Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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Hi Thanos,

Thanks for clarifying your position. Just to restate things going forward, to make sure I am clear, you are saying that the Judeo-Christian view if this historical period is wanting at best, because it doesn't recognize other information that we basically know about this setting and certain essential facts. I will do the cut and paste thing on the issues that I would be grateful if you could clarify or expand upon.

"First of all, this 430yrs comes from the Bible and is not part of Egyptian history, of which there is a lot for this period."

Understood, and this seems to be the basis of your argument in general.

"According to Jewish tradition Abraham was born c. 1800BC. This would put his life, and the beginning of the sojourn to Egypt from Canaan, squarely towards the beginnings of the 13th Dynasty in Egypt. Yes, the AE had slaves from the Levant (Canaan), not to mention many other areas like Libya and Nubia, but these were not "Hebrews" but rather various semitic peoples, often women and war prisoners. There was no such thing as a "Hebrew" during this time nor was there a Yahweh. But they were not an "enslaved people" by any means regardless and Canaan in the 13th Dynasty actually invaded the Nile Delta and formed their own kingdom there."

So, you accept the slavery thing but your dispute is with Moses' followers having their own particular cultural identity as 'Hebrews' but rather they were a multi-cultural Semitic lot. Could you tell me when you see them identifying as "Hebrew"?

"The AE had a long history with the Levant going back for thousands of years before the formation of the Dynastic state. This relationship continued at various levels throughout AE history. The AE themselves in the 1st Dynasty even had outposts in southern Palestine. See also here: Connection Between the 5th Dynasty and the Levant.. The point being that for thousands of years, long before, during, and after the birth of Abraham, Egypt and the Levant/Canaan have had a long history of interaction. No Yahweh."

Likewise with Yahweh: Do you see an origin point for this concept or an era? The Diaspora?

"Moses, if real, is thought to have lived sometime c.14th century BC, in other words the New Kingdom of Egypt. Lots of AE history to be found during this time to help us corroborate the story of Moses of which unfortunately there is none."

Personally, Thanos, I don't have any difficulty with there being no story of Moses on the Egyptian record assuming that the narrative is true. I have always been quite impressed by how the Exodus coincides with Ramses who, during my time in Egypt, greatly impressed me as a narcissist and as such, a person who would seek to make sure that all references to Moses were removed or never cast in stone in the first place - a general idea that seems to accord with what we know about Imhotep the solar pharaoh (or however one spells his name).

"Interestly though, we do have the The Admonitions of Ipuwer which though the copies found date to the New Kingdom, is thought to be older dating to the Middle Kingdom in which Ipuwer is describing an event 400yrs before his time that would place it in the 1st Intermediate period that spanned from c. 2181-2055BC. Obviously long before Moses and even centuries before Abraham and the sojourn to Egypt meaning this is not the story of the Exodus. Yet compare some of the content found with that of the story of Exodus:"

Thanks you for this. The general idea reminds me of the Osiris-Mithras-Jesus-Etc Christos-throughout-the-ages theory. Please don't get me wrong, but I was greatly disappointed to find how scant the evidence was in support of that idea. I'm not against the idea, only I found the academics I had consulted (years ago now) to basically saying that the 'evidence' is far less and far more speculative than advertised by adherents of this line of thought.

But that, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what you are saying on this particular matter. And when it comes to trying to sort out the arcane past we must, at many times, seek to make sense of things based on limited information. I get that. The only thing I would ask of the "Ipuwer" texts is if you can provide any sense of how large or small the associated documents are. How do they compare, volume-wise, to Exodus?

"Hmm. If we remove the supernatural elements of Yahweh, Moses and the Hebrews, ect, we have a curiously similar tale."

I see your basic idea. but if I may ask, Exodus notwithstanding, do you rule out 'supernatural' events period when it comes to your own belief system?

"Regarding Eli's comment about Abraham and taking Sumerian tales with him, though Abraham would have taken these stories, the versions that came to be found in the Bible were themselves more likely much later copies by way of the Babylonians. Remember Nebuchadnezzar II sacking Judea in 597BC? The books of the Torah were written and compiled in the next few centuries that followed. Small world. The greater point about Abraham, being the patriarch of the Hebrews, is that he came from Mesopotamia that has a long history in which there are several parallels to Biblical stories, like the Flood, written thousands of years before."

Again, Thanos, I thank you for taking the time to detail your views on these matters. I am far less of a 'historian' as many are on this site, and you have done me a real courtesy in taking the time that you have. In recognizing the relative limitation of my lesser commitment to such historical things, I try whenever possible, to apply my intuition in conjunction with what I think of as the more predictable forms of human nature.

With that in mind, I'm wondering how you would answer what I see as a key mystery. It's been quite a while but as I recall, the number of people who are said to have followed Moses around Sinai was around 2 million. When I think of those numbers in modern terms I imagine a large modern city and think thusly.

