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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answers:
> In their document "The cart ruts of Malta: an
> applied geomorphology approach",Derek Mottershead,
> Alastair Pearson & Martin Schaefer exposed
> scientific measurements that show how wood can
> wear out limestone. Think also how wood can be
> hardened with fire, and that cart wooden wheels
> can be replaced in a good maintenance process.

Thanks for the link. It was interesting how they "reverse-engineered" the carts from their determinations, but the whole paper is an example of reverse engineering of a kind seen all too often in archaeology(and seen plenty in "fringe" archaeology as well): working backwards from a conclusion toward observed data. In this case the conclusion is the ruts were made in stone by repeated passages of primitive wooden carts. All of the calculations and data gathering outlined in the paper were made with this conclusion in mind.

This doesn't mean the conclusion is incorrect. It just means that there could be data that falsifies the conclusion that the authors did not see, because they weren't looking for it. Confirmation bias, in other words.

For example, I was hoping there would be a geomorphological examination of the matrix of rock immediately below and to the sides of the ruts, and comparison to the matrix of a control(similar rock, sans ruts), like what is done with fossilized footprints. The matrix around and under a genuine print displays heightened density and lateral displacement, showing that the rock in which the print is found was in a semi-liquid state at the time the print was made. To my disappointment, such a test did not even seem to occur to the authors of the paper.
But why should it? The possibility the ruts were made before the rock hardened was the farthest thing from their minds because they already had their conclusions. Confirmation bias.

It's unfortunate, because such a test would definitively answer the question of whether the ruts were made before or after the rock hardened. If no compression and lateral displacement is evident in the rock material around the ruts, they were not made when the rock was soft, it's as simple as that. Yet such a study continues to not be made. Why?


As to the calculations made by the authors of the paper in support of their conclusion, I am suspicious of the "stress concentration factor" by which they magnified the erosive effects of cart wheels by a factor of ten. That seems ridiculous imho?? When removed from the calculation, carts carrying loads of a minimum of 6 tons or twelve thousand pounds is required before any "erosion by wheel" would take place, if their other assertions and methods are assumed to be correct...

....which brings me to my final point re: the paper. They concluded that on the stone of Clapham Junction, the passage of a single unladen cart was sufficient to "erode" the rock and begin to produce ruts. Why didn't they demonstrate this?? One run of a single unladen cart would take a few minutes at most. Yet they did not do it, nor has it been done by anyone else. Why?




> Then, we may infer that quarries remained in usage
> during bronze age, punic, greek and roman eras,
> allowing usage of metal rimmed wheels which
> deepened the tracks to a limit.
> The presence of punic tombs cut right across in
> the way of cart ruts, so interrupting them, shows
> that ruts existed before maybe Phoenicians.
> The fact that they run underwater and off cliffs
> shows that they preceeded the catastrophes in the
> Mediterranean, maybe the same which damaged the
> temples, or even before. We are now dealing with
> several thousand of years.


Even with metal-rimmed wheels, there is still the problem of ox-drawn carts following the same path so precisely, and repeating it enough times as to make deep ruts which their wheels could not escape. This is the process which I feel needs to be demonstrated. IMO, it won't be, because it is ludicrous. This is ignored only because alternatives are altogether unpalatable to mainstream thinking.


That said, your observations of quarry features around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question: is there anything you noticed that definitely makes the quarry features and the ruts contemporary?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1860 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 498 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 377 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 451 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 376 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 298 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 278 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 302 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 290 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 262 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 274 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 270 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 230 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 277 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 246 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 252 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 268 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 204 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 330 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 190 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 237 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 179 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 262 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 280 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 333 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 192 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 289 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 293 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 231 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 265 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 263 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 340 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 288 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 242 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 202 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 170 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 193 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 218 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 208 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 197 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 204 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 222 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 210 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 175 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 301 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 259 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 169 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 368 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 264 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 205 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 179 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 233 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 239 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 194 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 278 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 204 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 319 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 189 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 193 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 234 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 183 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 188 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 176 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 170 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 184 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 158 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 188 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 199 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 291 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 213 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 146 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 166 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 225 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 332 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 181 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 186 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 214 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 185 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 321 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 175 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 168 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 220 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 180 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 195 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 164 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 436 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 203 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 207 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 428 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 226 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 214 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 186 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 259 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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