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Origyptian Wrote:
---
> Their hypothesis is that the limestone softens
> when it gets wet so that carts using the exact
> same path will eventually cut into the bedrock
> leaving those tracks. And when the track gets too
> deep to continue using, another path is chosen,
> which itself eventually gets worn into a track,
> etc.

Yes that is a popular hypothesis, but it only works if you sort of squint at it while it's at the edge of your peripheral vision and you don't look too long (imo).

As soon as I start thinking about that hypothesis, the first question I have is, if the passage of the carts can dig ruts in limestone up to three feet deep, where are the tracks of the beasts of burden being used to pull the carts? I mentioned this in my initial post, and Jon asked it a few replies back. It is a good question; the answer is that there are no corresponding animal tracks between the ruts. Sometimes there are irregularities between a given set of ruts that might be tracks of some kind, however, these tracks(if that is what these irregularities are) are so heavily degraded that it is impossible to tell what they are. And they only appear in short stretches between a given set of ruts.

Next question, how did large-wheeled fixed-axle carts actually move along these ruts? They are too deep, too narrow. Going into a turn would break the wheels and probably snap the axle. At the very least, the cart would get jammed and be unable to move

Next question, what about the ruts that are 10-12 inches across each rut? They are too uniform to be anything but ruts made by wheels that are in fact close to the width indicated by the ruts. AFAIK wheels stayed rail-thin until the advent of inflated tires. The "limestone softened by rain" hypothesis doesn't really work if wheels have to somehow cut channels much wider than they are, with a relatively stable and uniform cross-section.

Next question, what about the ruts in rock other than limestone?

Next question, what about ruts that go right over cliff edges, or down beneath sea level? Remember that on Malta at least, human occupation is not supposed to begin until the Neolithic period, long after any major sea level rises have taken place. And how long exactly does it take, how many passes would it require, for the wooden wheels of a cart to cut deeply into stone? A hundred thousand passes? A million? It makes me suspicious that this idea is tossed out there as a tentative hypothesis, but no one seems keen to actually test it, you know, by setting up something fairly simple so that wooden cart wheels with heavy loads on them roll back and forth across limestone kept wet with a sprinkler or something to see if we can actually produce a rut this way. Instead, what we see is that the tentative hypothesis, after being unchallenged for a certain amount of time, begins to be referred to as fact.

I live on a limestone plateau. No wooden wheel ever cut into any limestone, if you ask me :)


P. S. I am arguing against the hypothesis, not Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 2013 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 558 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 420 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 568 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 442 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 369 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 342 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 341 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 343 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 300 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 322 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 324 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 330 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 308 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 308 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 312 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 265 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 254 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 367 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 227 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 276 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 239 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 335 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 336 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 426 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 229 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 330 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 356 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 275 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 320 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 331 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 300 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 376 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 367 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 283 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 276 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 216 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 237 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 262 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 267 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 234 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 244 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 266 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 329 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 270 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 260 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 237 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 399 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 258 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 340 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 301 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 233 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 435 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 324 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 221 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 307 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 278 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 247 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 335 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 246 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 392 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 259 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 262 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 237 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 229 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 292 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 239 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 269 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 297 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 251 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 247 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 234 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 269 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 248 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 293 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 202 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 249 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 237 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 353 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 300 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 200 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 232 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 204 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 286 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 409 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 261 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 229 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 297 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 265 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 223 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 382 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 233 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 272 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 267 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 217 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 241 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 244 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 273 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 558 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 266 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 271 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 501 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 294 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 259 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 266 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 302 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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