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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1665 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 381 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 307 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 359 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 303 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 217 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 215 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 224 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 218 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 209 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 209 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 210 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 176 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 204 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 186 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 193 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 192 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 150 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 142 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 274 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 137 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 175 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 117 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 196 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 202 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 256 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 141 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 222 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 228 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 184 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 201 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 201 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 188 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 261 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 223 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 164 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 140 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 109 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 139 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 148 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 145 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 141 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 145 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 141 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 148 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 158 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 150 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 122 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 178 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 133 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 215 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 202 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 110 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 267 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 179 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 135 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 113 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 146 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 177 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 125 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 219 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 130 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 135 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 127 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 138 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 160 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 119 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 114 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 122 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 110 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 142 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 111 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 111 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 125 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 135 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 148 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 81 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 92 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 112 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 252 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 112 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 114 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 131 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 122 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 108 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 108 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 146 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 113 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 109 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 299 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 131 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 311 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 146 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 104 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 185 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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