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Audrey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand why you say this. Try to understand
> why I say - IF the cartouches in the chambers are
> forgeries, then it cannot be said that G1 was
> built at the time you give.

Yes, if all the cartouches were fakes then this would give proponents a leg to stand on. This is one of the conditions I give in my list. Granted there are other "non-cartouche" lines of hieroglyphs which are period specific, but if all the cartouches were fakes I do not think they would have any credibility. If this interests you I suggest you read Here. Scroll down to fig18.

And I did not say the whole of G1, just from the RC and up. I don't remember where, long ago, but someone I read proposed G1 was only completed up to the KC and was used as an observatory, like others have proposed for Abu Roash or Zawyet El Aryan, and at some point the AE came along and finished it to a pyramid.

> I agree with you regarding "all the cartouches"
> but not with "the rest". Some of those markings
> are extremely different from the cartouches, in
> style and execution.

I would be interested to see you explore this which would also include the glyphs found in the "air shaft".

> This is a double edged sword. No one, alt or
> ortho, has been able to explain construction. I'm
> not sure why it's on your list, what does it have
> to do with the markings in the chambers?

We have to explain if authentic then how did they get there. There is no known access point to have done it after the fact therefore if not then it could have only happened during construction of at least that section and above.

> That wouldn't really be necessary. Are you
> speaking of the cartouche in general, or the Khufu
> cartouche?

The cartouche in general. This is the ultimate point I have tried to make. Khufu or whatever else it says inside is irrelevant as to when it was built as it is dated by the cartouche in general.

> I don't follow you on this one. Can you clarify?

If the cartouches were not put there during construction then they must have been put there after the fact. Which leaves the question how did they get in there to do this?

> Well it will probably never be dead.

Ain't that the truth.

> But now can you tell me why no one is
> understanding my questions?
> My questions are about identifying a person, the
> builder of G1.

I understand what you are trying to say. I just don't think it matters to the grand picture, but I've always thought it interesting.

> A thought experiment : forget about Vyse and his
> Khufu cartouche in Campbells. Pretend it doesn't
> exist.
> In 1837 the cartouche of the builder of G1 was
> known, obviously because Vyse wrote it in his
> journal. At some point before 1837, it was
> determined which cartouche belonged to the builder
> of G1.

A good question.

> Of all the cartouches on the Giza plateau, how did
> they know WHICH one belonged to the builder of G1?
> How did they know this in 1835 before Vyse
> arrived? If he had never found the chamber, would
> they have gone on with the belief that
> chick+viper+chick+circle was the name of the
> builder or the pharaoh of G1?

Explorers before Vyse, like Greaves, had read the works of the Greeks and would have known the Hellinized names associated with the Giza pharaohs. At what point those names became paired with the hieroglyphs found at Giza I don't know.

> Seriously Thanos, am I wording this badly?

Not at all. I get it and find it interesting. Where some people's brains shut off is equating this uncertainty to a predynastic origin of the builders which at this point in your search is unwarranted. If you want better traction on this I suggest keeping the two separated and when you find the answers you need then you can apply them to your ideas.

The oldest association I know relating "Suphis" (Cheops) with "Khufu" is from 1834 (1832?), I monumenti dell'Egitto e della Nubia, which Scott notes in his latest book. The question is how did Rosellini come to this conclusion?

> Isn't it true that first came the identification
> of the cartouche? Someone said THIS>>> look
> at THIS (pointing), it is the name of the pharaoh
> who built G1. How did they know THIS was it?

A good question. The rub, however, is that regardless of how this came to be, in the end it has still proven true as this same cartouche is found in relative abundance in the tombs of the Western (G1) Cemetery and most recently the Wadi al-Jarf papyri which at the very least associate both chick/circle guy and jug/ram guy with Giza. Not to mention the Giza grouping of cartouches are also found in the same grouping of later king lists. Before Vyse it was believed the cartouche enclosed the name of the king therefore whenever cartouches were found, regardless of who it was, it was understood it was the name of a king. If early explorers had entered the tombs of the Western Cemetery they would have seen this cartouche (or something nearly identical to it) many times in associative proximity to G1. They would have also seen it along with the jug/ram and serekh, as noted prior to Vyse, at Wadi Maghareh.


Which both chick/circle and jug/ram are found in G1.

