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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1684 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 395 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 315 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 374 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 317 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 227 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 223 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 230 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 226 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 218 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 217 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 217 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 182 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 214 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 193 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 202 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 202 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 156 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 150 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 147 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 186 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 125 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 206 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 212 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 268 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 230 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 235 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 192 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 210 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 209 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 196 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 270 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 231 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 171 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 117 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 145 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 152 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 147 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 152 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 150 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 154 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 165 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 130 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 189 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 142 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 208 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 119 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 193 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 145 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 121 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 155 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 189 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 133 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 166 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 140 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 137 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 153 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 147 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 127 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 131 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 116 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 148 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 106 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 157 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 90 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 101 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 264 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 146 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 114 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 125 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 132 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 312 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 329 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 154 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 111 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 196 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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