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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do not consider systematically that any spot
> between ruts is a trace of hauling animal track.
> It seems clear that in many cases, there are no
> traces between the ruts pairs. On the other hand,
> in other places in Malta (that I saw only on
> photos)they are clearly visible. So to me, we can
> discuss until end of times, the point remains
> open.
> In Malta, it seems that you can find evidence of
> cart animal hauling as well as evidence of no such
> animal traction. In some places (in book "Cart
> ruts and their impact on Maltese landscape", photo
> pages 34-35) you can see both types in the same
> area, with and without. So what?

I, too, agree that the mystery remains. My only point in rebuttal is that all of the physical evidence must be taken into account, not just the ruts that show a shallower erosion between them. And so while some tracks that include erosion between them might imply power supplieid by beasts of burden, we also must be able to explain why other tracks show no such erosion between them. My suggestion was that the tracks with no erosion between them implies that it wasn't necessary to include beasts of burden as the power supply, and so perhaps the tracks that DO have erosion between them might simply indicate that humans used those tracks as guidelines to delineate human walking paths that were established long after the "cart ruts" were formed, and that those tracks both with and without a central eroded region might not really be any different in character.


> I only said that in the case of Clapham Junction,
> which I consider to be an ancient quarry, it is
> quite inconclusive considering how messy and
> eroded is the whole terrain, including the ruts
> themselves.
> In many cases, you just cannot ask "animal central
> tracks? yes or no". Just random holes, bumps and
> cracks.
>
> This is what you see when starting visiting the
> site from the public parking after entrance, at
> the level of "eastfield farmhouse", no clear
> patterns and conclusive evidences (in addition you
> constantly have to look where you put the feet):
> [www.electricyouniverse.com]

However, other tracks are present in less eroded areas of bedrock and there seems to be no clear erosion between them despite the far smoother surface which would more likely show such erosion if beasts of burden were routinely used to haul such heavy loads.


> But this explanation suits only in a quarry with
> moderate slopes like Clapham Junction. Elsewhere,
> I just can't say. Do you understand my point?
> Did they have "railruts" hand cars? :)
> [www.railroadhandcar.com]

I think I understand. But this still doesn't seem to address the apparent non-horizontal slope of those "benches" with the cross striations, it doesn't address the apparent lack of wider tracks on curves to accommodate the wheel radius, it doesn't address why some tracks on horizontal ground show erosion between them while others do not, and it doesn't address the sidewall grinding that would occur on wheels that supported a heavy load along deep ruts in bedrock.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1792 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 448 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 351 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 427 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 353 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 270 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 253 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 271 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 262 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 242 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 251 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 250 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 210 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 255 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 225 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 232 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 241 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 191 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 180 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 312 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 173 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 217 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 154 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 239 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 252 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 310 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 173 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 255 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 264 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 213 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 245 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 240 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 234 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 303 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 256 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 215 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 183 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 174 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 199 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 185 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 176 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 191 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 182 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 187 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 158 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 171 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 240 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 144 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 337 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 245 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 183 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 157 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 193 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 218 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 166 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 260 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 171 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 287 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 174 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 170 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 169 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 180 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 149 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 150 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 170 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 174 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 269 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 193 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 126 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 149 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 304 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 155 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 272 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 155 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 138 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 387 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 177 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 392 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 203 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 192 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 152 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 242 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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