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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They don't know what's under the alluvium in
> Iraq.
> > There could be older strata underneath it that
> > would indicate an earlier date for the Samarra
> > and/or Hassuna moving into the area who merged
> > with (or became) the Ubaid. They were further
> > north, while the Ubaid appear to have settled
> in
> > the south, then kept moving even further south.
> > Which brings us right back to Halaf.
>
> Supposedly the Halaf date to c. 6100-5100BC, the
> Ubaid 6500/6200 (north/south)-3800BC. Around
> 5500-5000BC the Halaf disappear being replaced a
> by the Ubaid. The more I research it the more of a
> mess it is. Many conflicting dates.

They need more finds, simple as that. It IS a huge mess. I give anyone trying to sort it out all the credit in the world. You have the patience of saints.

> > The DNA evidence on this one is tough and
> > convoluted. People were moving, no doubt about
> it.
>
> Oyyy. I want to avoid this as much as I can and
> stick to the archeology, but if the information is
> available this might help to tip the scales to
> either north or south. I only have so many brain
> cells to rub together, so diggin through that
> rat's nest is not something I look forward to.

LOL I know. But I do believe that genetics, linguistics archaeology together can untangle this mess eventually. Even if my brain explodes at trying to comprehend sub sub sub subclades. Sometimes I think less precision would be more helpful.


>
> > There is no one single thing that says the
> Ubaid
> > came from somewhere else or where that
> somewhere
> > was. All that can really be said is that they
> were
> > a non-Semitic people.
>
> This certainly seems to be the state of the
> matter. It seems the case could be made for a
> northern or southern origin on equal merits.
>
> > I think so, too. I'd bet that the Epic of
> > Gilgamesh is not the oldest source for the Epic
> of
> > Gilgamesh or the flood or creation stories in
> > Genesis.
>
> Thorkild Jacobsen dates the Eridu Genesis to
> 1600BC, some say 1800BC, but I have read
> commentary that it comes from an earlier original
> c. 2300BC. Killin me I can't find the original
> source though it is blindly repeated on the net.
> This makes sense though as it supposedly the only
> one found written in Sumerian. Likely it was
> copied and recopied by the Akkadians sometime
> after Sargon took over.

That explains why I could never find it, and believe me I've tried.

> Speaking of blindly repeating things, an unrelated
> rant, but it is stunning to me how many sources
> just copy and paste Wikipedia. Not just internet
> "articles" and the like, but printed books. More
> often than not they don't even source it, it's
> just flat out plagiarism. I have seen several
> things I have written on Wikipedia copy and pasted
> to varying degrees, but a few things I have
> researched lately are just whole pages. Crazy. A
> word to anyone-Wikipedia is not a source.
> It is a source for sources which does not mean
> they do not get the information right and could
> not be quoted, but you better research the sources
> they cite first as it is quite common they do not
> say what Wikipedia says it does and who ever wrote
> it basically just made it up and cited something
> related. Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, a
> phenomenon unto itself, but there is a lotttt of
> BS in there.
>
> I digress....

No, you're right on point. It's a great reference for preliminary stuff, but take it with a grain of salt when possible.

> > Now this is interesting. I always thought that
> was
> > the Black Sea. (Ditto Jason and the Argonauts,
> but
> > that's another story.) However, the Persian
> Gulf
> > makes a lot more sense geographically. It's
> > closer, and if they retained a memory of when
> it
> > was dry land, it would be revered. Kind of like
> > Ireland's Land Beneath the Wave (Tir Fa Tonn,
> Mag
> > Mell, etc.). No one grew old and died there.

> This was my thinking too, but the Persian Gulf
> makes a lot of sense as well. I think it is also
> possible this "homeland" may have been farther
> out, somewhere in the Arabian Sea, perhaps off the
> coast of India. Just a thought.

Aha, I knew we'd get to India eventually. Is there any evidence tying the Ubaids and other tribes of Mesopotamia to the proto Indians?

1984 was a warning, not a how-to guide.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 2326 Thanos5150 10-Sep-17 16:31
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 448 Reagent 11-Sep-17 01:45
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 413 Thanos5150 11-Sep-17 16:23
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 407 Reagent 11-Sep-17 22:58
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 293 dong 11-Sep-17 19:00
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 358 Vanya 12-Sep-17 08:42
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 399 Thanos5150 13-Sep-17 15:55
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 351 Vanya 15-Sep-17 19:07
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 468 Thanos5150 16-Sep-17 00:48
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 250 Aine 25-Sep-17 17:36
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 261 Thanos5150 25-Sep-17 21:03
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 209 Aine 26-Sep-17 17:19
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 265 Aine 26-Sep-17 17:30
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 262 Vanya 27-Sep-17 10:32
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 238 Thanos5150 27-Sep-17 17:54
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 239 Vanya 03-Oct-17 12:42
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 327 Thanos5150 03-Oct-17 23:16
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 292 Vanya 04-Oct-17 06:37
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 272 Origyptian 04-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 283 Vanya 04-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 243 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 03:50
Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 289 Vanya 07-Oct-17 09:14
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 236 Origyptian 07-Oct-17 14:07
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 243 Vanya 07-Oct-17 15:57
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 258 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 17:05
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 236 Vanya 08-Oct-17 08:06
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 207 Aine 09-Oct-17 00:55
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 223 Vanya 09-Oct-17 06:08
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 157 Aine 11-Oct-17 12:57
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 189 Vanya 11-Oct-17 14:17
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 127 Aine 11-Oct-17 15:03
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 148 Thanos5150 11-Oct-17 15:20
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 171 Thanos5150 11-Oct-17 15:40
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 326 Vanya 11-Oct-17 15:49
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 200 Eddie Larry 07-Oct-17 14:06
Re: Question about UBAID - from where they come from ? 223 Vanya 11-Oct-17 08:41
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 185 Aine 05-Oct-17 12:29
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 200 Aine 04-Oct-17 19:12
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 259 Thanos5150 05-Oct-17 02:57
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 227 Aine 05-Oct-17 12:58
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 247 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 00:12
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 255 MDaines 06-Oct-17 11:29
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 238 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 176 MDaines 06-Oct-17 16:28
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 207 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 22:50
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 224 Origyptian 06-Oct-17 17:14
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 260 MDaines 06-Oct-17 18:01
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 198 Origyptian 06-Oct-17 21:06
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 257 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 00:38
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 234 MDaines 07-Oct-17 08:48
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 244 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 17:07
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 272 Aine 09-Oct-17 01:08
Re: About Wikipedia 377 Vanya 09-Oct-17 06:45
Re: About Wikipedia 159 Aine 11-Oct-17 12:58
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 210 Thanos5150 10-Oct-17 01:26
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 212 Eddie Larry 10-Oct-17 01:47
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 147 Aine 11-Oct-17 13:00
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 136 Eddie Larry 11-Oct-17 15:27
Re: Black Sea - Floods - waters mixing and sea levels during millennia 294 Vanya 26-Sep-17 08:17


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