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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before to answer to you on your point, hereunder
> is a post to Harry Wolf to expose the geological
> question raising about Malta ruts: About 90% of
> them run on the most recent limestone layer, the
> Coralline, whereas they are only a few on older
> and softer limestone layer, namely Globigerina.
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,11
> 20291,1124753#msg-1124753]Malta geology and cart
> ruts distribution correspondence[/url]
> And after, please see my answer to Jon to clarify
> my views and state of mind:
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,11
> 20291,1124920#msg-1124920]Answer to Jon
> Ellison[/url]
> To me, even if I am not opposed to the theory of
> very, very old imprints on soft clay that turn out
> solid afterwards, I don't think it can apply to
> the case of Malta, altough they must also be old,
> before catastrophes in the Mediterranean, may be
> contemporary of Atlantis, not impossible to me.
> Considering that more wet paleo climate may have
> helped the wear of tracks, I am thinking here to
> Robert Soch claims about the water erosion of
> Gizah Sphinx.
> Now, to answer your question: [quote="Tsurugi
> question:"]
> That said, your observations of quarry features
> around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question:
> is there anything you noticed that definitely
> makes the quarry features and the ruts
> contemporary?
> [/quote]
> I cannot say definitely, not being a geologist,
> nor a quarry expert. But being an engineer
> familiar with technical and production questions,
> Clapham Junction looked to me a very old (stones
> wear, ground erosion) and well organised quarry.
> In the beginning it seems just to be a mess with
> random "cart ruts". And little by little you begin
> to understand the overall pattern, but it comes
> gradually.
> On the sides of the ruts areas are clear patches
> of rock extraction patterns, but they don't lie
> beside ruts and maybe are younger than ruts. Maybe
> Punic, Greek, Roman.
> But in the end I realized that in ruts areas we
> were walking on man-made artificially levelled
> parallel strips of rocky terrain, all flat (and
> inclined), all of same limited height and width.
> The idea of cutting benches became pregnant. And
> then I realized that they were all crossed by
> parallel cart ruts, and the crossing angle was
> constant. It seem to me that cutting benches were
> following geological sedimentary layers to
> optimize rock quality, whereas ruts direction was
> defined to optimize a constant tracks slope.
> No evidence of course.

Hi Mike..
No Worries..

One of the problems I have with the "Ruts cut by repeated traffic" idea is that where we see genuine cart ruts . Roman etc.. they are usually the result of the vehicles being constricted by a built road, side walls or a natural choke point. Not meandering all over the landscape. It would take the passing of probably hundreds of carts to even begin to define a cart track which could be subsequently followed by more carts. Of course this is entirely understandable in the case of a road or choke point as above.
Question is.. How do the meandering cart tracks on rock get started for others to follow? How did cart number two follow exactly cart number one? and so on until there was something well enough defined to follow.
One of the reasons why I currently think that the ruts are not the result high intensity, repeated traffic on hard stuff.
Rather low frequency traffic on soft stuff that is deliberately trying to avoid previous tracks.. For example driving a 4X4 over a deeply rutted, un-constricted area, you tend to try to stay out of the ruts due to your axle height and ground clearance issues. Resulting in sets of tracks meandering all over the place. The "Ski Resort" effect.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1686 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 396 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 316 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 374 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 317 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 227 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 223 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 230 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 227 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 218 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 217 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 217 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 182 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 214 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 193 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 204 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 203 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 156 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 150 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 147 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 186 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 125 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 206 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 212 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 268 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 230 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 236 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 192 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 210 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 209 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 197 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 270 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 231 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 171 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 117 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 145 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 152 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 147 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 152 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 150 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 155 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 165 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 130 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 189 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 142 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 209 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 119 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 193 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 145 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 121 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 189 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 133 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 166 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 141 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 137 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 153 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 147 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 132 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 117 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 149 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 106 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 157 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 90 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 101 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 264 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 121 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 124 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 146 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 115 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 125 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 132 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 119 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 314 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 331 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 156 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 112 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 196 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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