Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Aine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What violation? See Gibbs free energy, not
> negative entropy.

It's hard to get too serious about such things, but it's fun to muse about them, and it brings me back to my hippy days...

Where does that enthalpy come from? The Sun? Where did the Sun get its energy? Someone or something had to load the gun in the first place. Gibbs energy only exists because the energy initially was inserted into the system, right? So where does the energy come from and how was it able to defeat the entropic tendency?


> The second law describes closed systems. Living
> organisms are open systems. The Earth itself is an
> open system. Also, evolutionary processes take
> place over very long periods of time. Show me the
> equation that demonstrates that living organisms
> are in violation of any of the laws of
> thermodynamics.

"Closed" and "open" systems are relative to the context at hand. And in a sense there is no truly closed system as long as it exists with other 'systems' in the same universe. I know of no known principle that allows any such "closed" systems to be guaranteed separation from any other system vis a vis the laws of physics. The notion of a truly "closed system" strikes me more as a thought experiment than anything real we can point to.

It's not even clear to me that the universe as we know it, as a singular closed system truly follows the law of entropy. While it's possible for one to argue that the Big Bang is time zero on the entropy clock, one could also argue that the Big Bang is the second half of a Big Oscillation which includes a Big Implosion phase too, and once the universe compacts back to infinitesimally small as a result of the Big Implosion phase, it may then expand again with another Big Bang, etc., etc., so we do not know whether the 2nd law actually does apply to anything other than the current state of the universe.

Likewise for the timescale of the energy exchange. Living systems represent an eddy current of a net acquisition of energy and organization in an apparent violation of the 2nd Law. You can create a "closed" system by including the entire solar system. Sure, eventually each living organism will succumb to the 2nd law, but they violate that law during their acquisition phase, and they do so quite consistently in an effort to preserve the species.

I'd like to see the equation that plausibly explains how this can slowly develop through random coincidence in the midst of the laws of thermodynamics and statistical probability.


> Also, if the 2nd law was violated, we'd never get
> old and we'd never die.

I certainly don't claim that the violation of the 2nd law is permanent for a given organism. But the law does continue to be violated as the population continues to expand. How is it possible for Nature to expend that energy, and why is it advantageous for Nature to do so?


> Organisms live at
> near-maximum thermodynamic efficiency (some more
> so than others), but in the end, there is no
> violation of the laws of thermodynamics.

Again, "in the end" is a catch-all way to reconcile the law, but it doesn't account for the short-term and consistent reversal in entropy during the lifetime of a species, genus, or phylum, etc. Simply put, DNA is designed from the bottom up to counter entropy long after its procreative processes have been spent. And some species have been doing that for many millions of years. How is that the result of random mass and energy interactions? The video in the above link mainly depicts the high order coiling of DNA after it's been replicated. Very little is available regarding the physical process of replication, and I suspect that's because the unzipping a 6 mile length of rope that's been completely reduced to a 6-degree coil is basically impossible to comprehend, let alone explain.


> And there is now evidence that life itself is an
> unavoidable product of the laws of thermodynamics.
> It's good stuff and they are in the process of
> testing it.
>
> [www.quantamagazine.org]

Not so much "unavoidable" as much as "easily accommodated". The study is based on computer modeling which means many assumptions are made regarding the principles at play. It's reminiscent of Sydney Fox' primordial ooze which generated organic molecules when charged with an electric current.

On the other hand, if you're suggesting that life (and the negative entropy it produces) is simply a short-term phase in the dissipation of energy from the Sun, I certainly would allow that possibility. But it's far less clear that the dissipation of solar energy can accidentally produce DNA's resilience, redundancy, self-repair, self-reproduction, and widespread occurrence on the surface of the planet, let alone the 6-degree helical windings and unzipping that's presented in the above youtube link.


> Against the odds complexity? I knew we'd get into
> that eventually. However, what are the odds of a
> supernatural creator (and make no mistake, that's
> what ID is about) actually existing?

Why categorize it as "supernatural"? What do we think we know that allows us to make such a claim? I prefer "super-unknowable" which seems far more likely, considering the limits of those 3 pounds of water, fat, and protein that we depend on between our ears to contemplate such vast things.


> Now, against the odds doesn't mean impossible
> (because the probability never reaches zero). Show
> me the math that states that a supernatural agent
> is more possible than not.

You're currect that it's a statistical argument, and the odds are infinitesimally tiny. I base that assessment on the 2nd Law, our inability to adequately define life, our inability to find life (so far) anywhere else than the few mile thick surface of our own planet, and the fact that life exists at all.


