Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> With all due respect to Eli, the ability to quote
> scripture does not equate to "knowing". Far from
> it. Go to church on Sunday and despite the fact
> your minister can quote passages all day long I am
> certain they know little to nothing about history
> outside of the "history" told by the Bible and the
> interpretation of that "history" given to them by
> the church.
>


First off, no offense taken but I will point out that your assumption that I am ignorant of the relative history of the geo-political landscape is false. All you have done is base an argument on which culture wrote what first about shared experiences as opposed to which narrative of the event is most credible.

>
> If this were true there would be no Christians.
> Genesis 11:2:
> And it came to pass, as they [Noah's
> descendants after the Flood] journeyed from the
> east, that they found a plain in the land of
> Shinar; and they dwelt there.
>
> Shinar is the Hebrew word for Sumer, i.e. southern
> Mesopotamia. It is here writing was invented c.
> 3500BC in which the first books of the Bible [Old
> Testament] were written some 2700-3,000yrs later.
> Yahweh himself was not invented until c. 1400BC in
> which he was a conglomeration of other tribal gods
> and it was not until c. 900BC that Yahweh became a
> national god when the states of Israel and Judah
> were formed.
>
> If you read the Bible, you will see that Abraham,
> the patriarch of what would later become the
> Hebrews, lived in the city of Ur which tradition
> holds was sometime in the 19th century BC. Ur is
> an ancient Sumerian city which at that time was
> ruled by the Akkadians, also prolific writers, who
> ursupred Sumer c. 24th century BC under Sargon the
> Great. Abraham was Akkadian. Before him there was
> no such thing as a "Hebrew" and for long after for
> that matter. Nor was there any such thing as a
> Yahweh. There were however many other gods as well
> as a common
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,10
> 48435,page=1]Flood story[/url] which the Biblical
> tale is a much later revision. The Sumerians also
> had an "Adam", the first man created from clay by
> the gods. According to the Mesopotamian epic the
> Enuma Elish:
>

You appear to have attempted to provide a link to a forum discussion that is not working so I trust you'll understand if the following concerns were already addressed.

According to the available documents the title Yahweh is first used in Gen 2 but he does not reveal himself (setting aside his alleged role in the creation and flood stories) until after the time when humanity began to establish nations with national gods because he wanted to establish a nation to represent himself according to the narrative. Furthermore, the unique innovation to the region of the Yahwists was the development of a monotheistic principle which obviously was not the result of influence from a polytheistic society. So I don’t understand the value of this argument at all.


> [quote]When the gods like men
> Bore the work and suffered the toll
> The toil of the gods was great,
> The work was heavy, the distress was much.
>
> …
> In the clay, god and man
> Shall be bound,
> To a unity brought together;
> So that to the end of days
> The Flesh and the Soul
> Which in a god have ripened –
> That soul in a blood-kinship be bound.[/quote]
>

So, before Abraham existed there were no Hebrews who are descendants of Abraham?

Additionally, I would challenge the credulity of the argument that after 430 years of living under Egyptian rule the Hebrews wrote an account of creation that is influenced by the Sumerians just because Abraham was born there. Is it not a far more likely argument that the similarities of accounts of a flood are the result of various oral traditions about a shared historical event. The narrative of the bible simply makes the claim that it’s source of information is the revelation of a god rather than tradition.

As to other similarities. We all experience similar forces of nature, the same celestial events and have seen that the dead turn to dust. A distinct difference in these narratives is the belief that the gods created humanity to serve them as opposed to a god attempting to create other gods ("in his image he created man") by perfecting the character of humanity.


> No Yahweh, sorry. Never heard of him as he would
> not be invented for another 1,000yrs or more. The
> fact is, intellectually and historically speaking,
> when you look at actual history prior to the first
> books of the Bible being written, most having not
> existed yet being largely a response of Hebrew
> tradition being wiped out by the Babylonian
> conquest of Judah under Nebuchadnezzar II in
> 597BC, despite volume after volume of writing from
> numerous cultures-there is no evidence whatsoever
> to corroborate one word of the supernatural
> actions of the Hebrew god Yahweh in any way shape
> or form. No one cared, and again, keep in mind
> that there was over 2,000yrs of writing before
> Yahweh was even invented. So no one knew of him
> before and other than the Hebrews no one cared
> after.
>

I’m always surprised by this argument in that first of all it assumes that a loyal polytheist would go to the trouble (not so easy as putting pen to paper) of recording the beliefs, victories and failures of a small monotheistic society. Additionally, I find it astounding that the accuracy of the attributes of the Egyptian gods as told in the Biblical account of the war of the Gods (Exodus) has not been a greater focus at GHMB.