What is curious to me, considering what you have said, is if Vyse forged the chick/circle, what would be the point of forging the jug/ram? This only confuses the issue for no apparent reason. But if so, then how did he know they belonged together not to mention the jug/ram is poorly represented at Giza if at all as I can;t think of any off the top of my head. I have to say, to accept the Khufu forgery, for sake of argument, I think it only makes sense if Vyse entered the RC and saw the jug/ram all over the place and did not like what he saw as he thought it needed to be the chick/circle to conform to what he saw in the tombs outside. At the time, directly following Vyse's discovery, it was not known for sure these represented the same person and was thought they may refer to different kings altogether which only makes Vyse's "forgery" even more unlikely if the goal was to conclusively "prove" Khufu was the builder as if by sheer numbers of cartouches it would appear the jug/ram guy was the dominant pharoah, ergo, the builder.

Anyhoo, don't get discouraged. Hopefully this helps and gives you something to think about.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12-Apr-17 01:02 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Phyles in the chambers 3731 Audrey 09-Apr-17 03:10
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 569 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 03:37
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 600 molder 09-Apr-17 03:51
monster of a paradigm 602 cladking 09-Apr-17 03:51
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 627 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 06:09
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 692 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 12:03
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 431 cladking 09-Apr-17 13:54
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 522 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 14:34
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 491 cladking 09-Apr-17 15:17
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 473 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 15:33
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 397 Hanslune 09-Apr-17 21:43
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 493 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 15:02
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 551 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 15:32
Re: The Phyles in the cham 453 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 16:24
Re: The Phyles in the cham 494 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 16:49
Nix the Spoon 499 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:55
Re: The Phyles in the cham 428 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:54
Re: The Phyles in the cham 441 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 20:14
Re: The Phyles in the cham 494 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: The Phyles in the cham 454 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 21:36
Re: The Phyles in the cham 391 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:22
Re: The Phyles in the cham 465 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:19
Re: The Phyles in the cham 438 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:59
Re: The Phyles in the cham 413 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 19:30
Re: The Phyles in the cham 442 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:39
Hint 477 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 19:31
Re: Hint 565 Audrey 09-Apr-17 22:04
Re: Hint 413 Merrell 09-Apr-17 22:13
Re: Hint 548 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 22:19
Re: Hint 441 Merrell 10-Apr-17 08:12
Re: Hint 454 Audrey 11-Apr-17 01:01
Re: Hint 412 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 01:57
Re: Hint 427 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 23:00
Re: Hint 414 Audrey 11-Apr-17 01:10
Re: Hint 452 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 01:46
Re: Hint 393 Audrey 11-Apr-17 02:01
Re: Hint 446 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 02:25
Re: Hint 501 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:31
Re: Hint 464 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:27
Re: Hint 411 Martin Stower 10-Apr-17 18:35
Re: Hint 399 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:39
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 504 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 15:46
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 464 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 16:03
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 424 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:22
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 484 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:30
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 443 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 16:40
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 403 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:48
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 435 sfbey 10-Apr-17 14:29
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 503 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:40
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 387 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:13
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 422 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:08
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 444 Martin Stower 10-Apr-17 18:27
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 363 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:12
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 507 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 21:28
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 422 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:09
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 567 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 20:09
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 425 Martin Stower 10-Apr-17 20:41
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 430 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 21:05
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 434 sfbey 10-Apr-17 21:20
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 417 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 21:43
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 432 Corpuscles 10-Apr-17 21:39
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 551 Martin Stower 10-Apr-17 21:46
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 404 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 21:52
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 559 Martin Stower 10-Apr-17 22:02
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 458 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 22:15
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 488 Martin Stower 10-Apr-17 22:57
Now the screaming will start 367 Warwick 11-Apr-17 16:45
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 530 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 01:14
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 368 Warwick 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 394 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 413 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:02
