Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Usimare Setepenre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> However, it would appear that you are not
> cognizant of the copious amount of archaeological,
> linguistic, and contextual evidence regarding the
> purpose for and manner of construction of the
> Great Pyramid.

You'll have to show me some of this someday. Then I can show you that I have debunked ramps. Yes, I have shown through a preponderance of evidence not only that ramps were not and could not have been used but I also have shown how they were actually built; stones were lifted straight up the side one step at a time.

> Ramps are in fact the most reasonably efficient
> method of construction that has been proposed thus
> far.

This is something Egyptologists say. The reality is there is no less efficient means possible to lift stones with ancient technology. ALL mechanical advantage by definition increases the total work load. Building a mountain of ramps to build a mountain must be the least efficient means. ...Other than dragging stones round Europe first.

> And far from being unattested, the archaeological
> remains of several of the external ramps have been
> discovered on the Giza Plateau.

There are inclined planes everywhere and the ancients used them for walkways and many other purposes. There's certainly no evidence of ramps and still no ramp proposal that would work.

> Based upon your post, I would assume that you are
> under the assumption that the Great Pyramid could
> only have been built by aliens.

You aren't so very far off. I believe they were built by a different species called "homo sapiens". Egyptologists, you, and I are "homo omnisciencis". We know everything and they were wise.

> Such a hypothesis
> is both unfounded and unnecessary to even
> consider, especially given the fact that the
> Egyptians themselves possessed all of the
> necessary tools and technical expertize to
> construct massive stone structures.

And you base this on the existence of the pyramid. This is circular reasoning.

> Your claim
> that the inclusion of arsenic into the copper
> smelting process was "accidental" is entirely
> unconvincing.

I don't know. I'm no expert and not even a specialist. I'm just repeating what I believe is the state of the art in chemical analysis as it applies to ancient artefacts. I've actually had cause to dispute and investigate this but ran into dead end.

> Personally, I find it hard to
> believe that the very people who developed the
> most sophisticated civilization of the Bronze Age
> would not have known how to improve the strength
> and technical efficiency of the metals available
> to them.

I agree to some extent. More importantly I believe they said they used metal that could only have been bronze.

> At any rate, your assumption would seem
> to be negated by the fact that nearly all of the
> copper tools and weapons discovered from the Old
> Kingdom contain significant traces of arsenic.

There are always traces. The question is was there sufficient amount to strengthen the metal or to call it "bronze". If you know something I don't let me know.

> The
> copper tools of the Pyramid Age would have been
> more than capable of working limestone, and the
> addition of quartzite abrasives would have enabled
> the workmen to effectively cut through and shape
> the granite used to construct the King's Chamber
> and portcullises. Neither you nor anyone else on
> the fringe can deny that the Egyptian masons of
> the Old Kingdom employed the use of abrasives to
> work granite, dolerite, and other hard stone.

My knowledge here is extremely limited but I've seen several artefacts that are not explained by Egyptology.

> And as I posted above, all of this was done to
> build a tomb for a man who was believed to be a
> god. Contemporary linguistic and textual evidence
> from the Old Kingdom conclusively demonstrates
> that the Egyptians believed there king to have
> been a living god. The title "Hm.f," in fact
> literally means "His Incarnation." "NTR-NFR"
> translates to the "Good God." Each king also had a
> Horus Name which he chose upon his ascension to
> the throne. Khufu's was Hrw-Mdjw, which
> translates to the "Horus that Strikes."

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. But what they ACTUALLY SAID was that the king was the pyramid and the pyramid was composed of stone called "horuses".

Take it up with the writers.

> In
> addition, the Pyramid Texts, which provide our
> primary source for the religious beliefs of the
> Old Kingdom, prove the king was considered to be a
> god. And yes, he did hold the power over the life
> and death of his subjects in his hands. This is
> demonstrated by the Pyramid Texts themselves which
> declare concerning the king, "He whom he wills to
> live, shall live. He whom he wills to die, shall
> die."

No!

155b. "N. comes, an imperishable spirit, like the morning star over the Nile;
155c. the spirits in the waters adore him;
155d. whom he wills that he live, be lives; whom he wills that be die, he dies."

They are referring to a dead king here and a dead king never hurt anybody.

> I should let you know, that I am in fact a PhD
> candidate currently working towards his doctorate
> in Egyptology. And as such I am well aware of most
> of the available evidence concerning the royal
> ideologies and mortuary beliefs of the Old
> Kingdom. And believe it or not, as part of my
> university curriculum, I took a course which
> related all of the current fringe theories about
> ancient Egypt, and which trained me in the most
> effective ways to counter fringe arguments. I in
> fact wrote my class paper on Erich von Daniken's
> "Chariot of the Gods." He is an alternative
> theorist that I assume you and Open Mind hold in
> high regard.

