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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1917 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 523 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 394 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 493 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 404 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 329 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 307 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 319 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 315 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 276 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 298 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 294 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 250 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 306 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 277 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 278 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 284 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 239 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 224 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 344 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 205 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 257 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 207 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 297 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 304 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 359 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 207 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 307 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 325 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 247 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 288 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 293 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 278 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 355 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 333 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 262 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 240 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 190 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 208 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 239 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 233 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 242 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 228 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 204 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 340 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 227 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 276 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 203 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 390 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 234 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 265 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 217 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 303 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 343 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 205 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 207 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 247 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 314 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 355 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 230 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 336 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 228 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 192 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 236 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 215 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 193 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 224 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 482 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 222 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 225 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 450 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 250 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 213 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 274 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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