> > As was previously mentioned, if a non-random
> > 'intelligence' is responsible for setting up the
> > design, what created that 'intelligence'?
>
> Passing the buck fallacy. It fails to apply the
> same rules to the problem when it comes to God.
> And then you're back to infinite regression.
>
> In short, it solves nothing.

Not sure what you mean by that. It's not passing the buck, it's allowing the logical reiterative paradigm to those who believe the universe is indeed infinite. Almost by definition, it's passing the buck to claim that the universe is infinite in space and time.

What rules apply to God? And if God is "intelligent", where did that intelligence come from? Is God getting smarter? Is God subject to the laws of thermodynamics? Does God follow the laws of statistics?

If the laws of physics don't apply to God, how do we account for God!

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02-Jan-18 21:11 by Origyptian.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2631 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 527 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 343 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 349 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 402 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 313 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 445 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 330 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 374 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 341 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 296 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 309 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 331 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 297 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 331 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 327 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 258 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 371 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 263 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 312 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 267 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 367 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 259 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 360 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 298 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 315 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 276 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 206 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 391 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 286 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 293 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 285 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 243 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 263 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 242 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 250 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 252 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 231 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 228 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 214 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 237 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 275 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 254 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 275 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 284 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 259 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 188 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 225 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 336 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 256 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 310 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 280 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 237 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 296 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 242 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 240 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 237 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 241 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 275 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 315 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 331 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 274 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 238 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 262 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 237 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 292 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 243 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 271 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 226 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 215 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 256 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 237 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 239 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 236 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 247 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 262 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 232 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 225 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 271 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 223 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 206 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 235 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 250 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 231 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 212 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 294 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 243 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 222 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 180 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 188 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 194 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 203 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 256 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 209 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 216 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 238 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 201 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 254 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 223 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 283 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 256 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 219 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 263 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 260 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 245 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 225 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 228 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 239 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 223 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 159 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 212 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 343 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 210 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 246 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 202 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 226 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 325 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 230 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 223 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 257 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 207 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 215 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 332 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 258 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 224 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 214 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 311 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 200 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 207 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 191 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 199 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 176 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 175 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 194 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 310 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 190 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 197 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 206 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 246 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 194 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 221 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 228 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 220 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 206 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 300 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 225 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 273 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 325 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 210 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 240 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 220 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 230 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 247 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 215 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 227 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 181 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 227 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 205 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 173 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 175 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 193 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 214 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 276 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 204 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 254 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 191 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 178 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 194 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 197 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 268 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 295 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 230 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 221 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 277 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 256 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 291 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 316 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 296 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 284 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 290 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 258 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 280 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 299 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 192 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 182 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 187 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 334 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 268 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 293 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 192 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 175 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 230 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 202 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 219 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 199 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 248 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 202 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 240 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 228 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 206 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 166 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 177 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 182 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 199 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 199 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 201 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 247 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 221 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 227 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 195 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 216 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 178 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 195 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 191 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 220 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 249 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 215 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 254 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 266 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 271 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 236 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 267 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 194 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 199 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 175 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 274 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 233 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 208 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 205 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 223 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 247 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 294 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 281 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 197 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 321 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 302 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 257 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 275 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 274 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 281 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 293 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 208 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 260 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 176 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 228 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 271 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 215 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 248 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 262 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 217 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 266 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 264 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 231 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 209 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 234 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 251 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 212 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 220 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 253 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 246 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 245 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 267 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 240 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 237 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 206 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 223 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 216 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 208 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 185 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 229 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 201 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 208 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 242 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 245 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 239 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 288 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 308 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 237 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 212 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 205 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 223 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 149 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 243 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 213 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 193 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 181 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 220 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 152 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 236 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 273 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 255 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 253 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 262 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 231 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 228 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 249 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 283 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 215 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 242 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 221 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 258 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 249 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 320 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 226 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 254 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 256 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 195 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 209 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 206 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 211 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 238 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 210 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 196 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 203 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 209 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 198 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 196 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 204 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 240 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 178 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 200 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 194 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 225 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 232 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 284 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 205 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 214 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 267 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 207 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 215 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 307 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 150 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 262 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 193 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 223 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 185 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 213 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 219 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 223 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 267 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 274 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 258 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 247 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 249 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 172 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 243 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 200 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 229 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 240 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 260 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 197 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 211 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 206 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 292 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 226 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 256 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 266 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 265 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 246 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 249 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 333 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 202 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 296 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 235 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 228 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 188 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 323 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 224 Poster Boy 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 330 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 181 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 232 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 244 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 268 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 205 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 262 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 293 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 180 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 262 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 189 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 277 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 212 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 281 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 243 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 161 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 194 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 246 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 261 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 294 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 206 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 236 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 233 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 225 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 215 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 317 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.