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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They don't know what's under the alluvium in
> Iraq.
> > There could be older strata underneath it that
> > would indicate an earlier date for the Samarra
> > and/or Hassuna moving into the area who merged
> > with (or became) the Ubaid. They were further
> > north, while the Ubaid appear to have settled
> in
> > the south, then kept moving even further south.
> > Which brings us right back to Halaf.
>
> Supposedly the Halaf date to c. 6100-5100BC, the
> Ubaid 6500/6200 (north/south)-3800BC. Around
> 5500-5000BC the Halaf disappear being replaced a
> by the Ubaid. The more I research it the more of a
> mess it is. Many conflicting dates.

They need more finds, simple as that. It IS a huge mess. I give anyone trying to sort it out all the credit in the world. You have the patience of saints.

> > The DNA evidence on this one is tough and
> > convoluted. People were moving, no doubt about
> it.
>
> Oyyy. I want to avoid this as much as I can and
> stick to the archeology, but if the information is
> available this might help to tip the scales to
> either north or south. I only have so many brain
> cells to rub together, so diggin through that
> rat's nest is not something I look forward to.

LOL I know. But I do believe that genetics, linguistics archaeology together can untangle this mess eventually. Even if my brain explodes at trying to comprehend sub sub sub subclades. Sometimes I think less precision would be more helpful.


>
> > There is no one single thing that says the
> Ubaid
> > came from somewhere else or where that
> somewhere
> > was. All that can really be said is that they
> were
> > a non-Semitic people.
>
> This certainly seems to be the state of the
> matter. It seems the case could be made for a
> northern or southern origin on equal merits.
>
> > I think so, too. I'd bet that the Epic of
> > Gilgamesh is not the oldest source for the Epic
> of
> > Gilgamesh or the flood or creation stories in
> > Genesis.
>
> Thorkild Jacobsen dates the Eridu Genesis to
> 1600BC, some say 1800BC, but I have read
> commentary that it comes from an earlier original
> c. 2300BC. Killin me I can't find the original
> source though it is blindly repeated on the net.
> This makes sense though as it supposedly the only
> one found written in Sumerian. Likely it was
> copied and recopied by the Akkadians sometime
> after Sargon took over.

That explains why I could never find it, and believe me I've tried.

> Speaking of blindly repeating things, an unrelated
> rant, but it is stunning to me how many sources
> just copy and paste Wikipedia. Not just internet
> "articles" and the like, but printed books. More
> often than not they don't even source it, it's
> just flat out plagiarism. I have seen several
> things I have written on Wikipedia copy and pasted
> to varying degrees, but a few things I have
> researched lately are just whole pages. Crazy. A
> word to anyone-Wikipedia is not a source.
> It is a source for sources which does not mean
> they do not get the information right and could
> not be quoted, but you better research the sources
> they cite first as it is quite common they do not
> say what Wikipedia says it does and who ever wrote
> it basically just made it up and cited something
> related. Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, a
> phenomenon unto itself, but there is a lotttt of
> BS in there.
>
> I digress....

No, you're right on point. It's a great reference for preliminary stuff, but take it with a grain of salt when possible.

> > Now this is interesting. I always thought that
> was
> > the Black Sea. (Ditto Jason and the Argonauts,
> but
> > that's another story.) However, the Persian
> Gulf
> > makes a lot more sense geographically. It's
> > closer, and if they retained a memory of when
> it
> > was dry land, it would be revered. Kind of like
> > Ireland's Land Beneath the Wave (Tir Fa Tonn,
> Mag
> > Mell, etc.). No one grew old and died there.

> This was my thinking too, but the Persian Gulf
> makes a lot of sense as well. I think it is also
> possible this "homeland" may have been farther
> out, somewhere in the Arabian Sea, perhaps off the
> coast of India. Just a thought.

Aha, I knew we'd get to India eventually. Is there any evidence tying the Ubaids and other tribes of Mesopotamia to the proto Indians?

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like earth. ~ Margaret Atwood

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 3008 Thanos5150 10-Sep-17 16:31
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 515 Reagent 11-Sep-17 01:45
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 478 Thanos5150 11-Sep-17 16:23
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 523 Reagent 11-Sep-17 22:58
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 396 dong 11-Sep-17 19:00
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 475 Vanya 12-Sep-17 08:42
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 526 Thanos5150 13-Sep-17 15:55
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 511 Vanya 15-Sep-17 19:07
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 579 Thanos5150 16-Sep-17 00:48
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 318 Aine 25-Sep-17 17:36
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 336 Thanos5150 25-Sep-17 21:03
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 276 Aine 26-Sep-17 17:19
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 330 Aine 26-Sep-17 17:30
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 364 Vanya 27-Sep-17 10:32
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 302 Thanos5150 27-Sep-17 17:54
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 325 Vanya 03-Oct-17 12:42
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 446 Thanos5150 03-Oct-17 23:16
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 397 Vanya 04-Oct-17 06:37
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 336 Origyptian 04-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 386 Vanya 04-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 314 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 03:50
Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 369 Vanya 07-Oct-17 09:14
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 310 Origyptian 07-Oct-17 14:07
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 348 Vanya 07-Oct-17 15:57
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 323 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 17:05
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 330 Vanya 08-Oct-17 08:06
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 279 Aine 09-Oct-17 00:55
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 312 Vanya 09-Oct-17 06:08
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 229 Aine 11-Oct-17 12:57
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 286 Vanya 11-Oct-17 14:17
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 197 Aine 11-Oct-17 15:03
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 234 Thanos5150 11-Oct-17 15:20
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 262 Thanos5150 11-Oct-17 15:40
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 462 Vanya 11-Oct-17 15:49
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 267 Eddie Larry 07-Oct-17 14:06
Re: Question about UBAID - from where they come from ? 335 Vanya 11-Oct-17 08:41
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 266 Aine 05-Oct-17 12:29
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 271 Aine 04-Oct-17 19:12
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 328 Thanos5150 05-Oct-17 02:57
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 282 Aine 05-Oct-17 12:58
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 345 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 00:12
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 343 MDaines 06-Oct-17 11:29
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 324 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 239 MDaines 06-Oct-17 16:28
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 279 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 22:50
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 298 Origyptian 06-Oct-17 17:14
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 324 MDaines 06-Oct-17 18:01
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 265 Origyptian 06-Oct-17 21:06
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 336 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 00:38
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 298 MDaines 07-Oct-17 08:48
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 318 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 17:07
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 345 Aine 09-Oct-17 01:08
Re: About Wikipedia 527 Vanya 09-Oct-17 06:45
Re: About Wikipedia 223 Aine 11-Oct-17 12:58
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 267 Thanos5150 10-Oct-17 01:26
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 287 Eddie Larry 10-Oct-17 01:47
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 215 Aine 11-Oct-17 13:00
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 214 Eddie Larry 11-Oct-17 15:27
Re: Black Sea - Floods - waters mixing and sea levels during millennia 375 Vanya 26-Sep-17 08:17


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