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Hello Madeleine.

MDaines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Easy research on internet shows that it wasn’t
> only Thoth linked to this tool. I have no
> specialist knowledge of ancient Egyptian imagery,
> and haven’t gone into the subject to any depth.
> Perhaps the above hypothesis has already been put
> forward and rejected thanks to substantiated
> arguments unknown to me. But I would be
> interested to know. Thanks.

Djet, 1st Dynasty:


Helwan, 1st Dynasty:


2nd Dynasty:


Middle Kingdom:


New Kingdom:


Late Period:


To my knowledge the earliest depiction of the Was sceptre was in the 1st Dynasty. What is interesting to me is that it all but disappears from 3rd Dynasty through Old Kingdom iconography where at some point in the Middle Kingdom and onward becomes part and parcel of AE symbolism seemingly twisted into a different form, namely with an animal head. There is a staff depicted in the 3rd-OK, which kind of sorta looks like it, but to me not really especially considering there was no confusion from the MK onward. Saqqra, 3rd Dynasty. 4th symbol over from top left:

Large.

This may be conflated with a version of the Was sceptre but I think it's a stretch.

Regardless, if you look at the archaic depictions, I do not believe the top "t" is meant to be at an angle on the same plane as the the "prong" at the bottom, but rather is depicted in forced perspective. Meaning in reality the "t" is on a horizontal and parallel plane to the prong. Imagine this: T : with the open prong facing us on the bottom.

Regarding the depictions of the Was sceptre from the MK on, I do not believe they understood what it originally was, its meaning ancient and lost in their time, and warped not only its meaning but its physical form having based their depictions on literal observation unaware it was actually shown in forced perspective.

Of further interest is that while the Was sceptre, ankh, djed pillar are all found in the 1st Dynasty, you will not find them depicted on any of the palettes or tokens associated with the first kings implying whatever the Was scepter was that was so important to Djet was not shared by those before him. Again:


I'm not sure what this disconnect means, but it means something.

My opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that the Was sceptre was originally a tool related to either astronomy and/or surveying and the meaning it had to later AE from the MK onward had little or nothing to do with its original purpose. I think further evidence of this is that as far as I can tell the iconography of the Was sceptre was all but abandoned from the 3rd Dynasty-OK which makes for quite a leap of dormancy in understanding.

As far as any relation to weaving, I know of none in any period and unless we have completely missed the supreme monumental importance of weaving in 3,000yrs of AE culture, it stands to reason it would not be prominently displayed as a symbol of power for the pharaohs, gods, and apparently mysticism in general.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22-Oct-17 23:22 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 2283 MDaines 22-Oct-17 11:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 555 cladking 22-Oct-17 13:32
Egyptian Thoth gave technology around the world 627 Howard West 22-Oct-17 15:04
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 563 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 512 Howard West 23-Oct-17 00:58
Djet's Comb 544 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Djet's Comb 519 MDaines 26-Oct-17 18:20
Re: Djet's Comb 541 Manu 26-Oct-17 20:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 563 cladking 22-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 484 MDaines 22-Oct-17 16:50
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 526 cladking 22-Oct-17 18:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 464 MDaines 22-Oct-17 19:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 592 Thanos5150 22-Oct-17 23:21
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 517 MDaines 23-Oct-17 08:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 711 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:03
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 486 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 508 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:29
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 464 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 23:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 520 Manu 24-Oct-17 01:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 476 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 02:06
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 487 R Avry Wilson 24-Oct-17 02:59
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 560 eyeofhorus33 24-Oct-17 09:46
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 460 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 16:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 464 Manu 23-Oct-17 01:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 476 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 524 Manu 23-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 508 MDaines 23-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 472 Manu 23-Oct-17 16:35
The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 749 MDaines 24-Oct-17 11:21
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 466 Manu 24-Oct-17 15:34
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 462 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:37
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 439 Manu 25-Oct-17 14:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 440 Reagent 23-Oct-17 01:57
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 464 cladking 23-Oct-17 02:40
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 492 Reagent 23-Oct-17 03:58
Tayet 481 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 487 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:27
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 465 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 487 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:50
Isler’s Gnomon Progression 600 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Oct-17 22:25
Re: Isler’s Gnomon Progression 432 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 584 Manu 23-Oct-17 21:12
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 429 MDaines 25-Oct-17 15:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 490 Manu 25-Oct-17 19:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 422 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 02:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 450 Manu 26-Oct-17 04:14
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 450 R Avry Wilson 26-Oct-17 05:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 422 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 444 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 05:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 502 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:07
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 447 cladking 26-Oct-17 13:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 569 Manu 26-Oct-17 14:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 561 Broker 31-Oct-17 01:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 482 MDaines 31-Oct-17 11:26
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 520 Broker 31-Oct-17 19:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 593 Broker 31-Oct-17 23:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 488 MDaines 01-Nov-17 13:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 469 Broker 02-Nov-17 00:13
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 418 MDaines 02-Nov-17 11:19
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 410 Broker 03-Nov-17 02:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 530 Broker 03-Nov-17 18:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 535 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 06:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 422 MDaines 02-Nov-17 12:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 421 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:25
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 488 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 424 Broker 03-Nov-17 03:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 428 Thanos5150 03-Nov-17 03:55
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 419 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 479 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:36
Why is it important? 500 MDaines 04-Nov-17 10:57
Perhaps it was Isis! 562 Eddie Larry 04-Nov-17 15:59
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 414 MDaines 05-Nov-17 17:57
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 547 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-17 18:17


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