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Origyptian Wrote:
---
> Their hypothesis is that the limestone softens
> when it gets wet so that carts using the exact
> same path will eventually cut into the bedrock
> leaving those tracks. And when the track gets too
> deep to continue using, another path is chosen,
> which itself eventually gets worn into a track,
> etc.

Yes that is a popular hypothesis, but it only works if you sort of squint at it while it's at the edge of your peripheral vision and you don't look too long (imo).

As soon as I start thinking about that hypothesis, the first question I have is, if the passage of the carts can dig ruts in limestone up to three feet deep, where are the tracks of the beasts of burden being used to pull the carts? I mentioned this in my initial post, and Jon asked it a few replies back. It is a good question; the answer is that there are no corresponding animal tracks between the ruts. Sometimes there are irregularities between a given set of ruts that might be tracks of some kind, however, these tracks(if that is what these irregularities are) are so heavily degraded that it is impossible to tell what they are. And they only appear in short stretches between a given set of ruts.

Next question, how did large-wheeled fixed-axle carts actually move along these ruts? They are too deep, too narrow. Going into a turn would break the wheels and probably snap the axle. At the very least, the cart would get jammed and be unable to move

Next question, what about the ruts that are 10-12 inches across each rut? They are too uniform to be anything but ruts made by wheels that are in fact close to the width indicated by the ruts. AFAIK wheels stayed rail-thin until the advent of inflated tires. The "limestone softened by rain" hypothesis doesn't really work if wheels have to somehow cut channels much wider than they are, with a relatively stable and uniform cross-section.

Next question, what about the ruts in rock other than limestone?

Next question, what about ruts that go right over cliff edges, or down beneath sea level? Remember that on Malta at least, human occupation is not supposed to begin until the Neolithic period, long after any major sea level rises have taken place. And how long exactly does it take, how many passes would it require, for the wooden wheels of a cart to cut deeply into stone? A hundred thousand passes? A million? It makes me suspicious that this idea is tossed out there as a tentative hypothesis, but no one seems keen to actually test it, you know, by setting up something fairly simple so that wooden cart wheels with heavy loads on them roll back and forth across limestone kept wet with a sprinkler or something to see if we can actually produce a rut this way. Instead, what we see is that the tentative hypothesis, after being unchallenged for a certain amount of time, begins to be referred to as fact.

I live on a limestone plateau. No wooden wheel ever cut into any limestone, if you ask me :)


P. S. I am arguing against the hypothesis, not Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 1871 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 510 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 384 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 463 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 381 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 308 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 283 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 308 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 296 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 267 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 280 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 281 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 237 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 291 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 253 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 257 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 273 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 222 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 336 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 196 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 244 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 185 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 272 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 284 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 339 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 197 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 295 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 301 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 237 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 274 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 272 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 346 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 295 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 248 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 213 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 178 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 200 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 222 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 214 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 201 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 217 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 211 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 259 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 230 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 217 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 183 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 202 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 300 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 265 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 183 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 374 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 272 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 215 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 186 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 247 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 243 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 202 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 284 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 209 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 328 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 226 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 201 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 194 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 199 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 209 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 191 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 194 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 184 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 230 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 195 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 163 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 197 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 205 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 298 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 222 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 152 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 172 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 174 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 230 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 342 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 186 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 191 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 192 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 327 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 183 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 207 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 172 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 226 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 188 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 178 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 206 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 446 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 210 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 215 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 437 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 231 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 195 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 268 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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