> Corpuscles Wrote:
> > It does not take anymore than a very basic,
> > roughly accurate elevation and plan view of the
> > suggested construction technique for the
> > difficulties to stand out like proverbial 'big
> > dogs testicles'.
ck> I've been working on this for years. It would be
> a little surprising if anyone understood it in a
> few minutes. It's simple enough a caveman could
> do it but it's not easily visualized.
Yes. Apparently for a decade yet you obviously have not even managed to think through your own hypothesis thoroughly or properly draw it.
> > -Using a scale (in inches for you) 1 inch
> > 50 yards= 150' draw a triangle (pyramid in
> > elevation) of
> > 756 feet in base (bit over 5") and 480 feet in
> > vertical height (bit over 3") Rough enough
> > do for now.
> > -Draw faint lines representing 81'3" levels or
> > tiers from base (bit over half inch or .54 inch
> > precisely)
> > -Then draw in the 70deg tiers proposed (as
> > detailed in your responses below)
> > -Then using schoolboy rule project all points
> > downwards (you may need to sticky tape another
> > sheet) to produce a plan view. (It should look
> > like a big set of concentric squares)
> > Then note how little space is available for work
> > (stone block landing , funicular ropes, etc)
> > in the thin edges of the step pyramid,
> > It maybe beyond your pay grade but if you do
> > basic schoolboy trigonometry you will find that
> > such space works out to be 34- 39 feet (approx.
> > yards) depending on 70 or 72 degrees of tier
> > slope.
THis drawing is useless and does not even present the claims you have made recently in the thread.
> This is some 8 acres of work room. That's a far
> sight more than any ramp system and since the
> water is doing all the work they need far less
> work room. They had so much room to work they
> built half steps and cladded isolated areas to
> keep the boats and mines working.
The entire base of the Great pyramid covers 13 acres. To claim 8 acres of work room being 61.5% of the area is impossible and ridiculous! There is no overlap.
The reason why I suggested you draw your proposal starting with the to scale outline of the complete pyramid is as follows:
The top corner of each step that you propose of 81'3" has to be within a maximum of 1 metre or say 3' and more practically even .5metre or 18" from the desired final cladded casing exterior line. This is because to place the shaped tura casing stone (say the base of tier 5 being top of tier 4, then it has to have something to support it with the centre of gravity over the existing tier to stop it from tumbling down the face. I suggest if the original step tiers are 18" then the base of the casing could be say 4' wide meaning given angle say 52deg then would have to be circa 5.1 feet high and hypotenuse 6.5 feet. This would make the top level casing roughly a manageable 3-4 tons any bigger than that ,difficult at height but lower ones could be bigger.
You cannot indent the tiers to create extra workplace as then you have nothing to rest your "finished" 74' completed top level pyramid on. The edges will have nothing to support it.
Mind you as below you have no way of getting water up that high anyway!, other than human muscle carrying buckets of it up a 72deg slope or the RAMP cut into the tier for that arduous redundant exercise.
> > I will withhold comment on this part until you
> > draw the required diagram. Note I am not asking
> > you to post it via imgur or photobucket JUST
> > DRAW IT!!!
ck > Photobucket is deleting all my pictures and this
> is one of the last ones left.
Well forget Photobucket and find a different free hosting site. You must still have the original files?
Not essential to post just draw it and let me know when you have done so to scale and as precise and true to your explanations as possible.
I am trying to avoid the embarrassment of producing pictures of your ridiculous idea myself.
> > You struggle with trig but OK, for now let's
> > pretend I believe the geyser is possible.
> > HORROR!!!!)
> > Actually being 10' feet North of North face it
> > would require it to shoot 103 feet at least
ck> The water sprayed almost straight up and was
> caught in the upper eye of horus in the mehet
> weret directly overhead. It was then channeled
> the short distance to the pyramid.
Ok Lets pretend for now that happened.
> > The accepted final height was 480' 6". So if
> > press the buttons on the calculator carefully
> > slower you might realise your imagined top tier
> > would have to be 74' 3" rather than 79' .
