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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1724 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 420 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 331 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 398 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 333 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 243 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 235 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 244 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 239 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 227 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 229 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 230 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 193 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 230 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 206 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 215 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 215 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 173 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 163 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 295 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 160 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 201 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 136 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 216 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 225 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 284 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 159 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 238 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 249 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 202 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 224 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 218 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 285 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 241 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 186 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 159 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 128 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 158 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 167 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 160 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 167 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 162 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 207 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 178 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 169 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 142 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 206 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 154 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 245 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 224 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 130 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 304 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 215 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 159 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 138 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 169 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 202 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 142 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 244 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 154 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 177 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 154 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 154 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 149 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 162 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 184 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 146 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 130 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 135 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 122 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 149 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 156 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 242 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 171 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 112 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 132 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 162 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 285 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 136 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 237 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 135 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 127 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 173 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 116 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 342 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 154 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 167 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 148 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 354 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 174 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 128 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 214 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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