Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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Hi Thanos,

Thanks for clarifying your position. Just to restate things going forward, to make sure I am clear, you are saying that the Judeo-Christian view if this historical period is wanting at best, because it doesn't recognize other information that we basically know about this setting and certain essential facts. I will do the cut and paste thing on the issues that I would be grateful if you could clarify or expand upon.

"First of all, this 430yrs comes from the Bible and is not part of Egyptian history, of which there is a lot for this period."

Understood, and this seems to be the basis of your argument in general.

"According to Jewish tradition Abraham was born c. 1800BC. This would put his life, and the beginning of the sojourn to Egypt from Canaan, squarely towards the beginnings of the 13th Dynasty in Egypt. Yes, the AE had slaves from the Levant (Canaan), not to mention many other areas like Libya and Nubia, but these were not "Hebrews" but rather various semitic peoples, often women and war prisoners. There was no such thing as a "Hebrew" during this time nor was there a Yahweh. But they were not an "enslaved people" by any means regardless and Canaan in the 13th Dynasty actually invaded the Nile Delta and formed their own kingdom there."

So, you accept the slavery thing but your dispute is with Moses' followers having their own particular cultural identity as 'Hebrews' but rather they were a multi-cultural Semitic lot. Could you tell me when you see them identifying as "Hebrew"?

"The AE had a long history with the Levant going back for thousands of years before the formation of the Dynastic state. This relationship continued at various levels throughout AE history. The AE themselves in the 1st Dynasty even had outposts in southern Palestine. See also here: Connection Between the 5th Dynasty and the Levant.. The point being that for thousands of years, long before, during, and after the birth of Abraham, Egypt and the Levant/Canaan have had a long history of interaction. No Yahweh."

Likewise with Yahweh: Do you see an origin point for this concept or an era? The Diaspora?

"Moses, if real, is thought to have lived sometime c.14th century BC, in other words the New Kingdom of Egypt. Lots of AE history to be found during this time to help us corroborate the story of Moses of which unfortunately there is none."

Personally, Thanos, I don't have any difficulty with there being no story of Moses on the Egyptian record assuming that the narrative is true. I have always been quite impressed by how the Exodus coincides with Ramses who, during my time in Egypt, greatly impressed me as a narcissist and as such, a person who would seek to make sure that all references to Moses were removed or never cast in stone in the first place - a general idea that seems to accord with what we know about Imhotep the solar pharaoh (or however one spells his name).

"Interestly though, we do have the The Admonitions of Ipuwer which though the copies found date to the New Kingdom, is thought to be older dating to the Middle Kingdom in which Ipuwer is describing an event 400yrs before his time that would place it in the 1st Intermediate period that spanned from c. 2181-2055BC. Obviously long before Moses and even centuries before Abraham and the sojourn to Egypt meaning this is not the story of the Exodus. Yet compare some of the content found with that of the story of Exodus:"

Thanks you for this. The general idea reminds me of the Osiris-Mithras-Jesus-Etc Christos-throughout-the-ages theory. Please don't get me wrong, but I was greatly disappointed to find how scant the evidence was in support of that idea. I'm not against the idea, only I found the academics I had consulted (years ago now) to basically saying that the 'evidence' is far less and far more speculative than advertised by adherents of this line of thought.

But that, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what you are saying on this particular matter. And when it comes to trying to sort out the arcane past we must, at many times, seek to make sense of things based on limited information. I get that. The only thing I would ask of the "Ipuwer" texts is if you can provide any sense of how large or small the associated documents are. How do they compare, volume-wise, to Exodus?

"Hmm. If we remove the supernatural elements of Yahweh, Moses and the Hebrews, ect, we have a curiously similar tale."

I see your basic idea. but if I may ask, Exodus notwithstanding, do you rule out 'supernatural' events period when it comes to your own belief system?

"Regarding Eli's comment about Abraham and taking Sumerian tales with him, though Abraham would have taken these stories, the versions that came to be found in the Bible were themselves more likely much later copies by way of the Babylonians. Remember Nebuchadnezzar II sacking Judea in 597BC? The books of the Torah were written and compiled in the next few centuries that followed. Small world. The greater point about Abraham, being the patriarch of the Hebrews, is that he came from Mesopotamia that has a long history in which there are several parallels to Biblical stories, like the Flood, written thousands of years before."

Again, Thanos, I thank you for taking the time to detail your views on these matters. I am far less of a 'historian' as many are on this site, and you have done me a real courtesy in taking the time that you have. In recognizing the relative limitation of my lesser commitment to such historical things, I try whenever possible, to apply my intuition in conjunction with what I think of as the more predictable forms of human nature.

With that in mind, I'm wondering how you would answer what I see as a key mystery. It's been quite a while but as I recall, the number of people who are said to have followed Moses around Sinai was around 2 million. When I think of those numbers in modern terms I imagine a large modern city and think thusly.

