Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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Hi Thanos,

Thanks for clarifying your position. Just to restate things going forward, to make sure I am clear, you are saying that the Judeo-Christian view if this historical period is wanting at best, because it doesn't recognize other information that we basically know about this setting and certain essential facts. I will do the cut and paste thing on the issues that I would be grateful if you could clarify or expand upon.

"First of all, this 430yrs comes from the Bible and is not part of Egyptian history, of which there is a lot for this period."

Understood, and this seems to be the basis of your argument in general.

"According to Jewish tradition Abraham was born c. 1800BC. This would put his life, and the beginning of the sojourn to Egypt from Canaan, squarely towards the beginnings of the 13th Dynasty in Egypt. Yes, the AE had slaves from the Levant (Canaan), not to mention many other areas like Libya and Nubia, but these were not "Hebrews" but rather various semitic peoples, often women and war prisoners. There was no such thing as a "Hebrew" during this time nor was there a Yahweh. But they were not an "enslaved people" by any means regardless and Canaan in the 13th Dynasty actually invaded the Nile Delta and formed their own kingdom there."

So, you accept the slavery thing but your dispute is with Moses' followers having their own particular cultural identity as 'Hebrews' but rather they were a multi-cultural Semitic lot. Could you tell me when you see them identifying as "Hebrew"?

"The AE had a long history with the Levant going back for thousands of years before the formation of the Dynastic state. This relationship continued at various levels throughout AE history. The AE themselves in the 1st Dynasty even had outposts in southern Palestine. See also here: Connection Between the 5th Dynasty and the Levant.. The point being that for thousands of years, long before, during, and after the birth of Abraham, Egypt and the Levant/Canaan have had a long history of interaction. No Yahweh."

Likewise with Yahweh: Do you see an origin point for this concept or an era? The Diaspora?

"Moses, if real, is thought to have lived sometime c.14th century BC, in other words the New Kingdom of Egypt. Lots of AE history to be found during this time to help us corroborate the story of Moses of which unfortunately there is none."

Personally, Thanos, I don't have any difficulty with there being no story of Moses on the Egyptian record assuming that the narrative is true. I have always been quite impressed by how the Exodus coincides with Ramses who, during my time in Egypt, greatly impressed me as a narcissist and as such, a person who would seek to make sure that all references to Moses were removed or never cast in stone in the first place - a general idea that seems to accord with what we know about Imhotep the solar pharaoh (or however one spells his name).

"Interestly though, we do have the The Admonitions of Ipuwer which though the copies found date to the New Kingdom, is thought to be older dating to the Middle Kingdom in which Ipuwer is describing an event 400yrs before his time that would place it in the 1st Intermediate period that spanned from c. 2181-2055BC. Obviously long before Moses and even centuries before Abraham and the sojourn to Egypt meaning this is not the story of the Exodus. Yet compare some of the content found with that of the story of Exodus:"

Thanks you for this. The general idea reminds me of the Osiris-Mithras-Jesus-Etc Christos-throughout-the-ages theory. Please don't get me wrong, but I was greatly disappointed to find how scant the evidence was in support of that idea. I'm not against the idea, only I found the academics I had consulted (years ago now) to basically saying that the 'evidence' is far less and far more speculative than advertised by adherents of this line of thought.

But that, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what you are saying on this particular matter. And when it comes to trying to sort out the arcane past we must, at many times, seek to make sense of things based on limited information. I get that. The only thing I would ask of the "Ipuwer" texts is if you can provide any sense of how large or small the associated documents are. How do they compare, volume-wise, to Exodus?

"Hmm. If we remove the supernatural elements of Yahweh, Moses and the Hebrews, ect, we have a curiously similar tale."

I see your basic idea. but if I may ask, Exodus notwithstanding, do you rule out 'supernatural' events period when it comes to your own belief system?

"Regarding Eli's comment about Abraham and taking Sumerian tales with him, though Abraham would have taken these stories, the versions that came to be found in the Bible were themselves more likely much later copies by way of the Babylonians. Remember Nebuchadnezzar II sacking Judea in 597BC? The books of the Torah were written and compiled in the next few centuries that followed. Small world. The greater point about Abraham, being the patriarch of the Hebrews, is that he came from Mesopotamia that has a long history in which there are several parallels to Biblical stories, like the Flood, written thousands of years before."

Again, Thanos, I thank you for taking the time to detail your views on these matters. I am far less of a 'historian' as many are on this site, and you have done me a real courtesy in taking the time that you have. In recognizing the relative limitation of my lesser commitment to such historical things, I try whenever possible, to apply my intuition in conjunction with what I think of as the more predictable forms of human nature.

With that in mind, I'm wondering how you would answer what I see as a key mystery. It's been quite a while but as I recall, the number of people who are said to have followed Moses around Sinai was around 2 million. When I think of those numbers in modern terms I imagine a large modern city and think thusly.

