Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Hi Thanos,

Thanks for clarifying your position. Just to restate things going forward, to make sure I am clear, you are saying that the Judeo-Christian view if this historical period is wanting at best, because it doesn't recognize other information that we basically know about this setting and certain essential facts. I will do the cut and paste thing on the issues that I would be grateful if you could clarify or expand upon.

"First of all, this 430yrs comes from the Bible and is not part of Egyptian history, of which there is a lot for this period."

Understood, and this seems to be the basis of your argument in general.

"According to Jewish tradition Abraham was born c. 1800BC. This would put his life, and the beginning of the sojourn to Egypt from Canaan, squarely towards the beginnings of the 13th Dynasty in Egypt. Yes, the AE had slaves from the Levant (Canaan), not to mention many other areas like Libya and Nubia, but these were not "Hebrews" but rather various semitic peoples, often women and war prisoners. There was no such thing as a "Hebrew" during this time nor was there a Yahweh. But they were not an "enslaved people" by any means regardless and Canaan in the 13th Dynasty actually invaded the Nile Delta and formed their own kingdom there."

So, you accept the slavery thing but your dispute is with Moses' followers having their own particular cultural identity as 'Hebrews' but rather they were a multi-cultural Semitic lot. Could you tell me when you see them identifying as "Hebrew"?

"The AE had a long history with the Levant going back for thousands of years before the formation of the Dynastic state. This relationship continued at various levels throughout AE history. The AE themselves in the 1st Dynasty even had outposts in southern Palestine. See also here: Connection Between the 5th Dynasty and the Levant.. The point being that for thousands of years, long before, during, and after the birth of Abraham, Egypt and the Levant/Canaan have had a long history of interaction. No Yahweh."

Likewise with Yahweh: Do you see an origin point for this concept or an era? The Diaspora?

"Moses, if real, is thought to have lived sometime c.14th century BC, in other words the New Kingdom of Egypt. Lots of AE history to be found during this time to help us corroborate the story of Moses of which unfortunately there is none."

Personally, Thanos, I don't have any difficulty with there being no story of Moses on the Egyptian record assuming that the narrative is true. I have always been quite impressed by how the Exodus coincides with Ramses who, during my time in Egypt, greatly impressed me as a narcissist and as such, a person who would seek to make sure that all references to Moses were removed or never cast in stone in the first place - a general idea that seems to accord with what we know about Imhotep the solar pharaoh (or however one spells his name).

"Interestly though, we do have the The Admonitions of Ipuwer which though the copies found date to the New Kingdom, is thought to be older dating to the Middle Kingdom in which Ipuwer is describing an event 400yrs before his time that would place it in the 1st Intermediate period that spanned from c. 2181-2055BC. Obviously long before Moses and even centuries before Abraham and the sojourn to Egypt meaning this is not the story of the Exodus. Yet compare some of the content found with that of the story of Exodus:"

Thanks you for this. The general idea reminds me of the Osiris-Mithras-Jesus-Etc Christos-throughout-the-ages theory. Please don't get me wrong, but I was greatly disappointed to find how scant the evidence was in support of that idea. I'm not against the idea, only I found the academics I had consulted (years ago now) to basically saying that the 'evidence' is far less and far more speculative than advertised by adherents of this line of thought.

But that, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what you are saying on this particular matter. And when it comes to trying to sort out the arcane past we must, at many times, seek to make sense of things based on limited information. I get that. The only thing I would ask of the "Ipuwer" texts is if you can provide any sense of how large or small the associated documents are. How do they compare, volume-wise, to Exodus?

"Hmm. If we remove the supernatural elements of Yahweh, Moses and the Hebrews, ect, we have a curiously similar tale."

I see your basic idea. but if I may ask, Exodus notwithstanding, do you rule out 'supernatural' events period when it comes to your own belief system?

"Regarding Eli's comment about Abraham and taking Sumerian tales with him, though Abraham would have taken these stories, the versions that came to be found in the Bible were themselves more likely much later copies by way of the Babylonians. Remember Nebuchadnezzar II sacking Judea in 597BC? The books of the Torah were written and compiled in the next few centuries that followed. Small world. The greater point about Abraham, being the patriarch of the Hebrews, is that he came from Mesopotamia that has a long history in which there are several parallels to Biblical stories, like the Flood, written thousands of years before."

Again, Thanos, I thank you for taking the time to detail your views on these matters. I am far less of a 'historian' as many are on this site, and you have done me a real courtesy in taking the time that you have. In recognizing the relative limitation of my lesser commitment to such historical things, I try whenever possible, to apply my intuition in conjunction with what I think of as the more predictable forms of human nature.

With that in mind, I'm wondering how you would answer what I see as a key mystery. It's been quite a while but as I recall, the number of people who are said to have followed Moses around Sinai was around 2 million. When I think of those numbers in modern terms I imagine a large modern city and think thusly.

