Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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Hi Thanos,

Thanks for clarifying your position. Just to restate things going forward, to make sure I am clear, you are saying that the Judeo-Christian view if this historical period is wanting at best, because it doesn't recognize other information that we basically know about this setting and certain essential facts. I will do the cut and paste thing on the issues that I would be grateful if you could clarify or expand upon.

"First of all, this 430yrs comes from the Bible and is not part of Egyptian history, of which there is a lot for this period."

Understood, and this seems to be the basis of your argument in general.

"According to Jewish tradition Abraham was born c. 1800BC. This would put his life, and the beginning of the sojourn to Egypt from Canaan, squarely towards the beginnings of the 13th Dynasty in Egypt. Yes, the AE had slaves from the Levant (Canaan), not to mention many other areas like Libya and Nubia, but these were not "Hebrews" but rather various semitic peoples, often women and war prisoners. There was no such thing as a "Hebrew" during this time nor was there a Yahweh. But they were not an "enslaved people" by any means regardless and Canaan in the 13th Dynasty actually invaded the Nile Delta and formed their own kingdom there."

So, you accept the slavery thing but your dispute is with Moses' followers having their own particular cultural identity as 'Hebrews' but rather they were a multi-cultural Semitic lot. Could you tell me when you see them identifying as "Hebrew"?

"The AE had a long history with the Levant going back for thousands of years before the formation of the Dynastic state. This relationship continued at various levels throughout AE history. The AE themselves in the 1st Dynasty even had outposts in southern Palestine. See also here: Connection Between the 5th Dynasty and the Levant.. The point being that for thousands of years, long before, during, and after the birth of Abraham, Egypt and the Levant/Canaan have had a long history of interaction. No Yahweh."

Likewise with Yahweh: Do you see an origin point for this concept or an era? The Diaspora?

"Moses, if real, is thought to have lived sometime c.14th century BC, in other words the New Kingdom of Egypt. Lots of AE history to be found during this time to help us corroborate the story of Moses of which unfortunately there is none."

Personally, Thanos, I don't have any difficulty with there being no story of Moses on the Egyptian record assuming that the narrative is true. I have always been quite impressed by how the Exodus coincides with Ramses who, during my time in Egypt, greatly impressed me as a narcissist and as such, a person who would seek to make sure that all references to Moses were removed or never cast in stone in the first place - a general idea that seems to accord with what we know about Imhotep the solar pharaoh (or however one spells his name).

"Interestly though, we do have the The Admonitions of Ipuwer which though the copies found date to the New Kingdom, is thought to be older dating to the Middle Kingdom in which Ipuwer is describing an event 400yrs before his time that would place it in the 1st Intermediate period that spanned from c. 2181-2055BC. Obviously long before Moses and even centuries before Abraham and the sojourn to Egypt meaning this is not the story of the Exodus. Yet compare some of the content found with that of the story of Exodus:"

Thanks you for this. The general idea reminds me of the Osiris-Mithras-Jesus-Etc Christos-throughout-the-ages theory. Please don't get me wrong, but I was greatly disappointed to find how scant the evidence was in support of that idea. I'm not against the idea, only I found the academics I had consulted (years ago now) to basically saying that the 'evidence' is far less and far more speculative than advertised by adherents of this line of thought.

But that, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what you are saying on this particular matter. And when it comes to trying to sort out the arcane past we must, at many times, seek to make sense of things based on limited information. I get that. The only thing I would ask of the "Ipuwer" texts is if you can provide any sense of how large or small the associated documents are. How do they compare, volume-wise, to Exodus?

"Hmm. If we remove the supernatural elements of Yahweh, Moses and the Hebrews, ect, we have a curiously similar tale."

I see your basic idea. but if I may ask, Exodus notwithstanding, do you rule out 'supernatural' events period when it comes to your own belief system?

"Regarding Eli's comment about Abraham and taking Sumerian tales with him, though Abraham would have taken these stories, the versions that came to be found in the Bible were themselves more likely much later copies by way of the Babylonians. Remember Nebuchadnezzar II sacking Judea in 597BC? The books of the Torah were written and compiled in the next few centuries that followed. Small world. The greater point about Abraham, being the patriarch of the Hebrews, is that he came from Mesopotamia that has a long history in which there are several parallels to Biblical stories, like the Flood, written thousands of years before."

Again, Thanos, I thank you for taking the time to detail your views on these matters. I am far less of a 'historian' as many are on this site, and you have done me a real courtesy in taking the time that you have. In recognizing the relative limitation of my lesser commitment to such historical things, I try whenever possible, to apply my intuition in conjunction with what I think of as the more predictable forms of human nature.

With that in mind, I'm wondering how you would answer what I see as a key mystery. It's been quite a while but as I recall, the number of people who are said to have followed Moses around Sinai was around 2 million. When I think of those numbers in modern terms I imagine a large modern city and think thusly.