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 456 sfbey 12-Apr-17 18:29
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 435 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 18:53
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 319 Warwick 12-Apr-17 19:04
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 449 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 19:34
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 368 Warwick 13-Apr-17 16:11
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 436 Origyptian 13-Apr-17 16:28
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 399 sfbey 12-Apr-17 19:38
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 491 R Avry Wilson 13-Apr-17 01:13
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 449 Origyptian 13-Apr-17 02:46
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 343 Warwick 13-Apr-17 16:18
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 479 Origyptian 13-Apr-17 16:36
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 389 Warwick 13-Apr-17 16:53
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 543 Martin Stower 13-Apr-17 10:41
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 345 Warwick 12-Apr-17 19:03
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 487 sfbey 12-Apr-17 19:25
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 393 Warwick 13-Apr-17 16:07
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 415 Audrey 11-Apr-17 02:16
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 407 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 02:37
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 395 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 02:41
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 409 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 03:01
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 484 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 08:58
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 429 Warwick 11-Apr-17 16:55
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 443 Audrey 13-Apr-17 04:07
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 357 Warwick 13-Apr-17 16:32
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 448 Origyptian 13-Apr-17 17:20
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 429 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:24
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 362 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 17:15
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 348 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:24
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 475 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 17:16
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 460 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 17:22
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 434 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:37
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 457 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 17:50
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 418 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:02
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 468 Thunderbird 09-Apr-17 21:34
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 413 Martin Stower 09-Apr-17 21:44
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 467 Audrey 11-Apr-17 01:43
Re: To big to fail : ) 550 Thunderbird 11-Apr-17 04:35
Re: To big to fail : ) 371 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 12:47
Re: To big to fail : ) 449 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 13:42
Re: To big to fail : ) 406 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 13:51
Re: To big to fail : ) 462 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 14:10
Re: To big to fail : ) 495 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:49
Re: To big to fail : ) 468 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 16:06
Re: To big to fail : ) 419 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:32
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 544 Audrey 09-Apr-17 23:37
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 438 cladking 10-Apr-17 00:10
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 443 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 01:09
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 433 Audrey 11-Apr-17 00:50
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 588 Thanos5150 11-Apr-17 03:16
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 570 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 10:23
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 628 Thanos5150 11-Apr-17 16:06
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 431 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 20:13
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 485 Thanos5150 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: Egyptians can move mountains 499 Thunderbird 11-Apr-17 19:05
Re: Egyptians can move mountains 488 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:30
FWIW 470 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:46
Re: FWIW 443 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 21:02
Nothing up my sleeve... 443 cladking 11-Apr-17 21:09
Mumblejumbled numbers 459 Warwick 12-Apr-17 16:51
Re: Mumblejumbled numbers 441 cladking 12-Apr-17 18:16
Re: Mumblejumbled numbers 446 Warwick 12-Apr-17 19:11
Re: FWIW 510 Martin Stower 11-Apr-17 22:26
Re: Egyptians can move mountains 496 Thunderbird 11-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Egyptians can move mountains 393 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:17
Re: Egyptians can move mountains 462 cladking 11-Apr-17 21:14
Re: Egyptians can move mountains 439 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:05
Re: Egyptians can move mountains 393 cladking 12-Apr-17 18:28
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 517 Corpuscles 10-Apr-17 03:35
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 452 eyeofhorus33 10-Apr-17 14:06
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 446 Merrell 10-Apr-17 14:58
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 427 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:48
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 550 Audrey 11-Apr-17 01:54
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 441 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:07
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 423 Audrey 11-Apr-17 01:29
Re: The Phyles in the chambers 413 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 02:25
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 586 Corpuscles 12-Apr-17 00:38
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 594 Martin Stower 12-Apr-17 10:20
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 371 Thanos5150 12-Apr-17 16:51
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 326 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:12
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 468 Thanos5150 12-Apr-17 20:15
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 400 Corpuscles 12-Apr-17 22:16
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 408 Martin Stower 12-Apr-17 23:04
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 632 Audrey 13-Apr-17 03:54
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 472 Corpuscles 13-Apr-17 10:03
