I'm going to be to the point here before I move o
> Poster Boy Wrote:
> > It is the Church's position to ALWAYS move
> > on matters of alleged supernatural
> > in my opinion because the Church doesn't need
Prigyptian - It takes no time for the episcopate to acknowledge
> that the Sun blinked in and out many times during
> that day. No judgement need be cast about it being
> a "miracle", only a statement of what was
> observed, and yet none have made such a statement.
> In fact, they haven't described any details at all
> of what they saw.
PB - I presume that you didn't read my follow up on the 13-year Fatima inquiry, since this is totally irrelevant.
> > ...If you look further you will find some report
> > they were somehow able to look to the Sun. Not
> > that that would matter in your case. You would
> > just say that it is all part of the hoax.
> > can come up with a conspiracy theory. Sounds
> > you really believe that here, which as I said
> > your prerogative. However, you also
> > systematically exclude a lot of corroborating
> > evidence online, of others reporting this event.
Origyptian - First of all, where has anyone claimed to have
> looked straight into the Sun with the naked eye
> and actually see a sharp solar disk, regardless of
> how badly their retina was scarred by doing so?
> And why would anyone of sound mind look directly
> at the Sun for any length of time in the first
PB - The testimonials are what the testimonals are, sir. There are many of them and you will see the people looking in the direction of the sun.
You have limited yourself to an explanation that entirely relies on known science mechanics. Supernatural effects, by definition, require that we look beyond such restrictive boundaries.
Personally, I don't believe that the Sun danced or expanded or contracted in these instances, literally. Obviously, that would have been detected. I think it is more likely that the space between the sun and the crowds was somehow distorted, which caused the effects. Shall we rule that out, Origyptian, in the name of iron boats not being able to float?
Secondly, who said anything about a conspiracy?
You did, basically. Your whole argument is predicated on people pretending they are moved by solar anomalies, and that they go home and manipulate footage. It ENTIRELY ignores supporting testimonials. Like I said, anybody can concoct a conspiracy theory.
> > This, however, is a very separate issue in my
> > mind. Let us all be VERY CLEAR, Origyptian.
> > did NOT mimic the video and you have NOT come
> > close to meeting my direct challenge.
Origyptian. I have indeed. You simply seem to be deliberately
> avoiding trying the same thing yourself to verify
> it's true.
> > 1. Reach for your cellphone
> > 2. Go outside
> > 3. Point to the Sun
> > 4. Make the Sun appear to blink while the
> > or background field remains constant
> > 5. Load the Video to youtube and introduce
> > yourself.
> > 6. Post the video here.
Origyptian - You must have missed the part where I said it
> might have been a camera with a separate light
> sensor, or (more likely) the few videos out there
> were post-processed to alternate the "exposure"
> setting, just as I did which verified the effect
I didn't miss that part at all. You are creating explanations here, not providing evidence. You have said it was easy to manipulate the light sensor. You made the claim. You probably didn't expect to be called out on that. Post processing is a possibility of course. But there are still many other challenges, such as the group reactions and the testimonials that some sort of solar anomalies occrred, which is strngly supported by crowds gathering to look at the sun.
> > Origyptian, you should know that I have very
> > little interest in debating with people who
> > direct assertions about effects that they
> > be easily be able to reproduce AS THEY
> > CLAIM, especially when I have called upon them
> > 'walk their talk' and they not only don't, but
> > then persist with secondary arguments based on
> > soft-area assumptions like group behavior.
> Yes, it was very easy to mimic the effect within a
> few seconds. You seem to be in total denial about
> this and I'm wondering why, unless you're simply
> one of the faithful who wants it to be true.
PB If you look up to an earlier post, I underlined a sentence that said I was not saying that the results can't be duplicated.
Origyptian - You haven't addressed my point about the subdued crowd
> when the Sun blinking started, or the lack of any
> detailed description of what was meant by "dancing
> Sun", e.g., rather than "winking Sun" or some
> other descriptor that more accurately portrays
> what you believe happened. The fact is, the
> "Dancing" descriptor far more accurately refers to
> the morphing shape of the Sun's glare as the
> clouds pass by and not to any blinking of the Sun.
