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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do not consider systematically that any spot
> between ruts is a trace of hauling animal track.
> It seems clear that in many cases, there are no
> traces between the ruts pairs. On the other hand,
> in other places in Malta (that I saw only on
> photos)they are clearly visible. So to me, we can
> discuss until end of times, the point remains
> open.
> In Malta, it seems that you can find evidence of
> cart animal hauling as well as evidence of no such
> animal traction. In some places (in book "Cart
> ruts and their impact on Maltese landscape", photo
> pages 34-35) you can see both types in the same
> area, with and without. So what?

I, too, agree that the mystery remains. My only point in rebuttal is that all of the physical evidence must be taken into account, not just the ruts that show a shallower erosion between them. And so while some tracks that include erosion between them might imply power supplieid by beasts of burden, we also must be able to explain why other tracks show no such erosion between them. My suggestion was that the tracks with no erosion between them implies that it wasn't necessary to include beasts of burden as the power supply, and so perhaps the tracks that DO have erosion between them might simply indicate that humans used those tracks as guidelines to delineate human walking paths that were established long after the "cart ruts" were formed, and that those tracks both with and without a central eroded region might not really be any different in character.


> I only said that in the case of Clapham Junction,
> which I consider to be an ancient quarry, it is
> quite inconclusive considering how messy and
> eroded is the whole terrain, including the ruts
> themselves.
> In many cases, you just cannot ask "animal central
> tracks? yes or no". Just random holes, bumps and
> cracks.
>
> This is what you see when starting visiting the
> site from the public parking after entrance, at
> the level of "eastfield farmhouse", no clear
> patterns and conclusive evidences (in addition you
> constantly have to look where you put the feet):
> [www.electricyouniverse.com]

However, other tracks are present in less eroded areas of bedrock and there seems to be no clear erosion between them despite the far smoother surface which would more likely show such erosion if beasts of burden were routinely used to haul such heavy loads.


> But this explanation suits only in a quarry with
> moderate slopes like Clapham Junction. Elsewhere,
> I just can't say. Do you understand my point?
> Did they have "railruts" hand cars? :)
> [www.railroadhandcar.com]

I think I understand. But this still doesn't seem to address the apparent non-horizontal slope of those "benches" with the cross striations, it doesn't address the apparent lack of wider tracks on curves to accommodate the wheel radius, it doesn't address why some tracks on horizontal ground show erosion between them while others do not, and it doesn't address the sidewall grinding that would occur on wheels that supported a heavy load along deep ruts in bedrock.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1647 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 372 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 301 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 347 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 297 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 210 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 210 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 214 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 212 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 202 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 204 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 200 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 170 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 199 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 179 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 186 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 186 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 142 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 136 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 269 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 133 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 172 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 109 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 190 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 196 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 248 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 136 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 218 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 222 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 179 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 196 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 181 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 255 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 216 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 160 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 134 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 104 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 134 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 141 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 140 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 136 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 140 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 133 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 141 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 151 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 144 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 117 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 170 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 129 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 207 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 196 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 106 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 259 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 171 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 128 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 108 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 138 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 114 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 215 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 130 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 153 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 126 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 130 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 121 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 116 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 129 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 153 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 112 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 116 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 136 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 106 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 95 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 119 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 76 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 89 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 242 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 106 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 109 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 117 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 102 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 115 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 95 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 283 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 123 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 292 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 154 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 98 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 176 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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