to be protected at all costs.

> > >and sarcophagi just like mastaba tombs,
> >
> > No. See above. The stone boxes found in the
> > Gizamids are nothing like those found in tombs
> > (mastabas).
>
> As above, the typology and evolution of sarcophagi
> is well known. "Stone boxes" are a product of your
> immagination.
>

Ditto above.

Khufu's children and Khafre's siblings all had ther names and titles inscribed on their QRSW (sarcophagus) and yet their father (Khufu) and Khafre (brother) didn't? Given the neb (name) would have assisted the Ka in finding the right tomb and body, why didn't the priests place Khufu's and Khafre's name and titles on their so-called sarcophagi? It was have been more important to do this for the King's QRSW than that of his children/siblings? And yet we find the precise opposite is the case.

> > > and are mostly surrounded by other tombs.
> >
> > A church is built. Then some grand mausoleums
> and
> > graves appear around the church. What you are
> > arguing is that the Church was also conceived as
> a
> > tomb, the biggest in the graveyard. It wasn't.
>
> But the most important people had tombs IN the
> church.

This wasn't aways so, especially not in earlier times.

> The pyramid complex contains temples, where
> ceromonies were held. You could say that each
> pyramid had it's own "church"
>

I think I said this myself eralier. Yes--the Recovery Vault would probably have had a cult of rebirth associated with it for the desired recovery of the earth after the deluge in a similar way the sun temples were built to bring about the rebirth of the sun each and every day.


> > > Pyramids that weren't tombs such as the
> "seven
> > > provincial step pyramids" didn't have
> chambers.
> > >
> >
> > Of course they weren't. So why build them?
>
> Why not?
>

More evasion.

> And why
> > build cenotaph pyramids?
>
> Why not?
>

More evasion.

> Because mainstream
> > Egyptology can find no other way to explain why
> an
> > AE king would require more than one pyramid.
>
> Not at all, AE required only one pyramid for
> burial.
> the exeptions:
> 1) Sneferu who wanted a true pyramid at all costs
> and that didn't work out as planned so he eneded
> up with 3.
>
We've discussed Sneferu elsewhere already. He actually built 4, not 3. The facts simply do not stack up witht he orthodox explanation. Why, for example, did Sneferu continue to build the Bent Pyramid long after its 'defect' would have been seen? If the desire was to build a true pyramid then common sense would have him halt the construction of the Bent, use the stones there as a quarry to carry out his conversion of Meidum and for the construction of the Red. Of course, if your desire is simply to construct as many Recovery Vaults in your lifetme as you posible can then it makes perfect sense to continue completing the Bent and then pnwards t the Red.

2) Amememhat III: stability problems similar to
> the Bent, so constructed a second.
>

Irrelevant. His pyramid constructions would not have been part of the original Recovery System. These pyramids, in terms of their size and construction, were quite dissimilar to the early, giant pyramids. Certainly I suspect they were built as the 'body of Osiris' for the Ka (not the body). As I mentioned elsewhere, the pyramid as the 'body of Osiris' would serve as the Ka Double for the king--but not his actual tomb.

> All, the rest, just one pyramid.
>

Not part of the original Recovery System so irrelevant. See above.

> Again
> > the 'recovery vault' theory makes much better
> > sense of this practice of AE kings building
> > several pyramids.
>
> Just your opinion Scott, but I understand since
> you're an author and want to sell your own ideas
> versus those of Egyptology.
>

You're the first to mention my authorship here. And I'm entitled to my opinion. And yes--you're entitled to disagree. What you are NOT entitled to do is claim facts exist where they clearly don't.

