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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do not consider systematically that any spot
> between ruts is a trace of hauling animal track.
> It seems clear that in many cases, there are no
> traces between the ruts pairs. On the other hand,
> in other places in Malta (that I saw only on
> photos)they are clearly visible. So to me, we can
> discuss until end of times, the point remains
> open.
> In Malta, it seems that you can find evidence of
> cart animal hauling as well as evidence of no such
> animal traction. In some places (in book "Cart
> ruts and their impact on Maltese landscape", photo
> pages 34-35) you can see both types in the same
> area, with and without. So what?

I, too, agree that the mystery remains. My only point in rebuttal is that all of the physical evidence must be taken into account, not just the ruts that show a shallower erosion between them. And so while some tracks that include erosion between them might imply power supplieid by beasts of burden, we also must be able to explain why other tracks show no such erosion between them. My suggestion was that the tracks with no erosion between them implies that it wasn't necessary to include beasts of burden as the power supply, and so perhaps the tracks that DO have erosion between them might simply indicate that humans used those tracks as guidelines to delineate human walking paths that were established long after the "cart ruts" were formed, and that those tracks both with and without a central eroded region might not really be any different in character.


> I only said that in the case of Clapham Junction,
> which I consider to be an ancient quarry, it is
> quite inconclusive considering how messy and
> eroded is the whole terrain, including the ruts
> themselves.
> In many cases, you just cannot ask "animal central
> tracks? yes or no". Just random holes, bumps and
> cracks.
>
> This is what you see when starting visiting the
> site from the public parking after entrance, at
> the level of "eastfield farmhouse", no clear
> patterns and conclusive evidences (in addition you
> constantly have to look where you put the feet):
> [www.electricyouniverse.com]

However, other tracks are present in less eroded areas of bedrock and there seems to be no clear erosion between them despite the far smoother surface which would more likely show such erosion if beasts of burden were routinely used to haul such heavy loads.


> But this explanation suits only in a quarry with
> moderate slopes like Clapham Junction. Elsewhere,
> I just can't say. Do you understand my point?
> Did they have "railruts" hand cars? :)
> [www.railroadhandcar.com]

I think I understand. But this still doesn't seem to address the apparent non-horizontal slope of those "benches" with the cross striations, it doesn't address the apparent lack of wider tracks on curves to accommodate the wheel radius, it doesn't address why some tracks on horizontal ground show erosion between them while others do not, and it doesn't address the sidewall grinding that would occur on wheels that supported a heavy load along deep ruts in bedrock.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1842 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 487 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 371 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 446 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 373 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 292 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 273 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 294 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 283 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 258 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 270 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 265 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 224 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 273 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 243 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 247 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 264 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 209 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 196 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 327 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 185 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 233 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 169 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 256 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 275 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 328 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 188 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 284 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 227 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 263 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 259 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 257 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 328 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 281 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 234 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 197 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 161 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 189 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 202 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 190 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 205 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 249 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 218 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 203 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 187 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 286 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 255 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 162 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 359 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 261 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 173 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 221 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 233 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 191 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 274 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 310 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 187 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 185 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 189 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 227 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 176 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 184 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 167 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 195 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 286 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 209 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 143 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 162 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 324 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 176 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 209 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 312 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 171 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 189 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 422 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 417 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 179 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 257 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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