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Thanks for your answer on the bee and sedge, Manu. Stirred by all the points and incredibly beautiful images (all agreed on that at least!), my Sumero-imbued, sleep-on-it take on the three symbols of the Ibis (as shown in Manu's post here) goes like this. Please bear with the temporary premise that there are no borders between Egypt and Mesopotamia:

The Ankh is a combination of two Sumerian symbols: ME, the spirit, and HI, the passageway, giving its name or one of them to be Mehi, the passage of the spirit on its journey to enlightenment. There’s a very interesting Old Syrian seal in the Met which mixes iconography of Mesopotamia and Egypt, although they don’t make any case of it in their blurb which is thoroughly Egyptian. (Accession Number:1991.368.5) Is Syria a disregarded link?

The ibis holds a tool in its right hand where the Djed is signified as four strokes across the rod of the Was. We already discussed djed shortly with Thanos as resembling Sumerian NUN. NUN has the main meaning of the otherworld. Here the four stripes represent the four ways of the heavens, the four noble truths of Buddhism leading to enlightenment. Taoism and Buddhism permeate the Sumerian texts and come from much older sources than commonly thought. Here they are represented as obstacles across the rod, to be overcome on the journey. The rod, spiralling or straight, is the path up which slide the snakes (and the spun fibres) between the earth and the sky. I daresay someone will point out the djed with a different number – the NUN too - but this is not a thesis, just a jogging down of the thoughts after reading you and others here.

The needle’s eye, more clearly seen at the base of the identical but spiralling djam, represents the difficulty to begin this journey, and has come down to us as the parable of the rich man. The forked element on other instruments has the meaning of the two ways, duality, the two cords of the womb (discussed on the AoM). Both are also to be found in the twisted or fused tails of the two great lions in quite a lot of Egyptian images.

In Sumerian iconography, there exists a cylinder seal with a single seated dog who has a similar needle eye in the middle of its tail. I would surmise that the Sumerian equivalent is the symbol KUN, the tail of the dog (verified by ePSD and by me in a proverb) but also the weir, built to regulate the passage of the flow, and so a line that divides but always comes back together eventually. A picture of KUN is quite difficult to find in the earliest version, but it appears to be a vertical line rising out of a net, perhaps a piece of woven material, and the head is just a line across but possibly the same angle as the spinnekrok.

The head of the Was is, as you say, a head. It’s the head of the dog/wolf, but a cosmic animal since this is a cosmic and spiritual story. I would guess that it’s Sirius. So in my version there is no body or spine, only the forked tail up and down which glide the serpents or the earthly energies. I’ll take it one step further since I’m already treading on dangerous waters with you all here…the rod of the was is also the combined tails of the two Great Lions of Giza, regulators of the waters and of the spiritual journey. None of this negates my original theory of the overall form of the was being that of the spinnekrok, but the Weaver is a particularly great one!

Despite appearances, I have respect for all of your theories. This is just one to add to the pile of loose threads. Everything always comes back to the warp, the loom, and the weaving of the cosmic fabric. Just my opinion.

Madeleine

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 2277 MDaines 22-Oct-17 11:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 554 cladking 22-Oct-17 13:32
Egyptian Thoth gave technology around the world 625 Howard West 22-Oct-17 15:04
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 562 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 510 Howard West 23-Oct-17 00:58
Djet's Comb 543 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Djet's Comb 518 MDaines 26-Oct-17 18:20
Re: Djet's Comb 540 Manu 26-Oct-17 20:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 563 cladking 22-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 483 MDaines 22-Oct-17 16:50
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 525 cladking 22-Oct-17 18:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 463 MDaines 22-Oct-17 19:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 591 Thanos5150 22-Oct-17 23:21
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 516 MDaines 23-Oct-17 08:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 706 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:03
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 485 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 507 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:29
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 463 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 23:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 518 Manu 24-Oct-17 01:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 475 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 02:06
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 487 R Avry Wilson 24-Oct-17 02:59
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 559 eyeofhorus33 24-Oct-17 09:46
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 458 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 16:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 463 Manu 23-Oct-17 01:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 475 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 524 Manu 23-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 507 MDaines 23-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 472 Manu 23-Oct-17 16:35
The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 745 MDaines 24-Oct-17 11:21
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 466 Manu 24-Oct-17 15:34
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 462 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:37
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 438 Manu 25-Oct-17 14:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 440 Reagent 23-Oct-17 01:57
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 463 cladking 23-Oct-17 02:40
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 491 Reagent 23-Oct-17 03:58
Tayet 480 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 487 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:27
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 465 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 486 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:50
Isler’s Gnomon Progression 599 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Oct-17 22:25
Re: Isler’s Gnomon Progression 432 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 583 Manu 23-Oct-17 21:12
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 429 MDaines 25-Oct-17 15:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 489 Manu 25-Oct-17 19:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 421 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 02:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 449 Manu 26-Oct-17 04:14
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 450 R Avry Wilson 26-Oct-17 05:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 421 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 443 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 05:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 502 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:07
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 447 cladking 26-Oct-17 13:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 568 Manu 26-Oct-17 14:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 561 Broker 31-Oct-17 01:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 480 MDaines 31-Oct-17 11:26
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 519 Broker 31-Oct-17 19:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 591 Broker 31-Oct-17 23:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 488 MDaines 01-Nov-17 13:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 468 Broker 02-Nov-17 00:13
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 418 MDaines 02-Nov-17 11:19
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 410 Broker 03-Nov-17 02:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 529 Broker 03-Nov-17 18:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 535 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 06:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 422 MDaines 02-Nov-17 12:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 421 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:25
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 487 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 422 Broker 03-Nov-17 03:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 428 Thanos5150 03-Nov-17 03:55
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 419 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 476 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:36
Why is it important? 498 MDaines 04-Nov-17 10:57
Perhaps it was Isis! 561 Eddie Larry 04-Nov-17 15:59
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 413 MDaines 05-Nov-17 17:57
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 545 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-17 18:17


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