> > - Your most forgivable and irrelevant mistake
ck> This would be a pretty serious error in my book.
> I haven't modeled this in a while but the steps on
> the great pyramids each had to be lower than the
> "3b3w". Using Petrie's course numbers I thought I
> came out at 79' for the pyramid on top, but you're
> right, this can wait for now.
No, it is a minor calculation mistake which you have failed to notice in the last 10years. However it is insignificant compared to the major mistakes in the basic essence of your construction concept rendering it impractical and impossible .
> > OK . Lets continue to imagine I accept the
> > It gets water to a vertical height of 81'3".
> > is a big lake. Note if it was 2.5 stone layers
> > deep then due to the specific gravity of
> > of approx. 2.5 (Water SG =1) then the entire
> > reserve would have enough water to raise ONLY
> > layer of stones. The geyser would have to
> > enormous output to not cause very considerable
> > time delay.
ck> Yes. Even mother nature had to strain a bit to
> build this thing in 20 years. Imagine what it
> wouldda done to bumpkins!
Even if at this stage we accept your geyser then all you have managed to do is propose an impractical method of water counterweights to build the first 81' of the pyramid requiring many ropes nearly 900 feet long!!!
However you have made the workplace wet. The spray from a unpredictable discharging geyser. It is not clear whether you want to build the retaining or enclosure wall around it soon after commencement but that would be a disaster as workers and stone would have to tread water in a big swimming pool or build a ramp over the pool! All workers exposed to the risk of constant spray of carbonic acid and other stinky sulphur compounds common to cold water geysers as per the youtube vid you posted earlier.
Crystal Geyser Utah
ANY INTERESTED READER: For a laugh scroll to the 3min 14 sec mark!
I had not intended to bring this point to the table yet but I am tiring of reading and addressing your mad idea:
The "henu" boats which you think were the containers for the counterweight water need to hold the equivalent of at least 3 tons of water. Average size of G1 block is 2.5 tons so some ARE much bigger.
3 tons of water is 3 cubic metres. Say 3m (10') long 1m (3') wide and high.
What are you going to make them out of .....wood?
You are suggesting that the counterweights raise the stones like swallows flying (Barbelo's favourite of your BS!) From 81 feet even allowing for the friction on the ropes and some form of braking mechanism the wooden boats have to withstand constant crashing to ground from height, loaded with at least 2.5 tons.
Now I realise you are not at all technical or experienced in construction so let me give you an analogy.
Take your motor vehicle say 2 tons and crate it up with big solid timbers then just raise it say JUST 10 feet in the air and have it drop to the ground repetitively. How long before the crate is smashed to smithereens?
ck> The eruption was nearly continuous. In the early
> stages they could save appreciable quantities on
> the pyramid at night but as the first step
> approached 81' 3" this quantity was greatly
> reduced. But by the time the first step was done
> a large percentage of total lifting was complete.
> They weren't helpless without an eruption since
> water could be relifted by hand. Indeed, it
> appears they used the north and west sides for
> this as well as the grand gallery. So long as they
> had water in the ssm.t to bring stone from the
> quarry they could lift more to operate the pyramid
> counterweights. Remember the oryx on the henu
> boat. They were saying they didn't need much
> stinkin' water.
You are unable to describe how water can get any higher than 81' So they had to carry all water the equivalent of 4 million tons of it up the steep step pyramid to keep your fantasy alive. No advantage there at all. Constantly replacing and re-adjusting ropes and smashed water containers at great height.
It is convenient that you imagine a near continuous erupting geyser. However by their very nature ( Edit 2: Cold water CO2 geyser), although extremely rare on planet Earth, cannot erupt continuously and the two largest ones in existence today do so on average every 8 hours or so!
> The entire project would have required only some
> 400 acre feet of water or 20 acre feet per year.
> This would be a lot for any modern geyser but they
> knew far more about geysers than we do and had
> centuries of experience maximizing the flow and
> the efficiency of the operation.
The project lifting all stone by water requires 6.5 billion litres of water or 325 million litres per year.
That is the 'captured' usable stuff. No geyser ever (even in the wildest of imaginations) could provide that flow rate! Let alone sustain it regularly and reliably.
> > MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION.
> > How does the water get higher up the
> > pyramid the remaining circa 400feet!!! to
> > operate the "counterweight funiculars"?????
> It's best to think of the answer as "3b3w" however
> it appears that at G1 they shuttled some water to
> 340'. I'd guess if they went to so much work to
> relay water up 70 or 80' at a time it was an
> important reason though I haven't yet deduced this
Exactly! 10 years of blathering and bothering on about your hypothesis and you have no other solution than they carry water up from 81' level.
This is what you said recently to poster "Mike D" (Retired Engineer -France)
with regard J P Houdin's hypothesis:
Cladking to Mike D
If they actually used a counterweight in the GG as, I believe, Houdin proposes then this counterweight had to be reset after each use; it had to be lifted back to its starting position. This by definition would require more total work than just moving the original load by hand. There is no way to cheat gravity.
You highlight the absurdity of carrying a counterweight up to drop down. Same work effort required just in more manageable chunks and many more trips.
EDIT*: It is not absurd in Houdin's proposal. He gives good reason for the ability to create efficiency in his method
And again same thread
Cladking to Mike D
Houdin's system is entirely muscle based. The problem with muscle based systems is the difficulty of applying so much muscle in the limited work area
The criticisms you make of Houdin's hypothesis are even more applicable to your own clumsy impractical unworkable insane fantasy!
This thread -30 days of madness
ck> Don't think of the water being over 80' (it was
> but this will just confuse things). They used
> the water at 80' to lift the stones to the top of
> the first step. But then all they had to do was
> shorten the ropes a bit and they could lift the
> stones even higher and start a second step. This
> was Imhotep's idea in all probability. Think of
> all the counterweights falling from 80' and the
> stones being pulled up one step at a time. Of
> course they'd fill up large parts of the step top
> before repositioning the ropes to pull them up to
> the second step top. Using the east and west main
> counterweights on the north side they could easily
> pull them up one step after another to minimize
> the amount of staging on steps.
This makes no sense at all and I am really trying my utmost to understand your hypothesis .
If you mean the water counterweights continue to drop 81' from the first layer THEN you would need to lengthen the ropes . To get stone to the top the ropes would need to be a staggering approx. 1000 feet long!
However once the second tier commences as explained earlier (refer to your drawing and basic trigonometry calculations) there is only a slim band approximately 12 yards wide of work space left on tier one and some , only part of that can be unused as workspace for your "lake" of water reserve caught to act as counter weight.
> > Very good. It would be complicated by the
> > on the incline and the angle but are not you
> > talking about a RAMP!?
ck > If I use that word people will picture individuals
> with tinea and superstitions slipping and sliding
> on greasy sloped surfaces but no stones were ever
> lifted by men to build these. The slopes were
> quite slippery and only about 5 degrees.
You have the whole worksite drenched in water for 20 years!
As for this insane ranting about "superstition" !!!!
You think or suggest the whole reason AE went to all this trouble to build a pyramid was to have some weird ascension ceremony and cremation on just the first tier!
Cladking - in this thread
Obviously this ceremony involved loading the king on the ascender so that he could be transported to the pyre on the first step. Most everything else as far as details has to be guessed at. It appears to have been on the 5th day of the w3g-festival after the unpacking of the fire-pan from anubis' chest ceremony.
> > How the feck did the builders do it (G3 and
> > thereafter) without water? What........OMG
> > dragging stones up RAMPS ????
ck> I'm guessing they replaced atum with muscle power
> for G3 and after this they built them with ramps.
> It doesn't so much matter how they built the piles
> of rubble. Even though they required more human
> toil and sweat than real pyramids they are well
> within human capabilities.
Years and years of ranting about ramps and here you are claiming that apart from some (one pyramid or a few) of the hundred or so in Egypt they used RAMPS!
You ought see by now that your hypothesis is INSANE, ridiculous, and cannot be made to work even if all accepted that that is how we would like it to have been built.
DRAW IT !!!!!!
EDit" Noted above
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 22-Feb-18 15:39 by Corpuscles.