What if I went to a place of such size and announced one day, falsely in the terms of this hypothetical, that the city in fact owes its origins to some episode like the Exodus - starting with the pharaoh's plagues up to and including the parting of the Red Sea and so on? Would there not be a LOT of resistance to my crazy tale and wouldn't the younger ones seek confirmation or repudiation by the 'elders'? Moreover, and here is where I think of the amount of passion that exists with 'historical' types on this board: In a city of two million should we expect to see some evidence of a resistance movement - if not overtly then covertly? Instead, at least to my understanding, we see absolutely none.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this matter Thanos.

Thank you.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2676 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 552 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 367 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 369 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 435 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 336 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 470 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 364 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 399 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 362 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 319 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 349 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 352 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 315 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 353 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 347 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 319 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 394 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 259 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 336 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 288 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 386 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 280 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 392 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 332 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 335 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 307 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 223 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 413 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 308 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 319 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 317 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 264 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 289 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 269 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 251 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 252 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 235 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 261 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 303 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 284 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 296 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 308 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 290 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 210 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 246 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 368 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 329 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 308 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 276 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 284 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 348 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 292 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 280 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 294 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 301 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 206 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 315 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 274 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 273 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 255 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 302 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 345 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 360 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 302 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 294 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 271 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 290 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 258 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 314 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 279 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 290 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 254 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 234 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 285 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 254 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 265 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 260 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 267 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 297 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 253 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 248 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 299 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 246 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 229 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 269 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 284 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 254 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 231 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 314 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 265 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 249 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 281 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 285 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 300 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 241 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 294 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 231 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 239 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 265 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 224 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 272 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 239 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 302 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 274 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 238 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 283 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 285 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 274 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 254 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 256 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 256 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 253 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 178 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 246 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 365 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 228 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 289 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 221 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 252 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 353 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 253 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 239 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 286 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 226 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 303 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 297 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 354 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 278 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 241 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 237 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 332 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 198 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 190 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 218 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 331 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 254 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 215 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 229 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 265 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 213 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 239 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 267 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 239 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 242 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 334 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 244 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 296 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 357 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 230 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 262 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 241 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 254 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 280 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 235 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 247 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 206 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 242 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 224 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 193 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 194 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 223 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 241 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 303 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 223 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 274 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 208 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 196 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 219 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 310 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 289 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 315 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 245 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 242 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 297 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 275 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 275 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 318 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 338 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 317 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 310 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 291 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 309 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 309 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 274 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 300 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 321 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 312 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 203 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 357 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 249 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 254 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 296 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 316 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 264 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 247 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 225 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 257 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 222 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 275 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 221 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 257 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 252 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 226 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 183 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 202 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 205 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 222 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 217 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 221 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 277 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 248 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 240 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 211 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 235 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 209 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 213 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 221 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 235 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 271 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 231 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 275 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 284 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 298 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 253 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 290 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 221 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 217 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 195 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 295 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 264 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 223 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 230 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 246 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 262 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 268 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 297 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 303 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 315 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 277 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 254 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 302 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 218 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 339 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 291 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 291 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 234 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 280 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 194 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 255 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 290 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 234 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 267 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 258 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 285 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 239 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 318 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 286 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 249 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 226 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 252 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 271 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 239 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 250 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 274 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 279 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 269 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 286 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 271 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 254 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 224 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 240 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 257 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 214 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 249 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 220 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 226 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 273 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 268 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 267 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 305 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 323 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 258 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 237 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 244 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 222 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 240 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 182 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 270 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 231 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 224 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 202 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 240 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 173 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 255 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 291 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 278 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 284 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 250 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 245 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 266 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 305 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 230 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 259 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 242 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 274 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 268 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 370 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 246 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 271 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 270 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 216 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 237 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 227 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 235 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 253 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 230 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 226 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 230 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 220 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 216 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 221 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 270 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 208 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 228 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 209 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 246 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 257 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 299 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 229 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 241 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 287 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 225 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 243 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 333 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 166 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 288 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 211 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 241 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 205 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 232 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 236 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 265 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 306 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 295 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 279 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 273 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 270 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 238 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 198 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 261 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 217 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 244 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 245 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 258 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 283 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 217 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 229 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 236 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 319 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 253 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 278 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 296 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 295 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 245 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 267 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 362 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 234 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 314 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 255 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 268 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 207 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 340 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 245 Poster Boy 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 359 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 209 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 261 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 305 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 224 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 288 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 290 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 311 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 209 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 281 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 207 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 312 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 246 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 303 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 263 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 260 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 269 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 184 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 212 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 266 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 243 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 284 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 313 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 224 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 254 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 259 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 244 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 232 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 339 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


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