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Aine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They don't know what's under the alluvium in Iraq.
> There could be older strata underneath it that
> would indicate an earlier date for the Samarra
> and/or Hassuna moving into the area who merged
> with (or became) the Ubaid. They were further
> north, while the Ubaid appear to have settled in
> the south, then kept moving even further south.
> Which brings us right back to Halaf.

Supposedly the Halaf date to c. 6100-5100BC, the Ubaid 6500/6200 (north/south)-3800BC. Around 5500-5000BC the Halaf disappear being replaced a by the Ubaid. The more I research it the more of a mess it is. Many conflicting dates.

> The DNA evidence on this one is tough and
> convoluted. People were moving, no doubt about it.

Oyyy. I want to avoid this as much as I can and stick to the archeology, but if the information is available this might help to tip the scales to either north or south. I only have so many brain cells to rub together, so diggin through that rat's nest is not something I look forward to.

> There is no one single thing that says the Ubaid
> came from somewhere else or where that somewhere
> was. All that can really be said is that they were
> a non-Semitic people.

This certainly seems to be the state of the matter. It seems the case could be made for a northern or southern origin on equal merits.

> I think so, too. I'd bet that the Epic of
> Gilgamesh is not the oldest source for the Epic of
> Gilgamesh or the flood or creation stories in
> Genesis.

Thorkild Jacobsen dates the Eridu Genesis to 1600BC, some say 1800BC, but I have read commentary that it comes from an earlier original c. 2300BC. Killin me I can't find the original source though it is blindly repeated on the net. This makes sense though as it supposedly the only one found written in Sumerian. Likely it was copied and recopied by the Akkadians sometime after Sargon took over.

Speaking of blindly repeating things, an unrelated rant, but it is stunning to me how many sources just copy and paste Wikipedia. Not just internet "articles" and the like, but printed books. More often than not they don't even source it, it's just flat out plagiarism. I have seen several things I have written on Wikipedia copy and pasted to varying degrees, but a few things I have researched lately are just whole pages. Crazy. A word to anyone-Wikipedia is not a source. It is a source for sources which does not mean they do not get the information right and could not be quoted, but you better research the sources they cite first as it is quite common they do not say what Wikipedia says it does and who ever wrote it basically just made it up and cited something related. Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, a phenomenon unto itself, but there is a lotttt of BS in there.

I digress....

> Now this is interesting. I always thought that was
> the Black Sea. (Ditto Jason and the Argonauts, but
> that's another story.) However, the Persian Gulf
> makes a lot more sense geographically. It's
> closer, and if they retained a memory of when it
> was dry land, it would be revered. Kind of like
> Ireland's Land Beneath the Wave (Tir Fa Tonn, Mag
> Mell, etc.). No one grew old and died there.

This was my thinking too, but the Persian Gulf makes a lot of sense as well. I think it is also possible this "homeland" may have been farther out, somewhere in the Arabian Sea, perhaps off the coast of India. Just a thought.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 2417 Thanos5150 10-Sep-17 16:31
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 457 Reagent 11-Sep-17 01:45
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 421 Thanos5150 11-Sep-17 16:23
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 430 Reagent 11-Sep-17 22:58
Re: Merv Turkmenistan- One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 310 dong 11-Sep-17 19:00
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 379 Vanya 12-Sep-17 08:42
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 431 Thanos5150 13-Sep-17 15:55
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 374 Vanya 15-Sep-17 19:07
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 489 Thanos5150 16-Sep-17 00:48
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 262 Aine 25-Sep-17 17:36
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 273 Thanos5150 25-Sep-17 21:03
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 220 Aine 26-Sep-17 17:19
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 274 Aine 26-Sep-17 17:30
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 277 Vanya 27-Sep-17 10:32
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 250 Thanos5150 27-Sep-17 17:54
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 256 Vanya 03-Oct-17 12:42
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 344 Thanos5150 03-Oct-17 23:16
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 313 Vanya 04-Oct-17 06:37
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 279 Origyptian 04-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 305 Vanya 04-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 250 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 03:50
Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 303 Vanya 07-Oct-17 09:14
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 243 Origyptian 07-Oct-17 14:07
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 274 Vanya 07-Oct-17 15:57
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 272 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 17:05
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 251 Vanya 08-Oct-17 08:06
Re: Re:Ubaid and mixing of people and cultures alla round the world 215 Aine 09-Oct-17 00:55
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 244 Vanya 09-Oct-17 06:08
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 167 Aine 11-Oct-17 12:57
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 210 Vanya 11-Oct-17 14:17
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 135 Aine 11-Oct-17 15:03
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 158 Thanos5150 11-Oct-17 15:20
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 183 Thanos5150 11-Oct-17 15:40
Re: Re:mixing of people and cultures all round the world 354 Vanya 11-Oct-17 15:49
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 208 Eddie Larry 07-Oct-17 14:06
Re: Question about UBAID - from where they come from ? 251 Vanya 11-Oct-17 08:41
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 193 Aine 05-Oct-17 12:29
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 212 Aine 04-Oct-17 19:12
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 269 Thanos5150 05-Oct-17 02:57
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 234 Aine 05-Oct-17 12:58
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 258 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 00:12
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 266 MDaines 06-Oct-17 11:29
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 246 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 183 MDaines 06-Oct-17 16:28
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 224 Thanos5150 06-Oct-17 22:50
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 231 Origyptian 06-Oct-17 17:14
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 265 MDaines 06-Oct-17 18:01
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 205 Origyptian 06-Oct-17 21:06
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 278 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 00:38
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 242 MDaines 07-Oct-17 08:48
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 250 Thanos5150 07-Oct-17 17:07
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 283 Aine 09-Oct-17 01:08
Re: About Wikipedia 413 Vanya 09-Oct-17 06:45
Re: About Wikipedia 167 Aine 11-Oct-17 12:58
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 219 Thanos5150 10-Oct-17 01:26
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 219 Eddie Larry 10-Oct-17 01:47
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 159 Aine 11-Oct-17 13:00
Re: Adji Kui- Turkmenistan One of the Greatest Ancient Cities on Earth 144 Eddie Larry 11-Oct-17 15:27
Re: Black Sea - Floods - waters mixing and sea levels during millennia 311 Vanya 26-Sep-17 08:17


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