What if I went to a place of such size and announced one day, falsely in the terms of this hypothetical, that the city in fact owes its origins to some episode like the Exodus - starting with the pharaoh's plagues up to and including the parting of the Red Sea and so on? Would there not be a LOT of resistance to my crazy tale and wouldn't the younger ones seek confirmation or repudiation by the 'elders'? Moreover, and here is where I think of the amount of passion that exists with 'historical' types on this board: In a city of two million should we expect to see some evidence of a resistance movement - if not overtly then covertly? Instead, at least to my understanding, we see absolutely none.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this matter Thanos.

Thank you.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2618 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 524 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 338 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 345 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 400 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 307 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 438 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 328 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 373 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 339 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 293 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 308 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 329 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 296 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 325 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 324 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 290 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 367 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 237 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 261 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 310 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 262 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 364 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 255 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 358 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 297 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 312 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 271 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 203 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 389 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 284 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 291 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 284 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 239 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 274 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 261 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 240 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 248 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 245 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 228 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 226 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 209 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 235 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 272 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 253 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 272 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 281 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 264 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 254 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 187 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 222 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 335 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 252 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 249 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 305 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 268 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 254 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 187 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 285 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 292 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 238 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 238 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 233 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 312 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 329 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 237 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 259 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 234 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 290 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 240 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 269 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 222 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 214 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 254 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 234 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 238 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 232 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 244 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 260 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 227 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 223 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 269 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 220 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 205 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 229 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 249 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 229 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 209 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 292 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 241 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 220 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 190 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 177 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 185 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 191 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 207 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 222 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 254 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 206 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 213 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 237 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 200 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 251 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 216 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 276 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 253 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 216 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 260 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 258 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 240 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 223 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 226 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 235 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 220 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 157 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 210 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 338 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 208 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 243 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 199 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 225 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 322 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 228 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 221 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 255 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 206 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 198 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 328 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 255 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 220 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 210 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 309 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 199 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 174 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 170 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 203 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 215 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 198 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 226 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 188 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 194 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 204 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 244 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 193 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 218 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 225 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 217 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 204 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 298 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 222 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 267 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 320 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 207 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 234 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 217 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 226 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 243 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 213 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 223 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 179 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 224 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 203 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 170 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 172 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 187 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 213 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 274 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 202 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 251 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 189 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 171 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 192 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 196 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 280 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 266 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 293 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 227 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 220 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 274 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 254 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 255 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 290 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 315 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 293 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 280 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 285 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 288 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 252 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 274 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 295 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 191 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 200 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 179 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 184 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 328 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 198 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 290 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 190 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 173 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 227 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 201 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 216 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 196 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 246 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 199 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 238 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 221 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 204 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 163 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 176 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 179 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 197 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 195 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 198 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 245 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 216 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 224 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 191 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 213 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 171 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 193 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 190 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 219 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 242 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 212 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 253 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 265 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 269 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 233 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 264 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 192 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 198 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 174 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 267 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 231 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 205 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 200 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 220 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 245 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 220 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 249 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 275 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 249 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 192 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 268 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 269 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 275 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 289 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 206 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 273 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 257 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 174 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 226 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 269 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 213 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 247 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 228 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 257 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 215 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 261 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 262 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 207 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 232 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 245 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 219 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 210 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 217 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 252 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 245 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 243 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 265 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 238 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 236 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 204 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 222 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 215 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 204 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 183 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 227 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 198 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 207 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 241 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 243 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 237 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 286 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 305 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 235 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 219 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 209 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 202 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 146 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 237 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 211 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 187 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 176 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 218 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 151 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 231 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 250 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 251 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 257 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 228 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 224 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 245 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 281 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 213 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 239 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 218 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 256 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 246 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 316 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 224 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 250 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 251 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 189 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 207 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 204 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 210 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 234 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 208 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 195 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 200 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 206 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 196 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 193 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 201 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 235 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 176 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 199 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 192 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 223 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 226 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 281 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 202 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 212 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 263 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 205 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 213 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 305 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 147 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 260 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 191 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 183 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 211 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 218 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 266 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 272 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 256 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 241 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 248 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 218 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 170 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 241 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 198 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 221 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 226 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 237 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 258 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 196 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 210 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 204 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 286 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 224 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 254 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 264 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 249 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 262 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 241 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 226 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 241 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 331 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 200 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 290 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 232 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 226 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 187 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 320 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 219 Poster Boy 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 326 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 178 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 231 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 242 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 262 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 203 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 259 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 268 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 175 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 260 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 186 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 275 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 209 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 280 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 234 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 241 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 236 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 158 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 192 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 240 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 224 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 258 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 293 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 204 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 232 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 228 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 220 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 213 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 315 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.