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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answers:
> In their document "The cart ruts of Malta: an
> applied geomorphology approach",Derek Mottershead,
> Alastair Pearson & Martin Schaefer exposed
> scientific measurements that show how wood can
> wear out limestone. Think also how wood can be
> hardened with fire, and that cart wooden wheels
> can be replaced in a good maintenance process.

Thanks for the link. It was interesting how they "reverse-engineered" the carts from their determinations, but the whole paper is an example of reverse engineering of a kind seen all too often in archaeology(and seen plenty in "fringe" archaeology as well): working backwards from a conclusion toward observed data. In this case the conclusion is the ruts were made in stone by repeated passages of primitive wooden carts. All of the calculations and data gathering outlined in the paper were made with this conclusion in mind.

This doesn't mean the conclusion is incorrect. It just means that there could be data that falsifies the conclusion that the authors did not see, because they weren't looking for it. Confirmation bias, in other words.

For example, I was hoping there would be a geomorphological examination of the matrix of rock immediately below and to the sides of the ruts, and comparison to the matrix of a control(similar rock, sans ruts), like what is done with fossilized footprints. The matrix around and under a genuine print displays heightened density and lateral displacement, showing that the rock in which the print is found was in a semi-liquid state at the time the print was made. To my disappointment, such a test did not even seem to occur to the authors of the paper.
But why should it? The possibility the ruts were made before the rock hardened was the farthest thing from their minds because they already had their conclusions. Confirmation bias.

It's unfortunate, because such a test would definitively answer the question of whether the ruts were made before or after the rock hardened. If no compression and lateral displacement is evident in the rock material around the ruts, they were not made when the rock was soft, it's as simple as that. Yet such a study continues to not be made. Why?


As to the calculations made by the authors of the paper in support of their conclusion, I am suspicious of the "stress concentration factor" by which they magnified the erosive effects of cart wheels by a factor of ten. That seems ridiculous imho?? When removed from the calculation, carts carrying loads of a minimum of 6 tons or twelve thousand pounds is required before any "erosion by wheel" would take place, if their other assertions and methods are assumed to be correct...

....which brings me to my final point re: the paper. They concluded that on the stone of Clapham Junction, the passage of a single unladen cart was sufficient to "erode" the rock and begin to produce ruts. Why didn't they demonstrate this?? One run of a single unladen cart would take a few minutes at most. Yet they did not do it, nor has it been done by anyone else. Why?




> Then, we may infer that quarries remained in usage
> during bronze age, punic, greek and roman eras,
> allowing usage of metal rimmed wheels which
> deepened the tracks to a limit.
> The presence of punic tombs cut right across in
> the way of cart ruts, so interrupting them, shows
> that ruts existed before maybe Phoenicians.
> The fact that they run underwater and off cliffs
> shows that they preceeded the catastrophes in the
> Mediterranean, maybe the same which damaged the
> temples, or even before. We are now dealing with
> several thousand of years.


Even with metal-rimmed wheels, there is still the problem of ox-drawn carts following the same path so precisely, and repeating it enough times as to make deep ruts which their wheels could not escape. This is the process which I feel needs to be demonstrated. IMO, it won't be, because it is ludicrous. This is ignored only because alternatives are altogether unpalatable to mainstream thinking.


That said, your observations of quarry features around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question: is there anything you noticed that definitely makes the quarry features and the ruts contemporary?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1825 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 467 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 360 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 439 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 364 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 286 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 265 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 284 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 275 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 253 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 264 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 259 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 219 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 267 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 237 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 243 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 257 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 202 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 191 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 322 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 181 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 226 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 165 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 250 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 270 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 322 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 184 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 268 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 280 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 222 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 257 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 252 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 250 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 312 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 272 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 229 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 192 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 156 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 184 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 210 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 195 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 186 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 238 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 197 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 168 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 274 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 180 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 280 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 250 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 152 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 354 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 254 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 164 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 207 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 228 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 185 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 269 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 187 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 302 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 183 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 178 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 183 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 216 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 186 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 189 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 164 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 177 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 213 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 147 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 191 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 281 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 203 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 135 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 157 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 320 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 171 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 195 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 203 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 172 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 296 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 164 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 189 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 156 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 171 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 149 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 184 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 404 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 190 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 189 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 406 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 211 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 203 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 164 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 250 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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