What if I went to a place of such size and announced one day, falsely in the terms of this hypothetical, that the city in fact owes its origins to some episode like the Exodus - starting with the pharaoh's plagues up to and including the parting of the Red Sea and so on? Would there not be a LOT of resistance to my crazy tale and wouldn't the younger ones seek confirmation or repudiation by the 'elders'? Moreover, and here is where I think of the amount of passion that exists with 'historical' types on this board: In a city of two million should we expect to see some evidence of a resistance movement - if not overtly then covertly? Instead, at least to my understanding, we see absolutely none.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this matter Thanos.

Thank you.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2553 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 484 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 296 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 299 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 367 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 271 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 399 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 345 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 311 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 267 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 275 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 302 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 266 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 287 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 295 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 229 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 253 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 334 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 204 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 279 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 228 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 336 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 191 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 271 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 231 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 173 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 355 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 254 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 253 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 251 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 195 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 245 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 219 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 212 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 218 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 209 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 202 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 198 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 178 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 207 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 242 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 220 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 241 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 241 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 221 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 196 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 157 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 191 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 222 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 159 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 206 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 190 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 208 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 199 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 206 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 199 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 280 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 292 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 210 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 205 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 206 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 255 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 199 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 233 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 191 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 188 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 222 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 194 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 198 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 181 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 217 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 233 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 188 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 189 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 237 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 190 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 178 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 191 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 214 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 201 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 180 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 233 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 200 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 191 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 160 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 143 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 182 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 222 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 206 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 184 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 174 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 155 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 166 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 171 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 191 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 168 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 224 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 179 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 187 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 208 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 171 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 222 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 181 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 232 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 227 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 189 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 215 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 228 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 205 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 192 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 198 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 211 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 194 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 133 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 176 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 278 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 182 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 218 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 175 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 195 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 283 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 199 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 178 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 225 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 177 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 172 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 181 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 173 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 204 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 188 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 196 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 178 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 298 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 222 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 193 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 171 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 174 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 178 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 166 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 154 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 147 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 142 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 163 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 177 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 148 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 195 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 178 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 168 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 194 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 184 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 172 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 157 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 167 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 181 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 216 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 168 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 191 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 199 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 178 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 181 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 246 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 193 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 209 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 265 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 171 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 187 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 190 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 199 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 190 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 180 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 191 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 135 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 198 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 177 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 141 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 141 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 151 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 189 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 246 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 174 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 221 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 164 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 138 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 166 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 167 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 238 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 263 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 187 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 194 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 235 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 230 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 195 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 184 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 207 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 255 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 248 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 219 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 236 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 250 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 187 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 152 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 172 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 184 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 185 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 153 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 183 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 153 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 196 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 203 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 169 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 182 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 178 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 184 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 178 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 164 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 195 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 182 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 147 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 176 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 162 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 182 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 168 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 189 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 166 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 218 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 169 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 207 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 181 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 176 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 138 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 152 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 140 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 168 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 159 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 171 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 196 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 188 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 188 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 157 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 176 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 131 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 156 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 159 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 167 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 193 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 180 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 223 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 219 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 231 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 197 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 237 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 148 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 163 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 133 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 228 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 202 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 181 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 165 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 194 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 194 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 174 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 187 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 195 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 197 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 191 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 156 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 268 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 258 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 229 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 231 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 245 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 236 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 179 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 248 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 233 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 144 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 197 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 240 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 184 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 218 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 188 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 216 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 174 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 211 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 232 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 186 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 171 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 189 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 207 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 191 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 177 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 169 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 205 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 216 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 216 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 215 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 208 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 196 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 163 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 197 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 170 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 174 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 140 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 198 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 171 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 168 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 213 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 192 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 199 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 248 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 267 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 206 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 195 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 172 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 178 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 195 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 116 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 174 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 175 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 144 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 140 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 173 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 125 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 182 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 204 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 211 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 226 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 202 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 188 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 203 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 248 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 186 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 187 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 180 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 214 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 186 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 271 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 188 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 214 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 210 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 142 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 178 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 179 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 181 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 199 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 184 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 171 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 166 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 178 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 162 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 157 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 173 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 194 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 146 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 137 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 166 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 194 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 185 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 249 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 179 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 186 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 235 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 172 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 174 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 255 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 119 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 216 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 148 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 193 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 152 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 163 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 183 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 191 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 229 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 224 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 229 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 179 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 216 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 191 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 142 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 213 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 165 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 171 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 190 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 197 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 230 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 174 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 186 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 170 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 253 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 189 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 213 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 234 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 214 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 226 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 201 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 199 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 203 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 298 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 172 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 252 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 199 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 199 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 163 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 247 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 177 Poster Boy 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 289 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 152 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 199 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 207 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 224 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 159 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 219 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 238 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 250 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 140 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 221 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 159 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 216 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 183 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 236 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 182 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 218 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 192 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 129 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 168 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 204 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 185 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 221 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 239 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 175 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 202 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 179 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 174 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 187 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 260 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


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