Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Usimare Setepenre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ramps are in fact the most reasonably efficient
> method of construction that has been proposed thus
> far. The amount of work required to drag the
> stones would have been lessened considerably by
> the incline of the ramps themselves.

"In fact", you say? I respectfully challenge that "fact".

The energy and resources required to quarry, shape, and assemble such an enormous construction ramp along with what's required to overcome the drag friction along the mile(ish) long incline is astronomically higher than what's required to lift objects in a step function. And that doesn't consider the additional effort to generate the materials and construct the main pyramid structure itself.

Also, if you believe as "fact" that the blocks used in the construction of the ramp itself were somehow eventually repurposed for use in the pyramid, I'd like to understand how the builders were able to disassemble the ramp as they constructed the higher courses of the pyramid, where presumably an intact ramp would be all the more essential for those higher courses. We must also consider the additional energy and resources required to disassemble that mile long ramp afterward.

Where are you getting your "facts" about on the engineering of that structure?


> With full
> consideration of the weight of the stones in mind,
> it has been estimated that it would have taken a
> mere 10 to 20 men to drag a single block of stone.
> And far from being unattested, the archaeological
> remains of several of the external ramps have been
> discovered on the Giza Plateau.
>
> [oi.uchicago.edu]

Perhaps I missed your point here. How does Lehner’s article support your notions about construction ramps? Nowhere in that article did I see him state as “fact” that construction ramps were used. He simply muses over the purpose of a low rock wall. First he graciously (imho) acknowledges traditional thought that contends “it might have been a construction ramp,” but then he follows that with “another possibility is that the builders intended to prevent wadi floods from undermining the WOC.” Not only does the latter makes far more sense since it’s well known that deserts can experience significant flash flooding, but in fact, Lehner specifically states that “In 2001 we came to a similar conclusion — that wadi flooding interrupted construction — after studying the layers in our Deep Trench, which we excavated on the south side of WOC in Area WCS”. So the information presented by Lehner argues more strongly that they needed to build a flood barrier so they could minimize the interruptions with construction. He says nothing to defend the use of construction ramps.


> Based upon your post, I would assume that you are
> under the assumption that the Great Pyramid could
> only have been built by aliens.

Again, what made you draw that conclusion? I see nothing in cladking’s post that would limit the alternative to “aliens”.


> ...[orthodox narrative omitted here]...
> ...
> I should let you know, that I am in fact a PhD
> candidate currently working towards his doctorate
> in Egyptology. And as such I am well aware of most
> of the available evidence concerning the royal
> ideologies and mortuary beliefs of the Old
> Kingdom.

You essentially stated earlier that you believe that Merer’s log indisputably proves Khufu built G1 4500 years ago. I assume as a doctoral candidate you are required to defend your assertions with evidence. Could you please cite the evidence that backs up that assertion about Merer's log?


> And believe it or not, as part of my
> university curriculum, I took a course which
> related all of the current fringe theories about
> ancient Egypt, and which trained me in the most
> effective ways to counter fringe arguments.

What training did you receive that proves that G1 was definitely not already ancient at the beginning of the Dynastic period, or proves that it was built in 20 years, or proves that the 2550 BC Egyptians had the technology to develop the plans, infrastructure, technology, training, logistics, and resources to build all those stone pyramids withing those 200 years so early on in the Dynastic era, while maintaining a viable economy through it all and providing no plausible development curve before the first pyramid popped out of that culture?

What training proved to you that they were able to quarry, shape, transport over 600 miles, lift, and position granite slabs weighing upward about 80 tons up to a 160’ elevation? (and please try to answer that without including the words “Stocks” or “Rekhmire”).


> I in fact wrote my class paper on Erich von Daniken's
> "Chariot of the Gods." He is an alternative
> theorist that I assume you and Open Mind hold in
> high regard.

What evidence do you have that led you to that assumption?


> However, having read his book, I can
> assure you that it is rife with errors. For
> starters he assumes that it would have taken the
> Great Pyramid 600 years for Bronze Age people to
> build. In fact, as I mentioned earlier it took 20 years.