It's always good to have help for the Egyptologists around here.

I don't think I've ever commented on Von Daniken except to say once I like his ideas about the ben ben. I've never read his books.

> As you can see, von Daniken doesn't
> know much of anything about ancient Egypt. This
> kind of puts a damper on his assertion that
> extraterrestrial visitors built the Great Pyramid
> or anything else on earth, wouldn't you agree?

I don't disagree. But even if I agreed it hardly changes the fact we don't really know how or why they were built. I wouldn't rule out aliens until we do know. I wouldn't rule out the possibility they charmed the stones into growing wings until we know. The odds of winged stones might be quite low but I've always wanted to make this argument. I believe I can make a better argument for flying stones than Egyptologists can make for ramps.

Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 1605 nellyjesus28 27-Nov-17 04:38
Mod Note > Topic Moved 345 Dr. Troglodyte 27-Nov-17 17:01
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 319 Usimare Setepenre 12-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 236 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 17:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 224 DUNE 14-Jan-18 18:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 242 Open mind 12-Jan-18 20:09
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 264 Barbelo 12-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 266 cladking 12-Jan-18 20:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 303 Usimare Setepenre 12-Jan-18 21:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 250 cladking 12-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 228 Barbelo 12-Jan-18 23:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 248 Open mind 12-Jan-18 23:54
Just Another Wacko Theory 248 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 00:31
Re: Just Another Wacko Theory 233 cladking 13-Jan-18 00:36
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 265 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 02:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 269 Open mind 13-Jan-18 02:44
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 225 John B 13-Jan-18 03:05
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 246 Open mind 13-Jan-18 03:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 221 John B 13-Jan-18 03:45
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 207 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:26
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 232 Audrey 13-Jan-18 04:27
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 208 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 198 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 218 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 200 Nemobutwhatiimagian 13-Jan-18 22:06
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 196 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:22
Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 279 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 03:04
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 243 John B 13-Jan-18 03:31
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 186 Barbelo 13-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Pyramid Text Explanations Are Superfluous 194 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 248 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:17
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 222 Audrey 13-Jan-18 04:26
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 224 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 04:57
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 224 Audrey 13-Jan-18 05:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 206 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 203 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 217 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 149 cladking 13-Jan-18 16:54
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 158 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:52
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 161 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:33
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 130 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 238 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 10:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 221 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 185 cladking 13-Jan-18 14:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 217 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 14:54
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 197 cladking 13-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 162 Origyptian 16-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 147 Jon Ellison 17-Jan-18 14:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 154 Origyptian 17-Jan-18 19:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 191 Jon Ellison 17-Jan-18 23:11
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 200 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 15:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 215 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 16:34
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 152 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 16:40
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 207 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 192 cladking 13-Jan-18 17:07
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 169 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:12
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 149 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 17:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 204 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:25
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 207 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 180 cladking 13-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 192 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 206 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 19:16
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 160 Audrey 13-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 227 Merrell 13-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 194 Audrey 13-Jan-18 21:51
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 190 eyeofhorus33 13-Jan-18 23:14
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 166 Audrey 13-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 193 cladking 13-Jan-18 16:08
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 178 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 19:38
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 205 Thanos5150 13-Jan-18 17:32
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 232 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 17:40
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 200 cladking 13-Jan-18 17:58
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 159 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 173 cladking 13-Jan-18 22:48
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 177 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:57
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 203 Jon Ellison 13-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 225 Rickard 13-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 191 Usimare Setepenre 13-Jan-18 22:23
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 159 Open mind 14-Jan-18 19:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 213 Thanos5150 14-Jan-18 00:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 208 cladking 14-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 208 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 03:17
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 217 Audrey 14-Jan-18 04:46
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 208 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 05:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 221 Audrey 14-Jan-18 06:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 173 Martin Stower 14-Jan-18 12:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 228 Usimare Setepenre 14-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 258 Open mind 14-Jan-18 20:01
Just Curious 215 WonderWho 14-Jan-18 12:56
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 181 Martin Stower 14-Jan-18 00:24
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 204 Thanos5150 14-Jan-18 00:30
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 158 Origyptian 14-Jan-18 18:44
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 234 Open mind 12-Jan-18 22:22
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 209 cladking 13-Jan-18 04:43
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 210 Audrey 13-Jan-18 05:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 187 kirass 18-Jan-18 14:03
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 134 Origyptian 18-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 201 Anonymous User 18-Jan-18 19:15
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 194 kirass 19-Jan-18 05:47
Re: Theory about why they built the pyramids. Mr Graham. 263 kirass 19-Jan-18 05:55


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.