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 457 Audrey 14-Apr-17 00:59
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 468 Corpuscles 14-Apr-17 23:20
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 568 Martin Stower 13-Apr-17 12:12
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 371 cladking 13-Apr-17 13:33
Re: Audrey's thought experiment 512 Martin Stower 13-Apr-17 13:48
Your Assumptions Are Showing... 415 cladking 13-Apr-17 17:00
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 423 Martin Stower 13-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 413 cladking 13-Apr-17 19:45
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 389 Warwick 13-Apr-17 20:08
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 368 Origyptian 13-Apr-17 20:24
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 384 Martin Stower 13-Apr-17 20:46
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 440 cladking 13-Apr-17 20:59
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 497 R Avry Wilson 13-Apr-17 21:14
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 474 cladking 13-Apr-17 21:31
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 448 Origyptian 13-Apr-17 22:00
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 445 R Avry Wilson 13-Apr-17 21:10
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 334 cladking 13-Apr-17 21:43
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 421 Origyptian 13-Apr-17 21:58
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 503 R Avry Wilson 13-Apr-17 22:17
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 396 cladking 13-Apr-17 22:32
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 380 Origyptian 13-Apr-17 23:04
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 388 Martin Stower 13-Apr-17 23:35
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 363 Corpuscles 13-Apr-17 23:52
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 401 Martin Stower 14-Apr-17 00:38
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 452 cladking 14-Apr-17 00:52
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 345 Warwick 17-Apr-17 16:18
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 412 cladking 17-Apr-17 19:23
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 349 cladking 17-Apr-17 19:30
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 479 Tommi 18-Apr-17 17:45
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 370 cladking 18-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 407 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 19:30
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 357 Warwick 17-Apr-17 21:43
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 505 R Avry Wilson 14-Apr-17 01:16
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 432 Audrey 14-Apr-17 01:37
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 436 R Avry Wilson 14-Apr-17 01:54
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 398 Audrey 14-Apr-17 02:15
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 424 cladking 14-Apr-17 02:27
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 425 R Avry Wilson 14-Apr-17 03:32
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 397 Audrey 14-Apr-17 04:12
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 489 R Avry Wilson 14-Apr-17 07:22
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 447 Martin Stower 14-Apr-17 11:08
Devil's Advocate: 634 WonderWho 14-Apr-17 11:52
Re: Devil's Advocate: 403 M. J. Thomas 14-Apr-17 18:59
Re: Devil's Advocate: 387 Martin Stower 15-Apr-17 22:54
re names 393 Warwick 17-Apr-17 16:34
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 429 cladking 14-Apr-17 13:43
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 390 Martin Stower 14-Apr-17 10:17
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 439 cladking 14-Apr-17 15:52
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 416 Martin Stower 14-Apr-17 20:57
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 314 Warwick 17-Apr-17 16:39
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 352 Warwick 17-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 409 cladking 17-Apr-17 19:35
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 275 cladking 14-Apr-17 02:20
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 361 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 358 cladking 14-Apr-17 17:33
Philip, the time waster 536 R Avry Wilson 15-Apr-17 00:42
Re: Philip, the time waster 437 cladking 15-Apr-17 01:38
Re: Philip, the time waster 436 Origyptian 15-Apr-17 21:31
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 432 Thanos5150 14-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 381 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 20:47
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 486 Martin Stower 14-Apr-17 22:24
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 351 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 22:36
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 448 Martin Stower 14-Apr-17 23:00
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 567 Thanos5150 15-Apr-17 01:42
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 460 Martin Stower 15-Apr-17 09:47
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 553 Thanos5150 15-Apr-17 17:19
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 556 Origyptian 15-Apr-17 19:58
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 412 Martin Stower 15-Apr-17 20:51
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 662 Thanos5150 16-Apr-17 17:43
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 411 Origyptian 16-Apr-17 18:26
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 384 eyeofhorus33 16-Apr-17 20:24
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 332 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 02:16
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 428 Martin Stower 16-Apr-17 22:41
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 363 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 03:12
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 446 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 01:59
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 339 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 02:19
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 342 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 12:42
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 366 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 13:01
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 388 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 13:43
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 429 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 13:47
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 453 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 14:37
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 351 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 17:40
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 409 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 18:16
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 365 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 16:17
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 407 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 16:30
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 352 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 17:48