> > > > > Your church building - sky-scraper
> > comparison
> > > > is
> > > > > still a meaningless one in this context.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, it's not. It is designed to show how we
> > can
> > > > easily see something and jump to
> conclusions.
> > > Just
> > > > because something LOOKS similar doesn;t
> mean
> > > they
> > > > were intended to BE similar or have the
> same
> > > > intended function.
> > >
> > > In case of the "seven provincial step
> pyramid"
> > > this is correct, for the other pyramids it's
> > quite
> > > different.
> > >
> >
> > Deflection. We're not talking about similar
> > pyramids but rather your belief in the
> Egyptology
> > claim of the mastaba evolving into a pyramid.
> Just
> > because elements look similar doesn't
> necessarily
> > mean the functions of the structures were the
> > same.
>
> Deflection? Not at all. And it's a bit more than
> mstaba evolving into a pyramid; it's the combining
> of the 2nd dyn royal tomb and the 2nd dyn funerary
> enclosure into one structure that led to
> developpement of the pyramid.
>
> > > If you want to prove the
> > > > pyramids were conceived as tombs for the
> > burial
> > > of
> > > > AE kings then you will have to produce much
> > > better
> > > > evidence than this.
> > >
> > > Don't need to, has been done already ;-)
> > >
> >
> > Well it must be in your imagination because I
> see
> > nothing concrete from you.
>
> A lot of people sat that of you Scott.
>

Irrelevant. You are being asked to present solid evidence that the first pyramids were conceived as tombs. Something that kinda looks like an evolution does not make the end function the same.

> And I'm not alone here
> > in saying that.
>
> Well, this message board attacts a big Fringe
> crowd, so that goes without saying.
>

And each and every one of us ask the same--where's your evidence? Simply saying it's there, that you've presented it will not cut it for those of us who are not so willing to accept fluff as evidence.

> > > > > > The simple fact of the matter is that
> if
> > in
> > > > > > ancient times, without iron or steel, I
> > > > wanted
> > > > > to
> > > > > > build a very tall structure for
> WHATEVER
> > > > > REASON,
> > > > > > then, by necessity, it would have to
> take
> > > the
> > > > > form
> > > > > > of a pyramid shape as this shape is the
> > > most
> > > > > > naturally stable shape to build without
> > > iron
> > > > or
> > > > > > steel. And in the early stages I would
> > most
> > > > > likely
> > > > > > begin with a step pyramid until I had
> > > > > sufficient
> > > > > > skill and experience to figure out how
> to
> > > > > smooth
> > > > > > out the sides.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mastabas were tombs and were for
> burial.
> > > > > Mastaba
> > > > > > tombs contained QRSW, pyramids didn't.
> > > > Pyramids
> > > > > > were for something else altogether.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SC
> > > > >
> > > > > Not sure what the abbreviation QRSW
> means.
> > > >
> > > > QRSW is but one AE word for 'sarcophagus'.
> > > >
> > > > SC
> > >
> > > Sarcophagi have been found in most pyramids,
> so
> > > your statement is totally incorrect.
> >
> > Define what you mean by 'sarcophagi'? The AE
> had
> > three different words for stone boxes and
> > Egyptology, rather conveniently, labels them
> all
> > as sarcophagi. A stone box in a pyramid does
> not
> > mean it is meant for the burial of a person.
> (See
> > above).
>
> Yes it does, you make up stone boxes (see above)
>

It doesn't. A stone, earth-filled box is NOT a sarcophagus however much you try to insist it is.

> > > I almost forgot that you try (in vain) to
> > > transform them into "Osiris-beds", which are
> > > completly different things.
> >
> > They are neb-ankh. The earth-filled stone box
> > found by Belzoni in G2 in 1818 is a rather fine
> > example. THAT is what you call EVIDENCE.
> >
> > SC
>
> It's an example of a sarcofagus that got filled
> with rubbish and debris, nothing more. Which means
> your evidence = rubbish.

An earth-filled stone box (with fragments of bull bones) might be "rubbish" to you and Belzoni but I am sure they were absolutely vital to the ancients who placed them there. Once again--the proof that this earth-filled stone box was original to the tomb is evidenced by the later AE tradition of creating replicas during the Festival of Khoiak. The mimicking of this earth-filled box in G2 with small replicas tells us that the AEs of these later dynaties knew precisely what had been placed in the stone boxes in the Gizamids. And it clearly wasn't the mummy of an AE king.

