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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1923 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 525 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 397 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 497 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 405 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 337 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 312 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 321 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 321 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 277 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 298 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 297 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 252 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 306 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 287 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 247 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 224 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 347 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 207 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 258 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 304 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 308 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 366 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 210 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 309 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 329 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 249 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 298 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 280 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 357 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 337 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 263 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 245 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 192 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 209 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 243 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 212 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 227 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 243 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 286 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 243 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 232 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 348 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 231 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 312 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 278 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 210 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 394 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 296 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 235 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 196 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 270 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 222 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 344 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 236 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 226 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 205 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 208 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 257 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 220 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 227 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 247 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 224 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 317 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 249 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 164 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 183 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 259 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 358 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 240 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 230 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 203 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 336 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 234 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 237 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 229 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 490 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 226 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 453 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 216 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 276 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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