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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do not consider systematically that any spot
> between ruts is a trace of hauling animal track.
> It seems clear that in many cases, there are no
> traces between the ruts pairs. On the other hand,
> in other places in Malta (that I saw only on
> photos)they are clearly visible. So to me, we can
> discuss until end of times, the point remains
> open.
> In Malta, it seems that you can find evidence of
> cart animal hauling as well as evidence of no such
> animal traction. In some places (in book "Cart
> ruts and their impact on Maltese landscape", photo
> pages 34-35) you can see both types in the same
> area, with and without. So what?

I, too, agree that the mystery remains. My only point in rebuttal is that all of the physical evidence must be taken into account, not just the ruts that show a shallower erosion between them. And so while some tracks that include erosion between them might imply power supplieid by beasts of burden, we also must be able to explain why other tracks show no such erosion between them. My suggestion was that the tracks with no erosion between them implies that it wasn't necessary to include beasts of burden as the power supply, and so perhaps the tracks that DO have erosion between them might simply indicate that humans used those tracks as guidelines to delineate human walking paths that were established long after the "cart ruts" were formed, and that those tracks both with and without a central eroded region might not really be any different in character.


> I only said that in the case of Clapham Junction,
> which I consider to be an ancient quarry, it is
> quite inconclusive considering how messy and
> eroded is the whole terrain, including the ruts
> themselves.
> In many cases, you just cannot ask "animal central
> tracks? yes or no". Just random holes, bumps and
> cracks.
>
> This is what you see when starting visiting the
> site from the public parking after entrance, at
> the level of "eastfield farmhouse", no clear
> patterns and conclusive evidences (in addition you
> constantly have to look where you put the feet):
> [www.electricyouniverse.com]

However, other tracks are present in less eroded areas of bedrock and there seems to be no clear erosion between them despite the far smoother surface which would more likely show such erosion if beasts of burden were routinely used to haul such heavy loads.


> But this explanation suits only in a quarry with
> moderate slopes like Clapham Junction. Elsewhere,
> I just can't say. Do you understand my point?
> Did they have "railruts" hand cars? :)
> [www.railroadhandcar.com]

I think I understand. But this still doesn't seem to address the apparent non-horizontal slope of those "benches" with the cross striations, it doesn't address the apparent lack of wider tracks on curves to accommodate the wheel radius, it doesn't address why some tracks on horizontal ground show erosion between them while others do not, and it doesn't address the sidewall grinding that would occur on wheels that supported a heavy load along deep ruts in bedrock.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1917 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 523 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 394 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 493 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 404 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 329 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 307 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 319 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 315 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 276 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 298 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 294 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 250 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 306 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 277 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 278 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 284 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 239 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 224 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 344 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 205 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 257 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 207 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 297 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 304 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 359 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 207 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 307 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 325 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 247 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 288 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 292 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 278 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 355 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 333 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 262 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 240 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 190 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 208 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 239 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 233 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 242 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 228 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 204 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 340 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 276 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 203 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 390 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 289 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 234 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 265 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 217 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 303 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 343 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 222 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 205 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 207 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 247 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 314 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 238 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 355 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 230 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 336 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 227 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 191 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 236 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 215 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 193 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 224 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 482 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 222 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 225 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 450 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 250 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 213 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 274 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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