SC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07-Jan-18 18:03 by Scott Creighton.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Plausible functions of the great pyramid 2313 Nemobutwhatiimagian 04-Jan-18 19:10
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 502 Nemobutwhatiimagian 04-Jan-18 19:15
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 447 Barbelo 04-Jan-18 20:29
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 306 theoferrum 11-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 306 Nemobutwhatiimagian 05-Jan-18 12:53
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 344 D-Archer 05-Jan-18 13:25
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 304 Nemobutwhatiimagian 05-Jan-18 14:24
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 294 Pifaaso 05-Jan-18 14:58
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 268 MBeeler 07-Jan-18 05:14
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 358 M. J. Thomas 05-Jan-18 14:47
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 366 Jon Ellison 05-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 278 M. J. Thomas 05-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 310 Jon Ellison 05-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 298 M. J. Thomas 05-Jan-18 22:08
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 329 Jon Ellison 05-Jan-18 22:16
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 356 M. J. Thomas 06-Jan-18 00:59
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 286 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 08:40
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 265 Nemobutwhatiimagian 06-Jan-18 19:08
Re: Function in plain sight! 332 Thunderbird 07-Jan-18 19:12
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 305 Corpuscles 05-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 270 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:36
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 288 Jon Ellison 05-Jan-18 21:30
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 212 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:50
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 319 charly 06-Jan-18 11:19
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 215 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 14:04
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 221 charly 06-Jan-18 15:00
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 216 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 19:50
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 181 charly 06-Jan-18 20:55
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 222 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 21:28
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 203 charly 06-Jan-18 21:52
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 172 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 21:58
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 229 charly 06-Jan-18 22:11
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 294 Scott Creighton 06-Jan-18 21:52
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 209 charly 06-Jan-18 23:04
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 217 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 23:14
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 238 Scott Creighton 07-Jan-18 10:10
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 235 theoferrum 12-Jan-18 07:05
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 283 Martin Stower 12-Jan-18 12:04
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 214 Nemobutwhatiimagian 13-Jan-18 10:49
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 188 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:28
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 220 Martin Stower 13-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 195 cladking 13-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 283 Nemobutwhatiimagian 08-Jan-18 19:04
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 239 Scott Creighton 06-Jan-18 14:28
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 235 charly 06-Jan-18 14:49
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 276 Scott Creighton 06-Jan-18 15:29
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 218 charly 06-Jan-18 21:35
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 191 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 216 charly 06-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 173 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 192 charly 06-Jan-18 22:43
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 204 Jon Ellison 06-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 199 Nemobutwhatiimagian 13-Jan-18 11:13
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 264 Scott Creighton 06-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 268 charly 07-Jan-18 09:20
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 280 Scott Creighton 07-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 178 Merrell 07-Jan-18 12:18
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 224 Scott Creighton 07-Jan-18 13:23
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 250 charly 07-Jan-18 14:17
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 209 cladking 07-Jan-18 15:00
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 191 Scott Creighton 07-Jan-18 15:11
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 312 charly 07-Jan-18 15:55
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 230 Scott Creighton 07-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 278 Corpuscles 07-Jan-18 17:28
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 215 Scott Creighton 07-Jan-18 18:52
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 342 Martin Stower 07-Jan-18 19:27
SC deflection 238 Corpuscles 08-Jan-18 23:00
I must be doing something right, too. n/t 249 cladking 09-Jan-18 02:01
Re:Sneferu and his pyramids 315 charly 09-Jan-18 09:32
Re: Re:Sneferu and his pyramids 245 Scott Creighton 10-Jan-18 13:26
Re: SC deflection 275 Scott Creighton 09-Jan-18 15:04
Re: SC deflection 296 Martin Stower 09-Jan-18 16:59
Re: SC deflection 216 Corpuscles 09-Jan-18 23:23
