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Usimare Setepenre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greetings Cladking,
>
> And thank you for your detailed reply to my post.
>
> However, it would appear that you are not
> cognizant of the copious amount of archaeological,
> linguistic, and contextual evidence regarding the
> purpose for and manner of construction of the
> Great Pyramid.

That would be an erroneous assumption Usi, which you shall soon find out. Just because one does not agree with Egyptology does not mean one is ignorant of it.

> Ramps are in fact the most reasonably efficient
> method of construction that has been proposed thus
> far.

Says who? The Egyptologists? And what do they know of construction and engineering? All they know is pottery and hieroglyphs.

> The amount of work required to drag the
> stones would have been lessened considerably by
> the incline of the ramps themselves. With full
> consideration of the weight of the stones in mind,
> it has been estimated that it would have taken a
> mere 10 to 20 men to drag a single block of stone.

Then let's see the Egyptologists do it. Take a mere 10 or 20 of them, and lets see them drag 50 tons up a ramp. Ok that's impossible, so let's see them drag the sarcophagus, in sandals with ropes. But first, lets see them build a ramp. Would it be mud or gravel? Hell they don't know. They wouldn't know how to make a mud ramp, let alone a gravel one. Yet they are sure there were ramps.

> And far from being unattested, the archaeological
> remains of several of the external ramps have been
> discovered on the Giza Plateau.
>
> [oi.uchicago.edu]
> s/uploads/shared/docs/05-06_Giza.pdf

Your link says nothing about several ramps found. A little imagination goes a long way

> Based upon your post, I would assume that you are
> under the assumption that the Great Pyramid could
> only have been built by aliens.

Wow, that's an outrageous assumption to make. Swinging to the extreme.

> Such a hypothesis
> is both unfounded and unnecessary to even
> consider, especially given the fact that the
> Egyptians themselves possessed all of the
> necessary tools and technical expertize to
> construct massive stone structures. Your claim
> that the inclusion of arsenic into the copper
> smelting process was "accidental" is entirely
> unconvincing. Personally, I find it hard to
> believe that the very people who developed the
> most sophisticated civilization of the Bronze Age
> would not have known how to improve the strength
> and technical efficiency of the metals available
> to them. At any rate, your assumption would seem
> to be negated by the fact that nearly all of the
> copper tools and weapons discovered from the Old
> Kingdom contain significant traces of arsenic.

Which is it? Significant amounts or traces? How does a trace become significant? Is .0001% significant, or does .05 become significant. At what point does a "trace" become significant enough to affect the hardness of copper to the point that it will cut granite? Only in the mind of an Egyptologist.

> The copper tools of the Pyramid Age would have been
> more than capable of working limestone, and the
> addition of quartzite abrasives would have enabled
> the workmen to effectively cut through and shape
> the granite used to construct the King's Chamber
> and portcullises.

Then why has no one been able to do it?

> Neither you nor anyone else on
> the fringe can deny that the Egyptian masons of
> the Old Kingdom employed the use of abrasives to
> work granite, dolerite, and other hard stone.

By now you've shown you have no idea what the fringe denies or accepts. It would be better if you asked the fringe questions instead of assuming you learned all about them in class.

> And as I posted above, all of this was done to
> build a tomb for a man who was believed to be a
> god. Contemporary linguistic and textual evidence
> from the Old Kingdom conclusively demonstrates
> that the Egyptians believed there king to have
> been a living god. The title "Hm.f," in fact
> literally means "His Incarnation." "NTR-NFR"
> translates to the "Good God." Each king also had a
> Horus Name which he chose upon his ascension to
> the throne. Khufu's was Hrw-Mdjw, which
> translates to the "Horus that Strikes." In
> addition, the Pyramid Texts, which provide our
> primary source for the religious beliefs of the
> Old Kingdom, prove the king was considered to be a
> god. And yes, he did hold the power over the life
> and death of his subjects in his hands. This is
> demonstrated by the Pyramid Texts themselves which
> declare concerning the king, "He whom he wills to
> live, shall live. He whom he wills to die, shall
> die."

Boy you guys bank everything on the PT's. Too bad they don't say anything about ramps or the pyramids. Meanwhile you completely ignore the engineering, the inexplicable stone cuts, design of the passages, etc and so forth. It sounds like you have no idea what the fringe disagrees with and why.

> I should let you know, that I am in fact a PhD
> candidate currently working towards his doctorate
> in Egyptology.

And? This makes you an engineer? Or perhaps an expert in granite? Or maybe a mathematician? Or maybe it gives you considerable expertise in construction? Personally I think an engineering degree would get you much closer to understanding the construction of the great pyramids. Unless Egyptology has figured out how to build one with pottery and hieroglyphs.

> And as such I am well aware of most
> of the available evidence concerning the royal
> ideologies and mortuary beliefs of the Old
> Kingdom.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with construction, engineering and tools. Ideologies and beliefs themselves cannot build a great pyramid.