Your basis for stating as ”fact” that it took 20 years to build G1 appears to be a mere conjecture suggested by Lehner. Lehner also believes that the Granite Plugs and the Antechamber were originally designed to be security measures? Do you also believe that?

How do you account for the very complex geometry of the blocks that comprise G1's Ascending Passage?

How do you account for the existence of the so-called "Relieving Chambers"?

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14-Jan-18 18:48 by Origyptian.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 1855 nellyjesus28 27-Nov-17 04:38
Mod Note > Topic Moved 474 Dr. Troglodyte 27-Nov-17 17:01
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 422 Usimare Setepenre 12-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 344 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 17:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 307 DUNE 14-Jan-18 18:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 334 Open mind 12-Jan-18 20:09
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 347 Barbelo 12-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 372 cladking 12-Jan-18 20:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 456 Usimare Setepenre 12-Jan-18 21:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 337 cladking 12-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 331 Barbelo 12-Jan-18 23:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 343 Open mind 12-Jan-18 23:54
Just Another Wacko Theory 336 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 00:31
Re: Just Another Wacko Theory 331 cladking 13-Jan-18 00:36
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 385 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 02:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 350 Open mind 13-Jan-18 02:44
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 331 John B 13-Jan-18 03:05
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 335 Open mind 13-Jan-18 03:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 313 John B 13-Jan-18 03:45
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 307 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:26
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 323 Audrey 13-Jan-18 04:27
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 301 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 286 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 309 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 287 Nemobutwhatiimagian 13-Jan-18 22:06
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 298 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:22
Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 414 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 03:04
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 331 John B 13-Jan-18 03:31
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 275 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 287 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 369 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:17
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 325 Audrey 13-Jan-18 04:26
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 320 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 04:57
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 320 Audrey 13-Jan-18 05:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 310 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 306 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 294 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 260 cladking 13-Jan-18 16:54
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 246 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:52
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 249 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:33
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 228 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 359 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 10:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 306 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 287 cladking 13-Jan-18 14:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 326 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:54
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 308 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 243 Origyptian 16-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 240 Jon Ellison 17-Jan-18 14:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 241 Origyptian 17-Jan-18 19:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 294 Jon Ellison 17-Jan-18 23:11
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 273 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 15:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 299 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 16:34
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 246 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 16:40
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 287 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 277 cladking 13-Jan-18 17:07
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 275 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 261 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 17:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 294 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 290 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 296 cladking 13-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 291 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 316 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 19:16
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 245 Audrey 13-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 355 Merrell 13-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 297 Audrey 13-Jan-18 21:51
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 272 eyeofhorus33 13-Jan-18 23:14
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 253 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 284 cladking 13-Jan-18 16:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 241 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:38
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 304 Thanos5150 13-Jan-18 17:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 323 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:40
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 296 cladking 13-Jan-18 17:58
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 253 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 279 cladking 13-Jan-18 22:48
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 288 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:57
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 304 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 343 Rickard 13-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 300 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 238 Open mind 14-Jan-18 19:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 306 Thanos5150 14-Jan-18 00:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 294 cladking 14-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 299 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 03:17
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 309 Audrey 14-Jan-18 04:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 307 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 05:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 321 Audrey 14-Jan-18 06:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 262 Martin Stower 14-Jan-18 12:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 306 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 370 Open mind 14-Jan-18 20:01
Just Curious 309 WonderWho 14-Jan-18 12:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 258 Martin Stower 14-Jan-18 00:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 266 Thanos5150 14-Jan-18 00:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 279 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 18:44
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 312 Open mind 12-Jan-18 22:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 325 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 294 Audrey 13-Jan-18 05:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 282 kirass 18-Jan-18 14:03
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 237 Origyptian 18-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 285 Anonymous User 18-Jan-18 19:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 405 kirass 19-Jan-18 05:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 381 kirass 19-Jan-18 05:55


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.