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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1710 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 411 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 325 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 387 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 329 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 239 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 230 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 239 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 235 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 226 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 225 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 223 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 190 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 222 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 202 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 213 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 210 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 167 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 159 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 293 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 155 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 197 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 131 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 211 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 219 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 276 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 154 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 235 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 244 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 199 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 219 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 215 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 205 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 238 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 181 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 154 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 124 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 152 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 165 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 162 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 157 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 162 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 157 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 164 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 173 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 167 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 138 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 197 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 148 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 237 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 220 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 127 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 295 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 204 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 154 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 132 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 163 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 198 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 138 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 238 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 238 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 150 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 144 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 125 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 129 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 130 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 119 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 145 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 232 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 165 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 99 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 109 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 275 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 131 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 135 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 232 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 156 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 143 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 111 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 130 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 333 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 149 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 143 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 344 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 176 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 167 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 120 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 209 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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