What if I went to a place of such size and announced one day, falsely in the terms of this hypothetical, that the city in fact owes its origins to some episode like the Exodus - starting with the pharaoh's plagues up to and including the parting of the Red Sea and so on? Would there not be a LOT of resistance to my crazy tale and wouldn't the younger ones seek confirmation or repudiation by the 'elders'? Moreover, and here is where I think of the amount of passion that exists with 'historical' types on this board: In a city of two million should we expect to see some evidence of a resistance movement - if not overtly then covertly? Instead, at least to my understanding, we see absolutely none.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this matter Thanos.

Thank you.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2715 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 558 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 374 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 389 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 442 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 343 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 477 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 372 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 404 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 370 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 327 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 359 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 364 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 324 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 376 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 356 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 287 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 325 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 408 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 344 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 296 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 396 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 285 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 408 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 339 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 342 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 319 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 232 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 422 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 331 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 327 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 272 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 308 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 299 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 258 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 260 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 243 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 279 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 291 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 305 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 316 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 306 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 223 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 253 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 389 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 338 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 316 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 285 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 294 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 360 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 314 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 288 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 303 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 308 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 303 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 277 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 314 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 264 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 291 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 280 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 322 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 283 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 280 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 266 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 323 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 357 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 378 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 314 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 301 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 282 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 297 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 287 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 323 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 287 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 301 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 265 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 242 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 295 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 261 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 275 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 270 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 275 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 302 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 259 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 266 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 308 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 253 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 235 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 282 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 299 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 263 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 242 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 322 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 272 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 261 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 288 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 312 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 249 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 307 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 239 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 247 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 277 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 235 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 279 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 246 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 309 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 281 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 244 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 291 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 295 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 283 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 262 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 273 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 263 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 260 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 208 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 253 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 373 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 242 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 303 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 233 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 260 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 367 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 264 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 249 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 291 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 237 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 312 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 305 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 360 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 286 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 247 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 243 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 338 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 195 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 226 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 337 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 269 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 220 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 219 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 234 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 270 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 220 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 245 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 276 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 247 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 251 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 358 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 256 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 302 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 370 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 236 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 273 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 245 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 260 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 285 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 244 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 254 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 227 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 249 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 231 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 199 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 199 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 234 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 247 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 308 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 234 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 281 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 214 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 208 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 215 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 275 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 226 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 316 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 297 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 322 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 252 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 247 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 305 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 281 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 281 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 288 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 300 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 328 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 347 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 325 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 315 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 297 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 315 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 316 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 278 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 313 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 329 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 319 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 241 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 377 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 255 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 345 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 220 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 277 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 200 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 249 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 280 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 276 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 234 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 262 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 228 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 295 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 226 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 264 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 256 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 234 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 190 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 215 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 210 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 235 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 233 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 228 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 293 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 270 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 254 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 224 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 245 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 216 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 219 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 229 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 245 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 302 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 243 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 283 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 295 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 307 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 270 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 305 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 230 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 229 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 202 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 305 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 274 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 231 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 243 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 260 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 270 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 281 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 274 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 274 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 301 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 327 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 281 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 310 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 345 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 333 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 296 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 306 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 314 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 336 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 249 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 315 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 294 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 202 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 268 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 296 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 242 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 278 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 273 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 293 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 251 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 335 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 301 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 256 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 235 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 258 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 285 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 256 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 243 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 272 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 284 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 296 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 281 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 294 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 280 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 263 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 244 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 253 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 269 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 245 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 239 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 260 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 225 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 241 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 279 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 272 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 287 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 311 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 335 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 269 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 243 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 273 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 236 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 250 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 190 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 282 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 237 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 239 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 212 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 254 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 180 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 266 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 301 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 287 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 301 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 295 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 255 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 278 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 320 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 237 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 274 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 265 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 289 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 282 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 377 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 254 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 288 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 281 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 235 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 247 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 243 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 251 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 258 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 236 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 233 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 242 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 236 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 226 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 230 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 230 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 298 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 236 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 223 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 256 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 264 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 321 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 244 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 262 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 302 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 241 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 266 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 352 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 174 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 305 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 220 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 247 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 219 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 256 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 243 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 283 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 317 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 304 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 293 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 285 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 285 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 246 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 214 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 293 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 256 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 252 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 276 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 296 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 223 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 238 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 241 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 329 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 260 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 305 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 306 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 303 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 294 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 308 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 250 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 370 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 240 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 328 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 266 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 278 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 214 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 349 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 273 Poster Boy 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 379 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 231 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 265 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 267 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 313 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 229 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 301 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 323 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 224 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 229 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 328 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 255 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 317 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 272 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 268 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 281 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 203 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 220 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 278 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 248 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 290 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 324 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 237 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 273 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 267 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 263 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 240 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 360 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


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