What if I went to a place of such size and announced one day, falsely in the terms of this hypothetical, that the city in fact owes its origins to some episode like the Exodus - starting with the pharaoh's plagues up to and including the parting of the Red Sea and so on? Would there not be a LOT of resistance to my crazy tale and wouldn't the younger ones seek confirmation or repudiation by the 'elders'? Moreover, and here is where I think of the amount of passion that exists with 'historical' types on this board: In a city of two million should we expect to see some evidence of a resistance movement - if not overtly then covertly? Instead, at least to my understanding, we see absolutely none.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this matter Thanos.

Thank you.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2591 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 516 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 323 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 329 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 386 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 289 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 420 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 364 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 331 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 284 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 294 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 284 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 307 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 248 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 358 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 226 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 247 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 244 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 356 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 218 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 350 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 298 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 252 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 192 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 379 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 276 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 281 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 275 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 230 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 265 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 254 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 231 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 220 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 217 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 200 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 226 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 262 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 244 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 264 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 268 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 246 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 231 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 178 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 215 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 315 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 242 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 178 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 228 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 222 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 225 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 222 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 301 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 318 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 268 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 229 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 238 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 223 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 279 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 220 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 258 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 214 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 205 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 245 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 224 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 219 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 214 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 236 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 253 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 206 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 215 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 259 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 211 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 197 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 211 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 239 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 219 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 201 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 275 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 229 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 212 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 178 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 167 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 176 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 183 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 200 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 187 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 247 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 197 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 203 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 228 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 190 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 242 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 198 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 258 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 244 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 209 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 237 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 249 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 224 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 212 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 217 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 227 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 211 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 150 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 192 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 311 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 200 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 235 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 191 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 214 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 313 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 220 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 205 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 247 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 194 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 191 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 197 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 254 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 204 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 319 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 245 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 211 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 192 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 297 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 190 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 198 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 183 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 172 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 165 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 163 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 185 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 172 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 299 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 186 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 203 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 198 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 176 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 187 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 195 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 236 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 185 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 210 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 217 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 208 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 197 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 283 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 210 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 233 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 296 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 188 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 209 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 209 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 217 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 215 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 204 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 215 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 158 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 217 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 193 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 161 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 163 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 168 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 205 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 264 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 194 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 243 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 180 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 153 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 249 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 182 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 187 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 257 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 283 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 217 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 212 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 265 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 247 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 269 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 304 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 237 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 271 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 244 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 258 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 278 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 181 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 172 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 176 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 220 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 308 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 188 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 218 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 200 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 203 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 180 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 164 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 198 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 213 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 190 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 207 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 183 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 234 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 189 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 226 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 204 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 194 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 155 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 167 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 158 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 185 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 174 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 190 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 231 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 207 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 204 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 180 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 206 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 149 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 181 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 180 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 203 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 223 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 201 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 243 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 257 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 258 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 222 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 254 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 182 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 190 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 164 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 248 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 218 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 196 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 182 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 211 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 229 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 192 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 226 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 215 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 269 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 175 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 307 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 290 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 247 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 252 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 261 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 255 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 278 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 195 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 265 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 249 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 167 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 212 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 258 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 205 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 238 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 210 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 239 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 207 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 244 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 251 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 218 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 197 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 224 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 225 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 208 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 201 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 202 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 241 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 235 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 235 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 255 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 228 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 227 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 189 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 212 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 203 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 196 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 160 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 217 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 191 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 193 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 232 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 226 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 276 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 292 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 226 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 211 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 192 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 194 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 211 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 134 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 218 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 205 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 163 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 158 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 210 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 142 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 214 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 258 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 229 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 241 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 219 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 207 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 236 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 274 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 204 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 229 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 198 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 241 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 235 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 292 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 216 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 237 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 232 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 168 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 197 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 195 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 202 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 225 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 199 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 186 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 192 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 195 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 188 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 176 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 192 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 217 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 167 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 185 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 181 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 215 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 209 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 268 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 195 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 201 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 253 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 195 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 204 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 282 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 139 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 249 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 181 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 212 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 175 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 204 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 208 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 207 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 250 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 263 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 248 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 241 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 210 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 160 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 230 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 187 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 201 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 212 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 228 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 249 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 189 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 202 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 195 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 267 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 208 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 243 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 254 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 231 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 251 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 220 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 217 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 223 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 319 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 190 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 273 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 223 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 217 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 177 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 304 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 200 Poster Boy 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 308 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 170 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 219 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 233 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 244 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 193 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 242 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 259 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 284 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 157 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 241 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 177 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 256 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 203 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 268 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 214 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 232 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 224 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 149 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 183 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 221 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 214 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 248 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 283 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 196 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 223 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 200 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 201 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 205 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 302 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


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