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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1873 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 511 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 385 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 464 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 382 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 309 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 284 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 309 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 298 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 269 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 281 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 282 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 238 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 292 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 254 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 258 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 274 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 223 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 336 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 196 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 245 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 185 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 275 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 287 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 341 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 198 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 296 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 302 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 238 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 275 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 274 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 346 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 297 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 249 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 178 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 222 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 215 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 201 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 217 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 259 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 230 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 218 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 184 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 312 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 203 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 301 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 265 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 183 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 374 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 273 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 217 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 186 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 247 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 244 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 203 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 284 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 328 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 226 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 203 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 194 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 199 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 191 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 195 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 230 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 298 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 174 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 343 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 186 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 191 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 220 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 192 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 327 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 183 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 208 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 174 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 227 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 188 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 446 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 215 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 437 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 232 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 196 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 268 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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