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Aine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They don't know what's under the alluvium in Iraq.
> There could be older strata underneath it that
> would indicate an earlier date for the Samarra
> and/or Hassuna moving into the area who merged
> with (or became) the Ubaid. They were further
> north, while the Ubaid appear to have settled in
> the south, then kept moving even further south.
> Which brings us right back to Halaf.

Supposedly the Halaf date to c. 6100-5100BC, the Ubaid 6500/6200 (north/south)-3800BC. Around 5500-5000BC the Halaf disappear being replaced a by the Ubaid. The more I research it the more of a mess it is. Many conflicting dates.

> The DNA evidence on this one is tough and
> convoluted. People were moving, no doubt about it.

Oyyy. I want to avoid this as much as I can and stick to the archeology, but if the information is available this might help to tip the scales to either north or south. I only have so many brain cells to rub together, so diggin through that rat's nest is not something I look forward to.

> There is no one single thing that says the Ubaid
> came from somewhere else or where that somewhere
> was. All that can really be said is that they were
> a non-Semitic people.

This certainly seems to be the state of the matter. It seems the case could be made for a northern or southern origin on equal merits.

> I think so, too. I'd bet that the Epic of
> Gilgamesh is not the oldest source for the Epic of
> Gilgamesh or the flood or creation stories in
> Genesis.

Thorkild Jacobsen dates the Eridu Genesis to 1600BC, some say 1800BC, but I have read commentary that it comes from an earlier original c. 2300BC. Killin me I can't find the original source though it is blindly repeated on the net. This makes sense though as it supposedly the only one found written in Sumerian. Likely it was copied and recopied by the Akkadians sometime after Sargon took over.

Speaking of blindly repeating things, an unrelated rant, but it is stunning to me how many sources just copy and paste Wikipedia. Not just internet "articles" and the like, but printed books. More often than not they don't even source it, it's just flat out plagiarism. I have seen several things I have written on Wikipedia copy and pasted to varying degrees, but a few things I have researched lately are just whole pages. Crazy. A word to anyone-Wikipedia is not a source. It is a source for sources which does not mean they do not get the information right and could not be quoted, but you better research the sources they cite first as it is quite common they do not say what Wikipedia says it does and who ever wrote it basically just made it up and cited something related. Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, a phenomenon unto itself, but there is a lotttt of BS in there.

I digress....

> Now this is interesting. I always thought that was
> the Black Sea. (Ditto Jason and the Argonauts, but
> that's another story.) However, the Persian Gulf
> makes a lot more sense geographically. It's
> closer, and if they retained a memory of when it
> was dry land, it would be revered. Kind of like
> Ireland's Land Beneath the Wave (Tir Fa Tonn, Mag
> Mell, etc.). No one grew old and died there.

This was my thinking too, but the Persian Gulf makes a lot of sense as well. I think it is also possible this "homeland" may have been farther out, somewhere in the Arabian Sea, perhaps off the coast of India. Just a thought.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 2198 Thanos5150 10-Sep-17 16:31
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 418 Reagent 11-Sep-17 01:45
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 388 Thanos5150 11-Sep-17 16:23
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 376 Reagent 11-Sep-17 22:58
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 271 dong 11-Sep-17 19:00
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 319 Vanya 12-Sep-17 08:42
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 351 Thanos5150 13-Sep-17 15:55
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 316 Vanya 15-Sep-17 19:07
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 425 Thanos5150 16-Sep-17 00:48
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 232 Aine 25-Sep-17 17:36
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 241 Thanos5150 25-Sep-17 21:03
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 189 Aine 26-Sep-17 17:19
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 238 Aine 26-Sep-17 17:30
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 231 Vanya 27-Sep-17 10:32
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 217 Thanos5150 27-Sep-17 17:54
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 211 Vanya 03-Oct-17 12:42
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 284 Thanos5150 03-Oct-17 23:16
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 255 Vanya 04-Oct-17 06:37
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 250 Origyptian 04-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 249 Vanya 04-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 220 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 03:50
Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 257 Vanya 07-Oct-17 09:14
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 214 Origyptian 07-Oct-17 14:07
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 216 Vanya 07-Oct-17 15:57
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 231 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 17:05
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 211 Vanya 08-Oct-17 08:06
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 187 Aine 09-Oct-17 00:55
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 196 Vanya 09-Oct-17 06:08
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 136 Aine 11-Oct-17 12:57
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 162 Vanya 11-Oct-17 14:17
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 114 Aine 11-Oct-17 15:03
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 123 Thanos5150 11-Oct-17 15:20
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 152 Thanos5150 11-Oct-17 15:40
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 287 Vanya 11-Oct-17 15:49
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 177 Eddie Larry 07-Oct-17 14:06
Re: Question about UBAID - from where they come from ? 193 Vanya 11-Oct-17 08:41
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 165 Aine 05-Oct-17 12:29
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 182 Aine 04-Oct-17 19:12
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 236 Thanos5150 05-Oct-17 02:57
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 208 Aine 05-Oct-17 12:58
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 214 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 00:12
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 229 MDaines 06-Oct-17 11:29
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 217 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 162 MDaines 06-Oct-17 16:28
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 191 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 22:50
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 205 Origyptian 06-Oct-17 17:14
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 234 MDaines 06-Oct-17 18:01
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 182 Origyptian 06-Oct-17 21:06
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 236 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 00:38
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 215 MDaines 07-Oct-17 08:48
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 219 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 17:07
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 248 Aine 09-Oct-17 01:08
Re: About Wikipedia 320 Vanya 09-Oct-17 06:45
Re: About Wikipedia 142 Aine 11-Oct-17 12:58
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 193 Thanos5150 10-Oct-17 01:26
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 191 Eddie Larry 10-Oct-17 01:47
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 131 Aine 11-Oct-17 13:00
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 117 Eddie Larry 11-Oct-17 15:27
Re: Black Sea - Floods - waters mixing and sea levels during millennia 262 Vanya 26-Sep-17 08:17


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