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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answers:
> In their document "The cart ruts of Malta: an
> applied geomorphology approach",Derek Mottershead,
> Alastair Pearson & Martin Schaefer exposed
> scientific measurements that show how wood can
> wear out limestone. Think also how wood can be
> hardened with fire, and that cart wooden wheels
> can be replaced in a good maintenance process.

Thanks for the link. It was interesting how they "reverse-engineered" the carts from their determinations, but the whole paper is an example of reverse engineering of a kind seen all too often in archaeology(and seen plenty in "fringe" archaeology as well): working backwards from a conclusion toward observed data. In this case the conclusion is the ruts were made in stone by repeated passages of primitive wooden carts. All of the calculations and data gathering outlined in the paper were made with this conclusion in mind.

This doesn't mean the conclusion is incorrect. It just means that there could be data that falsifies the conclusion that the authors did not see, because they weren't looking for it. Confirmation bias, in other words.

For example, I was hoping there would be a geomorphological examination of the matrix of rock immediately below and to the sides of the ruts, and comparison to the matrix of a control(similar rock, sans ruts), like what is done with fossilized footprints. The matrix around and under a genuine print displays heightened density and lateral displacement, showing that the rock in which the print is found was in a semi-liquid state at the time the print was made. To my disappointment, such a test did not even seem to occur to the authors of the paper.
But why should it? The possibility the ruts were made before the rock hardened was the farthest thing from their minds because they already had their conclusions. Confirmation bias.

It's unfortunate, because such a test would definitively answer the question of whether the ruts were made before or after the rock hardened. If no compression and lateral displacement is evident in the rock material around the ruts, they were not made when the rock was soft, it's as simple as that. Yet such a study continues to not be made. Why?


As to the calculations made by the authors of the paper in support of their conclusion, I am suspicious of the "stress concentration factor" by which they magnified the erosive effects of cart wheels by a factor of ten. That seems ridiculous imho?? When removed from the calculation, carts carrying loads of a minimum of 6 tons or twelve thousand pounds is required before any "erosion by wheel" would take place, if their other assertions and methods are assumed to be correct...

....which brings me to my final point re: the paper. They concluded that on the stone of Clapham Junction, the passage of a single unladen cart was sufficient to "erode" the rock and begin to produce ruts. Why didn't they demonstrate this?? One run of a single unladen cart would take a few minutes at most. Yet they did not do it, nor has it been done by anyone else. Why?




> Then, we may infer that quarries remained in usage
> during bronze age, punic, greek and roman eras,
> allowing usage of metal rimmed wheels which
> deepened the tracks to a limit.
> The presence of punic tombs cut right across in
> the way of cart ruts, so interrupting them, shows
> that ruts existed before maybe Phoenicians.
> The fact that they run underwater and off cliffs
> shows that they preceeded the catastrophes in the
> Mediterranean, maybe the same which damaged the
> temples, or even before. We are now dealing with
> several thousand of years.


Even with metal-rimmed wheels, there is still the problem of ox-drawn carts following the same path so precisely, and repeating it enough times as to make deep ruts which their wheels could not escape. This is the process which I feel needs to be demonstrated. IMO, it won't be, because it is ludicrous. This is ignored only because alternatives are altogether unpalatable to mainstream thinking.


That said, your observations of quarry features around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question: is there anything you noticed that definitely makes the quarry features and the ruts contemporary?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1923 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 524 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 396 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 497 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 405 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 337 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 312 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 320 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 320 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 276 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 298 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 295 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 251 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 306 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 286 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 245 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 224 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 346 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 206 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 257 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 212 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 304 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 308 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 365 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 208 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 308 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 329 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 249 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 297 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 280 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 357 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 337 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 263 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 245 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 192 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 209 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 243 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 212 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 227 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 243 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 286 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 243 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 230 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 210 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 347 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 230 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 277 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 209 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 392 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 295 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 235 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 195 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 270 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 222 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 344 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 226 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 205 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 208 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 257 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 227 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 247 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 224 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 317 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 248 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 259 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 356 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 209 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 240 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 230 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 336 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 233 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 236 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 215 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 196 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 229 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 488 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 222 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 226 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 452 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 216 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 275 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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