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 433 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 18:14
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 357 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 18:29
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 413 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 18:58
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 334 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 19:34
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 284 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 20:48
Ori goes to a classy restaurant! 444 Corpuscles 17-Apr-17 23:12
Re: Ori goes to a classy restaurant! 415 Origyptian 18-Apr-17 03:46
Re: Ori goes to a classy restaurant! 405 Martin Stower 18-Apr-17 11:07
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 402 Thanos5150 18-Apr-17 00:23
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 398 Origyptian 18-Apr-17 04:04
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 356 Martin Stower 18-Apr-17 11:23
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 435 Origyptian 18-Apr-17 13:06
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 416 Martin Stower 18-Apr-17 13:42
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 418 Thanos5150 18-Apr-17 17:30
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 385 Audrey 19-Apr-17 00:44
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 432 Origyptian 19-Apr-17 01:09
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 372 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 01:26
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 441 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 01:13
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 438 Audrey 19-Apr-17 02:07
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 394 Martin Stower 19-Apr-17 11:44
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 443 Warwick 19-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 422 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 00:36
Agrest and his sources 397 Merrell 20-Apr-17 12:18
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 402 Origyptian 19-Apr-17 01:01
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 429 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 02:06
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 470 Audrey 19-Apr-17 02:27
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 427 Origyptian 19-Apr-17 03:30
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 380 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 04:40
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 377 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 06:06
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 424 Origyptian 19-Apr-17 15:45
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 375 Corpuscles 19-Apr-17 10:11
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 505 Morten 19-Apr-17 11:24
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 391 Corpuscles 19-Apr-17 11:38
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 339 cladking 19-Apr-17 15:16
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 415 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 00:59
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 413 Hanslune 20-Apr-17 02:39
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 406 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 08:09
Roman capabilities 381 Warwick 18-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Roman capabilities 361 Origyptian 18-Apr-17 16:04
Re: Roman capabilities 312 Warwick 18-Apr-17 18:04
Re: Roman capabilities 342 Origyptian 18-Apr-17 18:09
ahhhh. an attack. how droll 304 Warwick 18-Apr-17 20:25
Re: ahhhh. an attack. how droll 338 Origyptian 18-Apr-17 21:27
Re: ahhhh. an attack. how droll 208 Warwick 19-Apr-17 13:49
Stuck in a time warp 398 Audrey 18-Apr-17 03:35
Re: Stuck in a time warp 239 Martin Stower 18-Apr-17 10:56
Re: Stuck in a time warp 333 Audrey 19-Apr-17 01:04
Re: Stuck in a time warp 262 Martin Stower 19-Apr-17 09:49
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 323 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 16:00
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 310 Origyptian 17-Apr-17 02:25
Experiment terminated 231 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 12:52
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 350 Jon Ellison 16-Apr-17 21:37
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 396 Merrell 16-Apr-17 22:45
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 514 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 03:59
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 389 Jon Ellison 17-Apr-17 08:07
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 234 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 15:36
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 316 Warwick 17-Apr-17 22:01
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 388 Jon Ellison 18-Apr-17 08:13
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 200 Thanos5150 18-Apr-17 18:10
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 424 Jon Ellison 19-Apr-17 00:41
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 430 sfbey 19-Apr-17 14:30
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 471 Jon Ellison 19-Apr-17 15:18
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 233 cladking 19-Apr-17 15:48
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 417 sfbey 19-Apr-17 15:57
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 516 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 17:22
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 409 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 17:35
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 488 Origyptian 19-Apr-17 22:32
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 297 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 23:15
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 322 Origyptian 19-Apr-17 23:21
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 297 Warwick 20-Apr-17 16:57
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 312 Origyptian 20-Apr-17 17:18
The Pyramids were NOT a secret 314 Warwick 20-Apr-17 17:50
Re: The Pyramids were NOT a secret 328 Origyptian 20-Apr-17 18:27
Re: The Pyramids were NOT a secret 231 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 19:11
Re: The Pyramids were NOT a secret 268 Origyptian 20-Apr-17 19:29
Re: The Pyramids were NOT a secret 351 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 22:15
Re: The Pyramids were NOT a secret 351 Origyptian 21-Apr-17 04:37
Re: The Pyramids were NOT a secret 265 Martin Stower 21-Apr-17 08:26
Flat, Oblique, Isometric, Single Point Linear, Two Point Linear 330 Jon Ellison 21-Apr-17 09:20
Mathematical bases of ancient Egyptian architecture and graphic art 494 sfbey 21-Apr-17 14:19
Re: Flat, Oblique, Isometric, Single Point Linear, Two Point Linear 246 Warwick 21-Apr-17 17:30
Re: Flat, Oblique, Isometric, Single Point Linear, Two Point Linear 271 Origyptian 21-Apr-17 19:37
Re: Flat, Oblique, Isometric, Single Point Linear, Two Point Linear 393 Warwick 22-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Flat, Oblique, Isometric, Single Point Linear, Two Point Linear 280 Origyptian 23-Apr-17 02:06
Re: Flat, Oblique, Isometric, Single Point Linear, Two Point Linear 207 Warwick 23-Apr-17 16:18
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 244 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 18:20
