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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do not consider systematically that any spot
> between ruts is a trace of hauling animal track.
> It seems clear that in many cases, there are no
> traces between the ruts pairs. On the other hand,
> in other places in Malta (that I saw only on
> photos)they are clearly visible. So to me, we can
> discuss until end of times, the point remains
> open.
> In Malta, it seems that you can find evidence of
> cart animal hauling as well as evidence of no such
> animal traction. In some places (in book "Cart
> ruts and their impact on Maltese landscape", photo
> pages 34-35) you can see both types in the same
> area, with and without. So what?

I, too, agree that the mystery remains. My only point in rebuttal is that all of the physical evidence must be taken into account, not just the ruts that show a shallower erosion between them. And so while some tracks that include erosion between them might imply power supplieid by beasts of burden, we also must be able to explain why other tracks show no such erosion between them. My suggestion was that the tracks with no erosion between them implies that it wasn't necessary to include beasts of burden as the power supply, and so perhaps the tracks that DO have erosion between them might simply indicate that humans used those tracks as guidelines to delineate human walking paths that were established long after the "cart ruts" were formed, and that those tracks both with and without a central eroded region might not really be any different in character.


> I only said that in the case of Clapham Junction,
> which I consider to be an ancient quarry, it is
> quite inconclusive considering how messy and
> eroded is the whole terrain, including the ruts
> themselves.
> In many cases, you just cannot ask "animal central
> tracks? yes or no". Just random holes, bumps and
> cracks.
>
> This is what you see when starting visiting the
> site from the public parking after entrance, at
> the level of "eastfield farmhouse", no clear
> patterns and conclusive evidences (in addition you
> constantly have to look where you put the feet):
> [www.electricyouniverse.com]

However, other tracks are present in less eroded areas of bedrock and there seems to be no clear erosion between them despite the far smoother surface which would more likely show such erosion if beasts of burden were routinely used to haul such heavy loads.


> But this explanation suits only in a quarry with
> moderate slopes like Clapham Junction. Elsewhere,
> I just can't say. Do you understand my point?
> Did they have "railruts" hand cars? :)
> [www.railroadhandcar.com]

I think I understand. But this still doesn't seem to address the apparent non-horizontal slope of those "benches" with the cross striations, it doesn't address the apparent lack of wider tracks on curves to accommodate the wheel radius, it doesn't address why some tracks on horizontal ground show erosion between them while others do not, and it doesn't address the sidewall grinding that would occur on wheels that supported a heavy load along deep ruts in bedrock.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1683 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 394 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 314 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 374 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 317 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 227 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 222 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 230 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 226 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 218 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 217 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 217 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 182 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 214 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 193 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 201 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 201 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 156 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 150 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 146 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 186 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 124 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 203 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 210 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 267 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 227 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 235 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 192 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 210 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 208 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 270 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 230 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 171 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 116 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 145 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 152 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 147 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 152 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 148 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 154 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 165 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 129 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 188 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 141 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 207 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 119 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 277 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 192 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 144 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 121 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 154 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 188 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 133 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 166 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 138 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 140 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 137 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 147 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 127 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 131 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 116 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 147 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 156 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 89 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 101 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 263 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 145 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 113 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 125 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 132 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 311 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 150 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 136 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 328 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 166 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 154 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 111 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 196 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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