Re: SC deflection 257 Scott Creighton 10-Jan-18 10:22
Re: SC deflection 232 Martin Stower 10-Jan-18 11:56
Re: SC deflection 234 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:25
Re: SC deflection 243 Martin Stower 10-Jan-18 15:47
Re: SC deflection 248 cladking 10-Jan-18 17:05
Re: SC deflection 209 Open mind 10-Jan-18 17:14
Re: SC deflection 200 cladking 10-Jan-18 17:41
Ramps? 234 Scott Creighton 11-Jan-18 10:57
Re: SC deflection 192 Martin Stower 11-Jan-18 20:46
Re: SC deflection 210 cladking 11-Jan-18 21:12
Re: SC deflection 232 Corpuscles 11-Jan-18 01:17
Re: SC deflection 223 Open mind 11-Jan-18 04:07
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 196 Martin Stower 07-Jan-18 18:40
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 250 eyeofhorus33 09-Jan-18 21:05
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 219 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:41
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 246 Corpuscles 10-Jan-18 00:31
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 170 cladking 10-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 189 Scott Creighton 10-Jan-18 09:47
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 268 Merrell 10-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 220 eyeofhorus33 10-Jan-18 17:29
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 231 Scott Creighton 11-Jan-18 11:26
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 271 Martin Stower 11-Jan-18 15:00
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 246 eyeofhorus33 11-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 224 cladking 11-Jan-18 18:51
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 232 Martin Stower 11-Jan-18 19:32
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 187 eyeofhorus33 11-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 193 cladking 11-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 239 Martin Stower 11-Jan-18 21:17
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 320 cladking 12-Jan-18 01:00
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 208 eyeofhorus33 12-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 189 cladking 12-Jan-18 19:08
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 167 eyeofhorus33 12-Jan-18 20:44
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 182 cladking 12-Jan-18 21:26
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 204 eyeofhorus33 12-Jan-18 22:33
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 206 cladking 12-Jan-18 22:55
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 206 Corpuscles 12-Jan-18 23:25
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 192 cladking 13-Jan-18 00:59
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 181 Martin Stower 13-Jan-18 01:38
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 198 Martin Stower 12-Jan-18 23:37
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 183 cladking 13-Jan-18 00:52
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 223 Martin Stower 13-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 209 cladking 13-Jan-18 03:50
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 208 Corpuscles 12-Jan-18 23:04
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 269 Scott Creighton 12-Jan-18 10:39
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 185 eyeofhorus33 13-Jan-18 07:45
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 264 Scott Creighton 13-Jan-18 11:31
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 204 Martin Stower 13-Jan-18 12:31
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 191 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:03
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 202 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:17
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 240 eyeofhorus33 13-Jan-18 18:29
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 219 cladking 13-Jan-18 20:00
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 178 Martin Stower 13-Jan-18 21:27
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 186 cladking 13-Jan-18 21:34
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 227 eyeofhorus33 14-Jan-18 00:00
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 213 cladking 14-Jan-18 01:27
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 251 Nemobutwhatiimagian 09-Jan-18 17:55
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 217 Martin Stower 07-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 247 cladking 07-Jan-18 15:12
Sam: act 3 scene 2 190 Warwick 09-Jan-18 16:58
Re: Sam: act 3 scene 2 214 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:36
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 254 charly 07-Jan-18 15:17
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 174 cladking 07-Jan-18 15:50
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 194 Scott Creighton 07-Jan-18 18:02
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 274 Thanos5150 08-Jan-18 00:02
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 276 Martin Stower 08-Jan-18 10:33
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 246 Scott Creighton 08-Jan-18 10:47
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 244 Martin Stower 08-Jan-18 11:31
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 279 charly 08-Jan-18 13:18
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 264 Martin Stower 08-Jan-18 14:35
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 285 Scott Creighton 09-Jan-18 11:33
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 204 charly 09-Jan-18 13:59
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 190 cladking 09-Jan-18 14:34
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 204 Scott Creighton 09-Jan-18 15:54
the Root of the tree 205 Warwick 09-Jan-18 17:09
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 261 charly 09-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 182 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 196 Thanos5150 09-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 264 Scott Creighton 10-Jan-18 08:42
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 212 Thanos5150 08-Jan-18 21:00
Rubbish! 220 Warwick 09-Jan-18 17:23
