Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> With all due respect to Eli, the ability to quote
> scripture does not equate to "knowing". Far from
> it. Go to church on Sunday and despite the fact
> your minister can quote passages all day long I am
> certain they know little to nothing about history
> outside of the "history" told by the Bible and the
> interpretation of that "history" given to them by
> the church.
>


First off, no offense taken but I will point out that your assumption that I am ignorant of the relative history of the geo-political landscape is false. All you have done is base an argument on which culture wrote what first about shared experiences as opposed to which narrative of the event is most credible.

>
> If this were true there would be no Christians.
> Genesis 11:2:
> And it came to pass, as they [Noah's
> descendants after the Flood] journeyed from the
> east, that they found a plain in the land of
> Shinar; and they dwelt there.
>
> Shinar is the Hebrew word for Sumer, i.e. southern
> Mesopotamia. It is here writing was invented c.
> 3500BC in which the first books of the Bible [Old
> Testament] were written some 2700-3,000yrs later.
> Yahweh himself was not invented until c. 1400BC in
> which he was a conglomeration of other tribal gods
> and it was not until c. 900BC that Yahweh became a
> national god when the states of Israel and Judah
> were formed.
>
> If you read the Bible, you will see that Abraham,
> the patriarch of what would later become the
> Hebrews, lived in the city of Ur which tradition
> holds was sometime in the 19th century BC. Ur is
> an ancient Sumerian city which at that time was
> ruled by the Akkadians, also prolific writers, who
> ursupred Sumer c. 24th century BC under Sargon the
> Great. Abraham was Akkadian. Before him there was
> no such thing as a "Hebrew" and for long after for
> that matter. Nor was there any such thing as a
> Yahweh. There were however many other gods as well
> as a common
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,10
> 48435,page=1]Flood story[/url] which the Biblical
> tale is a much later revision. The Sumerians also
> had an "Adam", the first man created from clay by
> the gods. According to the Mesopotamian epic the
> Enuma Elish:
>

You appear to have attempted to provide a link to a forum discussion that is not working so I trust you'll understand if the following concerns were already addressed.

According to the available documents the title Yahweh is first used in Gen 2 but he does not reveal himself (setting aside his alleged role in the creation and flood stories) until after the time when humanity began to establish nations with national gods because he wanted to establish a nation to represent himself according to the narrative. Furthermore, the unique innovation to the region of the Yahwists was the development of a monotheistic principle which obviously was not the result of influence from a polytheistic society. So I don’t understand the value of this argument at all.


> [quote]When the gods like men
> Bore the work and suffered the toll
> The toil of the gods was great,
> The work was heavy, the distress was much.
>
> …
> In the clay, god and man
> Shall be bound,
> To a unity brought together;
> So that to the end of days
> The Flesh and the Soul
> Which in a god have ripened –
> That soul in a blood-kinship be bound.[/quote]
>

So, before Abraham existed there were no Hebrews who are descendants of Abraham?

Additionally, I would challenge the credulity of the argument that after 430 years of living under Egyptian rule the Hebrews wrote an account of creation that is influenced by the Sumerians just because Abraham was born there. Is it not a far more likely argument that the similarities of accounts of a flood are the result of various oral traditions about a shared historical event. The narrative of the bible simply makes the claim that it’s source of information is the revelation of a god rather than tradition.

As to other similarities. We all experience similar forces of nature, the same celestial events and have seen that the dead turn to dust. A distinct difference in these narratives is the belief that the gods created humanity to serve them as opposed to a god attempting to create other gods ("in his image he created man") by perfecting the character of humanity.


> No Yahweh, sorry. Never heard of him as he would
> not be invented for another 1,000yrs or more. The
> fact is, intellectually and historically speaking,
> when you look at actual history prior to the first
> books of the Bible being written, most having not
> existed yet being largely a response of Hebrew
> tradition being wiped out by the Babylonian
> conquest of Judah under Nebuchadnezzar II in
> 597BC, despite volume after volume of writing from
> numerous cultures-there is no evidence whatsoever
> to corroborate one word of the supernatural
> actions of the Hebrew god Yahweh in any way shape
> or form. No one cared, and again, keep in mind
> that there was over 2,000yrs of writing before
> Yahweh was even invented. So no one knew of him
> before and other than the Hebrews no one cared
> after.
>

I’m always surprised by this argument in that first of all it assumes that a loyal polytheist would go to the trouble (not so easy as putting pen to paper) of recording the beliefs, victories and failures of a small monotheistic society. Additionally, I find it astounding that the accuracy of the attributes of the Egyptian gods as told in the Biblical account of the war of the Gods (Exodus) has not been a greater focus at GHMB.

