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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answers:
> In their document "The cart ruts of Malta: an
> applied geomorphology approach",Derek Mottershead,
> Alastair Pearson & Martin Schaefer exposed
> scientific measurements that show how wood can
> wear out limestone. Think also how wood can be
> hardened with fire, and that cart wooden wheels
> can be replaced in a good maintenance process.

Thanks for the link. It was interesting how they "reverse-engineered" the carts from their determinations, but the whole paper is an example of reverse engineering of a kind seen all too often in archaeology(and seen plenty in "fringe" archaeology as well): working backwards from a conclusion toward observed data. In this case the conclusion is the ruts were made in stone by repeated passages of primitive wooden carts. All of the calculations and data gathering outlined in the paper were made with this conclusion in mind.

This doesn't mean the conclusion is incorrect. It just means that there could be data that falsifies the conclusion that the authors did not see, because they weren't looking for it. Confirmation bias, in other words.

For example, I was hoping there would be a geomorphological examination of the matrix of rock immediately below and to the sides of the ruts, and comparison to the matrix of a control(similar rock, sans ruts), like what is done with fossilized footprints. The matrix around and under a genuine print displays heightened density and lateral displacement, showing that the rock in which the print is found was in a semi-liquid state at the time the print was made. To my disappointment, such a test did not even seem to occur to the authors of the paper.
But why should it? The possibility the ruts were made before the rock hardened was the farthest thing from their minds because they already had their conclusions. Confirmation bias.

It's unfortunate, because such a test would definitively answer the question of whether the ruts were made before or after the rock hardened. If no compression and lateral displacement is evident in the rock material around the ruts, they were not made when the rock was soft, it's as simple as that. Yet such a study continues to not be made. Why?


As to the calculations made by the authors of the paper in support of their conclusion, I am suspicious of the "stress concentration factor" by which they magnified the erosive effects of cart wheels by a factor of ten. That seems ridiculous imho?? When removed from the calculation, carts carrying loads of a minimum of 6 tons or twelve thousand pounds is required before any "erosion by wheel" would take place, if their other assertions and methods are assumed to be correct...

....which brings me to my final point re: the paper. They concluded that on the stone of Clapham Junction, the passage of a single unladen cart was sufficient to "erode" the rock and begin to produce ruts. Why didn't they demonstrate this?? One run of a single unladen cart would take a few minutes at most. Yet they did not do it, nor has it been done by anyone else. Why?




> Then, we may infer that quarries remained in usage
> during bronze age, punic, greek and roman eras,
> allowing usage of metal rimmed wheels which
> deepened the tracks to a limit.
> The presence of punic tombs cut right across in
> the way of cart ruts, so interrupting them, shows
> that ruts existed before maybe Phoenicians.
> The fact that they run underwater and off cliffs
> shows that they preceeded the catastrophes in the
> Mediterranean, maybe the same which damaged the
> temples, or even before. We are now dealing with
> several thousand of years.


Even with metal-rimmed wheels, there is still the problem of ox-drawn carts following the same path so precisely, and repeating it enough times as to make deep ruts which their wheels could not escape. This is the process which I feel needs to be demonstrated. IMO, it won't be, because it is ludicrous. This is ignored only because alternatives are altogether unpalatable to mainstream thinking.


That said, your observations of quarry features around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question: is there anything you noticed that definitely makes the quarry features and the ruts contemporary?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1689 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 398 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 316 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 375 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 318 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 230 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 223 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 231 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 229 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 218 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 217 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 218 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 183 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 215 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 193 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 205 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 204 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 158 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 152 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 285 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 147 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 187 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 125 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 207 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 213 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 268 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 146 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 231 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 237 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 193 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 212 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 209 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 197 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 272 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 233 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 172 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 147 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 117 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 145 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 154 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 149 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 154 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 151 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 165 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 159 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 131 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 190 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 142 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 210 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 121 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 195 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 146 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 122 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 157 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 189 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 133 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 227 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 145 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 224 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 167 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 142 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 138 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 154 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 135 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 148 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 170 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 129 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 133 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 150 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 121 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 120 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 136 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 142 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 157 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 90 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 102 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 122 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 264 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 122 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 125 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 142 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 129 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 218 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 121 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 148 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 118 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 107 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 121 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 316 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 137 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 331 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 157 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 112 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 200 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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