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 280 Origyptian 20-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 213 sfbey 20-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 377 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 19:16
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 208 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 19:31
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 256 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 17:52
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 277 Origyptian 20-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 240 Martin Stower 20-Apr-17 19:34
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 460 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 23:44
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 220 Jon Ellison 19-Apr-17 18:19
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 377 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 19:45
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 356 Jon Ellison 19-Apr-17 21:47
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 317 Thanos5150 19-Apr-17 22:33
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 324 Warwick 20-Apr-17 17:17
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 412 Thanos5150 20-Apr-17 17:57
Principles of Egyptian Art 230 sfbey 20-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 335 Jon Ellison 20-Apr-17 18:53
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 349 Jon Ellison 20-Apr-17 19:28
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 484 Thanos5150 20-Apr-17 20:24
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 303 Thanos5150 20-Apr-17 20:43
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 251 Origyptian 20-Apr-17 21:29
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 292 Thanos5150 20-Apr-17 23:55
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 392 R Avry Wilson 21-Apr-17 01:32
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 403 Audrey 21-Apr-17 03:02
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 292 Warwick 21-Apr-17 06:38
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 221 Origyptian 21-Apr-17 04:56
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 267 Corpuscles 21-Apr-17 06:36
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 256 Corpuscles 21-Apr-17 06:08
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 294 Thanos5150 21-Apr-17 06:44
The willfully blind do not see 286 Warwick 21-Apr-17 07:07
Re: The willfully blind do not see 255 Thanos5150 21-Apr-17 16:27
Re: The willfully blind do not see 313 Warwick 21-Apr-17 17:07
Re: The willfully blind do not see 292 Thanos5150 21-Apr-17 18:12
Re: The willfully blind do not see 244 eyeofhorus33 21-Apr-17 21:15
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 387 Audrey 22-Apr-17 02:29
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 373 Thanos5150 22-Apr-17 05:23
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 295 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 09:13
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 334 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 09:22
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 280 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 10:26
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 294 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 10:46
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 358 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 11:42
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 566 Origyptian 22-Apr-17 14:02
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 272 cladking 22-Apr-17 14:45
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 398 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 15:05
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 372 Origyptian 22-Apr-17 15:17
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 301 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 15:20
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 305 Thanos5150 22-Apr-17 15:46
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 230 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 16:07
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 336 Jon Ellison 22-Apr-17 16:56
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 299 Thanos5150 22-Apr-17 17:33
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 208 R Avry Wilson 22-Apr-17 19:38
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 408 cladking 22-Apr-17 19:46
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 192 cladking 22-Apr-17 19:54
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 216 Audrey 22-Apr-17 20:26
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 235 cladking 22-Apr-17 21:17
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 390 Audrey 22-Apr-17 20:36
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 212 cladking 22-Apr-17 21:21
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 283 Origyptian 22-Apr-17 13:51
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 320 Thanos5150 22-Apr-17 16:45
How this is relevant 310 Warwick 22-Apr-17 16:51
Re: How this is relevant 393 Origyptian 23-Apr-17 02:09
Re: How this is relevant 277 Warwick 23-Apr-17 15:43
Re: The willfully ignorant do not learn 295 Warwick 22-Apr-17 16:00
Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 357 Corpuscles 22-Apr-17 21:39
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 358 Origyptian 23-Apr-17 03:39
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 244 Corpuscles 23-Apr-17 07:19
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 411 Origyptian 23-Apr-17 13:51
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 268 Martin Stower 23-Apr-17 14:38
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 289 Origyptian 23-Apr-17 15:03
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 205 Corpuscles 23-Apr-17 22:14
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 287 Thanos5150 23-Apr-17 15:50
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 308 Origyptian 23-Apr-17 16:18
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 259 Martin Stower 23-Apr-17 12:58
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 218 Warwick 23-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Direct questions to self appointed "alt' spokeswoman 320 Corpuscles 23-Apr-17 21:44
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 335 Corpuscles 21-Apr-17 07:12
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 257 Warwick 21-Apr-17 17:43
Rabbits . . . 361 Martin Stower 21-Apr-17 10:04
Re: Rabbits . . . 366 Merrell 21-Apr-17 12:48
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 269 Warwick 21-Apr-17 18:01
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 379 Jon Ellison 20-Apr-17 20:45
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 400 Audrey 21-Apr-17 01:08
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 205 Jon Ellison 20-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 329 Warwick 19-Apr-17 17:43
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 360 Jon Ellison 19-Apr-17 18:40
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 265 Warwick 20-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 388 Corpuscles 17-Apr-17 00:04
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 426 Thanos5150 17-Apr-17 02:05
Re: Your Assumptions Are Showing... 366 Martin Stower 17-Apr-17 00:05