This is BS. It really indicates to me how superficial your treatment of this discussion, and smug. I did address your concern about the subdued crowd when I followed up with the India post. Do your own research, there are plenty of testimonials out there.
> > Here's one from 2010, apparently. Another for
> > to produce evidence to compare to. To
> > 4 above, please also include a crowd that is
> > facing the sun, with an object and audio, as we
> > see here in this video entitled "Medjugorje -
> > Miracle of the Sun - May 2010": (1)
> > [www.youtube.com]
Origyptian - It is totally unfathomable to me that you are
> suggesting that all those people are there
> witnessing such a blinking Sun with zero reaction
> from the crowd whatsoever.
PB - That's likely it. You are so mired in your prespective being the only one that can be right, you can't fathom anything else.
Origyptian - You're suggesting that
> a field full of people suddenly experienced en
> masse what is arguably the most amazing
> miracle in modern times, and they just stand there
> silently replying to the clergy's prayers?
> Is that really what you think is going on?
Read up on Fatima, and learn. ib
> Zero reaction from astrophysicists around the
> world. No statement by any state official, no
> detailed description from any of the faithful who
> directly observed this event. Nothing other than
> the "personal video" posted by "TheGospaMessages"
> user on YouTube.
Precisely. As I said, you seem to be stuck in normal science mode. It is entirely possible that the field between the sun and the crowds was subject to distortion. What this remark reveals from you, again, as we saw with your "ample proof" about the bishops not making a formal statement, is your shallow treatment of this entire discussion.
Origyptian - Do you not agree that the artifact in
> his video and also
> his one (both by TheGospaMessages) is from
> an oversaturated photo chip?
PB - Classy there.
> > Some of your points are warranted, I would
> > Leaving aside the facts that many are, one
> > think that everybody would be looking at the
> > However, this was not my own direct
> experience ...
Origyptian What follows is an entirely different phenomenon
> which contains no evidence at all other than
> personal descriptions of perceptions and
> interpretation. I was only commenting on the
> blinking Sun effect in those posted videos.
PB - Once again you are entirely wrong: They are the same, as I said, in the sense that they were "apparently" supernatural events that were seen by many people. I was there in India. People didn't drop like flies. Later on in my jhournal I write that I was there for forty-five minutes, studying the situation and the people's reactions. Few looked up at the 'stars' for more than a couple of minutes. Most reverted to a normal emotional state quite quickly.
Origyptian - > Do you want to continue the discussion about your
> Sai Baba experience?
That's a laugh. As for India: You, who was not there, will tell me, who was there, what I experienced in order to fit a public experience into your narrowly confined interpretive box. You seem to have an extremely high opinion of your judgment, so much so that you had no idea how irrelevant your take was on bishops not making an immediate statement on the Nigeria event. Your take on the sociology of what transpired is equally one-sided, which is to say totally biased.
My guess would be
> that the
> > solar anomalies had been occurring for sometime
> > prior to the footage presented. People had had
> > time to adapt.
> Well, still no details are given to what was seen
> other than "shooting stars" in your Sai Baba
Origyptian - And a "guess" is not evidence that can serve to
> authenticate such a report.
PB - I say guess in deference to the eternal uncertainty. You make rushes to judgement that are irrelevant.
No, I won't continue this discussion with you because your rushes to judgement are just that. No, because I think your treatment of this discussion is judgemental, pedantic and frankly predictably boring. I certainly won't make the time to answer questions for you that you could come up with with a little effort on your own part.
That said, Origptian, if you ever walk your talk and provide convincing video footage, send me a PM and I'll have a look. As I stressed earlier, I'm not saying that can't be done. However, as I also said, it ertainly won't close the discussion. And while you're at it, read up on Fatima. Do you really think that 70,000 people showed up in the pouring rain on a hill because they all decided to take a stroll?[/right][/center]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07-Jan-18 23:07 by Poster Boy.