> And believe it or not, as part of my
> university curriculum, I took a course which
> related all of the current fringe theories about
> ancient Egypt, and which trained me in the most
> effective ways to counter fringe arguments. I in
> fact wrote my class paper on Erich von Daniken's
> "Chariot of the Gods." He is an alternative
> theorist that I assume you and Open Mind hold in
> high regard.

Now that is one of funniest things I've heard come out of Egyptology!
You're making some outlandish assumptions. Did they teach you those assumptions in class? If so, I'd have to say, take a different class, you were hoodwinked.

> However, having read his book, I can
> assure you that it is rife with errors. For
> starters he assumes that it would have taken the
> Great Pyramid 600 years for Bronze Age people to
> build. In fact, as I mentioned earlier it took 20
> years.


You say that ONLY because Herodotus wrote it. Now tell us, how would Herodotus know?

> He also, mistakenly mentioned Alexandria
> as being contemporary with Egypt's Fourth Dynasty.
> Alexandria didn't even exist until 331 BC. During
> the Old Kingdom the area where Alexandria would be
> built was an isolated fishing village. There was
> no major port there. I mention this because von
> Daniken claims the ships carrying Cedar of Lebanon
> would not have been able to reach the Nile from
> Alexandria. As you can see, von Daniken doesn't
> know much of anything about ancient Egypt. This
> kind of puts a damper on his assertion that
> extraterrestrial visitors built the Great Pyramid
> or anything else on earth, wouldn't you agree?

You're wasting your time talking about Von Daniken.

Wow guys, do you believe it!

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 1824 nellyjesus28 27-Nov-17 04:38
Mod Note > Topic Moved 456 Dr. Troglodyte 27-Nov-17 17:01
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 413 Usimare Setepenre 12-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 336 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 17:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 299 DUNE 14-Jan-18 18:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 328 Open mind 12-Jan-18 20:09
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 341 Barbelo 12-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 363 cladking 12-Jan-18 20:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 446 Usimare Setepenre 12-Jan-18 21:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 329 cladking 12-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 325 Barbelo 12-Jan-18 23:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 335 Open mind 12-Jan-18 23:54
Just Another Wacko Theory 329 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 00:31
Re: Just Another Wacko Theory 324 cladking 13-Jan-18 00:36
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 370 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 02:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 344 Open mind 13-Jan-18 02:44
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 321 John B 13-Jan-18 03:05
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 329 Open mind 13-Jan-18 03:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 307 John B 13-Jan-18 03:45
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 301 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:26
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 315 Audrey 13-Jan-18 04:27
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 294 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 281 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 302 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 281 Nemobutwhatiimagian 13-Jan-18 22:06
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 293 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:22
Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 402 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 03:04
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 323 John B 13-Jan-18 03:31
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 268 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 281 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 354 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:17
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 313 Audrey 13-Jan-18 04:26
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 316 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 04:57
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 313 Audrey 13-Jan-18 05:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 303 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 298 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 287 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 249 cladking 13-Jan-18 16:54
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 239 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:52
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 243 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:33
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 221 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 349 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 10:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 299 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 270 cladking 13-Jan-18 14:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 318 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:54
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 295 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 239 Origyptian 16-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 233 Jon Ellison 17-Jan-18 14:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 234 Origyptian 17-Jan-18 19:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 288 Jon Ellison 17-Jan-18 23:11
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 267 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 15:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 292 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 16:34
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 239 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 16:40
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 281 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 270 cladking 13-Jan-18 17:07
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 268 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 254 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 17:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 288 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 283 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 288 cladking 13-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 284 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 308 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 19:16
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 237 Audrey 13-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 343 Merrell 13-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 288 Audrey 13-Jan-18 21:51
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 265 eyeofhorus33 13-Jan-18 23:14
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 246 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 277 cladking 13-Jan-18 16:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 235 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:38
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 296 Thanos5150 13-Jan-18 17:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 316 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:40
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 289 cladking 13-Jan-18 17:58
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 247 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 271 cladking 13-Jan-18 22:48
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 282 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:57
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 298 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 327 Rickard 13-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 289 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 231 Open mind 14-Jan-18 19:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 298 Thanos5150 14-Jan-18 00:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 288 cladking 14-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 293 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 03:17
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 303 Audrey 14-Jan-18 04:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 300 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 05:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 307 Audrey 14-Jan-18 06:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 256 Martin Stower 14-Jan-18 12:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 301 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 362 Open mind 14-Jan-18 20:01
Just Curious 302 WonderWho 14-Jan-18 12:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 251 Martin Stower 14-Jan-18 00:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 259 Thanos5150 14-Jan-18 00:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 265 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 18:44
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 306 Open mind 12-Jan-18 22:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 318 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 288 Audrey 13-Jan-18 05:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 274 kirass 18-Jan-18 14:03
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 229 Origyptian 18-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 279 Anonymous User 18-Jan-18 19:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 374 kirass 19-Jan-18 05:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 372 kirass 19-Jan-18 05:55


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