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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before to answer to you on your point, hereunder
> is a post to Harry Wolf to expose the geological
> question raising about Malta ruts: About 90% of
> them run on the most recent limestone layer, the
> Coralline, whereas they are only a few on older
> and softer limestone layer, namely Globigerina.
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,11
> 20291,1124753#msg-1124753]Malta geology and cart
> ruts distribution correspondence[/url]
> And after, please see my answer to Jon to clarify
> my views and state of mind:
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,11
> 20291,1124920#msg-1124920]Answer to Jon
> Ellison[/url]
> To me, even if I am not opposed to the theory of
> very, very old imprints on soft clay that turn out
> solid afterwards, I don't think it can apply to
> the case of Malta, altough they must also be old,
> before catastrophes in the Mediterranean, may be
> contemporary of Atlantis, not impossible to me.
> Considering that more wet paleo climate may have
> helped the wear of tracks, I am thinking here to
> Robert Soch claims about the water erosion of
> Gizah Sphinx.
> Now, to answer your question: [quote="Tsurugi
> question:"]
> That said, your observations of quarry features
> around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question:
> is there anything you noticed that definitely
> makes the quarry features and the ruts
> contemporary?
> [/quote]
> I cannot say definitely, not being a geologist,
> nor a quarry expert. But being an engineer
> familiar with technical and production questions,
> Clapham Junction looked to me a very old (stones
> wear, ground erosion) and well organised quarry.
> In the beginning it seems just to be a mess with
> random "cart ruts". And little by little you begin
> to understand the overall pattern, but it comes
> gradually.
> On the sides of the ruts areas are clear patches
> of rock extraction patterns, but they don't lie
> beside ruts and maybe are younger than ruts. Maybe
> Punic, Greek, Roman.
> But in the end I realized that in ruts areas we
> were walking on man-made artificially levelled
> parallel strips of rocky terrain, all flat (and
> inclined), all of same limited height and width.
> The idea of cutting benches became pregnant. And
> then I realized that they were all crossed by
> parallel cart ruts, and the crossing angle was
> constant. It seem to me that cutting benches were
> following geological sedimentary layers to
> optimize rock quality, whereas ruts direction was
> defined to optimize a constant tracks slope.
> No evidence of course.

Hi Mike..
No Worries..

One of the problems I have with the "Ruts cut by repeated traffic" idea is that where we see genuine cart ruts . Roman etc.. they are usually the result of the vehicles being constricted by a built road, side walls or a natural choke point. Not meandering all over the landscape. It would take the passing of probably hundreds of carts to even begin to define a cart track which could be subsequently followed by more carts. Of course this is entirely understandable in the case of a road or choke point as above.
Question is.. How do the meandering cart tracks on rock get started for others to follow? How did cart number two follow exactly cart number one? and so on until there was something well enough defined to follow.
One of the reasons why I currently think that the ruts are not the result high intensity, repeated traffic on hard stuff.
Rather low frequency traffic on soft stuff that is deliberately trying to avoid previous tracks.. For example driving a 4X4 over a deeply rutted, un-constricted area, you tend to try to stay out of the ruts due to your axle height and ground clearance issues. Resulting in sets of tracks meandering all over the place. The "Ski Resort" effect.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1644 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 370 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 299 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 346 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 297 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 209 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 209 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 214 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 211 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 202 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 204 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 200 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 170 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 198 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 178 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 185 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 185 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 141 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 134 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 269 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 131 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 172 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 107 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 188 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 196 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 245 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 135 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 218 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 220 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 178 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 196 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 181 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 254 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 215 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 158 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 133 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 101 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 133 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 139 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 140 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 135 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 139 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 132 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 140 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 151 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 143 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 117 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 170 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 128 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 204 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 196 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 104 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 257 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 170 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 128 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 108 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 137 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 171 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 114 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 214 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 130 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 150 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 125 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 130 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 121 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 115 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 111 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 106 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 116 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 103 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 135 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 94 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 76 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 88 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 104 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 238 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 105 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 109 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 123 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 117 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 193 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 115 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 93 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 100 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 283 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 121 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 119 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 291 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 98 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 175 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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