> A great example of this is well documented by
> Wolfgang Helck in Untersuchungen zur Thintenzeit
> and it is in the Mouth-Opening Ritual.
> Robert Schoch and I are about to publish this a
> part of a somewhat related investigation. It'll be
> out in about a month and I can tell you it is most
> fascinating. Needless to say, the literal
> translation of the PT in this segment at least
> only scratches the surface of the actual meaning
> intended of which there are two discernible deeper
It does indeed sound interesting. I'm always very interested in what knowledgeable people such as yourself think of the language and its meaning. I'm always surprised how much meaning can be parsed out of an imparsable language. The human mind is simply geared to find meaning and does this on many levels at once so even if author intent is missed altogether there is still meaning that can be deduced. All of the translations appear to hit on aspects of what the authors were thinking!
> By the way Jim Allen acknowledges these
> deeper levels but concedes they are not always
> accessible from today's vantage point. Allen
> "The Pyramid Texts reflect not only an Egyptian
> vision of the afterlife but also the entire
> background of Old Kingdom religious and social
> structures, and they incorporate an ancient
> worldview much different from that of more
> familiar cultures. Two centuries of scholarship
> have allowed us to understand much of this
> background and worldview, but many of its aspects
> still remain obscure. Even in translation,
> therefore, the meaning of the texts and allusions
> within them are not always clear. I have tried to
> ameliorate this difficulty both by notes appended
> to the translations and by the Glossary at the end
> of the book; but such clarifications are not
> always possible in our current state of knowledge,
> and many passages or spells remain obscure. In
> such cases, I hope that the translation offered
> here will allow the reader to appreciate at least
> the language and flow of the texts, if not their
> precise import."
It might not seem so but I have a great deal of respect for James P Allen and his work. I'm normally forced to talk more about how wrong it is rather than what he gets right or the huge amount of scholarship that goes into it. But I am cognizant of the fact that his work takes far more knowledge, intelligence, and deduction than what I'm doing.
That he sees there are more levels here is very encouraging.
> So I think the problem isn't so much that there
> aren't Egyptologists who agree with your general
> thrust that the texts may have been misunderstood
> (see also Rolf Krauss for the astronomical
> angles), it's just that is not easy to prove so
> that all experts come on board.
I think bottom line is that no one is going to agree with me and work at it from my angle until it's proven they used funiculars or that there were geysers. None of this can happen until modern scientific knowledge is applied to the pyramids.
> Do the actual words used mean what
> you think they mean? What other meanings does the
> word mr have?
I'll look at this and consider it but to date There has been absolutely no communication on any level. At least I've understood nary a word from this source. I'm not sure there is any possible common ground.
> Edit: I can tell you this much: The English
> translation, or any other translation for that
> matter, is useless to get at these deeper levels.
> You actually have to work with the primary
> hieroglyphic text.
I do understand the weaknesses of my methods. But part of the problem here is that I seriously doubt that the translation methods are correct or even can be correct without understand the origins of the sceptres, glyphs, and icons themselves. For instance the "ankh", I believe, represents the water source in all its glory and means "life". I doubt it's possible to translate the language at all and it can't even be interpreted correctly without knowing these things. A literal translation would be interesting but the meaning won't appear in any language that can be parsed so no translation can ever be made into English and knowing why the ankh appears is necessary to its proper interpretation.
Thanks for the post. It's great to see you back.