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 248 Martin Stower 09-Jan-18 18:02
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 206 Warwick 09-Jan-18 19:03
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 213 Thanos5150 09-Jan-18 22:35
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 243 Martin Stower 10-Jan-18 18:30
just to be clear... 240 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:40
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 179 cladking 07-Jan-18 15:08
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 241 charly 07-Jan-18 16:03
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 176 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:27
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 218 Martin Stower 07-Jan-18 12:39
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 256 Audrey 07-Jan-18 07:04
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 261 Thanos5150 06-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 237 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Plausible (?) functions of the great pyramid 212 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 23:34
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 312 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 15:03
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 264 cladking 05-Jan-18 17:32
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 278 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 17:45
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 285 Jon Ellison 05-Jan-18 18:01
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 235 cladking 05-Jan-18 18:50
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 262 Nemobutwhatiimagian 14-Jan-18 09:26
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 224 Nemobutwhatiimagian 06-Jan-18 16:59
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 215 Barbelo 06-Jan-18 19:53
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 242 Open mind 07-Jan-18 08:25
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 246 Nemobutwhatiimagian 07-Jan-18 12:18
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 247 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 12:42
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 260 M. J. Thomas 07-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 212 Open mind 07-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 186 M. J. Thomas 07-Jan-18 19:23
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 236 cladking 07-Jan-18 15:31
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 215 Open mind 07-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 246 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:42
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 240 Martin Stower 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 164 cladking 07-Jan-18 21:50
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 236 Martin Stower 07-Jan-18 22:19
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 258 Open mind 08-Jan-18 01:59
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 257 cladking 08-Jan-18 02:46
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 189 Warwick 09-Jan-18 19:15
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 250 Anonymous User 07-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 220 Nemobutwhatiimagian 07-Jan-18 22:02
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 228 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 22:09
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 236 cladking 07-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 256 Nemobutwhatiimagian 07-Jan-18 18:41
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 221 Nemobutwhatiimagian 08-Jan-18 18:58
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 212 Nemobutwhatiimagian 08-Jan-18 21:16
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 198 Nemobutwhatiimagian 08-Jan-18 21:45
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 226 Open mind 09-Jan-18 21:56
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 247 Nemobutwhatiimagian 10-Jan-18 01:20
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 235 Nemobutwhatiimagian 10-Jan-18 16:40
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 231 Open mind 10-Jan-18 17:07
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 233 Anonymous User 10-Jan-18 17:20
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 245 Open mind 10-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 175 Open mind 10-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 164 Anonymous User 10-Jan-18 18:22
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 208 Open mind 10-Jan-18 18:48
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 214 Anonymous User 10-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 253 Open mind 10-Jan-18 19:27
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 218 Anonymous User 10-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 207 Nemobutwhatiimagian 13-Jan-18 11:03
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 253 Anonymous User 13-Jan-18 15:09
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 256 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:20
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 193 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:27
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 244 Open mind 10-Jan-18 21:33
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 203 Nemobutwhatiimagian 10-Jan-18 23:59
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 279 Open mind 11-Jan-18 03:57
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 176 M. J. Thomas 11-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 275 Nemobutwhatiimagian 11-Jan-18 01:31
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 258 M. J. Thomas 11-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 237 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:41
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 217 Open mind 11-Jan-18 02:46
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 302 kborissov 23-Jan-18 00:44
Re: Plausible functions of the great pyramid 322 kborissov 28-Jan-18 18:50


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