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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1792 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 448 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 351 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 427 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 353 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 270 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 253 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 271 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 262 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 242 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 251 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 250 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 210 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 255 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 225 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 232 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 241 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 191 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 180 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 312 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 173 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 217 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 154 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 239 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 252 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 310 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 173 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 255 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 264 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 213 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 245 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 241 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 234 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 303 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 256 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 215 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 183 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 174 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 199 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 185 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 176 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 191 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 182 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 187 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 158 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 240 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 144 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 337 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 246 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 183 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 157 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 193 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 218 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 166 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 260 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 171 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 287 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 170 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 169 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 180 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 149 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 150 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 170 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 174 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 269 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 126 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 149 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 304 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 155 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 272 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 155 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 145 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 138 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 387 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 177 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 392 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 203 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 192 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 152 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 242 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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