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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answers:
> In their document "The cart ruts of Malta: an
> applied geomorphology approach",Derek Mottershead,
> Alastair Pearson & Martin Schaefer exposed
> scientific measurements that show how wood can
> wear out limestone. Think also how wood can be
> hardened with fire, and that cart wooden wheels
> can be replaced in a good maintenance process.

Thanks for the link. It was interesting how they "reverse-engineered" the carts from their determinations, but the whole paper is an example of reverse engineering of a kind seen all too often in archaeology(and seen plenty in "fringe" archaeology as well): working backwards from a conclusion toward observed data. In this case the conclusion is the ruts were made in stone by repeated passages of primitive wooden carts. All of the calculations and data gathering outlined in the paper were made with this conclusion in mind.

This doesn't mean the conclusion is incorrect. It just means that there could be data that falsifies the conclusion that the authors did not see, because they weren't looking for it. Confirmation bias, in other words.

For example, I was hoping there would be a geomorphological examination of the matrix of rock immediately below and to the sides of the ruts, and comparison to the matrix of a control(similar rock, sans ruts), like what is done with fossilized footprints. The matrix around and under a genuine print displays heightened density and lateral displacement, showing that the rock in which the print is found was in a semi-liquid state at the time the print was made. To my disappointment, such a test did not even seem to occur to the authors of the paper.
But why should it? The possibility the ruts were made before the rock hardened was the farthest thing from their minds because they already had their conclusions. Confirmation bias.

It's unfortunate, because such a test would definitively answer the question of whether the ruts were made before or after the rock hardened. If no compression and lateral displacement is evident in the rock material around the ruts, they were not made when the rock was soft, it's as simple as that. Yet such a study continues to not be made. Why?


As to the calculations made by the authors of the paper in support of their conclusion, I am suspicious of the "stress concentration factor" by which they magnified the erosive effects of cart wheels by a factor of ten. That seems ridiculous imho?? When removed from the calculation, carts carrying loads of a minimum of 6 tons or twelve thousand pounds is required before any "erosion by wheel" would take place, if their other assertions and methods are assumed to be correct...

....which brings me to my final point re: the paper. They concluded that on the stone of Clapham Junction, the passage of a single unladen cart was sufficient to "erode" the rock and begin to produce ruts. Why didn't they demonstrate this?? One run of a single unladen cart would take a few minutes at most. Yet they did not do it, nor has it been done by anyone else. Why?




> Then, we may infer that quarries remained in usage
> during bronze age, punic, greek and roman eras,
> allowing usage of metal rimmed wheels which
> deepened the tracks to a limit.
> The presence of punic tombs cut right across in
> the way of cart ruts, so interrupting them, shows
> that ruts existed before maybe Phoenicians.
> The fact that they run underwater and off cliffs
> shows that they preceeded the catastrophes in the
> Mediterranean, maybe the same which damaged the
> temples, or even before. We are now dealing with
> several thousand of years.


Even with metal-rimmed wheels, there is still the problem of ox-drawn carts following the same path so precisely, and repeating it enough times as to make deep ruts which their wheels could not escape. This is the process which I feel needs to be demonstrated. IMO, it won't be, because it is ludicrous. This is ignored only because alternatives are altogether unpalatable to mainstream thinking.


That said, your observations of quarry features around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question: is there anything you noticed that definitely makes the quarry features and the ruts contemporary?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1744 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 429 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 338 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 412 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 341 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 252 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 241 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 251 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 248 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 233 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 236 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 237 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 200 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 239 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 211 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 222 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 223 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 179 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 169 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 302 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 164 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 208 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 141 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 223 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 234 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 292 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 164 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 245 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 254 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 207 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 232 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 225 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 216 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 293 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 245 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 193 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 168 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 135 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 161 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 175 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 175 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 166 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 172 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 168 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 183 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 173 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 148 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 221 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 160 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 229 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 134 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 315 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 226 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 164 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 147 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 176 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 209 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 147 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 251 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 160 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 259 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 182 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 159 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 154 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 177 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 167 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 188 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 151 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 150 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 135 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 169 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 139 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 140 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 128 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 153 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 161 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 253 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 111 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 121 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 138 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 167 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 291 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 144 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 148 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 148 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 248 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 141 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 166 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 134 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 179 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 150 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 123 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 145 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 364 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 159 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 155 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 372 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 136 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 223 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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