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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1840 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 486 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 371 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 446 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 371 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 292 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 273 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 293 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 282 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 257 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 269 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 265 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 224 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 272 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 242 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 247 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 264 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 208 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 194 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 326 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 185 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 232 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 168 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 256 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 275 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 327 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 188 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 281 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 286 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 262 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 259 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 255 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 326 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 279 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 232 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 197 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 161 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 189 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 190 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 205 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 199 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 247 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 218 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 202 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 185 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 286 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 254 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 160 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 359 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 261 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 217 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 232 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 190 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 274 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 309 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 187 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 185 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 188 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 225 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 184 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 167 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 195 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 286 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 209 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 142 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 162 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 324 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 208 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 176 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 311 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 170 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 189 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 156 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 421 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 215 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 416 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 209 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 175 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 257 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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