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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1647 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 370 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 301 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 347 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 297 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 210 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 210 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 214 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 212 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 202 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 204 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 200 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 170 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 199 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 179 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 186 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 186 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 142 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 136 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 269 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 133 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 172 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 108 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 190 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 196 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 248 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 136 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 218 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 222 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 179 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 196 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 181 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 254 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 216 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 160 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 134 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 102 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 134 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 141 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 140 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 136 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 140 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 132 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 141 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 151 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 144 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 117 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 170 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 129 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 206 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 196 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 105 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 258 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 171 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 128 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 108 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 137 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 114 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 214 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 130 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 153 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 126 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 130 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 121 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 116 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 129 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 153 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 111 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 116 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 136 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 106 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 95 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 119 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 198 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 76 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 89 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 104 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 241 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 109 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 123 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 117 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 102 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 115 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 95 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 283 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 123 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 119 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 292 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 154 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 98 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 176 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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