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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1842 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 487 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 371 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 446 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 373 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 292 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 273 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 294 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 283 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 258 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 270 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 265 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 224 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 273 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 243 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 247 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 264 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 209 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 196 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 327 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 185 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 233 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 169 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 256 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 275 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 328 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 188 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 284 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 227 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 263 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 260 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 257 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 328 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 281 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 234 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 197 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 161 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 189 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 202 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 190 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 205 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 249 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 218 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 203 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 188 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 286 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 255 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 162 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 359 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 262 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 173 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 221 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 233 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 191 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 274 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 310 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 188 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 185 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 189 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 227 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 176 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 184 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 167 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 195 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 286 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 143 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 162 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 324 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 176 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 209 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 312 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 171 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 195 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 162 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 189 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 422 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 417 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 179 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 257 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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