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Mike D Wrote:
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 2012 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 555 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 420 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 566 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 441 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 368 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 341 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 341 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 343 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 300 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 322 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 324 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 330 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 308 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 306 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 312 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 265 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 253 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 367 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 227 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 276 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 238 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 334 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 335 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 425 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 229 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 329 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 354 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 274 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 319 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 331 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 300 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 376 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 366 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 282 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 275 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 215 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 237 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 262 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 266 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 234 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 244 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 265 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 328 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 269 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 260 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 237 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 398 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 258 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 340 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 301 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 233 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 435 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 324 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 221 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 306 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 277 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 247 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 334 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 392 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 259 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 262 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 234 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 229 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 290 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 268 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 297 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 251 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 246 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 234 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 268 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 247 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 293 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 249 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 237 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 352 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 300 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 232 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 204 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 285 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 409 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 260 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 229 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 297 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 265 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 381 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 233 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 272 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 266 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 241 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 244 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 273 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 557 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 266 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 270 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 254 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 500 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 294 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 258 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 265 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 302 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59

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