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R Avry Wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I said "as far as I can tell", meaning I am not
> > "100%" sure, it was "all but", meaning not
> > completely. I base this on countless hours of
> > looking at OK art and writing and not seeing it.
> I
> > also gave an example of an icon that may be
> > conflated with it leaving the possibility it
> may
> > have changed form through the years though I
> > discount this possibility. The only examples
> from
> > the 3D-OK I have seen are Wadi Maghara, one of
> > which Manu linked.
> >
> > But by all means, please give other examples
> you
> > may know of.
>
> Just trying to follow along. :)
>
> You suggest (not 100%, ok)

I am not "suggesting", I am stating "as far as I can tell", given I have not seen every single artifact from this period, that what I am saying, "as far as I can tell", is true. But, again, by all means please provide examples otherwise.

> this tool seems to have
> disappeared from use for 5-6 centuries,

Can you quote me where I said the tool itself disappeared? What I said was:
Quote

Regarding the depictions of the Was sceptre from the MK on, I do not believe they understood what it originally was, its meaning ancient and lost in their time, and warped not only its meaning but its physical form having based their depictions on literal observation unaware it was actually shown in forced perspective.
[Emphasis mine]

What I see is that the representations of the Was Sceptre in later times seem quite distorted from its original intent regardless of whether or not the tool fell out of use at any point in between. Does, say, this look like a surveying tool to you:


Having any relation to this:


It seems quite suggestive that regardless of the continued use of the tool, or not, if it even was a surveying tool as we have no idea, the understanding of the iconography changed dramatically in later times becoming something else entirely. The MK was certainly a "revivalist" period in which much of the older iconography seemed to be reinvigorated and to some degree reinterpreted.

And actually, it's not just that its use from the 3rd Dynasty to MK is sparse, almost non-existent, the same is true before this time with the early Dynastic examples I show some of the only ones found which even then is an assumption on my part that others in fact were found. So to that end, if anything, I would amend my previous statement by saying that it did not in fact go out of disuse in the 3rd Dynasty-MK, but was never prominent to begin with to where by the MK, not only was its original meaning lost, but was reinvented as an integral part of the AE symbolic cannon.

> and base
> this on the amount of available images you've
> seen. Is this correct?

Which is no small thing given what is available to me is not necessarily obtained by most others, but by all means you or anyone else please provide examples otherwise.

> Meanwhile, should we disregard the absolute
> obsession with the sun and stars during this
> 'missing' time frame, in which activities
> themselves would suggest they would have continued
> to employ these tools?

Not at all.

> So they completely forgot
> about this item only to stumble across the same
> applicable use centuries later? Thus, my doubt for
> your suggestion (regardless of how images I can
> summon) comes from ample testimony of explicit sky
> worship throughout.
>
> What are your thoughts?

Among other things at the moment:

1) We have no idea what it originally was. A surveying tool seems practical to me, but I concede it is just a possibility.

2) Its use prior to the MK is unusually sparse compared to the prominence given to it from the MK onward.

3) Its meaning and importance from the MK onward seems clearly at odds with what came before implying it took on a meaning it otherwise did not originally have which suggests to me they were not fully aware and/or warped its original intent.

And as far as your "regardless of how [many] images I can summon", being none, does not mean its lack of use prior to the MK does not require explanation as well as does the starkly different representation, apparently "meaning", of it from before and after this period. I think your logic actually goes a long way to suggesting it was not the tool we both seem to think it was and instead something else entirely-something whose meaning could be forgotten and/or warped from its original intent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24-Oct-17 03:20 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 2463 MDaines 22-Oct-17 11:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 620 cladking 22-Oct-17 13:32
Egyptian Thoth gave technology around the world 717 Howard West 22-Oct-17 15:04
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 628 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 568 Howard West 23-Oct-17 00:58
Djet's Comb 599 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Djet's Comb 572 MDaines 26-Oct-17 18:20
Re: Djet's Comb 611 Manu 26-Oct-17 20:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 622 cladking 22-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 539 MDaines 22-Oct-17 16:50
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 581 cladking 22-Oct-17 18:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 515 MDaines 22-Oct-17 19:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 673 Thanos5150 22-Oct-17 23:21
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 578 MDaines 23-Oct-17 08:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 801 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:03
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 550 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 563 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:29
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 516 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 23:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 578 Manu 24-Oct-17 01:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 545 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 02:06
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 542 R Avry Wilson 24-Oct-17 02:59
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 613 eyeofhorus33 24-Oct-17 09:46
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 530 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 16:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 514 Manu 23-Oct-17 01:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 537 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 578 Manu 23-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 566 MDaines 23-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 532 Manu 23-Oct-17 16:35
The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 846 MDaines 24-Oct-17 11:21
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 518 Manu 24-Oct-17 15:34
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 524 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:37
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 490 Manu 25-Oct-17 14:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 496 Reagent 23-Oct-17 01:57
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 521 cladking 23-Oct-17 02:40
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 553 Reagent 23-Oct-17 03:58
Tayet 540 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 554 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:27
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 515 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 536 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:50
Isler’s Gnomon Progression 673 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Oct-17 22:25
Re: Isler’s Gnomon Progression 495 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 656 Manu 23-Oct-17 21:12
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 478 MDaines 25-Oct-17 15:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 553 Manu 25-Oct-17 19:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 478 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 02:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 503 Manu 26-Oct-17 04:14
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 516 R Avry Wilson 26-Oct-17 05:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 488 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 505 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 05:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 566 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:07
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 506 cladking 26-Oct-17 13:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 621 Manu 26-Oct-17 14:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 610 Broker 31-Oct-17 01:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 544 MDaines 31-Oct-17 11:26
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 613 Broker 31-Oct-17 19:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 688 Broker 31-Oct-17 23:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 575 MDaines 01-Nov-17 13:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 529 Broker 02-Nov-17 00:13
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 477 MDaines 02-Nov-17 11:19
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 476 Broker 03-Nov-17 02:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 581 Broker 03-Nov-17 18:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 588 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 06:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 486 MDaines 02-Nov-17 12:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 479 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:25
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 557 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 482 Broker 03-Nov-17 03:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 482 Thanos5150 03-Nov-17 03:55
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 478 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 531 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:36
Why is it important? 559 MDaines 04-Nov-17 10:57
Perhaps it was Isis! 621 Eddie Larry 04-Nov-17 15:59
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 467 MDaines 05-Nov-17 17:57
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 604 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-17 18:17


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