> Jesus is no better and the fact is the Old
> Testament and New Testament were never meant to be
> joined together. The Dead Sea Scrolls were written
> between 150BC and 70AD, otherwise directly before,
> during, and after Jesus lived and were written by
> the Essenes, one of the main Jewish sects of the
> period. And not one single word mentions "Jesus".
> Never heard of him. Don;t you think it strange
> that the most religious believers of the Old
> Testament, who lived during and after Jesus
> supposedly lived, never heard of him? Nor did the
> Romans of whose empire Jesus went around
> supposedly performing miracles in front of
> sometimes thousands of people? Yes no one thought
> to write any of this down in the most literate
> place on earth at the time? Hmmm.
>

Again, why would anyone assume that a foreign nation would write about the life and times of a perceived Jewish false Messiah that was crucified and died like so many other criminals of his day. Why would the Jewish scribes record that the Sanhedrin had him killed by providing false testimony regarding claims that he had not made due to their fear of Roman intervention in their national affairs.

No, I don’t think that this is at all strange. Is it strange to you that such an alleged insignificant figure would be worshiped by so many 2000 years later?


> Sorry, but to predicate one's beliefs in
> Christianity on a "purely intellectual and
> historical level" is to not know history.

Really?

Eli

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2632 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 527 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 345 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 349 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 403 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 318 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 446 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 330 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 374 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 342 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 296 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 310 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 331 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 297 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 332 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 327 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 259 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 293 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 371 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 263 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 313 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 268 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 367 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 260 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 361 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 299 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 206 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 392 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 286 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 293 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 285 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 243 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 278 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 265 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 242 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 252 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 253 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 232 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 229 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 214 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 237 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 278 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 254 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 276 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 285 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 272 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 261 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 188 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 225 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 338 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 296 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 256 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 311 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 280 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 189 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 296 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 242 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 240 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 237 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 241 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 219 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 277 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 316 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 332 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 275 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 240 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 262 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 237 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 292 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 245 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 271 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 226 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 216 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 256 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 237 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 240 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 236 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 247 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 262 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 233 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 225 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 272 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 223 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 206 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 235 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 251 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 233 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 212 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 295 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 243 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 222 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 180 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 188 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 194 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 221 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 205 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 256 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 210 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 217 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 241 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 201 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 255 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 223 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 284 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 256 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 220 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 263 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 261 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 245 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 225 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 228 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 239 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 223 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 160 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 213 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 347 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 211 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 246 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 203 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 227 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 325 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 231 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 223 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 258 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 201 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 208 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 248 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 332 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 258 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 224 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 216 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 311 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 200 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 209 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 192 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 200 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 176 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 175 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 195 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 311 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 218 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 191 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 197 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 207 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 246 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 195 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 221 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 229 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 220 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 207 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 301 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 225 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 273 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 327 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 211 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 242 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 220 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 231 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 247 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 216 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 228 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 181 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 227 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 205 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 173 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 177 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 195 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 216 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 276 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 204 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 254 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 192 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 178 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 194 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 198 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 268 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 296 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 230 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 223 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 277 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 257 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 237 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 292 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 317 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 297 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 285 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 290 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 258 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 281 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 299 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 213 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 183 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 224 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 188 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 335 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 202 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 214 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 268 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 293 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 193 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 215 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 177 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 212 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 231 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 202 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 219 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 199 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 248 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 202 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 241 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 231 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 206 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 166 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 178 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 183 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 199 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 200 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 201 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 247 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 221 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 227 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 195 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 216 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 179 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 195 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 192 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 221 Poster Boy 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 249 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 215 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 254 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 267 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 273 Poster Boy 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 236 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 268 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 196 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 200 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 175 Poster Boy 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 275 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 235 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 208 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 207 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 224 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 248 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 211 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 284 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 254 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 198 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 323 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 302 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 257 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 275 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 275 Poster Boy 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 282 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 293 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 208 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 260 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 176 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 272 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 216 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 249 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 266 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 217 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 268 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 264 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 232 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 209 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 235 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 252 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 213 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 254 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 248 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 246 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 267 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 240 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 237 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 207 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 225 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 217 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 208 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 186 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 230 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 202 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 210 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 243 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 247 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 239 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 288 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 308 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 237 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 222 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 213 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 205 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 224 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 149 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 243 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 213 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 197 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 182 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 152 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 238 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 273 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 257 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 255 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 263 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 232 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 229 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 249 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 285 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 215 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 244 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 221 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 259 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 249 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 324 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 228 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 255 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 256 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 196 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 210 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 206 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 213 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 238 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 211 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 198 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 204 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 209 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 200 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 197 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 204 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 240 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 180 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 203 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 194 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 225 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 234 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 285 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 205 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 215 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 267 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 208 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 215 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 309 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 150 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 263 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 195 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 224 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 186 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 213 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 219 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 224 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 270 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 274 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 258 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 248 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 249 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 222 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 172 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 244 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 200 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 223 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 230 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 240 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 260 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 199 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 212 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 208 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 295 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 228 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 258 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 267 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 259 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 265 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 246 Poster Boy 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 228 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 250 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 334 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 202 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 297 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 235 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 230 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 189 Poster Boy 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 323 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 224 Poster Boy 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 331 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 182 Poster Boy 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 234 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 244 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 268 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 206 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 263 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 293 Poster Boy 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 181 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 263 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 189 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 278 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 212 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 281 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 244 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 243 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 161 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 194 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 246 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 227 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 263 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 294 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 206 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 236 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 233 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 225 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 216 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 318 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.