> Jesus is no better and the fact is the Old
> Testament and New Testament were never meant to be
> joined together. The Dead Sea Scrolls were written
> between 150BC and 70AD, otherwise directly before,
> during, and after Jesus lived and were written by
> the Essenes, one of the main Jewish sects of the
> period. And not one single word mentions "Jesus".
> Never heard of him. Don;t you think it strange
> that the most religious believers of the Old
> Testament, who lived during and after Jesus
> supposedly lived, never heard of him? Nor did the
> Romans of whose empire Jesus went around
> supposedly performing miracles in front of
> sometimes thousands of people? Yes no one thought
> to write any of this down in the most literate
> place on earth at the time? Hmmm.
>

Again, why would anyone assume that a foreign nation would write about the life and times of a perceived Jewish false Messiah that was crucified and died like so many other criminals of his day. Why would the Jewish scribes record that the Sanhedrin had him killed by providing false testimony regarding claims that he had not made due to their fear of Roman intervention in their national affairs.

No, I don’t think that this is at all strange. Is it strange to you that such an alleged insignificant figure would be worshiped by so many 2000 years later?


> Sorry, but to predicate one's beliefs in
> Christianity on a "purely intellectual and
> historical level" is to not know history.

Really?

Eli

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2583 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 508 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 318 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 381 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 415 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 313 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 359 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 324 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 279 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 289 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 315 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 279 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 302 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 311 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 243 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 265 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 350 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 220 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 242 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 293 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 240 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 351 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 202 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 341 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 284 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 291 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 244 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 187 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 372 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 273 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 268 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 221 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 260 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 246 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 226 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 235 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 223 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 215 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 212 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 194 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 220 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 257 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 261 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 240 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 218 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 170 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 207 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 302 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 237 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 281 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 172 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 220 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 206 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 269 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 225 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 216 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 220 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 294 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 313 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 223 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 222 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 220 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 271 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 215 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 253 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 208 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 201 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 238 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 214 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 214 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 201 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 229 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 246 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 200 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 205 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 254 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 205 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 190 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 204 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 230 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 216 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 195 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 265 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 218 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 205 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 174 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 163 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 197 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 204 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 204 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 169 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 178 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 186 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 206 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 183 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 242 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 191 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 197 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 221 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 183 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 234 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 194 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 253 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 237 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 202 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 231 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 240 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 218 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 206 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 210 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 224 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 205 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 143 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 188 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 296 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 195 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 229 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 186 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 208 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 302 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 213 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 191 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 240 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 184 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 190 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 226 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 199 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 196 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 312 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 236 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 206 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 183 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 186 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 177 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 165 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 158 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 155 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 174 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 194 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 158 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 206 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 293 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 179 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 196 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 191 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 170 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 180 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 191 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 229 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 179 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 205 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 210 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 192 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 192 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 273 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 206 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 225 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 289 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 185 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 203 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 204 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 211 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 200 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 198 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 208 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 154 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 210 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 188 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 152 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 155 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 163 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 201 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 258 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 188 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 235 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 174 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 149 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 177 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 182 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 252 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 279 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 209 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 206 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 260 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 242 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 203 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 264 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 299 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 258 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 237 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 249 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 263 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 222 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 174 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 184 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 195 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 197 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 165 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 197 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 170 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 207 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 298 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 179 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 195 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 197 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 176 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 218 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 197 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 159 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 192 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 237 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 174 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 205 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 184 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 201 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 178 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 228 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 181 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 217 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 196 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 189 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 149 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 162 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 151 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 181 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 170 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 182 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 219 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 201 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 198 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 174 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 197 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 144 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 172 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 172 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 192 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 210 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 195 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 239 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 250 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 253 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 219 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 249 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 176 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 179 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 159 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 243 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 213 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 191 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 177 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 205 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 219 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 186 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 200 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 215 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 217 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 168 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 242 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 241 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 257 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 248 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 271 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 190 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 258 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 244 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 158 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 207 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 254 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 199 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 232 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 200 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 232 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 199 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 236 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 243 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 210 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 192 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 219 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 220 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 204 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 195 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 195 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 233 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 229 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 247 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 219 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 182 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 208 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 192 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 185 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 156 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 210 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 185 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 185 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 226 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 223 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 218 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 268 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 284 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 222 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 206 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 187 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 190 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 206 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 129 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 207 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 199 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 158 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 154 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 202 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 137 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 208 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 251 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 216 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 234 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 236 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 214 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 203 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 231 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 265 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 198 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 223 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 194 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 229 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 221 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 285 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 211 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 231 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 221 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 161 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 191 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 191 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 195 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 217 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 194 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 182 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 184 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 189 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 182 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 172 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 186 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 212 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 161 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 173 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 177 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 212 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 203 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 260 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 191 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 196 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 249 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 191 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 198 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 273 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 132 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 244 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 172 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 206 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 170 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 193 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 197 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 203 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 243 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 259 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 243 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 208 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 235 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 204 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 154 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 226 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 183 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 191 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 206 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 222 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 240 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 184 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 196 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 191 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 263 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 200 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 239 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 249 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 215 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 209 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 218 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 313 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 186 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 268 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 216 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 210 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 173 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 287 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 193 Poster Boy 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 302 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 163 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 212 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 240 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 187 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 232 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 253 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 278 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 153 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 237 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 171 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 246 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 193 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 258 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 205 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 215 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 142 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 179 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 216 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 208 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 242 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 272 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 187 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 219 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 191 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 195 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 198 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 292 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.