> Aine Wrote:
> > They don't know what's under the alluvium in
> > There could be older strata underneath it that
> > would indicate an earlier date for the Samarra
> > and/or Hassuna moving into the area who merged
> > with (or became) the Ubaid. They were further
> > north, while the Ubaid appear to have settled
> > the south, then kept moving even further south.
> > Which brings us right back to Halaf.
> Supposedly the Halaf date to c. 6100-5100BC, the
> Ubaid 6500/6200 (north/south)-3800BC. Around
> 5500-5000BC the Halaf disappear being replaced a
> by the Ubaid. The more I research it the more of a
> mess it is. Many conflicting dates.
They need more finds, simple as that. It IS a huge mess. I give anyone trying to sort it out all the credit in the world. You have the patience of saints.
> > The DNA evidence on this one is tough and
> > convoluted. People were moving, no doubt about
> Oyyy. I want to avoid this as much as I can and
> stick to the archeology, but if the information is
> available this might help to tip the scales to
> either north or south. I only have so many brain
> cells to rub together, so diggin through that
> rat's nest is not something I look forward to.
LOL I know. But I do believe that genetics, linguistics archaeology together can untangle this mess eventually. Even if my brain explodes at trying to comprehend sub sub sub subclades. Sometimes I think less precision would be more helpful.
> > There is no one single thing that says the
> > came from somewhere else or where that
> > was. All that can really be said is that they
> > a non-Semitic people.
> This certainly seems to be the state of the
> matter. It seems the case could be made for a
> northern or southern origin on equal merits.
> > I think so, too. I'd bet that the Epic of
> > Gilgamesh is not the oldest source for the Epic
> > Gilgamesh or the flood or creation stories in
> > Genesis.
> Thorkild Jacobsen dates the Eridu Genesis to
> 1600BC, some say 1800BC, but I have read
> commentary that it comes from an earlier original
> c. 2300BC. Killin me I can't find the original
> source though it is blindly repeated on the net.
> This makes sense though as it supposedly the only
> one found written in Sumerian. Likely it was
> copied and recopied by the Akkadians sometime
> after Sargon took over.
That explains why I could never find it, and believe me I've tried.
> Speaking of blindly repeating things, an unrelated
> rant, but it is stunning to me how many sources
> just copy and paste Wikipedia. Not just internet
> "articles" and the like, but printed books. More
> often than not they don't even source it, it's
> just flat out plagiarism. I have seen several
> things I have written on Wikipedia copy and pasted
> to varying degrees, but a few things I have
> researched lately are just whole pages. Crazy. A
> word to anyone-Wikipedia is not a source.
> It is a source for sources which does not mean
> they do not get the information right and could
> not be quoted, but you better research the sources
> they cite first as it is quite common they do not
> say what Wikipedia says it does and who ever wrote
> it basically just made it up and cited something
> related. Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, a
> phenomenon unto itself, but there is a lotttt of
> BS in there.
> I digress....
No, you're right on point. It's a great reference for preliminary stuff, but take it with a grain of salt when possible.
> > Now this is interesting. I always thought that
> > the Black Sea. (Ditto Jason and the Argonauts,
> > that's another story.) However, the Persian
> > makes a lot more sense geographically. It's
> > closer, and if they retained a memory of when
> > was dry land, it would be revered. Kind of like
> > Ireland's Land Beneath the Wave (Tir Fa Tonn,
> > Mell, etc.). No one grew old and died there.
> This was my thinking too, but the Persian Gulf
> makes a lot of sense as well. I think it is also
> possible this "homeland" may have been farther
> out, somewhere in the Arabian Sea, perhaps off the
> coast of India. Just a thought.
Aha, I knew we'd get to India eventually. Is there any evidence tying the Ubaids and other tribes of Mesopotamia to the proto Indians?